posted April 03, 2014 05:14 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Sibyl:
I really don't understand exactly what it is that you object to? What do you mean by the "lifestyle"? Do you think that homosexuality is unnatural? Is it the "gay culture"? Does it go against your religious beliefs? What is it? I'm a little confused.

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posted April 03, 2014 05:15 PM            

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Originally posted by DeepFreeze:
But the older generation has the same freedom. I think they are simply mature enough and secure enough to handle it more maturely instead of "accept me dammit! I'll shove it down your throat until you do!"

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The older generation does not have the same freedom, because older people are generally more ignorant. It's just how it is, when you get older you can't always keep up with the changing times. I'm assuming most old people hang out with old people, so...

posted April 03, 2014 05:16 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Barbiegirl19:
It's my own belief. Why is that wrong to you? Those are all apart of the Old Testament in an old time, written by the wrong people. Everyone knows that. And I've never been persecuted by anyone. Ever.

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posted April 03, 2014 05:18 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Barbiegirl19:
All of it. I don't want to be around it. Don't want it in my home. Spoken about to me. Nothing.

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posted April 03, 2014 05:18 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by aquaguy91:
And so are the gay verses? So if you think we should all forget about the verses that condemn interracial relationships how can you justify being intolerant of gays? You are both in the same boat as far as i'm concerned. By that I mean both groups are out of the norm and subject to intolerance all the time.

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posted April 03, 2014 05:20 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Sibyl:
That makes just about as much sense to me as if I would tell you I refuse to speak to you or see you or know that you exist or that you can possibly exist and that you are completely unnatural because we are different and I do not agree with your lifestyle. Because I don't. I think you're being judgmental. And I really judge judgmental.

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posted April 03, 2014 05:23 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Barbiegirl19:
They are not out of the norm. We've looooooong passed that. What does what a person look racially like have to do with homosexuality? Again it is my belief. You don't have to like it.

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posted April 03, 2014 05:23 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by aquaguy91:
Oh yes they are. Did you know that interracial marriage wasnt legalized in Alabama until the early 2000s

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posted April 03, 2014 05:25 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Barbiegirl19:
I'm not being judgmental. You're the one being judgemental. Criticizing my beliefs. I don't and will not accept it. I tolerate and even had a gay friend but he never disrespected me the way some of you because I didn't agree with his lifestyle and his choice.

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posted April 03, 2014 05:30 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Barbiegirl19:
They are not out of the norm. We've looooooong passed that. What does what a person look racially like have to do with homosexuality? Again it is my belief. You don't have to like it.

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posted April 03, 2014 05:32 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Barbiegirl19:
Do I care? What does that have to do with homosexuality?

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posted April 03, 2014 05:35 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Sibyl:
Yes you are being judgmental. When you say that something is wrong and that you do not accept it, you are judging. So I'm telling you I do not accept your judgmental attitude, and I am judging you because of it. As I would say it is within someone's right to judge an anti-semittist or racist or chauvinistic person, and still not be a generally judgmental person.

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posted April 03, 2014 05:36 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by aquaguy91:
The point is ignorant people were persecuting people because of who they loved... How can you not see the connection?

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posted April 03, 2014 05:42 PM            

Yeah, I know heaps of gay people, my best man is. I really don't care. I know it happens, I know you can't choose who you fall in love with but I'm generally not concerned with gay issues because it doesn't affect me personally and for the gay people I know they seem to not care either.

I don't like either hetero- or homosexual PDA, keep it to yourselves. I often think the entire gay community is hijacked by a radical element that is obsessed with promotion of gay rights. I don't care, it's not something that affects me personally, just like others on here wouldn't care about what happened to the Sorbs in Germany.

It will come around when it comes around, stop pushing it, it pi$ses the rest of us off. If one of my kids are gay, I'll deal with it when it happens.

posted April 03, 2014 05:42 PM            

I don't think people should "have beliefs" about what other people should or should not do. Or if they do, they shouldn't voice them. I do recognize the irony of that statement, but I think the world would be a better place with allot less conflict and much more happiness if people were just more accepting.

I think Aquaguy has a point, in that historically, anything that is outside the norm has been frowned up on and judged because it has been seen as a danger to the cohesion of the group and to the most prevalent norms of values. People judge things they are afraid of (will spread) or which they do not understand.

I think that everyone would be happier if we stopped turning down our noses at the things that others do. Whether it is the slightly obese teen who is ruthlessly judged by her peers, or an interracial couple who is paving the way for a future where it's universally accepted to love someone with a differently shaded skin.

posted April 03, 2014 05:45 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Barbiegirl19:
I'm not being judgmental. You're the one being judgemental. Criticizing my beliefs. I don't and will not accept it. I tolerate and even had a gay friend but he never disrespected me the way some of you because I didn't agree with his lifestyle and his choice.

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This does not match with

quote:

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Originally posted by Barbiegirl19:
All of it. I don't want to be around it. Don't want it in my home. Spoken about to me. Nothing.

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If this is how you feel, how could you possibly be friends with someone gay, unless you simply did not know (and ended it when you did)?

posted April 03, 2014 05:45 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Barbiegirl19:

I do not care. Agree or disagree but don't attack me or other people because we don't agree with you.

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The way you attack gays for not agreeing with them?

posted April 03, 2014 05:47 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by PixieJane:
If this is how you feel, how could you possibly be friends with someone gay, unless you simply did not know (and ended it when you did)?

Luckily, such attitudes will pass, just as they have for left handed people who were once considered "sinister" (and with some Bible verse being used to justify it).

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I worded it wrong. I just don't want it pushed in my face or talked about around me. Who cares if your gay your gay. I don't like that all of us have to accept it and live with it, because that's not how the world works. That's what I've said from the beginning.

posted April 03, 2014 05:49 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Sibyl:
The older generation does not have the same freedom, because older people are generally more ignorant. It's just how it is, when you get older you can't always keep up with the changing times. I'm assuming most old people hang out with old people, so...

This "accept me dammit! I'll shove it down your throat until you do!" applies to allot of young people I think. Not just gay people. Young people are always "revolutionaries".

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That makes sense... About young people.

Otherwise.. (not just to you).

MY thing is this.
People by this time KNOW some people are gay, same as we know many are straight. (I live in Iowa which I think was the second state to legalize gay marriage)
I don't go around announcing my straightness, I don't give out details of my sex life (like a member here thinks is appropriate - as well as people I have known irl)

Just like a member here, possibly in this thread but one for sure who doesn't post much. They don't announce it. I put two and two together. No biggie.
BE it if you are it and let that be that.

For those wondering.... Barbiegirl19 and I one, don't even mention our race even to each other for the most part.
We also keep our display of affection private. No one sees it. That's just how we are, our beliefs/opinions, we hang on to those.
This is just how we feel and it won't change.

posted April 03, 2014 05:49 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by PixieJane:
The way you attack gays for not agreeing with them?

Golden Rule would seem to apply here.

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posted April 03, 2014 06:06 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Sibyl:
Well anyway,

I don't think people should "have beliefs" about what other people should or should not do. Or if they do, they shouldn't voice them. I do recognize the irony of that statement, but I think the world would be a better place with allot less conflict and much more happiness if people were just more accepting.

I think Aquaguy has a point, in that historically, anything that is outside the norm has been frowned up on and judged because it has been seen as a danger to the cohesion of the group and to the most prevalent norms of values. People judge things they are afraid of (will spread) or which they do not understand.

I think that everyone would be happier if we stopped turning down our noses at the things that others do. Whether it is the slightly obese teen who is ruthlessly judged by her peers, or an interracial couple who is paving the way for a future where it's universally accepted to love someone with a differently shaded skin.

I do think it is great that you, Barbie and DeepFreeze, are breaking those norms (they need to be broken). All kudos to you, seriously. It's brave and it's awesome. I'm sure some people are judging you for it, and so it is not the "easiest route", and I'm sorry for that. Plus everyone knows interracial babies are the most beautiful. But I wish you would be a little more accepting of other people who are also different from the majority of society. If you don't wish to invite them into your home (or whatever) that is your choice, but I do wish you wouldn't voice such opinions in a public space such as this where undoubtedly gay people have (and still will) see it.

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I think the same should be applied to those who don't agree. Instead of attacking and pointing fingers. Sexual orientation should be left at home, in the bedroom. If your gay, your gay. That does not mean that people should have it thrown in their faces and to submit to it when they don't wish too.

posted April 03, 2014 06:10 PM            

quote:

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Re: "Can't Even Go to the Park"
by Zinnia — 30 August 2011

Hi, Stacy. I heard about your encounters with gay couples in public places like parks and swimming pools, and I have to say, I find it hard to sympathize with almost any aspect of the life you've made for yourself.

Before I read your post, I thought that perhaps you had been witness to a public sex act or something similarly inappropriate. Instead, what you actually saw were two men rubbing elbows, and a lesbian couple taking their baby to the park. Apparently this was a good enough reason for you to stop taking your seven children outside, because they might see gay people and start asking questions. That was all it took for you to decide that you can hardly leave the house anymore for fear of people "imposing" their "immorality" on you.

You ask us, "is this freedom?" And I ask you: As opposed to what? Does your concept of freedom require that gay people must be excluded from all the places that you and your children might visit? Did you even consider for one moment what you are expecting of them? Just as you want to take your children to the park, so did that lesbian couple with their child. Yet you seem to think their family should be subject to the same exile that you've imposed upon your family. What is it that makes you special here? What gives you any greater claim to full participation in society than that family? Did it not occur to you that other people are just as fully human as you, and they want to be just as free to enjoy their lives? That is what freedom is, and that is what you do not understand.

Imagine individuals as a series of points spaced an equal distance from one another. Their freedoms are a circle of a certain radius that surrounds each of those points. Every circle is the same size. Now expand all of those circles simultaneously until their edges are touching, and no further. Those are the limits of our freedom, and yours. Nobody's freedom is larger or smaller than anyone else's. And nobody's freedom can intrude upon the freedom of others. If it did, those circles would begin to overlap, and just as your freedom would encroach upon someone else's, their freedom would intrude into yours as well. And if your supposed freedom extends so far as to banish people from the public sphere based only on your own personal morality, then everyone else is just as free to do that to you. You and your family would be equally subject to their whims, and that is not something you want. It is not something anyone should want.

Even you shy away from following your indignation all the way to its vile and unavoidable conclusion. But that is what you hint at when you say that you're "supposed to be able to influence what goes on" in your community. There are many things that you can influence, but that is not among them. You live in a world where not everyone operates according to your interpretation of Catholic morality, and they are not required to. When you say that you've been forced to "tolerate immorality", that is exactly right. It is a fact that you are always going to encounter people whose moral outlook does not align with yours. And just as you have the freedom to follow the dictates of your conscience, so do the rest of us. Nobody was rubbing elbows with you. Nobody is in a lesbian relationship with you. And you have every right to sit there at the park and meditate on how awful it is that gay people are allowed outside. But your expectation that they shouldn't be there because of your religious views is no more valid than someone else's expectation that you shouldn't leave the house without a veil. That is not freedom.

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quote:

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I really don't know what particular need this religion fulfills for you, whether it's massive institutional approval and encouragement of your own prejudice, endless cliched narratives into which you can fit any conceivable life experience and act like you're a martyr, an appealing moral simplicity that drains all the complexity of nuance out of your life, or just something to give structure and meaning to your existence because you couldn't figure it out on your own. But understand this: We are not willing to pay the price for your own self-righteousness. If we're making it uncomfortable for you to share your bias, I'm glad to hear it. If we're making it harder for you to teach the next generation to hate us, we're going to keep doing that. And we have no obligation to conceal ourselves just for the sake of accommodating your faith-based bigotry. We're still going to be at the park. Will you?

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posted April 03, 2014 06:17 PM            

quote:

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The family vacation cruise that Janice Langbehn, her partner Lisa Marie Pond and three of their four children set out to take in February 2007 was designed to be a celebration of the lesbian couple's 18 years together.

But when Pond suffered a massive stroke onboard before the ship left port and was rushed to Jackson Memorial Hospital, administrators refused to let Langbehn into the Pond's hospital room. A social worker told them they were in an "anti-gay city and state."

Langbehn filed a federal lawsuit Wednesday charging the hospital with negligence and "anti-gay animus" in refusing to recognize her and the children as Pond's family, even after a power of attorney was faxed to the hospital within an hour of their arrival

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quote:

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"No matter what your definition of family is, this family went through terrible indignities," said Donald Hayden, a Miami lawyer who joined the national advocacy group Lambda Legal in bringing the suit. "The partners here did everything they were supposed to do under law and were still denied visitation rights that should have been allowed."

Jackson officials declined to comment, except to say that the hospital follows state and federal laws on patient privacy that can forbid releasing health information to those outside the patient's immediate family.

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quote:

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Pond, 39, was pronounced dead of a brain aneurysm about 18 hours after being admitted to Jackson's Ryder Trauma Center. Langbehn said she was allowed in to see her partner only for about five minutes, as a priest gave Pond the last rites.

"I never thought almost 20 years of love and family could be disregarded in an instant," said Langbehn, a social worker who lives with her children in Lacey, Wash.

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Btw, note that they WERE NOT CONSIDERED FAMILY. Such is the difference between "civil union" and "marriage" (a non religious ceremony that hets get outside the church all the time, such as with the Justice of the Peace, and btw, there are churches who would marry gays if allowed, not to mention other religions). And some thought they had it bad because they had to sit at the back of the bus. (Not to put down what other minorities faced, and I'm certainly aware this was one of the least indignities put up with, but it gobsmacks me that people can realize just how unjust and bad it was to make people sit at the back like a kid and yet somehow not realize that this--one treated as less than human and love as unreal--is far worse than that.)

posted April 03, 2014 06:42 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Barbiegirl19:
In any religious and moral teachings it's wrong. No one should have to deal with it in the open if they don't want to.

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actually, thats pretty wrong.
certain native american tribes used to celebrate gay people saying they were a totem from the gods.
to this day, certain tribes in remote islands of the world will actually have their warriors jizz on the young warriors face. those are spiritual teachings, no?
just because they arent as big and popular as christianity, doesnt make them invalid.
people HAVE to deal with it. if you dont, its causing problems. there is literally nothing wrong with love. somebody being gay isnt the same as having sex. how are you supposed to attract people if you hide your homosexuality?
ive literally hit on women who were lesbians because i didnt know they were lesbian. they felt like they had to hide it because of people who are too ignorant and scared to deal with truth. the truth is, people are fckin and there aint a whole lot people can do about even if they "disagree" or not.

im also confused as to what the homosexual lifestyle is? they go shopping...eat some dinner...maybe go to a concert here or there...and if they are lucky, maybe they can get away with being themselves. they are literally living the same life as straight people (and straight is loosely defined anyways).

in the "straight community" it seems to be almost worse! you have these homosexual guys who have a family and kids just because we tell them they have to in order to be happy. they wind up cheating on their wives and stuff just because they were stifled in their own homosexuality growing up, by ignorant people who choose not to deal with it, or make it a big deal because it makes them "uncomfortable". sure, lets just exile you because it makes me uncomfortable. makes sense.
in roman times, the spartans? they used to have the 13 year old boys as sex buddies. it was part of growing up and being a "man". the 300 used to have sex with each other, they believed that having that bond would protect each other in battle. now were saying that men cant get married because it makes some people uncomfortable? not OK with their way of life? LOL i laugh at how ridiculous our society is! get over yourselves people!

posted April 03, 2014 06:52 PM            

'Course that's why I linked to that YT...here it is again for convenience sake:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08pK-YQYmEw