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Author Topic:   $$, and an interesting life
Padre35
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posted April 20, 2014 03:48 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Padre35     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

In Odette's thread the subject of money came up and it made me curious as to what ppl's views are on it.

Is money and things important? Nice things that one worked hard to afford?

Or is it more either doing without, or crafting your own things that matter?

My take is, money is a middle thing, it won't make one brighter, it won't replace love, it can purchase a life style normally one that others "tell" you that you want.

in that sense, money is an illusion unless one knows, for themselves, what they want out of life

Also think things like style, creativity, intellectual stimulation, do not require large amounts of $$, in fact i'd argue the opposite, as money distracts from such fundamental intuitions that mankind has born into us

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Sibyl
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posted April 20, 2014 04:03 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Sibyl     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Money is essential to me. It lets me follow my two passions,

travel and education.

It also takes away allot of stress.

It is easier to be healthy when you have money. Health food is much more expensive than fast food, and gyms can be expensive.

I do agree that it is important to learn the lesson of hard work. Everyone should experience it, whether they have rich parents or not. So I think rich people have to be extra careful about the values they instill in their children. Sadly many are not. I have seen money, greed and ambition make monsters of people time and time again. This is one reason why The Great Gatsby is one of my favorite books.

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7thGuardian
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posted April 20, 2014 04:03 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for 7thGuardian     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
This reminds me of a saying:

"A lot of people spend money they don't have - on things they don't need - while trying to impress people they don't like (or something along those lines)."

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Padre35
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posted April 20, 2014 04:23 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Padre35     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I thought of that Sibyl, it strikes me that even the lowest private in the military, making very little money, can and does both travel and has access to free education.

Education, in the internet age, is also a very different proposition then it once was which merely highlights perhaps money is but one avenue

Heck, I've learned basic pinyin Mandarin and Arabic for 2 bucks for used cassette tapes and a line into my laptop.."downside" is, no longer listen to music, so the Cyrus/Perry/Minaj era is passing me by..oh darn..

As for food, really disagree, fat cost $$ and is also unhealthy if over consumed, a simple, healthy diet, is actually very very inexpensive but American tastes are so used to fat/fried/processed, few well follow a 70 cents a meal diet..i'm far healthy now (lost 60 pds) then when I spent on mainstream food

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Sibyl
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posted April 20, 2014 04:44 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Sibyl     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Padre35:
I thought of that Sibyl, it strikes me that even the lowest private in the military, making very little money, can and does both travel and has access to free education.

Education, in the internet age, is also a very different proposition then it once was which merely highlights perhaps money is but one avenue

Heck, I've learned basic pinyin Mandarin and Arabic for 2 bucks for used cassette tapes and a line into my laptop.."downside" is, no longer listen to music, so the Cyrus/Perry/Minaj era is passing me by..oh darn..

As for food, really disagree, fat cost $$ and is also unhealthy if over consumed, a simple, healthy diet, is actually very very inexpensive but American tastes are so used to fat/fried/processed, few well follow a 70 cents a meal diet..i'm far healthy now (lost 60 pds) then when I spent on mainstream food


You obviously don't eat the same food I do lol. I'm not necessarily thinking carbs... Try finding cheap spirulina! I eat allot of weird (nutritionally awesome) stuff that's rather expensive.

In terms of education, I think it also really depends on what you want to do with it. I hardly think an employer would accept me as a self-taught diplomat/conflict expert. They want to see the credentials, and in our age of competition where education is becoming so common-place, you need to attend a very good school as well.

Languages are obviously different. I don't think people care much how you learned them as long as you did. It's fairly easy to demonstrate as well

I also have no wish to join the military. Despite studying war, I'm a pacifist. I think war is stupid stupid stupid.

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Padre35
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posted April 20, 2014 05:04 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Padre35     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Lots of protein, high quality carbs, all for 70 cents per meal.

Granted lentils and eggs and fresh bread is not everyone's cup of tea..

This topped off with self produced things like Apple Cidar Vinegar (organic of course) and wine, all it takes is very minimal effort which most, sadly, won't do, they'd rather be boring and just buy it

As for "good school", one can accumulate credits from wherever, and credit for life experience via taking CLEP tests, pay 600 dollars to Regents U and then apply to the "right" schools

As for the languages, it is soo simple, youtube is rife with language learning channels, your local thrift store or Goodwill will have casettes that are easily convertiable to digital formats (think audacity, cost..-0-) if that means not listening to pop music, or watching movies in silence, so be it


Unorthodox to be sure, it also makes for an interesting life rather than a by wrote life

As i read of another high powered bankster doing a head dive off of a 50 story building i question a bit the quest for extreme wealth

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Odette
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posted April 20, 2014 06:41 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Odette     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Money is important in as much as the presence or lack of it - affects your survival and the quality of your survival (or life).
Different people see different things as qualitatively significant.. Some would put more value on their ability to play a sport they love, others on travel, others on dining out at expensive restaurants etc There are multiple things that can make an individual's life more enjoyable... and the lack of certain things (hobbies, luxuries, good health) can make their life less worth living.

Money can also give an individual the power to improve other individuals lives - whether family/friends or through charity.

That sums up the importance from my pov. Others might also add social status to the list.

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Odette
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posted April 20, 2014 06:51 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Odette     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I like the points you made Padre. I think it depends on what works for each person.
If a person places a lot of value on attending a good University or traveling first class and enjoying themselves..as opposed being a private in the military --- then the options you listed wouldn't work for them.

Everyone is caught up in the pursuit of happiness.
But happiness means different things to different people - some more expensive than others.

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Kerosene
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posted April 20, 2014 07:52 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Kerosene     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Idk i would rather be miserable and rich vs miserable and poor.

but I would choose poverty if I'm emotionally satisfied vs being rich and unhappy.

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Xodian
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posted April 20, 2014 08:22 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Xodian     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Odette:
Money is important in as much as the presence or lack of it - affects your survival and the quality of your survival (or life).
Different people see different things as qualitatively significant.. Some would put more value on their ability to play a sport they love, others on travel, others on dining out at expensive restaurants etc There are multiple things that can make an individual's life more enjoyable... and the lack of certain things (hobbies, luxuries, good health) can make their life less worth living.

Money can also give an individual the power to improve other individuals lives - whether family/friends or through charity.

That sums up the importance from my pov. Others might also add social status to the list.


My sentiments exactly. Money is not the affirmative goal for most people; It is a means to an end and signifies freedom to live your life the way you want to live it. My end goal in aquiring wealth is not for the sake of aquiring wealth but rather a potential experience that I can have through it.

I am a VERY outdoorsy person and a lot of my activities (i.e. Skydiving, Kite Boarding, Rock Climbing, Motorsports, etc. etc.) require a fat pay-cheque.

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YoursTrulyAlways
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posted April 20, 2014 09:14 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for YoursTrulyAlways     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
So does simply coming home and taking my wife out to dinner. That alone is a $100+ affair if I'm lucky. If not, it's a $500 affair. And that's not even the finest of restaurants.

My son's college bill for just his first degree is already a quarter million dollars. Medical school will be the same and perhaps more. I can't give him the first class education he deserves without resources.

My sons play the piano. The piano befitting his skills cost as much as a modest house. Even then, I had to buy two placing each in its own part of the home so each can practice uninterrupted.

Vacations don't fall out of the sky. Those are five figure totals for a family of four.

I grew up myself modding RX7s, GTIs, WRX and other pocket rockets. Now that I'm old, I've moved on to larger things. Those cost a lot. I need resources for my pastime.

Other than that, I just love my wife. She points at anything behind a showcase and I'll bring it home the next day.

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Violets
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posted April 20, 2014 10:00 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Violets     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Kerosene:
Idk i would rather be miserable and rich vs miserable and poor.

but I would choose poverty if I'm emotionally satisfied vs being rich and unhappy.


Yeah, that pretty much sums it up, doesn't it?

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12muddy
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posted April 20, 2014 10:10 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for 12muddy     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Money is important, for survival n to fund my lifestyle - food, house, education, medication, hobbies, helping friends n loved ones....

Not having enough money may put you at the mercy of others.

Nice things... hmm I won't work really hard just so I can get nice things. We like to keep things as "simple" as we can...We don't own that many things, like our place is pretty "bare". Don't use designer stuff, have a cheap car n usually ride the bike to work when the weather is warm n dry. Fix things around the house ourselves....etc..

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Padre35
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posted April 20, 2014 10:18 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Padre35     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Kerosene:
Idk i would rather be miserable and rich vs miserable and poor.

but I would choose poverty if I'm emotionally satisfied vs being rich and unhappy.


Misery is a choice Kero

What would bother me, and drive me, is if i were miserable, and trapped, that would drive me to no end

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Padre35
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posted April 20, 2014 10:25 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Padre35     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Odette:
I like the points you made Padre. I think it depends on what works for each person.
If a person places a lot of value on attending a good University or traveling first class and enjoying themselves..as opposed being a private in the military --- then the options you listed wouldn't work for them.

Everyone is caught up in the pursuit of happiness.
But happiness means different things to different people - some more expensive than others.


Indeed, before i get accused of being a Hippster, those are merely qualities of happiness, going home to a house you despise, with ppl who are voids, is hellish to me

A home that is not moving, a family structure that moves ppl forward in life, be it via skills, or education, or spiritual progress no matter the money is a dead end

I say the difference is between being alive, or being dead, a poor person can have far more life in them then a wealthy person, and a wealthy person can have more life then a poor person

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Kerosene
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posted April 20, 2014 11:51 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Kerosene     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hmmmm that's optimistic and a cliche lol.

It's not a choice, some people truly have miserable personal lives, it's kind of obnoxious to say otherwise lol
Especially those who live average lives like myself and probably most people on here.
Some people go through many hurdles at least financial security could make it a lot easier.

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Padre35
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posted April 21, 2014 01:13 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Padre35     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Kerosene:
Hmmmm that's optimistic and a cliche lol.

It's not a choice, some people truly have miserable personal lives, it's kind of obnoxious to say otherwise lol
Especially those who live average lives like myself and probably most people on here.
Some people go through many hurdles at least financial security could make it a lot easier.


How is that interesting tho?

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Violets
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posted April 21, 2014 01:26 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Violets     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
It's kind of a hard call to make sometimes; my husband and I are in the midst of trying to sort this type of thing out for ourselves.

We're not wealthy, but we're well off. We live within our means, unlike most people in the states. We're not horribly in debt (student loans don't count, right? ), and we don't rake up our credit card, generally speaking.
We undoubtedly buy things we don't need, but we could easily do without some of that.

Being poor can suck really badly if outside circumstances aren't decent (no resources where you live, car culture where you have to have money to buy a car to get to work but can't find a job to buy a car, fix the car when it breaks down, put gas and oil in it, or living in a violent neighborhood, not being able to grow your own food, whatever).

But I certainly don't think that wealth and social status are the end all be all in life.

I care about both about as much as I care about food. I despise cooking, I don't like to be in the kitchen unless I'm going for a cup of coffee. I eat because I have to in order to survive, and I try to eat things that will nourish my body and mind properly, as opposed to crappy fast food, pesticide/hormone laden or GMO stuff.

I buy and prepare very healthy food for my son, but I confess that I cook as little as humanly possible. And we don't use a microwave or paper towels (miscellaneous tidbit for everyone, in case you're interested).

That's pretty much how I feel about money. It's necessary in our society, but try to go about obtaining it in a way that is nourishing, not depleting.

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Odette
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posted April 21, 2014 02:00 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Odette     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
If you just mean 'interesting' - anyone can have an interesting life, depending on what they see as interesting.

Actually I've never known anyone with an uninteresting life... but I have Pisces Merc so I find everyone's story interesting.

I don't think wealth or poverty translates into - interesting or uninteresting.

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rajji
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posted April 21, 2014 05:19 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for rajji     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Poor People Are Happy

SWPL: “Money is the root of all evil. It doesn’t bring happiness.”

Roosh: “Please explain.”

SWPL: “I visited Bolivia recently and did a tour of the salt flats. On the way over we stopped at a village that was extremely poor. I felt bad at first, but then these little kids ran up to me with the biggest smiles I’ve ever seen in life. They were covered in dirt and grime, even on their faces, and were wearing tattered clothing, but I swear, they were the happiest human beings I’ve met.”

R: “Did the kids want anything from you?”

SWPL: “Yes, they stuck their hands out. I gave them some chocolate.”

R: “Did the chocolate satisfy them?”

SWPL: “Did it ever! They were so happy, ripping open the packaging and shoving it down their little mouths. It was amazing how such a simple item gave them so much pleasure. If I gave you chocolate you probably wouldn’t even be half as happy.”

R: “Is there anything else you could have given them that would have made them even happier?”

SWPL: “Um, I don’t know.”

R: “How about new pairs of pants?”

SWPL: “I guess. Their pants did seem old.”

R: “How about if you constructed a new house with air conditioning. Would that have made them happier than your chocolates?”

SWPL: “You’re just being silly now.”

R: “I’m asking you hypothetically. Of course I know you are not able to build a new house for them.”

SWPL: “Okay then, yes, I guess making them a house with air conditioning would make them happier than chocolates. It was mighty hot and they didn’t even have fans.”

R: “How about if you gave them $10,000. They could use that to build a new house, eat for a year, and buy as much chocolate as they want. Would that make them happy?”

SWPL: “Yes. I think $10,000 would make anyone happier.”

R: “But you said they don’t need money to be happy.”

SWPL: “Now you’re twisting my words. I said that without money they are capable of being more happy than people who are richer than them.”

R: “Are you richer than them?”

SWPL: “Yes.”

R: “Are those kids, and by extension, their families, happier than you?”

SWPL: “Yes, I believe so.”

R: “What is the reason that they are happier than you?”

SWPL: “Because they are better able to appreciate the little things in life that we, in our fast-paced capitalist lifestyle, fail to appreciate.”

R: “Do you want to be happier than you are now?”

SWPL: “Yes, of course.”

R: “So when do you plan on moving to the Bolivian dirt village?”

SWPL: “Don’t be stupid.”

R: “Why wouldn’t you move if it would make you happier?”

SWPL: “I can’t. I have my family and friends here. I have responsibilities.”

R: “What responsibilities?”

SWPL: “I have student loans.”

R: “The student loan companies will chase you to Bolivia?”

SWPL: “I can’t just move there!”

R: “So you don’t want to be happier than you are now?”

SWPL: “I want to, but the culture is different. I would have to learn Spanish.”

R: “Learning a language is a small price to pay for being happy. I’m sure with even your meager savings you can live a year in the dirt village without having to work.”

SWPL: “But… the village doesn’t have internet.”

R: “You need internet to be happy?”

SWPL: “I’ve gotten used to it. Look, if I was born in the dirt village I would have been happier, but since I was born in America, I can’t just go live there.”

R: “Are things like plumbing, air conditioning, supermarkets, and clean clothes important to you?”

SWPL: “Yes.”

R: “It is to me, too. I wouldn’t live in the dirt village. It would make me less happy.”

SWPL: “See that’s what you don’t understand. It makes them happier. They are used to the village and can appreciate living with less stuff.”

R: “If you gave them a choice between living in the dirt village and swapping lives with you in the suburbs, with its fast-paced capitalist lifestyle, which would they pick?”

SWPL: “They would want to live here, but it’s because they don’t know better. They would wind up being less happy than in the dirt village.”

R: “They wouldn’t be happier with plumbing, internet, and less dirt?”

SWPL: “Okay, well, maybe a little happier at first. Then they would get bored.”

R: “Being bored with something, or taking it for granted, reduces your happiness levels so that you long for poverty?”

SWPL: “I don’t know.”

R: “How much time did you spend with the dirt children?”

SWPL: “About ten minutes.”

R: “And during that time you were able to evaluate their needs, their desires, and then conclude that they enjoyed living in dirt housing with the most basic of sustenance?”

SWPL: “Their smiles were very real to me.”

R: “I have no doubt that they were, but if I saw a person of wealth 1000 times greater than that of myself, my smile would be genuine as well as I stuck my hand out. I’d hope that that person would pity me and give me just a tiny percentage of his wealth so that I could get a taste of his more comfortable and pleasurable lifestyle.”

SWPL: “They don’t need that lifestyle.”

R: “Do you? Do you need the iPhone that you keep staring at every couple of minutes?”

SWPL: “I mean…”

R: “Is it possible that you interpreted their smiles incorrectly, and that they are indeed living a life which, had you lived it, would be close to suffering?”

SWPL: “I may have misinterpreted things.”

R: “You are not the first person to tell me that poor people are happy. Do you have an idea of why this is?”

SWPL: “I don’t.”

R: “It’s a self-defense mechanism.”

SWPL: “Explain.”

R: “It is inherently unfair that you have 1000 times more than another human being who, through the bad fortune of having been born in the wrong place at the wrong time, will never have a comfortable life that you take for granted, no matter how hard they work. If in your travels you were to see this and accept it for what it is, you would break down in tears at the horrible plight of many billions of people on this earth, but when you convince yourself—in fact delude yourself—into believing that poor people who live on $1 a day are happier than you, you are able to push away this realization so that your travels are uninterrupted by the cruelness of humanity, so that you can upload photos of dirt children on Facebook and receive the likes from your friends who comment on how happy the children seem to appear.”

SWPL: “I didn’t think of it that way.”

R: “If you were unable to trick yourself into thinking that hungry children are happier, how do you think that would change your travel plans?”

SWPL: “I would stop visiting poor countries, I guess.”

R: “Or you would just close your eyes to the poverty, as I have. Poverty is not your fault, but spreading the idea that poverty is happiness, or is somehow romantic, is an insult to those who are experiencing it.”

SWPL: “But I feel guilty that I have so much more than those kids.”

R: “Do you really?”

SWPL: “Yes. I wish they weren’t so poor.”

R: “How much money do you have saved up?”

SWPL: “Only $2,000. It’s my emergency fund.”

R: “Poor people live in perpetual emergency. Donate that money to a poor village. Let it go to their water and food. Do it now if you care about them!”

SWPL: “I can’t. I need it.”

R: “They need it, too.”

SWPL: “But I worked hard for it!”

R: “I thought you wished they weren’t so poor.”

SWPL: “Yeah but…”

R: “Do you still think poor people are happy?”

SWPL: “Not really.”

R: “Are you going to do anything about their plight?”

SWPL: “No.”

R: “And neither am I. Now go forth and continue your search for happiness. Work hard and pay off those student loans. Maybe soon you can afford another vacation.”


The above was inspired from the Bolivian chapter in the book A Dead Bat In Paraguay.

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rajji
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posted April 21, 2014 05:20 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for rajji     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Money is not the root of all evil, the love of money is the root of all evil.

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YoursTrulyAlways
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posted April 21, 2014 08:18 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for YoursTrulyAlways     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The **lack** of money is the root of all evil.

There is no honor in being broke.

You guys say rich people aren't happy. Broke people aren't happy either. I tell you what... rich people are **happier** than broke people.

I have no debt and have no credit cards except for a pay-as-you-go Amex. I'll make sure my kid graduates with no debt and a home fully paid for. You bet that's a good thing.

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Sibyl
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posted April 21, 2014 08:26 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Sibyl     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by YoursTrulyAlways:
You guys say rich people aren't happy. Broke people aren't happy either. I tell you what... rich people are **happier** than broke people.

World happiness indexes would indicate differently.

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YoursTrulyAlways
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posted April 21, 2014 08:28 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for YoursTrulyAlways     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Sibyl:
World happiness indexes would indicate differently.

Really. Statistics compiled by whom? The socialists in Scandinavia who tax their people at an 80% rate??

I'm going to be the ugly greedy market capitalist fat ass here.

If I'm going to be miserable, I much rather wear Armani, carry Louis Vuitton and ride in the back seat of a Rolls Royce, having had a satisfying meal and sipping champagne.

_________________


I'm not here to be politically correct and I don't give two craps what anyone thinks.

The only kids I know that say toys suck are those locked out of the toy store.


__________________


Helping others through donations is my life mission. My cash donations alone each year are substantial. I can't help others by being broke.

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Sibyl
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posted April 21, 2014 08:48 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Sibyl     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by YoursTrulyAlways:
Really. Statistics compiled by whom? The socialists in Scandinavia who tax their people at an 80% rate??

That is a completely untrue statement. None of the Scandinavian countries tax above 50%. The value-added tax is also the same as many EU countries.

And no, it is not compiled by Scandinavians but by the New Economics Foundation. They don't even score high on it (as highly developed countries). The Happy Planet Index is a measure of life satisfaction. The highest scoring country for 2012 was Costa Rica.

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