posted June 18, 2008 03:49 PM         

Is that really the issue here? That I'm young and so i must be inevitably reckless and selfish and only after someone that i can't have for the fun of it?

My God, you are sickly mistaken. You are truly oblivious.

I don't love him for being older. I don't love him for being married. I don't love him for being unattainable. I don't love him for having a family. I love him because he is necessary to me.

Because he is my own self, split down the middle.

posted June 18, 2008 04:02 PM         

My Venus is opposite Neptune...

posted June 18, 2008 06:24 PM         

I have Venus in Cancer, opposite Neptune in Capricorn.

He has Venus in Pisces, trine Neptune in Scorpio.

My Venus trines his Neptune. His Moon, Valentine and Lust in Cancer conjuncts my Venus, and opposes My Neptune. His Aries Sun also squares my Neptune.

We hide things from each other? We lie to one another?... We idealize?

I idealize? It is MY Venus that is trining his Neptune after all.. so i must be the one under the wrong impression...

posted June 19, 2008 12:34 PM         

When I read this forum the first time I was so enraged that I wrote what I had to say in a Draft Email since posting privileges aren't granted immediately. So, when I actually did copy and paste it on here I had had time to calm down.

I'm calm now, and so let me please explain what I have to say in plain terms.

Being a wife and mother, I am looking at this situation from a different point of view than you are as the person all of this is "happening to". I am looking at like a wife would. Like his wife would. If I found out that my significant other was falling in love with someone so young, ... or not even falling in love, just developing a meaningful relationship with anyone else, it would kill me.

Others have said it on this thread that there are two ways to look at this situation: objectively, in synastry terms OR subjectively, through personal feelings.

I have had time to think about some things since I last logged on here. I thought about what I would do if I realized that my partner and I weren't made for one another. If she found someone whom she knew undoubtedly was the One for her, or if I found someone whom I knew was the real deal. To tell you the truth, I wouldn't want to know. I wouldn't want her to tell me. I surely wouldn't tell her.

In my opinion, there are more important things than soulmates. There is more on the line than fulfilling what your heart wants, or what it needs. True Love is beautiful, don't mistake me, but when you have built up a life with someone else, and made a vow to be completely committed to one another no matter what, it seems selfish to just throw that away because you've found your other half.

I know basic synastry. My knowledge does not go past planets, so all of this information about asteroids is beyond me. What I am saying is that he may very well be "your own self split down the middle" but... that doesn't matter. Soulmates don't always end up together. And I feel that in this case, they shouldn't.

If he is in love with you, I hope he doesn't tell you. I hope he doesn't tell you for his wife's sake, for his kids' sake, for YOUR sake, and definitely for his sake. You keep saying that all you want to know is if he does or if he doesn't. Well, did you ever think about how you would feel if he did? If he told you, how that would change things? You wouldn't be satisfied at all. You'd want to be with him more than ever. More than possible. And having the knowledge that he feels the same way, that he wants to unite as well would drive you mad.

I can forsee your future, I can guess how this story would end. He'd tell you, eventually, that he is indeed in love with you. And as you are hellbent on being with him, you'd allow yourself to live in misery. You'd push away the potential suitors who would come in and out of your life. You'd bind your heart to him for good, and refuse to experience anyone else. You'd ruin your life, Meta4, for this man. You would resent this love, this relationship, this person, deep deep down.

I think that's what Lara and I meant by this love being selfish. Not selfish as in you just want to be greedy with him, but selfish in that you both are hurting more people than yourselves. And not that's it's ok to hurt yourselves, or each other, but in a way, it's inevitable that you each suffer. It's not inevitable that anyone else suffers though. And it wouldn't be fair to make anyone else hurt if it can be prevented.

posted June 19, 2008 08:17 PM         

Most of the opinions have been expressed here and I agree with some people here and disagree a lot with others.

Its been said, but I'll tell it straight again to you Meta. Never ever cut lunch. Don't listen to the astrology here and don't listen to the soulmates stuff. Soulmates or not, you never ever cut lunch. If you do, you'll lower the price of MY ovaries and I won't appreciate it. This is the number 1 unwritten law with us girls. Not to mention that it is highly immoral for many reasons too....

The simple thing is that you just have to get away from this guy. If it means changing jobs/environments then you have to. Minimise if not stop all contact if possible. Being around him will make it worse. If it is meant to be, it will happen when the situation is calm and resolves itself some way. The ball is in his court. By being around him, you are in effect putting pressure on him by making him think unclearly and you are also giving him kudos. Break away from him; time will make the decisions for you.

And here is my own personal rule when it comes to love; THINK WITH YOUR HEAD NOT YOUR HEART. A person with a stronger head will always have self-control and will always outwit and outplay and outlast in love. I have resisted so many love pits/traps with my head, its my strength and I'm proud of my behaviour because of it. I suggest you do the same. Strong moral judgment and thought is key to keep you upright here. Never ever also reveal your feelings towards someone either when in your situation, it clouds the situation and gives firepower.

This is a problem that is way beyond astrology. Don't use astrology here. Think with your head, rationalise.

posted June 19, 2008 10:04 PM         

Sorry, that was kinda rude of me.

But anyways, Meta, I was on another Forum trying to find out more stuff about this asteroid stuff and I found some stuff to help you.

According to MagiAstrology, the asteroid JUNO isn't an indicator of Marriage. It's a "Mistress" placement. An indicator of an affair. You guys have Juno conjunct Juno, Double Whammy of Juno conjunct Ascendant, Double Whammy of Juno opposite Mars, and basically just a boat load of Juno placements between you two.

Also, it says that CHIRON is the Marriage placement. You guys have Double Whammy of Venus trine Chiron, Double Whammy Moon/Chiron, Double Whammy Pluto/Chiron and another whole boat load of Chiron placements.

At least I think that those are accurate. Some of those placements might be too wide to count... double check anyways...

BUT, MY POINT IS, you should definitely look at allll of the different aspects you have between his/your Juno and his/your Chiron. You should find out what is more meaningful, and whether you have more "Marriage" indicators or "Mistress" indicators. This could really help I think.

posted June 24, 2008 08:53 PM         

I thank you for your refined explanation. I find that you make much more sense when i'm not reading your post with bitterness in my body.

As for what you said...

Well, I understand WHY you would want him not to tell me. I do. And in many ways i appreciate it. And you're right... me knowing would not satisfy me. As much as right now it feels like it would, inevitably, it simply wouldn't suffice. BUT, even though i can rationalize and tell myself that i know that in the end it would earnestly make it worse, i can't help but want to scratch this itch. I can't help it.

And, you're also right that were i to find out, i wouldn't want anyone else. Never. No way. I'd shackle myself to him, and ruin any almost lover's dreams of being with me.

You're right a lot. Are you a Scorpio? My Ascendant is in Scorpio and I am actually astonished by your description of how i would react, because it was quite accurate...

Scorpio08, Thanks for telling me about the Juno Chiron stuff. I actually looked on a couple other threads and gathered that Valentine, Amor, Isis, Osiris, Eros, and Psyche were extremely important when it comes to Soulmates as well. I know that we have connections between all of these asteroids.

I think there is an Eros/Psyche trine, Isis/Osiris conjunction, and... hmm... i don't have the chart in front of me, so i'm going off of memory... I can't think of the rest now, but yes, i know that there are "a boat load" of aspects between our "Mistress" and "Marriage" asteroids.

posted June 24, 2008 09:20 PM         

quote:

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i can't help but want to scratch this itch. I can't help it.

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posted June 26, 2008 02:54 AM         

I just want to say this: I believe in true love. And I also believe we all have a right to it!

In the interest of full disclosure, I must say that I am a woman who has never been married and who has no children. That being said, I think it's pretty unfair that so many people are chastising Meta-4 about her feelings for this man. Maybe you come to this discussion from the point of view of a wife and/or mother and you are understandably defending that position. But who are you to say that two people who have possibly found true love should not be together? (I'm not saying that's necessarily the case here, just talking hypothetically.)

I really do have the highest respect for the institution of marriage, and I USED to believe it's noble to stay together for "the sake of the children". But I've seen FIRSTHAND the devastating effect this can actually have on people's lives.

My brother has been married to his wife for over 20 years, and he knew before he married her that they weren't right for each other. He told me he was hoping someone would stop the wedding! But, it happened and they have stayed together for the sake of the children. He's never cheated on her, but he's waiting for the day when the kids are grown and he can leave. (Btw, that "day" is today...my niece, his youngest, just graduated from HS this evening.)

My sister-in-law is a really nice person and I'm sure my brother loves her in a way. But she is not his true love. And HE is not HER true love. Meanwhile, by staying together he has wasted 20 years of HER life, not just his. She could have found someone to love her like SHE deserves to be loved, too. And the kids...they have felt the strain. My niece has said things like "my parents should never have gotten married and had kids"...essentially wishing she had never been born.

Let me say that this marriage is not abusive in any way. And I've seen times when my brother and his wife have seemed happy and affectionate toward each other. But ulimately, it's just not the right relationship for either of them. There are really no bad guys in this story, believe me. It's just sad. I can't help but feel that if my brother had left a long time ago, maybe they could all have found true happiness. I really hope, if he does leave, that they all eventually will.

I know for a fact that this is a common scenerio...I've heard it time and again. And I've asked the people involved: if they could do it all over again, would they have stayed together, and the answer has always been a resounding NO, they would not have stayed.

I guess my point is: don't be so quick to come down on the side of "duty" and not love. I believe it is one of the most important occupations of our lives to find that person with whom we can be TRULY happy. Why the heck are we on this planet, if not for this purpose? And to smugly tell someone who may have found this love: "too bad, you can't be with them because you've already signed this piece of paper" is, to me, an unjust adherence to man's law, not that of the universe.

posted June 26, 2008 03:50 AM         

He might be in love his wife. She might be his soul mate!
One-sided 'anything' is dangerous.

posted June 26, 2008 05:37 AM         

I absolutely agree with you.

Lara,

Yes, we don`t know HIS side of the story and HIS true feelings, so it`s dangerous to judge here.

But I think this discussion has become a bit more than just discussing Meta`s "case"; it`s become more a general discussion.

posted June 26, 2008 03:49 PM         

"She might be his soul mate!"

First of all, he has told me in his OWN words that he does not believe her to be his soulmate. That's not wishful thinking. It's fact.

And if you look at their synastry, it can be seen that astrologically they are not. I do believe Venusdeindia stated that they may care about each other but they were not past life partners.

Thank you, Purple, for what you said. I know that i've only been getting negative responses from a few, but that doesn't mean that they hurt any less.

I am not a criminal here. I just happened to fall in love with someone i CAN'T have.

I respect that some of you are looking at this through the eyes of a mother/wife, but to say that you wouldn't pursue, or desire inconceivably to pursue something with someone who you found such an astounding connection with would simply be a lie. You would. Whether you actually would act on it or not is another question, but inside your guts you would be struggling just like i am.

So you can put me down, and be completely self-righteous, but until you have walked a mile in my shoes, don't you dare point a presumptuous finger at me.

I didn't post any of this information on here because i wanted pity, or attention. I merely wanted astrological opinion. Got it?

Good.

posted June 26, 2008 05:28 PM         

Do with it as you will... you have your own mind so either take the advice or ignore it!

I will not, however, be a scapegoat for your personal anger toward your own situation... the dynamic you are now displaying does tend to lean toward this observation and if i'm wrong "just ignore it".

If l met a married man with kids (and l have done) whom l had a huge affinity with l definitely would NOT pursue it, so you see it is possible to have walked in your shoes after all and resist the incredible draw that pulls you in.

The mind is a powerful tool and you need to harness it and pull yourself out of this bind now. No other choice, agree?

posted June 26, 2008 05:41 PM         

Because he is my own self, split down the middle.

These comments l find strange. No one is 'necessary' to you other than yourSELF. If you feel that he is half of you then maybe you need to fulfill the whole of you so you don't feel only half person!

People are not half of us, we are complete as one.

Why do you think that in numerology the numbers go 1-9 and then 0. The '0' (or whole) is pertaining to the SELF!!!!!

You are right on one thing though - l am totally oblivious to your motivation in all of this.

You have mistaken my posts about age-orientation which is also quite worrying. I sincerely hope that you hold and practice the view that you can only know/love another as much as you know/love yourself.

posted June 26, 2008 05:44 PM         

quote:

---

This thread has me baffled. It never deserved more than one page. I just don't get it.

---

posted June 26, 2008 10:35 PM         

My initial response to you was unnecessary and fueled by fury. I do apologize. I mean it.

I simply lashed out at you because what you have been saying hurts, quite frankly. You belittle me. You undermine MY feelings. You make this situation and my emotions seem very easy to deal with, very simple. Very Black and White. And because you make it seem like that, i feel guilty and pathetic and selfish for wanting a relationship. For wanting him.

Well, i'm not saying that it's ok to feel this way for him.

I'm just saying that i do.

As for respecting marriage, i do. And believe it or not, i respect her. I like her. A great deal. I don't want to push him into doing something that he doesn't want to do. If he doesn't want to leave her, than i would never dream of asking him to. Even if he did want to leave her, it wouldn't be because of me. I wouldn't WANT it to be because of me.

God... I don't want him like this. I don't want to ruin a family or a marriage or a life. I just... i'm waiting for him to realize he loves me. That's all. Really. Would it drive me mad if i found out? Maybe. Probably. But i don't need a fairytale romance. I don't want it. Any of it.

I'm not expecting us to get together, ok? I'm not.

I'm sorry. I am sorry. This thread was a mistake. Posting all of this was a mistake.

In truth, i should have known better.

When i felt the first flame flicker for him i should have walked away. I should have made it a point to keep my distance. I should have controlled the urge to delve into him. But instead i fed this fire. I have done this to myself. And i knew i would feel like this, that everything would turn out like this. I knew it. When it first began. When it was just simple, uncomplicated infatuation.

I let it escalate. I let it get out of hand.

And now look at me. 2 years of my life buried in a man i shall never have. 17 and ready to clock in.

I'm sorry. This was all very foolish of me. I wanted someone to see something in our charts that justified my love. I wanted someone to see something that gave away a secret about him and how he felt for me. I wanted any sort of truth i could be offered.

And what i've done is started a conflict of morals. And for that I am sorry.

You can't make any of this ok for me, knowflakes, and that's what i wanted from you. I wanted you all to tell me that it was ok to feel this way. That it was ok to be in love with a married man. But it's not ok. It's not ok. And i'm sorry for making you all try to save me from the turmoil i have created for myself. You can't answer the questions i've been asking you. Only one person can do that, and you're telling me to back away from him. Well, good news to you all, i'm going to college. 2 1/2 hours away. I am giving him a break, i am giving me a break.