posted August 08, 2006 02:51 AM              

People like that are what give religion a bad rap. I'll tell you what, I've heard many many dozens of masses by just as many different priests/preachers/pastors, and of all those over MANY years, only TWO have a good enough grasp on it to make me listen at all. The thing they both have in common is they present the Word as if it were a LIVING BREATHING ACTIVE entity. It doesn't take a great leap of faith, really, and it doesn't require you memorize a bunch of verses. All it requires is that you jump on board this fast-moving train. Yes, I said FAST -- and, it's on schedule, trust me.

Those type of people you describe annoy me not so much because of their ignorance, but because they detract away from where the focus should be. They think if they do certain things, it buys them tokens to Heaven. Not true. You embark because you are willing to be open to love, and love, with all your heart. Ain't no perfection in a human being open to love.

posted August 08, 2006 07:27 PM            

I have seen this with Politics, Muslims, Athiests, Agnostics, Astrologers, Christians, Wiccans, Higher ed advocates and those that believe education is stupid.

I have dealt with idiots that tell me I am not open-minded because I have a science background and scientist peers that tell me I shouldn't study astrology or shamanism. I have had fellow Christian friends question my ethics for being in science and liberals tell me I should be flogged for being a minority that is also a Republican.

Who is right? Who are we to tell someone what they can and can't believe and better yet who in the hell are we to tell them they are wrong for a belief?

Do I sit and look down on someone because they didn't graduate high school and they are a Christian because I have two advanced degrees and I believe in metaphysics? Am I better than that person? Hell NO!!!! Do I tell my Father, a Spanish / American Indian Catholic that didn't graduate from high-school that is less than me because he picked his a$$ up, went to college, served his country..etc.... How can I? The man retired at more than 3 times my current salary.

Why do we care so much about what our Neighbor does? Why can't we just say "Hey, thanks for the input, but I believe in something else, if you can't accept that, then let's not speak again".

If you find you can't say that, then prepare for the debate and remember one thing "While one is looking down on their neighbor, think about the other neighbor looking down on you".

posted August 09, 2006 02:51 PM            

You are more than welcome to use my words. I have learned the hardway the art of being somewhat diplomatic (hee hee.... not easy for us Archer's now it is?)

Mystic,

You hit the nail on the head about the pc stuff. Had this been about another religion I don't think people would have tolerated the reference to people being friggen dumb. In our day and age it seems common practice to beat up on Christians and to rule all things Christian as evil.

In some respects I can understand the anger and frustration. I myself had a very conservative Christian mother than would often force us into Bible study, youth group, Sunday School and so forth. I understand she was trying to build a foundation of morality, but it took me living on my own for a few years, seeing how people live without morality, to learn what applied to me.

Although I am not a conservative Christian I am conservative AND Christian, among - like you put so well a hodge podge of other things.

I honestly don't understand how people that say they are open and compassionate to the Mother Earth, Buddha or Mohammod, get off on then wanting to hate all Christians. Do they really believe Wicca, Metaphysics or even Shamanism would have been tolerated by the Buddhist of Muslim religion? Killing witches was a practice that was prevalent in the Apache (my tribe) culture. Too add insult to injury anyone practicing magick that was not sanctioned by the tribe and deemed to be evil, would be slaughtered, buried face down (to keep them from finding the creator) and then a huge slab of rock would be pinned over their heads to prevent their soul from leaving.

Many American Indian tribes killed witches, but I don't see too many people blasting our ways because "it's not cool".

posted August 11, 2006 01:53 AM              

------------------
Gemini/Cancer Cusp, Cancer ascendant, Taurus moon *29, Taurus venus, Libra mars
*----------*----------*
Things base and vile, holding no quantity,
Love can transpose to form and dignity.
Love looks not with the eye, but with the mind,
And therefore is winged Cupid painted blind.

posted August 11, 2006 05:57 AM              

I'm sure she'd have had the same reaction to anyone offering unwanted preaching against astrology, be they Buddhist, Hindu, Apache, Wiccan or whatever.

I am curious to see you tribal ID card Pidaua. In your pictures, you look whiter than me. Perhaps you could scan it in for us.

According to my Native American friends this is a very popular fantasy among white people.

Apache is the second most popular tribe to name, the first being Cherokee, since everyone has heard of them.

Was your grandmother or great-grandmother an "Indian Princess?" Or perhaps your grandfather was the Chief?

posted August 11, 2006 09:06 AM              

>>>That is unfair.
Many folks are part Native Amereican but do not look it.
I look Irish, but am not at all!
But I am 1/4 Native American. No I do not have a tribal ID.
But have been counted amongst the Cherokee/Cherosaw on both Census records and as a child in a school in Southern Georgia.
And no..I am no Indian Princess.
Nor was my ancestor a chief. In fact he was a murderer.
Why? He killed two white men for raping his
1/2 white wife.
Then he was shot to death in a prison escape.
I do not need to see pidaua's PROOF to believe her claim.

I have Barbadoan black ancestors too.
But you would not know that by looking at me either.

posted August 11, 2006 01:45 PM              

Heh Heh.

I find it funny how a Native American woman like Pidua can even be a Republican.

It's very odd.

posted August 11, 2006 07:56 PM            

Did you see the pic of my brother? Huh.. I wonder where the white came from.

So tell me, are you now going to ask for the card from other's on this site that are also American Indian?

It isn't lore what Apache did to witches and what other tribes did to witches, it's the truth.

What's the matter Berry.... did you re-invent yourself from another poster that couldn't handle LL?

LMAO.. you're a joke and the only other person that backs you on this is Venusian Love, the person that has been banned over 8 times.

Quite frankly your response is incredibly out of line not to mention a bit hyper-sensitive for the content of this thread. What exactly set you off? The fact that you aren't all knowing and won't get away with bashing on Christians or that I made a true statment and you really can't refute it?

______________________

For other more intelligent people that have posted on this thread-

My post was not inflammatory towards ANY religion- it was, in fact, a statment or discussion about people from various backgrounds and religion. When someone decides that one religion is bad or all people that belong to one religion should be considered idiots that person only suceeds in breeding hate.

Every religion has stupid people, every religion has hateful people- there are some religions I would never join, but I don't hate the people- although Satanists would tend to keep me from wanting to get to know them.

If someone cannot tolerate being questioned then that person is actually close-minded.

PS Berry.. My family is Chiricahua and Mescalero. No one in my family is an Indian Princess. If you had half a brain you would know we didn't have that kind of crap in our tribe.

Your tone is insulting to all people that are American Indian and is quite racist in context. As though you have some authority as to deem "who" is and "who" isn't.

And yes, I also have Cherokee blood as my mother's side is from Oklahoma and Kansas. My maternal great-grandmother was a full blood- my Uncle carries his card. LOL...

Keep trying worm.. soon you'll offend more of tribal people here.

posted August 11, 2006 08:12 PM              

Because I notice you only bring up your "Indian Bloodline" when you are bashing Indians.

It seems to me you claim to be Indian to get away with making racist comments.

quote:

---

pidaua: If someone cannot tolerate being questioned then that person is actually close-minded.

---

I guess that makes you closed minded since you cannot tolerate being questioned.

How about a little common courtesy? I'm pretty sure you could be banned for the name calling.

As I suspected, you have not one shred of evidence. Not a birth certificate, marriage certificate, death certificate, Tribal ID card, Registry, Census Record, nothing.

Native american ancestry is an extreemly common family myth; and it is your responsibility to thoroughly research the issue of Indian ancestry before concluding that what are probably family myths are true.

posted August 12, 2006 03:23 AM            

I have a very simple ... um.. I won't call it a rant.. it's a.............
hmmmmmm.........
it's a pet peeve.

Whether one is Christian, spiritual, gnostic, religious.. whatever they may be.....
If one prays..... that is a lovely gesture.

Praying, positive thinking, sending it up to the Universe, Giving it to God/dess. There are prayer groups and wonderful healings have taken place all over the world.
I do believe in instances it is miraculous.
Here is my beef.
The people who believe in God, obviously want to give him props, right?
Like.. "Yay God! He makes miracles"
Yet, If something great happens, and you give thanks, or express the wondrous nature of the Universe/God... rather than saying, "Yes, God did it." and letting it be out like that.....
I hear, more often than not, from well intentioned Christians... "Yes, we prayed."
So, they are not saying "We prayed, God did it" They are not mentioning God in any sentance/sense...... they are saying.. Yes, I had people pray fro you, I prayed that this would happen.
So they are then isolating themselves as the methoid of delivery, ignoring the divine, ignoring the humans involved... it was , in a sense, glory hogging opportunity to them.
Not "God is great" But "I am Great."

posted August 12, 2006 05:50 AM              

What kind of Indian tries to justify the Trail of Tears?

If you are an Indian, then you're a traitor to your people.

I read LG's post. She didn't approach these religious fanatics, they approached her.

She was minding her own business, like they should have been.

LG has the right to defend herself from harassment.

posted August 12, 2006 12:48 PM            

Yours was a very thoughtful post, although I disagree with the following:

quote:

---

While you didn't march into his living room to try to save his soul, throw the guy a bone for caring in his own way. Next time, what's wrong with saying, "Bob, thanks so much for caring enough to share, and if I ever have any questions about Chrisitanity, you're the first person I'll ask."

---

posted August 14, 2006 02:10 PM            

" I question you for a very good reason.
Because I notice you only bring up your "Indian Bloodline" when you are bashing Indians.

It seems to me you claim to be Indian to get away with making racist comments"

I have never made a racist comment about Indians or used my blood line in that way. IN FACT the only jerk that has accused me as such, was IQHunk and you seem to write alot like him. So you are either him or one of his many female admirers that can't seem to tear their lips away from his feet.

I speak the truth, regardless if that paints being an American Indian in a bad light. I am SICK and tired of people, especially rich white naive people, that sit back and make American Indian's sound like a bunch of peace pipe-smoking shaman that never committed an atrocity.

The only way the tribes, specifically my tribe has started to succeed was go GET OFF the BS that we are such a sad lot that will never amount to anything because people were mean to us. NO.. we sent graduates to college, built resorts and casinos and used that money to keep building up the reservations.

Many of my friends- San Carlos and White Mountain, won't even consider the old ways let alone practice any type of pass the peace pipe tradition that YOU types seem to think we all do.

Instead, they hold down normal construction jobs, play pool at the local bar and drive foreign cars (and they refuse to live on the reservation).

You can call me racist all you want, you can call me "white" (which is a freaking joke since I am absolutely brown and without tanlines or the benefit of a tanning salon). If anyone is a racist it is someone like you that would judge someone on their skin color, demand they scan a Federal ID card over the internet (yeah that's brilliant you complete idiot) just so they can prove your theory of their being racist.

No IQ.. or IQ's little buddy, I don't think you'll trap me into this one. I knew I recognized you.. funny how you just showed up in May.

Loser but hey at least we know who you are..

posted August 14, 2006 02:16 PM            

Sorry Leyla.. once again, I have NEVER bashed on the trail of tears you little idiot. In fact, I did a major research project on it and John Ross.

LeyLa you have problems with me because you flaunted how much you love to sleep around but you hate when people judge you for it. Too bad, like I said some people will judge. You then turned around and justified why a woman should use a man for money, gifts and free dinners- but that it was wrong for a man to use a woman for sex.

You can't have it both ways.

Just because you can't look at yourself in the mirror and you need use sex in order to get what you want, don't start chatising those of us with morals and intellect. LMAO...

Oh and once again BS (IQhunk) I will not scan a birth certificate, license, tribal card or any other ID for your review. That request would allow everyone to see my full real name, ID numbers etc... ONLY a fool would request someone to produce that and only fool would do it.

As far as my lineage, you are entitled to your opinion and I can laugh at it all I want. I'll make sure to inform my family, specifically my 92 year old Full Blood grandma in September that YOU have qualified us and NOT being Indian.

LMAO... too funny...

posted August 14, 2006 03:48 PM            

Thanks for the response . She sounds alike like him though- he was one of the only people that actually used the very outdated term "Indian" to describe American Indian / Native Americans. I am of the old way of using AI (as are many of my AI friends).

I felt that her reply was unusual in the amount of anger and venom is displayed, especially when I did not single out any race whatsoever.

Then again, I may have said something blunt to her in a past post that she took offense to. As I said before some people will always have a bone to pick with someone based on past exchanges. Leyla is a perfect example and when ever one person seems to come out strong against something I have said or attacked, she is right there with them, like one of the green monkeys on the Wizard of Oz ready to to the masters bidding LMAO... Seriously though- I really did have to laugh when I read she said I had someone come out against the Trail of Tears.

Anyway- it is always nice to see rationale people here. My brother and husband both had a good chuckle at me being called "white".

~Pidaua

***Edited to add - Nah.. I know who she reminds me of... another Aquarian that came on the scene and started accusing me of getting jealous and posting some really weird stuff in a thread where she and IQ had a dialog. When I finally found the thread, I saw that I was not even a poster on it nor did I know of her or him. She went bullestic and when IQ accused me of advocating the death of American Indians she agreed- without any knowledge.

posted August 14, 2006 05:26 PM            

Takes me back to the title of the thread.....

------------------
~
What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world is immortal"~