posted September 02, 2014 08:37 PM            

No time right now to do a thorough analysis, but at quick glance, while I may see more 0 degree aspects, I'm not necessarily seeing more 0-2 degree conjunctions. If anything, the more disastrous the relationship, the more conjunctions. But then I'm not particularly skilled in long-term romantic relationships, so my data may not be the best example.

posted September 02, 2014 10:42 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by LeeLoo2014:

Astro Keen.. do they really have a Moon conjunct Saturn (0) DW in Draco synastry? I remember they do have a Moon/Saturn theme in their tropical synastry, were they conjunct?

---

Well spotted! It is O one way (according to astro.com table) and <2 the other:

His Moon - 11°52' Libra
Her Saturn - 10° 1' Libra

Her Moon - 17°36' Libra
His Saturn - 17° 9' Libra

The tropical conjunctions are wider - up to 4 degrees

posted September 02, 2014 11:35 PM            

Could it be that the draco-to-draco comparison is simply uncovering connections in relation to the Nodes that aren't easily seen in the tropical zodiac>?

But those ^ have to be NODE-specific, mind-blowing at the least, am I right>?

Let's take an example,

Yoko one and Lennon;

Their draco-to-draco synastry has an Uranus-Uranus opposition.

But what is causing it?

Well, *THIS* in their tropical natal/synastry;

Lennon natal;

uranus - NN 45 degree
uranus - SN 135 degree

yoko one;

uranus - NN 135 degree
uranus - SN 45 degree

Their synastry has;

- Uranus-Uranus 45 degree
- NN/SN 45 degree
- SN/NN 45 degree

Well, so far I *GET* the significance of a draco-draco same planet opposition.
The underlying symmetry is wonderful. You can *FEEL* the resonance.

But, what about the rest? What is a random draco-to-draco synastry conjunction between 2 different planets actually doing?

And..

posted September 03, 2014 01:13 AM            

- I don`t quite agree with Dawn Bodgrogi in this instance

- however, I do think that those planets that are conjunct/ square the nodes tropically warrant a very close examination of their dracos, too

- it might be difficult for me to say though, as I have yet to see a strong synastry without conjunctions or squares to the nodal axis at least one way (usually made by Sun, Moon, Venus, Mars, Saturn, the angles or ruler of 7th house)

- for the manifestation of DRcos it seems to be most important to me that there are tight conj/ oppositions to the tropical level to givwe them an outlet

- conj./ oppositions in this instance are the paramount aspects as they create portal of manifestation, a resonance-axis; though I agree that in a tropical synasry people react to different aspects.

(of course a conjuncton of Draco to tropical might trigger an already existing aspects, so the Draco planet would also be in another aspect than conj/ opp. to the tropical ones, but at least one of those must be a conj/ opposition for the activation to take place)

- do not forget that the Draco-tropuical conjunction reflects the natal nodal arc.

Meaning: someone has Nn on 151° or 1° Virgo.
Everytime there is a planet 151° from another one this will result in a Draco-tropical alingment.

Happening with Mr Sag and me and our soulmate pairings.

his Siva 28 Capricorn
his Dr Siva 27 Leo
my parvati 28 Leo

his Isis 9 Gemini
his Dr Isis 8 Cap
my Isis-osiris 7 and 8 Cap

and this one

posted September 03, 2014 08:38 AM            

In my parents' Draconic charts (they have been together for over 30 years, first and only marriage for both), I have found no planetary conjunctions. BUT several asteroid ones.

Most obvious:
- exact Moon-Chiron
- Vesta-Chiron (there's that Chiron link you mentioned. What's that all about )

And here's a PoF link:
-exact PoF-AC
(I have noticed PoF links in way too many synastries now to just be anecdotal)

posted September 03, 2014 10:44 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by LeeLoo2014:
Thank you, ladies, keep them coming. Selene and Tulipe, you have so many conjunctions in your "failed" ones...you're contradicting my theory I haven't found that many in failed/short-term. This means a lot of data is needed. Do you have significant Draco/natal as well?

---

posted September 03, 2014 10:59 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tulipe:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by LeeLoo2014:
[b]It sounds ominous for me, can I recover from this?

---

Honestly?
Not likely.

However, I pay most attention to angles, luminaries, nodal axis and the like. Especially with the Draconic chart being a nodal chart already being a solar-lunar-chart on its own.

Nevertheless, I`d also pay most attention to the dracoDraco aspects, aligned with the tropical chart.

Where it gets interesting is when both people have tropical AND draco planets on the same axis, and what comes under the tropical aspect, might be quite different, under the sufrace.

For example

Let`s say guy has Uranus on 10 Libra, girl has Venus on 10 Libra.

But on the draconic level guy has Moon on 10 LIbra and gilr has Pluto on 10 Libra.

Now wouldn`t THAT be an interesting interchange?

Tropically a Venus-Uranus-conjunction, exciting,e xhilarating, but unupredictable and maybe unstable and even possibly with a bit of commitment issues on guy`s side.

But underneath it a Moon-pluto-conjunction, introducing a "Wuthering Height" scenario. Something will rumble underneath and make it rather difficult to just get up and leave. Something drawing th epeople back together, while at the same time playing the Venus-Uranus (yes-no-yes) game.

posted September 03, 2014 11:29 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ceridwen:
Leeloo,

what asteroids do you suggest I should use for the draco check up?

---

I think it's really important to use a set of asteroids pertaining to the relationship. If it's a friendship ( a soulmate friend), all those related to friendship. If it's a "marital" relationship, a set of marital asteroids. If it's romance/eros, a romantic/erotic set. And also the asteroids pertaining to your synastri theme: for example, since you have an interest/connection with Mr Sag and the celtic ones and since you already have strong connections between those, I suggest you use those. If it's a more complex, overall rich synastry like yours and Mr Sag's I guess you should use several sets, several analyses: marital analysis, romance/eros analysis, specific theme (Camelot) analysis.

I would use Plutonian themed asteroids for my Draco for instance, because we have this one strong.

Astro Keen, I suggest you use a marital set for your son*his girlfriend, because of their Moon/Saturn theme.

------------------

posted September 03, 2014 11:48 AM            

Not making this any easier for me, are you? lol

posted September 03, 2014 11:49 AM            

- marital theme
- romance/ erotic
- friendship?

posted September 03, 2014 11:52 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by mir:
Wondering here...

Could it be that the draco-to-draco comparison is simply uncovering connections in relation to the Nodes that aren't easily seen in the tropical zodiac>?

But those ^ have to be NODE-specific, mind-blowing at the least, am I right>?

Let's take an example,

Yoko one and Lennon;

Their draco-to-draco synastry has an Uranus-Uranus opposition.

But what is causing it?

Well, *THIS* in their tropical natal/synastry;

Lennon natal;

uranus - NN 45 degree
uranus - SN 135 degree

yoko one;

uranus - NN 135 degree
uranus - SN 45 degree

Their synastry has;

- Uranus-Uranus 45 degree
- NN/SN 45 degree
- SN/NN 45 degree

Well, so far I *GET* the significance of a draco-draco same planet opposition.
The underlying symmetry is wonderful. You can *FEEL* the resonance.

But, what about the rest? What is a random draco-to-draco synastry conjunction between 2 different planets actually doing?

And..

Am I coming closer now to what Dawn means that without nodal contacts or actual natal chart dynamics, draconic to draconic positions have nothing to hold them–water with no glass to carry it in?

---

Mir, I LOVE how you always look for the mathematical reasons behind things...I'm very interested in this approach you have. I was wondering about the same thing: well, mathematics is not exactly my forte, so question: aligning the Nodes to 0 Aries actually means moving everything with the distance between the 2 Nodes, either clockwise or counterclockwise, depending where the node is compared to Aries.

EDIT: or perhaps everything is to be moved ALWAYS in the zodiacal sense?

For example, 10 degree between our Nodes in Sag. - all planets (in both charts) will be moved 10 degrees in the zodiacal sense with 10 deg., am I right? So the key to your question must be this arc between the two Nodes.

------------------

posted September 03, 2014 11:56 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ceridwen:
Anyway, what asteroids would you use for a

- marital theme
- romance/ erotic
- friendship?

---

You are right, I have to make little lists for these I'll get back!

posted September 03, 2014 11:58 AM            

my tropical Pluto 9 Libra
my Draco Pluto 28 Capricorn

my Draco Pluto
---------------
conjunct his Dr IC (1)
conjunct his Dr ALMA (2)
opposite his Dr Sun (3)
opposite his Dr Moon (1)

conjunct his Venus (3)
opposite his JUNO (1)

my tropical Pluto
------------------
opposite his Dr AMOR (1)
opposite his Dr Jupiter exact
opposite his Dr Mars exact
conjunct his Dr EROS (2)

--------------------------------------
--------------------------------------

his tropical Saturn: 26 Virgo
his Draco Saturn: 25 Aries

his Draco Saturn:
conjunct my Dr Venus exact

his tropical Saturn:
conjunct my Dr DESC exact
opposite my Dr Mars (2)
opposite my Dr LUST (1)
opposite my Dr Neptune (3)

posted September 03, 2014 12:06 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tulipe:
Thanks Ceri, the bells of doom aside , it's interesting to note these subtle influences. For example, in tropical synastry my Saturn/Uranus opposite his Moon (0-2), this spells unpredictable and maybe on and off too. On another level, my Draco Sun opposite his Draco Pluto (1) and this opposition is right on tropical Saturn/Uranus - Moon opposition, so it's also obsessive and has a subtle power play, mostly unconciously.

---

Yes exactly, that is where things get interesting and multilayered.

I also wonder how someone feels if their "burning aspects" are being also activated from the draconic level.

For example I notice Mr Sag has Venus on 25.55 Capricorn opposing his JUNO on 27.40 Cancer (from 11th to 5th house).

For him personally that is also interesting in terms of the Dracos as his

Draco Sun 25.35 Cancer
Draco Moon 27.17 Cancer
Draco MC 27.09 Cancer

So it is instantly noteable how two of his hot spots overlay each other, the Draco Sun-Moon-MC docking onto his Juno and opposing his Venus.

Now there is me, and I put my Pluto-MC-conjunction in the DRacos right on top of it.
my Draco Pluto 28.55 Capricorn
my Draco MC 24.48 Capricorn
my Draco ALMA 26.34 Cancer

how that connects to each other astrologically looks quite fascinating to me, though I can`t say I have a firm grasp on interpreting it, other than knowing that "there´s something up". lol

posted September 03, 2014 12:33 PM            

I can't think whether a marital set of asteroids would differ much from the romantic set.

Juno. for example, would definitely feature in the marital set, and one could add Ceres, Briede and Groom. Perhaps some from the loyalty theme, such as Constantia.

posted September 03, 2014 03:25 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by mir:
Hello hello,

Is there a clear thinker in the room?

Dawn wrote on her INNNER WHEEL site this;

This was her reply on a question involving a draco-draco DW synastry conjunction (so purely draco planets) ...

Anyone clear enough to explain?

---

Mir, let me tell you what I do: first I check the tropical synastry: it tells us everything -well, maybe not everything, but it tells us what kind of synastry this is - how strong and what is its nature (of the relationship).

Then I always check Draco to natal first - I think looking at the Draco synastry per se could be misleading. The Draco to natal usually tells us more, but on the same line - it doesn't contradict the tropical synastry. Then I look at the Draco synastry - it usually shows some unusual additions to the theme. It shows an alignment - but I'm still working on identifying it. Plus, I'm not sure yet (not enough data) how strong Dracos are for ANY kind of relationship.

But so far it looks like Draco shows, somehow, the result (of the relationship) - its best outcome. I think Draco charts are very predictive.

posted September 03, 2014 03:27 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Astro keen:
LeeLoo,

I can't think whether a marital set of asteroids would differ much from the romantic set.

Juno. for example, would definitely feature in the marital set, and one could add Ceres, Briede and Groom. Perhaps some from the loyalty theme, such as Constantia.

But there are many that could feature in either - Alma, Destinn, Union, Karma, Valentine, Amor, Psyche.

---

You are right, Astro keen, I'll come up with these lists tomorrow.

posted September 03, 2014 05:56 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by libran_dream:
Really interesting observation.

In my parents' Draconic charts (they have been together for over 30 years, first and only marriage for both), I have found no planetary conjunctions. BUT several asteroid ones.

Most obvious:
- exact Moon-Chiron
- Vesta-Chiron (there's that Chiron link you mentioned. What's that all about )

And here's a PoF link:
-exact PoF-AC
(I have noticed PoF links in way too many synastries now to just be anecdotal)

A little wider(2-4)
-Union-Psyche
-Lust-Sun
-Valentine-IC
-Amor-DC/Saturn
-Dejanira-Amor/MC

---

Very interesting, thanks. yes, there's something with Chiron in Draco, I'm not sure yet what it means.

here are some more famous examples (only conjunctions - Chiron):

Wallis/Edward

Chiron/Moon/MC (1)
Chiron/Jupiter (0)

Camilla/Charles
Chiron/Priapus (0) part of a cross with angles
Chiron/Vertex (3)

Victoria/David Beckham

Chiron/Psyche/POF (1)
Chiron/Avx (0)

Trudie/Sting

Chiron/Vertex on Mars Saturn and Valentine
Chiron/NN (3)

Bening/Warren Beatty

Chiron/Sun/Cupido (0)

Marie/Pierre Curie

Chiron/NN (2)

Goldie Hawn/Kurt

Chiron/Uranus (0)

Catherine zeta/Michael Douglas

Chiron/Pluto (1)

Iman/Bowie
Chiron opp Sun/Mars

Jennifer Garner/Ben Affleck
Chiron/Sun (2) near Vesta and ASC

Eva/Juan Peron
Sun/Chiron/Pluto (1)

posted September 04, 2014 08:25 AM            

3 Juno
4 Vesta
2 Pallas
1 Ceres
390 Alma
16 Psyche
1221 Amor
1585 Union
46 Hestia
1108 Demeter
37 Fides
3631 Sigyn
4059 Balder
1328 Devota
6353 Semper
446 Aeternitas
1943 Anteros
124 Alkeste
1487 Boda
4950 House
306 Unitas
19029 Briede
5129 Groom
Cupido (h)
Zeus (h)

Pairs:
201 Penelope/1143 Odysseus/5254 Ulysses
103 Hera/5731 Zeus
King(2305)-Queen(5457)
Groom(5129)-Briede(19029)
Alkeste 124/Admetos h45

other faithful pairs - your suggestion

Romance asteroids

447 Valentine
1221 Amor
763 Cupido
1585 Union
499 Venusia
7696 Liebe
433 Eros
16 Psyche
1943 Anteros
268 Adorea
109 Felicitas
Cupido (h)
Poseidon (h)

all the mythical couples (IMO, they have more of a romantic significance, rather than a marital one)
Mythical pairs
Pluto-Persephone(26),Proserpina(399)**some use (504)Cora for Kore
Jupiter - Juno
103 Hera/5731 Zeus
Uranus Gaea(1184)
Eros 433 - Psyche 16
Adonis(2101)-Aphrodite(1388), Ishtar(7088), Innamen(3497), Astarte(672)
Chiron Chariklo(10199)
Adam (6461) - Eva (164)
Amphitrite (29)-Poseidon(4341)
Cyllarus(52975) Hylonome(10370)
Groom(5129)-Briede(19029)
King(2305)-Queen(5457)
Lancelot (2041)-Guinevere(2483)
Orpheus(3361)-Eurydike(75)
Paris(3317)-Helena (101)
Pyramus(88)-Thisbe(14871)
Pygmalion(96189)-Galatea(74)
Tristan(1966)-Isolda(211)
Nefertiti(3199)-Amenhotep(4847)
Osiris (1923)-Isis(42)
Ptah(5011)-Sekhemet(5381)
(Male)-- Siva (1170), Rudra (2629), Mahakala (10819), Shankar (22817), Hara (4640)
(Female)-- Kaali (4227), Tara (5863), Parvati (2847)
124 Alkeste/h45 Admetos

Eros/sexual asteroids

433 Eros
4386 Lust
Lilith (astro)
1181 Lilit
the other Liliths
h22 Priapus
1388 Aphrodite
2101 Adonis
80 Sappho
4450 Pan
875 Nymphe
34 Circe
1009 Sirene
216 Kleopatra
344 Desiderata
562 Salome

For sacred sexuality:
4 Vesta
2 Pallas
1387 Kama
193 Ambrosia
2815 Soma
12472 Samadhi
3671 Dionysus
2063 Bacchus
Vedic pairs

Fate asteroids

3811 Karma
6583 Destinn
5145 Pholus
638 Moira
273 Atropos
97 Klotho
120 Lachesis
621 Werdandi
1130 Skuld
167 Urda
19 Fortuna
Admetos (h)
Apollo (h)
Kronos (h)

Please feel free to suggest more.
------------------

posted September 04, 2014 12:43 PM            

Let’s take your example of 10 degree distance between both NN’s. That would be a distance of 170 degrees between each other's NN and SN.

Now, if you find a draco-draco *conjunction* between, let’s say Moon-Moon, then you will always see a tropical Moon-Moon angle of 10 degr. Also, both tropical natals will have a NN-Moon angle of 10 degr. + SN-Moon angle of 170 degr.

Now, if you find a draco-draco *opposition* between Moon-Moon, then you will always see an angle of 170 degr. between both tropical Moons. And in that case, the tropical natal NN-Moon angle of person A will be 170 degr. while for person B it will be a SN-Moon angle of 170 degr. And A will ofcourse then have a SN-Moon angle of 10 degr. while B a NN-Moon angle of 10 degr.

That’s ^ about the formula for draco-draco conjunctions and oppositions.

posted September 05, 2014 08:01 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by mir:
Lee, my mind can't reach further than this now, yea it has everything to do with the distance between the nodes of person A and the nodes of person B. But moving all planets with that distance-degree?

Let’s take your example of 10 degree distance between both NN’s. That would be a distance of 170 degrees between each other's NN and SN.

Now, if you find a draco-draco *conjunction* between, let’s say Moon-Moon, then you will always see a tropical Moon-Moon angle of 10 degr. Also, both tropical natals will have a NN-Moon angle of 10 degr. + SN-Moon angle of 170 degr.

Now, if you find a draco-draco *opposition* between Moon-Moon, then you will always see an angle of 170 degr. between both tropical Moons. And in that case, the tropical natal NN-Moon angle of person A will be 170 degr. while for person B it will be a SN-Moon angle of 170 degr. And A will ofcourse then have a SN-Moon angle of 10 degr. while B a NN-Moon angle of 10 degr.

That’s ^ about the formula for draco-draco conjunctions and oppositions.

It wouldn't surpise me if I miss a very elementary something..

---

That's interesting, Mir, because it's deducing the tropical aspects out of Draco.

posted September 05, 2014 12:50 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ceridwen:
Honestly?
Not likely.

However, I pay most attention to angles, luminaries, nodal axis and the like. Especially with the Draconic chart being a nodal chart already being a solar-lunar-chart on its own.

Nevertheless, I`d also pay most attention to the dracoDraco aspects, aligned with the tropical chart.

Where it gets interesting is when both people have tropical AND draco planets on the same axis, and what comes under the tropical aspect, might be quite different, under the sufrace.

For example

Let`s say guy has Uranus on 10 Libra, girl has Venus on 10 Libra.

But on the draconic level guy has Moon on 10 LIbra and gilr has Pluto on 10 Libra.

Now wouldn`t THAT be an interesting interchange?

Tropically a Venus-Uranus-conjunction, exciting,e xhilarating, but unupredictable and maybe unstable and even possibly with a bit of commitment issues on guy`s side.

But underneath it a Moon-pluto-conjunction, introducing a "Wuthering Height" scenario. Something will rumble underneath and make it rather difficult to just get up and leave. Something drawing th epeople back together, while at the same time playing the Venus-Uranus (yes-no-yes) game.

---

Very interesting example. Checking our Draco alignments and where they "fall" in the tropical and also the other way around our tropical conjunctions/oppositions and where they fall in Draco synastry, I discover:

My Draco ASC/his Venus/Pallas/Psyche/POF on his natal Amor opposing my natal Vesta - I suppose this is a simple fated/connective marker

His Draco Venus/Juno conjunct my Psyche on my natal IC opp his natal Moon - again, a fate/connective marker

His Draco Mercury/Jupiter is "underneath" our tropical Mars/Eros conjunction - so the Mars/Eros connection should stimulate Mercury/Jupiter (rulers of all the angles/nodes), expand his mind somehow lol

Our Draco conjunction: his Sun/Karma/Vertex conjunct my Jupiter/Juno exact sits right on his MC/Saturn - more fate

His Draco Amor is awakened by my natal Moon (0)

Our Draco conjunction: my Karma/his MC/Saturn conjuncts my Libra stellium, his Pluto, ASC, Valentine etc.

Our exact Pluto/Vesta conjunction in Draco is awakened by my Cap ASC in tropical.

Another interesting thing to look at, perhaps a different topic though, or just related, is the alignment between Draco composite and natal placements: the underlying energy of the fated composite will be triggered by certain natal placements. In this case:

Draco Venus/ASC opp my Venus - so my natal Venus sits right on the DSC of the relationship.

Draco Neptune conjunct his Sun opp my Sun - no doubt this suggests a Neptunian relationship, no wonder the 12th house overlays.

Draco Sun/Mercury conjunct his DSC opp my Mars and my stellium, his Pluto etc multiple aspects.

The mutual DSC activation seems to be quite strong.

Draco POF is our Chiron mdp, Chiron being conjunct in synastry.

Draco Lilith is my IC opp his Moon.

Draco Juno/Ceres is his Mars EXACT, so I guess he is the Juno/Ceres in this combo. Of course, this means an activation by our Venus/Mars/Neptune cross in synastry.

Draco Jupiter/Pholus/IC my Karma EXACT and my SN - quite impressive this one...how many chances there are to get a Draco composite with so many alignments with fated markers?

Draco Eros on my DSC and Cupido

Draco DSC on my Venus

Draco Vertex EXACTLY on my Sun opp his Sun

Draco Amor on his Vesta exact

Draco Mars on his Moon (1)

Draco Priapus on my Neptune

Draco MC on our NN mdp EXACT

Draco Union on his NN (2)

Draco Pluto/Valentine on my ASC

Draco Uranus/Vesta on his Venus/Juno

Almost every composite placement is aligned with a natal placement in tight orb.

------------------

posted September 05, 2014 01:11 PM            

My Draco Sun conjunct his natal Uranus 2 - his Uranus makes 5 exact aspects with my planets and points, and features very significantly.. and my Sun on this personalizes these aspects for me.. i will say even - his Uranus awakened my past self in me - i remembered.

My Draco Moon opposite his natal Sun 3 - given the square my Uranus makes to his Sun in tropical, it also involves my emotions in the game

My Draco Mercury conjunct his natal SN exact
My Draco Venus conjunct his natal SN exact - these ones pretty obvious

My Draco Venus conjunct his natal Uranus 3 - again awakening all those aspects

My Draco Mars conjunct his natal ASC 4 (wide)

My Draco Jupiter opposite his natal Sun exact

My Draco Saturn conjunct his natal Venus exact - on my own tropical DSC&Karma. It was fated for me to meet him - past life debts in relationships, i just don't understand who owes whom. I guess both owe both, just differently.

My Draco Uranus conjunct his natal Sun/Moon MP exact - no comments, Uranus again

My Draco Pluto conjunct his natal Jupiter exact - this also conjuncts my natal Neptune and our composite Sun. Powerful stuff.

My Draco MC conjunct his natal ASC 3

His Draco Sun opposite my natal Chiron exact - in his past life he may have wounded me deeply or the other way around

His Draco Moon conjunct my natal Pluto 3 - replicates our composite where we have Moon conjunct Pluto. Deep emotions. Given the fact that his Moon is practically unaspected in our tropical, except for an opposition to my Chiron, and minor aspects (Moon quintile Pluto) this shows his emotions involved.

His Draco Mercury conjunct my natal Moon exact

His Draco Venus conjunct my natal Uranus exact - again it shows, why he gets somehow involved with women who have something heavy in Capricorn 5.. I have Uranus there, his ex - Neptune. It not only squares his Sun exact, it also triggers his Draco Venus.

His Draco Neptune conjunct my natal Sun 3

His Draco Pluto conjunct my natal antivertex 1

His Draco Vertec conjunct my natal Mercury 1

His Draco Vertex conjunct my natal Venus 2

His Draco IC conjunct my natal Chiron exact