posted January 07, 2013 08:13 AM            

Not having a relationship doesn't equal "unloved", it just means "not dating". Besides, Saturn square Venus people have to learn to love their self before they are capable of receiving the love of others. May as well gets ta crackin on learning self-love if we want to avoid being horribly offensive to the people who want to love us.

posted January 07, 2013 10:28 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Xiiro:
... Besides, Saturn square Venus people have to learn to love their self before they are capable of receiving the love of others. May as well gets ta crackin on learning self-love if we want to avoid being horribly offensive to the people who want to love us...

---

posted January 07, 2013 02:31 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Xiiro:
Yeah, it blows. I am playing around with the idea that maybe this is a lifetime where I focus on things other than romantic relationships. Maybe I chose this lifetime, because I needed the room to do something great, which a relationship would never allow me to pursue.

Not having a relationship doesn't equal "unloved", it just means "not dating". Besides, Saturn square Venus people have to learn to love their self before they are capable of receiving the love of others. May as well gets ta crackin on learning self-love if we want to avoid being horribly offensive to the people who want to love us.

You are a beautiful and talented woman hannah, and Saturn is only one planet among the many. =)

---

posted January 07, 2013 03:15 PM            

It's me though, it really is and I realize that. T Saturn square my Venus is forcing me to finally own up to my side of it and all the things I do to push people away...

posted January 07, 2013 04:42 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Yin:
I don't think that can ever happen. You learn to deal with Saturn, but he always has the upper hand.

---

I disagree. Humans are not slaves to their astrology, because astrology is a descriptive art, and at our very core we are all infinitely indescribable. Astrology describes the arena, our foes, our weapons, and our armor, but it can't describe the eyes looking out from behind the helmet. Those eyes have free will to focus wherever they please. Some helmets are fashioned in a way where a person is at first unable to see their weapons or defenses. Instead they see only their foe when they enter the arena. Some armor is strong and thick, while others are designed very thin, causing the person to rely on manipulation of their environment as their protector. Some weapons are sharp and hard like a blade which can be swung around threateningly and other weapons require strategy and skill like a whip.

Just because a person enters the area with their foe huffing and puffing before their eyes, does not mean they were intended to die like that. It is a challenge for us build a strategy, look around, acclimate to our weapons and defenses, and take down our foe.... Or run and hide under a chair, or die under our foe's boot, or climb out of the arena and go do something else. The circumstances may be defined, but what we make of those circumstances I believe, is the spiritual point of astrology. We are the universe saying, "Okay, what would I do in this scenario. Okay, what about this one?. Okay, and this..."

Saturn is just a planet and we can learn to master it by listening to it, observing it, and recognizing its habits. I hear people talk about Saturn on this forum like he's an evil, closet dwelling grandpa, who wields a mean punishi'n stick, and wrings his hands in anticipation of whacking each of us over the head. Saturn is just a facet of our personality though, which is OCD about structure (in my Virgo Saturn's case). We are completely capable of paying attention to Saturn when he freaks out, observing the things that trigger him, and channeling that energy into something constructive.

Having a chart is also like babysitting a preschool class. Over here you have little Sun trying to get everyone to pay attention to his production, Mercury playing tag or telephone, Venus is flirting, Luna is playing house, Mars just pushed someone, Jupiter is telling jokes, Saturn is bossing the other kids around, Uranus is doing cartwheels with his shoes on his hands and his mittens on his feet, Neptune is running around giving everyone hugs, and Pluto is looking for someone to play doctor with in the crafts closet.

If you let the bossy kid push Venus around, then Venus is going to hate coming to class. But you are the teacher and it is in your power to take charge, comprehend why Saturn acts out the way he does when he comes to class, and find an approach that channels Saturn's bossy disposition into more constructive tasks. Put him in charge of attendance or something.

posted January 07, 2013 05:24 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by aquaguy91:
venus square pluto
venus square mars
venus square moon
venus quincunx chiron exact

---

Your situation sounds similar to Saturn, except the theme isn't self punishment, it seems to be transforming your fundamental view of Venus (perhaps I am seeing my own Venus quincunx Chiron in your situation). The Saturn square tends to feel like an automatic reaction to Venus's energy. Sort of like your body gagging and retching when it tastes something it doesn't want. You may know it is good for you, but your body refuses it.

I don't know houses and aspects, but from the list you provided, I would wager mending your relationship with Venus has to do with past experiences and your psychological relationship with Venus. Chiron, Pluto, and Moon are all dealt with at home, not in the external world, and Mars may be the guard which protects that pain mechanism from being resolved. That being said, it can be a turn off when one seeks Venus in others and bumps into Mars instead.

Being a fixed Sun, it may be important to really contemplate, that the structures you have set up for defining reality (in this case, regarding Venus) may need reconfiguring. I am a professional (chronic?) dater of Aquarians and of all their beautiful traits, this may be the only one I find frustrating. All my Aquarian ex's have completely, erm creative(?) memories of what happened in our relationship and why the relationship failed. When we were dating everything was great, but years after we broke up, and they are still hurt over experiences that only took place in their head.

One of my ex's is insistent that I was adamant she be anorexic. She also believes I hated her and told everyone about our personal life. I actually thought she was too thin, but never told her that because I thought it was just her body type. I also felt horrible breaking up with her, because I had finally come to terms with being gay. I never hated her, in fact I felt guilty for ending such a great relationship. I tried to reach out to her after we broke up, but she stayed distant (which I couldn't blame her for). Now as an adult she is a friend, but you can tell the wounds still exist, especially for the stuff she insists happened, regardless of how I explain myself.

Another of my ex's believes I cheated on him and when I was done, I left him stranded in another state. The reality was, I caught him cheating, we moved to another state together, I financially supported both of us, he had no job, smoked pot, and accused me of sleeping with my boss everyday, and after trying to make me jealous with someone else, I left him.

posted January 07, 2013 05:35 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Xiiro:
Your situation sounds similar to Saturn, except the theme isn't self punishment, it seems to be transforming your fundamental view of Venus (perhaps I am seeing my own Venus quincunx Chiron in your situation). The Saturn square tends to feel like an automatic reaction to Venus's energy. Sort of like your body gagging and retching when it tastes something it doesn't want. You may know it is good for you, but your body refuses it.

I don't know houses and aspects, but from the list you provided, I would wager mending your relationship with Venus has to do with past experiences and your psychological relationship with Venus. Chiron, Pluto, and Moon are all dealt with at home, not in the external world, and Mars may be the guard which protects that pain mechanism from being resolved. That being said, it can be a turn off when one seeks Venus in others and bumps into Mars instead.

Being a fixed Sun, it may be important to really contemplate, that the structures you have set up for defining reality (in this case, regarding Venus) may need reconfiguring. I am a professional (chronic?) dater of Aquarians and of all their beautiful traits, this may be the only one I find frustrating. All my Aquarian ex's have completely, erm creative(?) memories of what happened in our relationship and why the relationship failed. When we were dating everything was great, but years after we broke up, and they are still hurt over experiences that only took place in their head.

One of my ex's is insistent that I was adamant she be anorexic. She also believes I hated her, told everyone about our personal life, among all sorts of stuff. I actually thought she was too thin, but never told her that because I thought it was just her body type and I felt horrible breaking up with her, because I had finally come to terms with being gay. I never hated her, in fact I felt horrible for ending such a great relationship.

Another of my ex's believes I cheated on him and when I was done, I left him stranded in another state. The reality was, I caught him cheating, we moved to another state together, I financially supported both of us, he had no job, smoked pot, and accused me of sleeping with my boss everyday, and after trying to make me jealous with someone else, I left him.

This is not to say that you are similar, however if there is something common between fixed signs, it is the ability to see things a certain way (which may or may not correlate with the collective world's experience). I hope that isn't offensive, it certainly isn't intended to be. The intention is more to inspire you to look at the deeper psychological working of your Venus situation with an open mind.

---

posted January 07, 2013 05:49 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by aquaguy91:
interesting... but that doesnt exactly sound like me. my problem isnt functioning within a relationship, its getting there in the first place. getting along with women has been a major issue for me. most of them
are very cold and dismissive to me and wont even be
friendly in a polite way. as a result i rarely try
socializing with them because its like whats the point in trying to be nice to someone who is going to b*tchface you.

---

Me - "I would wager mending your relationship with Venus has to do with past experiences and your psychological relationship with Venus."

The relationship to which I was referring, was your psychological relationship to Venus. Without a healthy one of those, relationships with others can be difficult. I think you actually support my point when you say: "my problem isnt functioning within a relationship, its getting there in the first place."

Me - "Chiron, Pluto, and Moon are all dealt with at home, not in the external world, and Mars may be the guard which protects that pain mechanism from being resolved. That being said, it can be a turn off when one seeks Venus in others and bumps into Mars instead."

This sounds like a Mars mechanism to me: "getting along with women has been a major issue for me... as a result i rarely try
socializing with them because its like whats the point in trying to be nice to someone who is going to b*tchface you."

I think the point is that 1. Your Venus is psychologically predisposed to selecting b*tchfaced people, or 2. Not everyone is a b*tchface so your approach is causing them to become defensive (which is a common reaction to Mars).

posted January 07, 2013 06:03 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Xiiro:
Me - "I would wager mending your relationship with Venus has to do with past experiences and your psychological relationship with Venus."

The relationship to which I was referring, was your psychological relationship to Venus. Without a healthy one of those, relationships with others can be difficult. I think you actually support my point when you say: "my problem isnt functioning within a relationship, its getting there in the first place."

Me - "Chiron, Pluto, and Moon are all dealt with at home, not in the external world, and Mars may be the guard which protects that pain mechanism from being resolved. That being said, it can be a turn off when one seeks Venus in others and bumps into Mars instead."

This sounds like a Mars mechanism to me: "getting along with women has been a major issue for me... as a result i rarely try
socializing with them because its like whats the point in trying to be nice to someone who is going to b*tchface you."

I think the point is that 1. Your Venus is psychologically predisposed to selecting b*tchfaced people, or 2. Not everyone is a b*tchface so your approach is causing them to become defensive (which is a common reaction to Mars).

I'm sure there are many other scenarios outside these two, bit I'm not seeing where what you said and what I said particularly differ. The examples of my ex's may have been misleading in indicating you may act that way in a relationship. I was only using those as examples of how fixed signs can be determined on a specific way of thinking.

---

posted January 07, 2013 06:28 PM            

You're, what, 21?

The universe still has plenty of time to send you messages.

posted January 07, 2013 06:33 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by mockingbird:
^ Dude.

You're, what, 21?

The universe still has plenty of time to send you messages.

---

posted January 07, 2013 07:34 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by aquaguy91:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by mockingbird:
[b]^ Dude.

You're, what, 21?

The universe still has plenty of time to send you messages.

---

posted January 07, 2013 07:41 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Xiiro:
I disagree. Humans are not slaves to their astrology, because astrology is a descriptive art, and at our very core we are all infinitely indescribable. Astrology describes the arena, our foes, our weapons, and our armor, but it can't describe the eyes looking out from behind the helmet. Those eyes have free will to focus wherever they please. Some helmets are fashioned in a way where a person is at first unable to see their weapons or defenses. Instead they see only their foe when they enter the arena. Some armor is strong and thick, while others are designed very thin, causing the person to rely on manipulation of their environment as their protector. Some weapons are sharp and hard like a blade which can be swung around threateningly and other weapons require strategy and skill like a whip.

Just because a person enters the area with their foe huffing and puffing before their eyes, does not mean they were intended to die like that. It is a challenge for us build a strategy, look around, acclimate to our weapons and defenses, and take down our foe.... Or run and hide under a chair, or die under our foe's boot, or climb out of the arena and go do something else. The circumstances may be defined, but what we make of those circumstances I believe, is the spiritual point of astrology. We are the universe saying, "Okay, what would I do in this scenario. Okay, what about this one?. Okay, and this..."

Saturn is just a planet and we can learn to master it by listening to it, observing it, and recognizing its habits. I hear people talk about Saturn on this forum like he's an evil, closet dwelling grandpa, who wields a mean punishi'n stick, and wrings his hands in anticipation of whacking each of us over the head. Saturn is just a facet of our personality though, which is OCD about structure (in my Virgo Saturn's case). We are completely capable of paying attention to Saturn when he freaks out, observing the things that trigger him, and channeling that energy into something constructive.

Having a chart is also like babysitting a preschool class. Over here you have little Sun trying to get everyone to pay attention to his production, Mercury playing tag or telephone, Venus is flirting, Luna is playing house, Mars just pushed someone, Jupiter is telling jokes, Saturn is bossing the other kids around, Uranus is doing cartwheels with his shoes on his hands and his mittens on his feet, Neptune is running around giving everyone hugs, and Pluto is looking for someone to play doctor with in the crafts closet.

If you let the bossy kid push Venus around, then Venus is going to hate coming to class. But you are the teacher and it is in your power to take charge, comprehend why Saturn acts out the way he does when he comes to class, and find an approach that channels Saturn's bossy disposition into more constructive tasks. Put him in charge of attendance or something.

Don't let your kids walk all over you =)

---

Xiiro, do you blog? Can I read it?

I have Sun and Mercury squaring Saturn and Neptune. (11H and 7H) I don't think I'm the problem at all, but I can't force myself to settle for something that I'm not 100% happy with. I can't even date lightly much as I try to get in that mindset not to take things too seriously. I'm bad at reading people I'm getting to know since I'm directly involved, also bad at confrontation (Mars in Gemini 12H) women of all types and gay men find me attractive but I can't find a straight guy who just "gets" me. Le sigh.

posted January 07, 2013 08:54 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by aquaguy91:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Xiiro:
[b] Your situation sounds similar to Saturn, except the theme isn't self punishment, it seems to be transforming your fundamental view of Venus (perhaps I am seeing my own Venus quincunx Chiron in your situation). The Saturn square tends to feel like an automatic reaction to Venus's energy. Sort of like your body gagging and retching when it tastes something it doesn't want. You may know it is good for you, but your body refuses it.

I don't know houses and aspects, but from the list you provided, I would wager mending your relationship with Venus has to do with past experiences and your psychological relationship with Venus. Chiron, Pluto, and Moon are all dealt with at home, not in the external world, and Mars may be the guard which protects that pain mechanism from being resolved. That being said, it can be a turn off when one seeks Venus in others and bumps into Mars instead.

Being a fixed Sun, it may be important to really contemplate, that the structures you have set up for defining reality (in this case, regarding Venus) may need reconfiguring. I am a professional (chronic?) dater of Aquarians and of all their beautiful traits, this may be the only one I find frustrating. All my Aquarian ex's have completely, erm creative(?) memories of what happened in our relationship and why the relationship failed. When we were dating everything was great, but years after we broke up, and they are still hurt over experiences that only took place in their head.

One of my ex's is insistent that I was adamant she be anorexic. She also believes I hated her, told everyone about our personal life, among all sorts of stuff. I actually thought she was too thin, but never told her that because I thought it was just her body type and I felt horrible breaking up with her, because I had finally come to terms with being gay. I never hated her, in fact I felt horrible for ending such a great relationship.

Another of my ex's believes I cheated on him and when I was done, I left him stranded in another state. The reality was, I caught him cheating, we moved to another state together, I financially supported both of us, he had no job, smoked pot, and accused me of sleeping with my boss everyday, and after trying to make me jealous with someone else, I left him.

This is not to say that you are similar, however if there is something common between fixed signs, it is the ability to see things a certain way (which may or may not correlate with the collective world's experience). I hope that isn't offensive, it certainly isn't intended to be. The intention is more to inspire you to look at the deeper psychological working of your Venus situation with an open mind.

---

You are so cute!

------------------
Passion, Lust, Desire. Check out my journal

posted January 07, 2013 09:02 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ami Anne:
You are so cute!

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posted January 07, 2013 09:29 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by aquaguy91:
hmm but i'm not an agressive or hostile person so i dont see how i would be viewed as a martian type person lol. i'm very chill and relaxed generally and somewhat shy... afterward i followed him around the store as he greeted women , all responded in a polite friendly manner. me and that guy were saying and doing the exact same thing, but i got b*tchfaced and he didnt.

---

Your logic makes sense. I think there is more to Mars then overt aggression however. Depending on a person's placements, Mars can come off as a pushy energy which can function unrelated to the more conscious parts of our personality. I'm a very fire/earth/water person for example and I am well known among my close friends as a person who is accepting, easy going, and genuinely caring about people's welfare. My rising is in Aries (trine Neptune) and for the longest time, I had no clue why people occasionally and randomly acted defensive toward me. My intention has never been to offend. In fact, the strong natal Neptune in my chart wants to be as unimposing and courteous as possible. Mars however is my chart ruler and Lord of Geniture.

It was only later that I realized, an energy which I identify as "self respect" and "secure in my experiences" (my Mars in Leo) can translate to others as a naturally offensive energy. That is my unique Mars experience, but the biggest indicator that Mars was involved was people acting defensive or rude around me when I wasn't doing anything to intentionally offend them.

A similar thing happened with me regarding Saturn. I was talking to an ex a while back and he said, "You didn't like me when we started dating". I was floored, because I remember always liking this guy. He then reminded me about how we started dating, and I couldn't blame him for thinking that. When I was young, I protected myself by acting like an unaffected monolith. With Saturn in my 5th I guess I thought (for some weird reason) this was also being flirtatious. In my aware, personal space I was just as warm, kind, and caring as I have always been. Meanwhile I thought something was fundamentally wrong with me because nobody EVER approached me. They treated me like I was untouchable, and that made me feel ugly and unwanted.

Flip over to my ex's external perspective and I appeared to be a person who wasn't interested in relationships with others. I was just doing my thing and he was lucky to have been chosen to come along.

Planets are complex multidimensional forces, and depending on their conditions, can be solid and blatant or invisible and totally energetic. I haven't seen your chart, so I'm not sure what is going on with your Mars. If it is conjunct your Moon for example, it can definitely translate to others energetically.

posted January 07, 2013 09:45 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by hannaramaa:
Xiiro, do you blog? Can I read it?

I have Sun and Mercury squaring Saturn and Neptune. (11H and 7H) I don't think I'm the problem at all, but I can't force myself to settle for something that I'm not 100% happy with. I can't even date lightly much as I try to get in that mindset not to take things too seriously. I'm bad at reading people I'm getting to know since I'm directly involved, also bad at confrontation (Mars in Gemini 12H) women of all types and gay men find me attractive but I can't find a straight guy who just "gets" me. Le sigh.

---

For me, I have always wanted a relationship and never actually enjoyed being on my own. I think it is essential for me to find a way to enjoy myself if I expect others to do the same.

posted January 07, 2013 09:50 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Xiiro:
Your logic makes sense. I think there is more to Mars then overt aggression however. Depending on a person's placements, Mars can come off as a pushy energy which can function unrelated to the more conscious parts of our personality. I'm a very fire/earth/water person for example and I am well known among my close friends as a person who is accepting, easy going, and genuinely caring about people's welfare. My rising is in Aries (trine Neptune) and for the longest time, I had no clue why people occasionally and randomly acted defensive toward me. My intention has never been to offend. In fact, the strong natal Neptune in my chart wants to be as unimposing and courteous as possible. Mars however is my chart ruler and Lord of Geniture.

It was only later that I realized, an energy which I identify as "self respect" and "secure in my experiences" (my Mars in Leo) can translate to others as a naturally offensive energy. That is my unique Mars experience, but the biggest indicator that Mars was involved was people acting defensive or rude around me when I wasn't doing anything to intentionally offend them.

A similar thing happened with me regarding Saturn. I was talking to an ex a while back and he said, "You didn't like me when we started dating". I was floored, because I remember always liking this guy. He then reminded me about how we started dating, and I couldn't blame him for thinking that. When I was young, I protected myself by acting like an unaffected monolith. With Saturn in my 5th I guess I thought (for some weird reason) this was also being flirtatious. In my aware, personal space I was just as warm, kind, and caring as I have always been. Meanwhile I thought something was fundamentally wrong with me because nobody EVER approached me. They treated me like I was untouchable, and that made me feel ugly and unwanted.

Flip over to my ex's external perspective and I appeared to be a person who wasn't interested in relationships with others. I was just doing my thing and he was lucky to have been chosen to come along.

Planets are complex multidimensional forces, and depending on their conditions, can be solid and blatant or invisible and totally energetic. I haven't seen your chart, so I'm not sure what is going on with your Mars. If it is conjunct your Moon for example, it can definitely translate to others energetically.

I agree with the earlier response, at 21 you are just learning about the huge beast we call a personality. Believe me... You still have a Saturn return to experience and the contrast between pre Saturn return and post is night and day. Time heals all wounds, so just be patient and eventually you will find people women who are not rude.

---

posted January 07, 2013 10:01 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Xiiro:

Nope, my ADD can only handle short bursts of writing LOL! I completely identify with your description of your experience. I think Saturn learns best over time. He gets better (and relaxes) with age. For me, I had to come to the conclusion that "refusing to settle" is based on a predisposition that I expect the relationship to last forever ("If I settle for him and he turns out to suck, then I am stuck with suck"). Relationships are fluid, and for me part of healing Saturn has to do with accepting that not all relationships have to be permanent. Maybe approaching dating as an opportunity to get taken out to dinner, can be more acceptable. A friend of mine has similar struggles and she just decided not to date, but that she still wanted to hook up with guys, so she found a guy who was perfect as a booty call and that is as far as it goes.

For me, I have always wanted a relationship and never actually enjoyed being on my own. I think it is essential for me to find a way to enjoy myself if I expect others to do the same.

=)

---

I started realizing I probably enjoy being on my own more than I understood. I don't like having someone to answer to really, and could see a booty call working for awhile. The only problem with that is I'm not experienced in the physical arena, so it's hard to keep someone as a booty call when you're fresh yourself. Another le sigh.

posted January 07, 2013 10:12 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by hannaramaa:
I started realizing I probably enjoy being on my own more than I understood. I don't like having someone to answer to really, and could see a booty call working for awhile. The only problem with that is I'm not experienced in the physical arena, so it's hard to keep someone as a booty call when you're fresh yourself. Another le sigh.

---

You're in luck gurrl, cause the straight guys I know are not horribly picky about the prowess of their hook ups. If you find a steady booty call you can always use them as sexual practice. I actually did that with a guy, except the practice was with companionship, not sex.

We lived together and specifically "didn't date" for a few years, and used the opportunity to feel out how to be in an emotionally beneficial relationship with another person. Lots of cuddling and caring for each other took place, some fights, but a strong desire to support each other. The sexual chemistry just wasn't there, so it was just never part of the "deal". Practicing companionship was something we both definitely needed and I was glad to have the opportunity.

posted January 07, 2013 10:15 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by hannaramaa:
I started realizing I probably enjoy being on my own more than I understood. I don't like having someone to answer to really, and could see a booty call working for awhile. The only problem with that is I'm not experienced in the physical arena, so it's hard to keep someone as a booty call when you're fresh yourself. Another le sigh.

---

posted January 07, 2013 10:16 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by hannaramaa:
I started realizing I probably enjoy being on my own more than I understood. I don't like having someone to answer to really, and could see a booty call working for awhile. The only problem with that is I'm not experienced in the physical arena, so it's hard to keep someone as a booty call when you're fresh yourself. Another le sigh.

---