posted April 04, 2014 12:55 AM            

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Originally posted by FireMoon:

Plus we can't play white savior to the third world all the time, but we can at least take care of the way we treat our own citizens...[/B]

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Well it's getting circular, if you look at domestic issues only, then it goes back to economic factors that I've explained and the fundamental social issues such as health care and schooling etc from it.

posted April 04, 2014 12:58 AM            

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Originally posted by FireMoon:
Haha yeah another thing we agree on, the bs of the DSVM...

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You asked my Moral argument, it is based on Paul and particularly Men suffering twice.

This I've seen..over and over and over again, at least in the physical realm, the after life..not sure

Also not sure if what I've witnessed is specific to just young gay men, or to all young ppl.

posted April 04, 2014 12:59 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Padre35:
I have little Religion myself, I have faith, that is tested, severely tested at times

Color me Human

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It's just nice to see someone who sees the difference between religion and faith, a lot people don't see the divider between these two.

posted April 04, 2014 01:01 AM            

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Originally posted by 23:
Well it's getting circular, if you look at domestic issues only, then it goes back to economic factors that I've explained and the fundamental social issues such as health care and schooling etc from it.

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That's great by why can't gay marriage fit into that? It's not exactly an economic expense...

posted April 04, 2014 01:04 AM            

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Originally posted by FireMoon:
That's great by why can't gay marriage fit into that? It's not exactly an economic expense...

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This is where you are incorrect Firemoon

To have relationships legitimized means..Family Court, Child Support, Divorce, what was once Free..now is plain

It amazes me that those who have seen things crumble somehow think..it won't/can't happen

There is a term for those who trade what they want, for what will happen

posted April 04, 2014 01:04 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by FireMoon:
That's great by why can't gay marriage fit into that? It's not exactly an economic expense...

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posted April 04, 2014 01:05 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Padre35:
You asked my Moral argument, it is based on Paul and particularly Men suffering twice.

This I've seen..over and over and over again, at least in the physical realm, the after life..not sure

Also not sure if what I've witnessed is specific to just young gay men, or to all young ppl.

This is why I'm circumspect

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posted April 04, 2014 01:06 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by FireMoon:
I would agree there's suffering involved, evidenced by the rates of suicide, etc. but surely you must see that has something to do with society and the prejudice young gay ppl have to face? I just see it as yeah being young is hard enough at times, why add to that...?

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Perhaps, however with the DSMV removed, then what?

posted April 04, 2014 01:08 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Padre35:
This is where you are incorrect Firemoon

To have relationships legitimized means..Family Court, Child Support, Divorce, what was once Free..now is plain

It amazes me that those who have seen things crumble somehow think..it won't/can't happen

There is a term for those who trade what they want, for what will happen

Marks

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posted April 04, 2014 01:11 AM            

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Originally posted by 23:
It's getting circular again, because it is not an economic issue it does not garner attention.

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posted April 04, 2014 01:13 AM            

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Originally posted by FireMoon:
Yes but whose expense is that?? Not the state's. People dig their own graves but there are also financial benefits to being legally married so it's all relative...

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We appear to have come to the same conclusions, put it this way, if no trad marriage is now the norm

The consequences..are never spoken of..behind all of the cheering there are Divorce Atty's Family Courts etc who stand to benefit from mainstreaming

posted April 04, 2014 01:24 AM            

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Originally posted by 23:
Firemoon - that's REALITY, it doesn't concern a lot of people. The REALITY is that people also have different opinions too. You've probably read enough of this thread to see that. It's reality, it's time for people on this website to realise that there are different viewpoints, interests, self-interests etc. The quicker you get to this point, the more you'll find your own peace.

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Haha you think I don't realize that? I grew up in a REALITY where I felt like a fish out of water (I'm straight btw, just grew up in a very religious environment) and almost everyone's opinions were different than mine, but the REALITY is that acceptance of homosexual relationships is becoming more and more prevalent whether Christian conservatives approve or not... Maybe accepting that will bring you some peace of your own.

posted April 04, 2014 01:26 AM            

I almost no longer care, my reason for caring is more or less based on I despise the agit prop being used on both sides.

My only point was to try and make ppl see BBG's pov, and the pro non Trad life pov

What I've seen in this life is, slogans are used to coverup things, to rally causes.

Benedictus little ones, The Most High's point is not to cause division..it is to cause thought and most of all caring one for the other

posted April 04, 2014 02:03 AM            

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Originally posted by 23:
I am much more concerned about the children in that photo and I'm going to give them more attention.

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Too bad so many Christians don't agree with you and would rather direct the bulk of their money and efforts in fighting equality, even as it creates suffering (as they do in other ways)...in addition to creating a lot of those problems by banning condoms and birth control as much as possible to regions that desperately need them (and as a result aggravate the starvation and sickness), or even sending Bibles (that many can't even read anyway) instead of more tangible help. Luckily, secular charities like Doctors Without Borders and Save the Children do a lot to help, including (along with Amnesty International) fighting the rapes and social conditions that are aggravated by violent religious forces there.

And btw, plenty of gay people do help with various charities, they just don't crow about doing it "as gay people." Some even do it as Christians. Yes, gay people can be Christian just as some churches can accept gay people, because churches change as they did when they no longer supported slavery or allowed women to speak in the church.

Of course the problem of inequality isn't about wild sexual practices like glory holes or financial benefits, it's about much more fundamental issues as being able to visit loved ones in the hospital or even been told that something is wrong (emergency contacts). One is concerned with life and love while the other is concerned with religious sensibilities, and I hope the former wins over the latter as it did over so many other contentious social issues in the past.

posted April 04, 2014 02:10 AM            

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Originally posted by PixieJane:
Too bad the majority of Christians don't agree with you and would rather direct the bulk of their money and efforts in fighting equality, even as it creates suffering (as they do in other ways)...in addition to creating a lot of those problems by banning condoms and birth control as much as possible to regions that desperately need them, or even sending Bibles (that many can't even read anyway) instead of more tangible help. Luckily, secular charities like Doctors Without Borders and Save the Children do a lot to help, including (along with Amnesty International) fighting the rapes and social conditions that are aggravated by religious forces there.

And btw, plenty of gay people do help with various charities, they just don't crow about doing it "as gay people." Some even do it as Christians. Yes, gay people can be Christian just as some churches can accept gay people, because churches change as they did when they no longer supported slavery or allowed women to speak in the church.

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Equalitah!

Yeah, writing a check and dropping it is a far far different proposition from actually caring about whom the check is dropped for and giving half a damn

Meanwhile..no **** shaming!

The mixture of Bs, Sincerety, Experience, the downright contempt even the most "religious" or "secular" ppl share for others

Diogenes..Diogenes party of one, now seating..

posted April 04, 2014 02:37 AM            

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Originally posted by Padre35:
We appear to have come to the same conclusions, put it this way, if no trad marriage is now the norm

The consequences..are never spoken of..behind all of the cheering there are Divorce Atty's Family Courts etc who stand to benefit from mainstreaming

INOW..just like everyone else..of all of the fates I could imagine..no way would I see that being one that the folks I know would want

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I see that, I see what you mean Padre.... I just think we should all be able to subject ourselves to the sam legal and socially acceptable levels of misery as everyone else, I mean it's only fair right?

Anyway I will need to come back to this thread tomorrow with a fresh mind since I have more opinions of course lol, but just wanted to say yes... we've tried to argue about this but I get where you're coming from as much as you and I both like dramatic reactions lol

posted April 04, 2014 02:48 AM            

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Originally posted by FireMoon:
Pixie is like the Xena warrior princess

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I need to go to bed, too. My thinking is getting surreal (it doesn't help I'm working on a fic of the paranormal and conspiracies)...but just for fun, a Day in the Life of Xena & Gabrielle...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q2X9L8akKgE

posted April 04, 2014 03:54 AM            

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Originally posted by I'm so cappy:
My condolences. My mother seems to think gay men are psychos or something. I suppose she isn't more accepting of lesbians. The funny thing is - she likes my friend and he's gay. She doesn't know that though. I wish I could tell her and see her face...

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Unforunately Cappy, this is one of those situations where the saying "You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink" applies perfectly well. And I have to SMH big time at some of the arguments I have had to read against Gay Relationships in this thread... My goodness. Its one thing to have an opinion on something; To demand that people need to respect you for having an intolerable opinion is just asinine.

"Please tolerate my intolerance."

Yeah, does no one see the irony in that? Hell I am ALL UP for support for Gay Marriage and Gay people shouldn't have to hide their love just because Pappy and Grandma Crusty Pants get all hot and bothered watching a bit of PDA in public.

I also find it quite amusing that Bible Thumpers, Koran Klyptos, etc. always invoke the argument of "its not natural" to debunk gay relationships yet are so quick to point out the supremecy of man and how God gave him power over the "natural" dominion. As sentient beings, the concept of love and lust for us goes far beyond the idea of "gender." And if having the ability to reproduce "entitles" you to look down upon Gay People then does that means you have the same boorish idiotic outlook on couples that choose not to have kids?

The argument over the long standing issue involving the intolerance on interracial relationships has been brought up in this thread and IMO its a perfect comparative example; Seeing how it effects me personally. Me and my wife are a Bi-racial, Inter-religious couple and its something that my and my inlaws accepted and supported openly and without reserve. However, my extended family (both from my Mom and my Dad's side) have made it quite clear that they disapprove of me marrying someone outside of our cultural and religious beliefs. As such, I don't talk to them anymore and they don't talk to me.

posted April 04, 2014 04:13 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by PixieJane:
I need to go to bed, too. My thinking is getting surreal (it doesn't help I'm working on a fic of the paranormal and conspiracies)...but just for fun, a Day in the Life of Xena & Gabrielle...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q2X9L8akKgE

This one makes me laugh, too (I think Gabrielle has been possessed by a shard of Aphrodite or something, but I don't know), not sure I'll leave the link to this or not (try to leave it until tomorrow night anyway):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BywarvPeLi4

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Xena..bwahahaha..Xena

bwaha

Sloppy..if the argument is picked up tmrw?

Is that sloppy seconds?

posted April 04, 2014 05:06 AM            

Where do you even find this stuff (the video)?