posted September 25, 2014 09:49 AM            

Not sure yet about the meaning of the ASC correction Ceri pointed out, still on standby with this one.

An attempt to categorize aspects in the composite chart:

1st category: they result from DWs in the synastry
2nd category: they are a new aspect, not pre-existent in the synastry, but maybe this new aspect may be found in other indirect syastric connections, at least on a symbolic level??
do you suggest other categories??

Anyway, as a first question, inspired by Orange:

1. how do we interpret a composite aspect resulting from a synastric DW?

I intend to analyze for my synastry (and others) this translation from synastry to composite and then Davison, to see what actually happens there, both mathematically and symbolically. Please join with your own analysis

posted September 25, 2014 10:28 AM            

I was wondering myself about the dynamic of a certain Composite Sun-Moon inconjunction resulting from synastrical DW of Sun-Moon trine and Sun-Moon sextile. Why would two soft aspect between two planets result in a tension aspect in the Composite, what does it mean really?

posted September 25, 2014 10:35 AM            

"reasons for the powerfulness of composite
------------------------------------------
conjunctions and oppositions:
--------------------------------

1) mutual cross chart angle or aspect (synastry)

2) parallel angle or aspect (natal)

DEGREES of POWER
----------------
most powerful
composite alignment that is supported by mutal cross aspect AND parallel natal aspect
--------------------------------------------

second most powerful
composite alignmetn that is supported by mutual cross aspect but NO parallel natal
-----------------------------------------
aspect
---------

maybe not third most powerful, but still important
composite alignment thta is supported by parallel natal aspect but NO mutual cross aspect.

(I think aspects would include the lower harmonics and minor aspects as well; probably up to the point when their effect gets too internal to be anything but subtly seen; so the aspect series would include the 5th, 7th, 8th, 9th and 12th harmonic and probably the quindecile; but most likely the major aspects would have the srongest effect)"

If there is an aspect in the composite it is ALWAYS the result of the angular distance in the natal chart.

If two people have the same natal aspect it will also show in the composite, either as the same aspect (if the natal ones were in the same aspect phase) or as conj/ opposition, (if the natal aspects were in the opposite phase).

posted September 25, 2014 10:38 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Orange:
great thread as usual, LL

I was wondering myself about the dynamic of a certain Composite Sun-Moon inconjunction resulting from synastrical DW of Sun-Moon trine and Sun-Moon sextile. Why would two soft aspect between two planets result in a tension aspect in the Composite, what does it mean really?

I guess we all keep forgetting that the Composite is a midpoint chart containing nothing but midpoints. Hard aspects between two midpoints usually are not regarded as being stressful, they just show a connection, a definite link.

---

I am wondering that as well.

Just in our case the different route.

We have both Mars and Amor near our natal NN. Synastrically they are square.

Since the squares are in the opposite phases, this becomes a conjunction of Mars and Amor with the nodal axis in the composite.

Another example is our natal parallel aspect of Juno trine Saturn, and juno sextile Saturn, which then becomes a square in composite.

Synastrically we have a DW of Juno-Valentine (two trins), which bcome a composite opposition.
And a DW of Valentine-Saturn (trine and sextile), resulting in a square in composite.

posted September 25, 2014 02:34 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ceridwen:
from an old thread
http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/Forum35/HTML/000255.html

"reasons for the powerfulness of composite

---

posted September 25, 2014 02:38 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ceridwen:
I am wondering that as well.

Just in our case the different route.

We have both Mars and Amor near our natal NN. Synastrically they are square.

Since the squares are in the opposite phases, this becomes a conjunction of Mars and Amor with the nodal axis in the composite.

Another example is our natal parallel aspect of Juno trine Saturn, and juno sextile Saturn, which then becomes a square in composite.

Synastrically we have a DW of Juno-Valentine (two trins), which bcome a composite opposition.
And a DW of Valentine-Saturn (trine and sextile), resulting in a square in composite.

How can the square be so disastrous, if being made from harmonious aspects synastrically?
I don´t think it necessarily is. Probably just the energy gets more intense.

---

It would be interesting to look at it in reverse....what kind of DW makes a square in the comp? Because it seems the combination trine/sextile always makes a square.

posted September 25, 2014 02:40 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by LeeLoo2014:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Ceridwen:
[b]from an old thread
http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/Forum35/HTML/000255.html

"reasons for the powerfulness of composite

---

[/B][/QUOTE]

posted September 25, 2014 02:42 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by LeeLoo2014:

It would be interesting to look at it in reverse....what kind of DW makes a square in the comp? Because it seems the combination trine/sextile always makes a square.

---

at least in most cases, probably depends on the aspect-phase too.

However, I have been wondering if we should nto take into account what the natal/ synastric basis is for a composite spect.

I could imagine a composite square that is the result of a trine/ sextile might be different than one being the result of two synastric squares.

posted September 25, 2014 02:45 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Orange:
great thread as usual, LL

I was wondering myself about the dynamic of a certain Composite Sun-Moon inconjunction resulting from synastrical DW of Sun-Moon trine and Sun-Moon sextile. Why would two soft aspect between two planets result in a tension aspect in the Composite, what does it mean really?

I guess we all keep forgetting that the Composite is a midpoint chart containing nothing but midpoints. Hard aspects between two midpoints usually are not regarded as being stressful, they just show a connection, a definite link.

---

Thanks, O I think it's about time to find out
Great remark about the two midpoints being connected. Well, I see all synastric aspects as connective. For example, my view on the quincunx and the adjustment thingy (because I think the quincunx means much more than adjustment, it's an important "event" aspect) - but, referring to the adjustment thing alone: a Venus in Leo Mars in Cap just sitting there, in the synastry, not connected, yes, they probably need a lot of adjustment to take place, probably borrowing from other connections, in order for the two to be connected this away. But if there is a quincunx (which puts them in a tight aspect actually) the adjustment has already or is already taking place: for these two people, a Venus in Leo and a Mars in Cap "adjust".

All right, so in your case the trine/sextile combo resulted in a quincunx, not a square :scratching head:

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posted September 25, 2014 02:52 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ceridwen:

I could imagine a composite square that is the result of a trine/ sextile might be different than one being the result of two synastric squares.

---

Exactly, at least their meaning. And the strange thing is that if you only look at the composite, you only see a square, in both cases.

I suppose there's a limited number of combinations to obtain a composite square.... or not? lol

Thinking...thinking...as Orange says, the mixed midpoints must be on a cross...

posted September 25, 2014 02:55 PM            

composite Mars in Leo 3.58 square Uranus 26.26 Libra (listed as a 7 deg square)

not to mention Jupiter 6.26 Pisces trine Uranus 26.26 Libra? (listed as a 9 deg trine)

that's in my composite

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posted September 25, 2014 03:41 PM            

To see how the composite satisfies natal needs: a quick example from my composite

Moon conj Pluto (5) in Libra 10th
coming from a Moon/Pluto septile/novile both exact - minors but interesting

Symbolism:
me: Cardinal(by house)/Fixed cross: Moon opp Lilith square MC in Scorpio
him: Scorpio Moon

but that's another matter
first we need, at least I do lol to understand the geometrical part

posted September 25, 2014 03:57 PM            

For example, in my chart I have that wide sextile of Venus to Uranus (5 degrees), he has Venus sextile Uranus, too, a tad closer (2 degrees).

No real important Venus-Uranus synastry on a glance, however my Uranus squaring his Venus with under 6 degrees, his Uranus very very widely semisquare my Venus (I think something between 2-3 degrees, I usually owuld not count).

Now in the composite Uranus on 12 Scorpio sextiles enus on 16 Capricorn, I find that even more important since the MC is on 16 Scorpio, and hence Uranus is angular and Venus sextile MC exact.

Even though on their own I would not have payed that much attention to either sextile (in composite or natal), it seems like it is mutually reinforcing each other, and it does become more prominent.

Well, in this respect it seems rather fitting that during our first meeting his pr Venus was trine my natal Uranus, right?

posted September 25, 2014 04:01 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Vajra:
I'm not sure what you mean, LeeLoo…? The first example is a square with orb 7°34 by zodiac degrees, even if out of sign, so naturally Astro.com would list it...? (And the other one likewise is a trine.) If you think the orb is too big, you can reduce it manually, as you surely know…?

Astro.com never differentiates between in-sign and out-of-sign aspects, and I think in composites that should be even less relevant because it's a midpoint chart, so sign qualities are perhaps not so important...

---

On the other hand, they don't list many in-sign aspects, sometimes even under 6. But that's in synastry. I'm not sure in synastry they would list such wide OOS aspects.

So what you say is interesting...that they listed it because it's a composite and signs don't matter that much. It must be automatic, I think the software lists ALL under 10 deg aspects in a comp. (with adjustment for sextiles etc)

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posted September 25, 2014 04:20 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Vajra:
Don't they? I think in the case of the major Ptolemaic aspects (except for Sextiles), they list them regardless of whether they are in- or out-of-sign with rather large orbs of up to 10 degrees. Sextiles and Quincunx receive smaller orbs always (which I think is not quite right). So far I have not noticed any adjustment regarding sign quality in any of the charts on the menu whatsoever, I think they do this across the board in a similar manner for all charts. And if I remember correctly, the orbs they use are those recommended by Liz Greene.

---

Yes, Vajra, you are right, they do list them (in the pdf), I wanted to say...and didn't manage to lol that sometimes they don't draw them on the chart unlike here where these two aspects I wouldn't consider ( or perhaps I'm wrong?? who knows?) being right in my face lol

So Liz Greene would consider an OOS 9 deg trine? I know she considers wider orbs and I don't blame her but still...

posted September 25, 2014 04:26 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ceridwen:
I agree with you. Symbolism is also very very important. HOw does the composite fill the natal needs, yes. the composite might even highlight some more subtle things in natal or synastry.

For example, in my chart I have that wide sextile of Venus to Uranus (5 degrees), he has Venus sextile Uranus, too, a tad closer (2 degrees).

No real important Venus-Uranus synastry on a glance, however my Uranus squaring his Venus with under 6 degrees, his Uranus very very widely semisquare my Venus (I think something between 2-3 degrees, I usually owuld not count).

Now in the composite Uranus on 12 Scorpio sextiles enus on 16 Capricorn, I find that even more important since the MC is on 16 Scorpio, and hence Uranus is angular and Venus sextile MC exact.

Even though on their own I would not have payed that much attention to either sextile (in composite or natal), it seems like it is mutually reinforcing each other, and it does become more prominent.

Well, in this respect it seems rather fitting that during our first meeting his pr Venus was trine my natal Uranus, right?

---

This is an interesting example for this type of symbolism, considering the sextile is a more subtle aspect, but the connection with the MC shows this relationship is meant to bring this aspect in the limelight for you too. I really like that, the potential for the composite to reflect what it brings in both people with this merging: something they share in their natals, like in this case, either by aspect or similar energy? something definitory and strong in their natals or some more hidden side of them? or the reverse, something they DON'T have in their natals and what this would mean...all these possible scenarios and the dynamics at play here is another interesting look at a composite.

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posted September 25, 2014 05:35 PM            

And the most interesting part: my Saturn (ASC ruler) trine my Jupiter (2nd and NN ruler); his Saturn (on MC, major fated position)(IC ruler) trine his Jupiter (Sun, IC, NN ruler). So the themes of IC, ASC vs Sun, 2nd house are combined and translated into comp through this trine. The theme from the natals becomes a merging theme in the comp.

I recommend the following steps:

1. list your composite aspects and configuration (aspect patterns)

2. identify their geometrical origin in synastry and natals (maybe we can find a reason for certain aspects making a comp square, for instance)

3. identify how the composite aspect satisfies natal needs, symbolically (the theme) and if this is mutual (if they both have that need)

4. and the most interesting part, perhaps: what is the synastry/natals behind a composite pattern and what the result suggests.(like in my Minor Triangle example above). For example, I will look at my major composite Yod to see what his geometrical and symbolical origin is, to understand where it comes from and where it leads.

I'll follow with more examples.

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posted September 26, 2014 10:00 AM            

quote:

---

4. and the most interesting part, perhaps: what is the synastry/natals behind a composite pattern and what the result suggests.(like in my Minor Triangle example above). For example, I will look at my major composite Yod to see what his geometrical and symbolical origin is, to understand where it comes from and where it leads

---

Ah ya, then we come to midpoints *IN* a composite chart of which I suspect they might be even more relevant than just a single composite sextile. But that would depend on the geometry BEHIND the Compo sextile (the sextile might for example be a 'Bear Hug' or maybe a 'Same phase angle')

Why do I think midpoints *IN* a Composite could be more relevant?
That's because the underlying geometry of COMPO-midpoints consists of resonating (same) midpoint angles in both natals.

Example;

We have an exact Venus/Neptune COMPO sextile.
The underlying geometry?;

Natal;
- my Neptune trine my Venus (exact)
- his Neptune conj. his Venus (exact)

Synastry;
- my Neptune semi-square his Venus (1)
- his Neptune quindecile my Venus (1)

OK, NEXT EXAMPLE (midpoint this time);

The COMPO Saturn/Mars midpoint is opposite Jupiter exact.

Underlying geometry;

Natal;
- my Saturn/Mars midpoint semi-square Jupiter (exact)
- his Saturn/Mars midpoint semi-square Jupiter (exact)

Synastry;
- My Saturn/Mars midopint sextile his Jupiter (1)
- His Saturn/Mars midpoint sextile my Jupiter (1)

So, what do u think is more important? Or no, what FEELS more important geometrically?

posted September 26, 2014 11:16 AM            

OK, I began to research this translation. I chose the trine/sextile DW in synastry and its diverse translations in a composite aspect.

Y'all know the zodiac has 12 trines (if we consider whole sign) and 12 sextiles.

There are four possible combinations dependent on the phase we have:
x trine y
x sextile y

x trine y
y sextile x

y trine x
x sextile y

y trine x
y sextile x

Which gives 4 more additional permutations

Then we have an av. of 4 trines per sign (if we consider a DW orb of 7) and 5 sextiles per sign (if we consider a DW orb of 6 for the sextile)

Which gives us a large number of possible combinations

BUT
it suffices to focus on one trine (2 if we consider the phases) and apply all sextiles (24 if we consider the 2 phases)( for whole signs)

So I did start this verification with Sun in Aries trine Moon in Sag, Sun in Aries sextile Moon in Aqua and so on, and the conclusion so far, as pointed out by Ceri:

the nature of the aspect in the composite (it comes as square, sextile, trine, semisextile, quincunx, no aspect, minor etc) depends solely of the phase of the planets namely

the phase in the natals (for example they both have the same phase: Moon appl to Sun - Moon before Sun fr instance) and the phase between the two Suns and the two Moons.

Which I think it means the composite aspect is relevant (as a difference in interpretation) only if planetary phases in the natal and in synastry are relevant.

What do you think?

EDIT: sorry, I meant 12 trines
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posted September 26, 2014 12:16 PM            

I wonder if you have the same aspect in the same phase angle, if you are in it for the shared experience, having to go through the same stuff (in our case Mr Sag and me both have a Venus-Pluto-square ntaally, for both of it Venus is behind Pluto).

And if in the opposite phase, is it maybe more of a complementary theme?

WE do have that, too, synastrically with our Mars-NN-squares and Amor-NN-squares

his Amor and Mars are in Virgo, BEFORE my NN in Sag.
my Amor and Mars are in Sagittarius BEHIND his NN in Virgo

This ends up making for a conjunction of Amor and Mars with the NN in composite.

And doesn`T it make sense somehow?
squares to the NN indicating a skipped step, and in this instance we represent the same skipped step to each other (Mars-Amor), and thus it ends up on the NN in composite, showing what it is that is suposed to be given birth to . At lesat symbolically it makes sense to me.

posted September 26, 2014 12:42 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ceridwen:
Yes, I start thinking the phase of an aspect IS very important, though I do not know exactly how.

I wonder if you have the same aspect in the same phase angle, if you are in it for the shared experience, having to go through the same stuff (in our case Mr Sag and me both have a Venus-Pluto-square ntaally, for both of it Venus is behind Pluto).

And if in the opposite phase, is it maybe more of a complementary theme?

WE do have that, too, synastrically with our Mars-NN-squares and Amor-NN-squares

his Amor and Mars are in Virgo, BEFORE my NN in Sag.
my Amor and Mars are in Sagittarius BEHIND his NN in Virgo

This ends up making for a conjunction of Amor and Mars with the NN in composite.

And doesn`T it make sense somehow?
squares to the NN indicating a skipped step, and in this instance we represent the same skipped step to each other (Mars-Amor), and thus it ends up on the NN in composite, showing what it is that is suposed to be given birth to . At lesat symbolically it makes sense to me.

---

Very interesting indeed. Of course, it implies a huge research. Maybe Libran Dream could help with a program?

Anyway, Mir, you should like that, because it's a bit like the concepts of applying and separating. MIR!!!!! lol

I will check the same phase, opp phase aspects in our natal (involved in DW) and the "applying" aspects in synastry, to see what happens in the comp.

Orange, I think you must have opp phase trine and sextile, am I right? for the quincunx to occur (in your natals)

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