posted March 14, 2015 09:41 AM              

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Originally posted by MoonWitch:
He is a Scorpio.
Moon: Sag
Rising: Libra

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posted March 14, 2015 10:23 PM            

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Originally posted by DeepFreeze:
Have you considered that maybe they don't immediately appear as a**holes, but simply confident, assertive, charming, and might be master manipulaters and liars?

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It's exactly like that. They are not always and everywhere simply bad boys. Actually many women are protective and they feel the need to change, fix, save a man in trouble with a good heart. And the danger to get involved with this is exciting, so it makes sense why they fall for that at the first place.

posted March 14, 2015 10:50 PM            

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Originally posted by aquaguy91:

I believe that feminism is toxic to society, but I don't believe it was started with bad intentions. I believe it was started in good faith but the path to hell is paved with good intentions. I once heard someone say, in regards to marriage, "you can't have an organization without a leader. If you don't have a leader everything will fall apart". I think that's why over 50% of marriages fall apart. There's alot of confusion and frustration in relationships between men and women because there's no set leadership. You see women cutting down their husbands and challenging their authority but then the same women expect men to just take charge in other situations. Both men and women are very confused.....[/B]

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I can't believe an Aquarius can be so narrow minded. You make me disbelieve in astrology haha

A woman with emotional,mental balance and a sense of self worth doesn't need any leader to take charge of her life. A man with self confidence and maturity doesn't need to overpower his mate to feel sufficient.
It's that simple. I must give you a good historical example.
Men in ancient Sparta, 2500 years ago used to appreciate strong, proud and opinionated women. Those men in a battlle worthed 10 times more than any other non-spartan.
Spartan women had more priviliges than all the other women in greece and when a queen of theirs was asked by someone why this happens only in sparta, she answered" because only here we give birth to real men." A brave man is not afraid of the will of a strong woman, since the ancient times.

posted March 14, 2015 11:05 PM            

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Originally posted by Xodian:
Let me guess; More of your infallible "logic" at work here ? Just proves my point about MGTOW; Everytime someone disagrees with their lame excuse of an argument, they ALWAYS go about accusing the other guy of trying to score brownie points with a woman.

Little man syndrome at work.

A logical person would actually see that a guy who has repeatedly said that he is happily married can't be trying to score points; Its an exercise in futility considering that most women would probably stay clear of such a guy (and they should) in any romantic sense and would probably only be friends with him.

And unfortunately, while I would like to contribute more to the place, I do have REAL LIFE priorities to take care of. OCCASIONALLY, I would drop by and write up a post in a thread that I want to follow up on (like the one in the first page of this thread) Only to have a facepalm moment knowing that YOU have entered the thread and posted more of your usual illogical woman-hating tirade.

And it just doesn't stops there unfortunately. You ALWAYS de-rail the topic of the thread to whine about your usual issues with women; Its so routine that its pretty much expected out of you now; And seriously, its getting old.

So yes, most of the sane people on the board are really getting tired of you and DO try to ignore you; God knows I certainly do. But then there is always that brilliant moment where you HAVE to make a personal remark; Which, when answered, ALWAYS gets another whiny illogical rebuttal from you.

And please... The fact that you have an issue with my pics only just shows your "little man" syndrome at work . Everyone here has the freedom to contribute to the same threads; Its just the nature of the threads and it keeps things light-heated around here as opposed to dealing with woman-hating cruddy posts with NO objective value.

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posted March 14, 2015 11:21 PM            

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Originally posted by Vajra:
I don't think marriages in the past were overall less toxic than today - there were just not as many options of leaving a toxic marriage without becoming a social outcast for either men or women (although some did so anyway even then), so people tended to stay married and made each other's lives miserable in other ways than through getting a divorce. Another reason why marriages in the past lasted longer is that people died much earlier on average. Especially the average life expectancy of women was cut short in the past due to the many deaths in childbirth. If someone can expect to die at age 30 or roundabout, this significantly impacts on one's expectations regarding happiness in life etc.

Rather than lamenting the fact that people today have the option of ending a dysfunctional relationship with dignity and start over, we should perhaps celebrate the fact that so many people still attempt to form close relationships at all, even though average life expectancy has doubled or even tripled and economic pressures to marry have lessened considerably. I don't see the option to divorce as a bad thing at all, and I certainly don't think that feminism is to blame for societal woes in general. Rather, every sort of emancipation of groups that were formerly at a disadvantage (be it women, ethnic groups, or gays) is something that brings us closer to the Aquarian age.

The very idea that a society as in the past, where 50 percent of the population (=women) were summarily seen as inferior, denied equal participation, and deemed as in need of "leadership" even in their own home, would be somehow preferable to a modern society with its many different options for personal lifestyle choices seems outrageous to me - under such circumstances I would never have gotten married at all. Are you aware, Aquaguy, that until the late 1970s, in central Europe a woman still required her husband's written permission to take up a job and have a bank account in her name EVEN IF SHE HAPPENED TO BE THE ONLY BREADWINNER IN THE FAMILY?! Happened to my mom who supported my dad through college. She said upon arrival in that country from her more enlightened home in Scandinavia, when realizing what she had signed up for, it felt like being sold into slavery; it made her doubt whether getting married might not have been a big mistake. They're still married - largely because my Dad is the type of man who can appreciate a woman who can think and act on her own, they're a good team to which both contribute what they can.

I seriously think you need to differentiate between Feminists (or rather: women's rights advocates) and man-haters, it's not at all the same thing. I certainly agree that hate directed against any of the genders, or against any social group, is toxic for society. Emancipation is not.

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posted March 15, 2015 12:13 AM            

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Originally posted by BellaFenice:
AG, I have to be honest here, you realize MGTOW is a cult?

A CULT.

Everyone who is a MGTOW has a hivemind mentality where their viewpoints on gender and women are superior to others. The way you are framing your arguments reflects this- everyone else is 'a liar' or 'fails to admit the truth' because we haven't taken the red pill or whatever. I really hope you step back a bit and look at the bigger picture- this sort of mindset is not only dangerous to the individual but to society in general.

MGTOW is based off of nihilism- they act as though nothing else matters when shaping a reality, and such would rather live in a "utopia" without bothering to see the damage of their objective morality and self-gratification.

Feminism is about equality, not putting down or oppressing men. Anyone who understands and engages in feminist behavior will portray this. Gender equality really is a hassle for you? You would rather continue to drag women instead of working to make the world a better place for both genders?

Your arguments for men being oppressed fall flat because you are not allowing yourself to see the whole picture, aka the reality. The thing is women face way more barriers to equality than men. I am by NO means rejecting the concerns and issues of men, but rather showing you how good you actually have it:

Women only make 77 cents to a dollar men make.

Women hold significantly less federal and state judgeships, as well as Congress seats. We have yet to have a female president as well.

Women are statistically more likely to be a victim of physical, emotional, and sexual assault in the armed forces. This is actually a very big deal at the moment.

Women are also way more likely to be date raped and raped (any non-consensual form) compared to men. On the note of sex issues, women can be denied or limited access to birth control. When is the last time you saw a man denied condoms because his gender?

Women are outnumbered by men 73% to 27% in the science fields and engineering employment. I'd say there is a lot of room for improvement.

Women in the sports world are highly outnumbered too. The salary, sponsorship, and benefit differences are outrageous.

Women are also highly subjected to sex trafficking and domestic violence compared to men. You really mean to tell me you would rather advocate for rejection of women gaining equality instead of helping to improve the situation?

Some women in the world can be sexually assaulted, yet go to jail. Ever heard of Sharia Law or honor killing? Some do not have the right to divorce, gain citizenship, or divorce their husbands.

We live in a world controlled by white, heterosexual men. Everyone else who does not meet this description is oppressed in one way or another. I really didn't want to get involved but at the same time your comments are actually quite harmful. We can agree to disagree here, because until you are willing to face the internal chaos and pain, these debates will never change.

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posted March 15, 2015 06:37 AM            

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Originally posted by Odette:
This is actually a perfect example of what I was referring to earlier. His daughter's character in the movie (the one who falls in love with Ryan Gosling) is exactly the kind of person I mentioned: coming from a typical, normal, nice family with no real problems - Her biggest problems in life are what lipstick colour she wears and which bad boy to reform next.

His wife who cheats on him is a middle-aged version of her daughter.
Classic adventure-seeking "girl next door" types, who have relatively easy lives, too much time on their hands and nothing else to do with themselves.
They feel -unfulfilled- and don't know how to achieve a sense of personal enjoyment and happiness by themselves.

Because if they had a time consuming career, for instance, they'd have no energy left over for this.
Or, if they had a hobby like travelling around the world -"Eat, pray, love" style... again, they wouldn't bother with a bad boy.

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Sort of Odette, A) real problem is their social circle is a stone cold bore, great unsaid about women is boredom is deadly B)Career women are (imho) most likely to enjoy the 50 shades of grey types of men

Once again, because boredom.

Could write volumes on that subject just from what I've personally witnessed and the whys and the seemingly mind boggling to men, decisions women can make.

Dr over there...loser over there..let's go with the loser! He's fun!

Once heard it said, women want financial security..more importantly they want emotional security (in a relationship)

posted March 15, 2015 06:40 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by aquaguy91:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Xodian:
[b] Typical lowbrow MGTOW sh**y mentality; Anyone and everyone who doesn't agree with their POV and calls them out on their BS (Most of which hardly qualifies as objective views and are mostly personal "perspectives" and anecdotes) is a "White Knight."

HA! MGTOW movement has to be this century's biggest clown car; With only a few (and I mean VERY few) of its members having legit issues and is mostly filled with young angry losers. Its like dealing with immature highschoolers who go around flashing their teeny weeny 4 inchers to every schoolgirl in the year, proclaiming their imaginary sense of masculinity; Only to be shot down by every given girl for their crass behavior, which in turn angers them and they set up their own personal "flashers" club where they proclaim that one dude in their group that may have a 4.5 incher as their supreme "manly" archetype.

Meanwhile, the rest of the guys in highschool are busy dating, getting ready for Uni and getting along wonderfully with girls. And MGTOW obviously point at these guys and tell them that they are being "feminized" by the Feminazis of the world.

MGTOW... They should rename themselves as "LDTOG" (Losers digging their own graves.)

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Have to, heistantly, agree with you on that one AG.

posted March 15, 2015 06:43 AM            

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Originally posted by hannaramaa:
Can we also mention how generally men make more and that's why they're ordered to pay alimony? Just a tiny little detail.

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Lil tale, on the job the bossette, who had been there for yrs, literally has missed 6 weeks of work out of the last 5 months for everything from health issues to a death in the family.

posted March 15, 2015 01:58 PM            

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Originally posted by Padre35:
Have to, heistantly, agree with you on that one AG.

No offense Xodiian, you very much are a "yes m'lady" sort of fella..psst..women do not fart unicorns and do everything perfectly all of the time..pedestals are rather narrow places

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He's happily married, and women like him as a friend, as well. He's hardly a pushover.

posted March 15, 2015 02:47 PM            

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Originally posted by DeepFreeze:
Interesting. I thought it was a Leo thing. But thanks for answering!

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I tend to get along well with Leos for that exact reason.

posted March 15, 2015 05:23 PM            

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Originally posted by aquaguy91:
Hannarama,
There is no gender pay-gap, atleast not in the way that you've been told.

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I think you honestly just enjoy arguing and getting attention from it. I don't need to be "told" something I experience/d firsthand.

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Yes, when you look at the numbers men get paid more

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Thank you.

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...but there are reasons for that and sexism "usually" isn't one of them.

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Oh.

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One of the main reasons men make more is because we are more willing to do dirty/dangerous jobs to make more money.

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More willing, or men are hired for those jobs because there's an implicit trust they can handle them i.e. sticking true to the sexist stereotype that women are "afraid to break a nail," or "afraid to get dirty."

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Case and point: I worked at a company that has several plants here in town. Some of the plants are more modern and comfortable and have air conditioning and better ventilation. Other plants aren't so nice..... they do not have air conditioning and the air quality is horrible and conditions are more hazardous and nasty in general. Guess which plants women choose to work in? The nicer ones with air conditioning. As a result they don't get the higher pay that the guys in the other plants get.This is only one example but this one example illustrates womens habits. Women will choose safety and comfort over higher pay whereas men are more willing to put up with more to make more.

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Well, at least I can brush up on my logical fallacies: begging the question, circular argument, non-sequitur comments, straw man argument... If the working conditions are better in the other plant and men are still doing the dirty jobs, why wouldn't they go work at the other plant? By your account I would guess everyone in the plant with better working conditions makes less so the company may provide such working conditions, not just women.

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Also, I read an article that talked about how male nurses make more than women. Why is that? The article said that male nurses usually get assigned to more difficult patients and have to lift the heavier ones. Male nurses are also more likely to work graveyard shifts and overtime. The bottom line is women aren't typically as willing to do what it takes to make the extra money.

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Can you provide a link to the article? Is it a credited source? Male nurses may very well get assigned to more difficult patients. You know why? Not because women can't do it, because of *whispers* s e x i s m. You've given two examples of jobs that are physically strenuous and said "That's it! That's why women don't make more, they're lazier than men." This doesn't provide any coherent explanation about female bosses, CEOs, doctors, managers, lawyers, women in maintenance, mathematics, etc. When you can start providing links to the articles you read and they're from credited, I may start taking your argument more seriously than just obstinacy.

Here are some links to inform you: http://www.aauw.org/research/the-simple-truth-about-the-gender-pay-gap/

Look! A plethora of valid information! http://www.huffingtonpost.com/news/gender-pay-gap/

Oh, I believe this was written last week: "Women make 77 cents for every dollar that men do." Hmm. http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2015/03/06/mislea ding-gender-pay-gap-statistics-for-international-womens-day/

Here's another site supporting the same fact, but it's more reputable because it ends in '.org' http://www.iwpr.org/initiatives/pay-equity-and-discrimination

posted March 15, 2015 06:36 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by hannaramaa:
Can you provide a link to the article? Is it a credited source? Male nurses may very well get assigned to more difficult patients. You know why? Not because women can't do it, because of *whispers* s e x i s m. You've given two examples of jobs that are physically strenuous and said "That's it! That's why women don't make more, they're lazier than men." This doesn't provide any coherent explanation about female bosses, CEOs, doctors, managers, lawyers, women in maintenance, mathematics, etc. When you can start providing links to the articles you read and they're from credited, I may start taking your argument more seriously than just obstinacy.

Here are some links to inform you: http://www.aauw.org/research/the-simple-truth-about-the-gender-pay-gap/

Look! A plethora of valid information! http://www.huffingtonpost.com/news/gender-pay-gap/

Oh, I believe this was written last week: "Women make 77 cents for every dollar that men do." Hmm. http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2015/03/06/mislea ding-gender-pay-gap-statistics-for-international-womens-day/

Here's another site supporting the same fact, but it's more reputable because it ends in '.org' http://www.iwpr.org/initiatives/pay-equity-and-discrimination

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posted March 15, 2015 06:53 PM            

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Originally posted by aquaguy91:

Hannarama,
Of course men make more money.

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Finally we agree!

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I'm not going to waste my time posting links because it won't change your mind anyway.

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Mhm.

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You're just a brainwashed bleeding heart liberal like 90% of the people on this forum.

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I think the term you're looking for is "educated", but thank you! I would much rather care about people than not.

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But the information is out there....in fact you can find it on the Department of Labor site. [/B]

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posted March 15, 2015 07:00 PM            

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Originally posted by aquaguy91:

Hannarama,
Of course men make more money. Men work more overtime, work more dangerous jobs, and enter the workforce at an earlier age and stay in the workforce their entire lives. Women, on the other hand, work less overtime, miss more days of work, and ultimately choose safer jobs over more dangerous jobs that pay more. It's no secret that men make up the majority of workplace fatalities every year. These are all facts.... I'm not going to waste my time posting links because it won't change your mind anyway. You're just a brainwashed bleeding heart liberal like 90% of the people on this forum. But the information is out there....in fact you can find it on the Department of Labor site.

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posted March 15, 2015 07:19 PM            

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Originally posted by SaturnFan:
Huh? I am female, started working at age 16 and have done grave yard shifts, as well as 12-hour and 15-hour shifts, in my many years of work, without ever viewing myself as not being strong enough to work. According to your statement I don't exist?

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posted March 15, 2015 07:35 PM            

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Originally posted by aquaguy91:
Saturnfan,
You are the exception and not the rule. We are talking about averages here. Men, on average, enter the workforce sooner and stay in their entire lives. Whereas women may go through periods where they don't work for months or years for childbirth and raising. This is just common sense stuff here.... So given those factors and the fact that men are typically willing to work more physically taxing and dangerous jobs it should be no surprise that men make more money on average.

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posted March 15, 2015 07:49 PM            

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Originally posted by fenia:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by aquaguy91:
[b] Saturnfan,
You are the exception and not the rule. We are talking about averages here. Men, on average, enter the workforce sooner and stay in their entire lives. Whereas women may go through periods where they don't work for months or years for childbirth and raising. This is just common sense stuff here.... So given those factors and the fact that men are typically willing to work more physically taxing and dangerous jobs it should be no surprise that men make more money on average.

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[/B][/QUOTE]
Huh? lol Who said I don't appreciate stay-at-home parents? I do! I admire them! Unfortunately stay-at-home parents don't make companies money and that's what they are concerned about. Men are working more hours consistently and it's just commonsense that they are getting more promotions, raises, and bonuses etc. And huh? Lady, you don't know me. I've done it all.. I have experience in: factories,janitorial work,landscaping,warehouses,construction,security/asset protection, and I helped a mechanic when his regular employee was out taking care of his sick family member. I've done some exhausting, sweaty,nasty, and hard work..... I've been outdoors working when it was 20 degrees and snowing and when it was 90 plus degrees with high humidity. Have you ever threw up from dehydration while you were working and came home sweating so much it looked like you had jumped in a pool? I have! So don't tell me I haven't had rough jobs...

posted March 15, 2015 09:42 PM              

From the Dept. Of labor, as you suggested, AG.

The thing that you're leaving out is not if men make more or not. You're leaving out that it's unequal pay for similar work.

posted March 15, 2015 11:28 PM            

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Originally posted by BellaFenice:

We live in a world controlled by white, heterosexual men. Everyone else who does not meet this description is oppressed in one way or another.

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