posted June 26, 2008 10:57 PM         

i came to the conclusion the only thing that was desired here was the confirmation as this man as the soulmate. so i went back and deleted some very personal offerings.

in her defence and in understanding what she's going through - while meta-4 shows remarkable maturity in her communications as a 17/18 year old - she lacks the life experience to understand that love and life are built up on more than that. name one person in that age bracket that wasn't looking for love and that kind of love? because love and romance are very highly idealised at that age. she just doesn't have the experience to know any other. when i was 20 and in exactly the same predicament with the same feelings and thoughts i would have said the same things she's saying. years later i know different because i've lived different and experienced love in different ways. and this person that i felt so sincerely and strongly was the only one for me - wasn't - because i found my soulmate later.

the big problem with believing you have found the one for you is you block out any other possibilities. and when you commit yourself to someone who is not available to you you really stop yourself from experiencing love and life on any level. and at such a young age that's not a good thing because it gives the illusion that there will never be anyone else or that these feelings will never be felt again. and that's just not the case. and i think that everyone who's lived it and answered here has been saying that.

this thread has been answered by a lot of these people - who have actually gone through this - feeling the very same feelings. they are the ones that have actually had the relationship with their married or unavailable person/soulmate and found that it wasn't what they thought it should have been. and the outcome has been fairly consistent throughout.

posted June 27, 2008 12:53 AM         

Anyway, it's clear to me that you only came here for some astrological advice and it just bothered me that you were pounced on, belittled, and treated pretty condescendingly by some people. And despite the back peddling that is now going on...yes, you were attacked. I find it interesting that in a place where people are supposed to be so "enlightened", they have been so judgmental. (And not just about the fact that he's married, but the age difference, too.)

DD-Hey, thanks! If I ever make it to Germany, we'll have to go get a beer! Btw, I hope you guys win the Euro 2008...Go Mannschaft!!!

23-

quote:

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Yeah funny that. I'm not saying this is one of these cases but I have noticed many times on this website where different knowflakes have put up the same question over different time periods, yet one person will receive minimal or no answers to their questions while others get gushing responses.

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posted June 27, 2008 01:14 AM         

i can relate to almost everything that's been said on this thread, by everyone, goshdarnit!! must be my pisces SN. i think meta4 deserves our compassion and is showing admirable restraint. but at the same time, it's easy to look at this through the eyes of the wife, and the marriage bond. obviously a 17 year old with such eloquence, passion and maturity for her age is going to be a HUGE temptation to a man in his 40s. so it is easy to identify with the wife on this one, and perhaps some people are even projecting some of the sadness we all feel at losing that youthful allure (as well as the relative injustice of this, and the stupidity of many males for believing that tighter skin is what their hearts desire, as opposed to the wisdom most older women accrue). but obviously it is a HUGE deal to consider breaking up a marriage, or even allowing oneself to feel tempted to do so. as you get older your identity becomes more structured, and families really should be protected and nurtured when there is love within them, i believe. i mean, say this guy feels 20% more love (if we could quantify it) for you than he does his wife. but he still loves his wife and has a great fondness for her and the life they've built together over many years. should meta4 then be encouraged to go for him? if he presented her with this information and felt confused about what to do? it's tricky!! and i think all of this effects us all in many ways and asks of us some really important questions, the answers to which are not easy.

posted June 27, 2008 01:31 AM         

Just a couple of things I want to clarify: I don't think she has said she will attempt or even WANTS to break up this marriage. I think it's a situation where, if he's unhappy and he decides to leave, then maybe she would be with him. BUT, she wants his decision to leave to be independant of whatever feelings they might share. Personally, I think this is the right attitude to have in this situation.

Also, please don't think I'M encouraging her to "go for it" because 1) I don't think that's what she's asking us; and 2) As I said before, I also believe he should make whatever decision about his marriage independantly of his feelings for ANY OTHER PERSON (and yes, I mean his kids, his mother, the neighbors...not just Meta).

posted June 27, 2008 01:43 AM         

i think this turned into an argument with various entrails between the rest of us, unrelated to meta's intentions! i think debate is good and healthy and it's good for meta to hear many perspectives! i guess even the angry ones are arguably justified (representing the wife's likely point of view and feelings, etc.).

i thought i'd read here and there that meta was bound and determined to see this through, whatever it took, or something along those lines, but maybe she just meant finding out his feelings, and not actually trying to be with him. it's hard to offer adivce without bringing in an element of "judgement", no matter how softly it's intended and delivered, but i'm glad to hear that that is not your intention, personally. i think the more EFFORT you put in, when it's not working, when you have to FORCE it, the more you have your sign that it's not yours to have. that is just my personal opinion though.

as an aquarius i guess detaching comes easily to me (though not my taurus moon!), but i really advise you to let go.. breathe.. and replace your feelings for him with passion for yourself and your life. push him out of your mind. let the love you feel transform you, but don't attach it to HIM. it's YOUR love.

posted June 27, 2008 02:16 AM         

"I simply lashed out at you because what you have been saying hurts, quite frankly. You belittle me. You undermine MY feelings. You make this situation and my emotions seem very easy to deal with, very simple. Very Black and White. And because you make it seem like that, i feel guilty and pathetic and selfish for wanting a relationship. For wanting him."

...I don't do any of these things AS no one else can make you DO anything! No one else can make you FEEL anyway.

The secret of love is that it all happens within YOURSELF and the feelings of true love are simply the complete love that you have for yourself, reflected back through recognising it in another.

I leave you with this excerpt which will stand you in good stead for life, and YES, this is experience talking!

(excerpt from a book written in 1928)

""A woman came to me in deep distress. The man she loved had left her for other women, and said he never intended to marry her. She was torn with jealousy and resentment and said she hoped he would suffer as he had made her suffer: and added, "How could he leave me when l loved him so much?"

I replied "You are not loving that man, you are hating him, " and added "You can never receive what you have never given. Give a perfect love and you will receive a perfect love. Perfect yourself on this man. Give him a perfect, unselfish love, demanding nothing in return, do not criticise or condemn, and bless him wherever he is."

She replied, "No, l won't bless him unless l know where he is!!"

"Well" l said "that is not real love"

"When you send out real love, real love will return to you, either from this man or his equivalent, for if this man is not the divine selection, you will not want him. As you are one with God, you are one with the love which belongs to you by divine right".

"When you are no longer disturbed by his cruelty, he will cease to be cruel, as you are attracting it through your own emotions."

posted June 27, 2008 02:40 AM         

RE: "My main issue is that people are making the assumption that staying in a marriage is ALWAYS the right decision, and they are force-feeding this opinion to Meta and implying that she's a "home wrecker"."

WHO IS MAKING THE ASSUMPTION? lol
You damn anyone whom judges by judging them?

Please don't judge me because l am not saying that AT ALL !!!!

posted June 27, 2008 02:50 AM         

quote:

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My main issue is that people are making the assumption that staying in a marriage is ALWAYS the right decision, and they are force-feeding this opinion to Meta and implying that she's a "home wrecker". Someone (I think DD) already said that a third party can't break up a happy marriage, and I agree.

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True to a point. WIth the greatest respect; yes, happy marriages will last but don't go interfering in a pair's business anyway. With the greatest respect again, I don't think from what I have read has said that staying in the marriage is always the right decision, I think what people are saying, including myself, is that marriage is a sanctimonious pact, its a solemn promise between two people to have an exclusive relationship. By getting involved in a marriage affair dissolves this pact. It shows disrespect to all three parties involved.

From what I see, I don't think Lara is being judgmental. In fact, she being direct, frank, honest and practical about it, mandane, keeping it real, whatever you want to call it. She has stated that she has seen her friend undergo issues like this before. She's been around enough years to tell you what has happened.

In fact, there is nothing wrong with being judgmental. There's a problem in todays society that everyone has to be non-judgmental and accepting about things. No, there are morals and boundaries to be followed in society. Having an affairs is immoral as is committing crimes, incest etc.

posted June 27, 2008 02:58 AM         

I am being frank, direct, etc... l am totally straight up as a person and occasionally (or frequently to some) l do seem very blunt and verging on rude BUT i'm all about being real, keeping it simple and 'digging' instead of judging.

Thank you for seeing 'me' for me 23.

posted June 27, 2008 04:03 AM         

I married a man who l thought was THE ONE, my life-long soul mate. I felt the same way as Meta (although i'm not suggesting that hers is same as mine) but a couple of years into our marriage and 2 kids later l realised that l had married a nightmare match for me. Sure he was a soul mate - he was one of those 'mates' who is there to teach you a huge lesson though.

6 years on, i'm now divorced but l still have him stalking me on a daily basis. It is not a situation l would want on my worst enemy and if only l hadn't been so blinded by my "so-called" feelings then l would have clearly seen what a ******* he was.

posted June 27, 2008 03:04 PM         

From the very beginning I have wanted to look at Meta, this guy, and their relationship strictly from an astrological point of view.

23, you asked Meta if she thought she could "handle or really deserve a development in this relationship". "Deserve"? That offends me and the remark wasn't even directed towards me! Are you saying that Meta doesn't "deserve" to be with the man that she is struggling so horribly for? Yikes!

Also, 23, I want to go off of something that you said. You said that she's very powerful and has "serious emotions" based on what you see in her chart. That's what I have been looking at from the beginning. If you examine her chart and look at her aspects you will see very clearly that she is very, very, very intense and serious and emotional. She feels very deeply, so when she says that she loves him and that she's being tortured and that she thinks that he is "her own self split down the middle" or whatever she said, I believe her. She's not exaggerating, that's just exactly how it feels to her. Meta, I love the way you explain yourself, it's so touching and moving!

But look at her chart a second. I noticed she has a Grand Square between her Leo Sun/Scorpio Pluto/Aquarius Moon/ Taurus Mars. She also has Ascendant in Scorpio. She has Pluto in the 1st house. Her Cancer Venus is opposite her Saturn and Neptune, sextile her Taurus Mars, conjunct her Jupiter and Chiron, AND trine her Pluto. Good Golly Miss Molly, this girl is INSANELY powerful. I don't think she realizes how charismatic she appears to others, or how charismatic she probably appears to this guy she doesn't believe wants her.

Look at their synastry, especially their asteroids. HER Valentine conjuncts his Juno, Karma, Ceres, and ASC; is opposite his Mars and DC. HIS Valentine (get ready) conjuncts her Venus, Chiron, Pallas; trines her ASC, Juno, Pluto; opposite her Saturn; sextiles her Mars, DC.

All I'm saying is that I can understand what she means. She says she "knows" he's the one for her. She says she knows that she was meant for him and he was meant for her. I'm NOT saying that I agree, or that they're soulmates, all I'm saying is that there is an undeniable connection. I'm saying that she's not making these feelings up.

posted June 27, 2008 03:16 PM         

Valentine/juno/karma/AC - KARMIC
Valentine/mars !
Valentine/venus is great but it's also on her chiron and linked to AC/Juno/Pluto!!!!!! lol and SATURN.

ufffff! It's karmic written all over it, no?

Also, her chiron is conjunct her venus and her chiron opposes her saturn.
2 interesting natal linkages as far as Magi is concerned.
Chiron/saturn is HEARTBREAK linkage of which she is the heartbreak.
I just noticed venus opposing saturn too!

posted June 27, 2008 03:33 PM         

As far as her natal aspects, I don't get what you mean. What is a HEARTBREAK linkage in the NATAL chart? I mean, I could understand if it was like her Chiron/his Saturn, but ... you said SHE is the Heartbreak. Heartbreak for who? Herself? For everyone she comes into contact with? Please explain.

posted June 27, 2008 03:59 PM         

I have been there, done it, got the tee shirt and left wondering WTF happened! I absolutely thought my ex husband was my ultimate soul mate. I was so in love, he was so in love. Then BOOM. The lessons and the karmic hit and this perfect love was covered in sharp, deathly thorns.
At that moment i realized that love is truly blind and that my soul had set me up to learn a very harsh lesson. Awareness is everything, you know?

As for the saturn/chiron/venus heartbreak, yes it means that because it squares his NN, it is POTENTIALLY a karmic heartbreak where she will break his heart. His saturn is also trine her moon. So both their saturns are very emotive!

posted June 27, 2008 05:27 PM         

quote:

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23, you asked Meta if she thought she could "handle or really deserve a development in this relationship". "Deserve"? That offends me and the remark wasn't even directed towards me! Are you saying that Meta doesn't "deserve" to be with the man that she is struggling so horribly for? Yikes!

---

Look I'm on borrowed time here as I've got to take care of guest staying with me so I'll have to look at people's posts in details.

However, what I said there was specifically, does she deserve the mess and heartache that will be created if a love triangle is formed - complications with the wife, his baggage, kids etc. That would be hard for anyone to deal with at any age and it upsets me to see that another human being could go through that - she is above that - she doesn't deserve that, she is also above having fingers pointed at her. She's got a hell of a lot going in her chart, she can do so much. I didn't say she didn't deserve him, she deserves love and to find a partner and if he IS this soulmate, he will come back to her at the right time when the situation is resolved with his wife one way or another.

Maybe I'm just a cold, hard, pragmatist. I don't think the pain is worth the love when there are so many other people around in this world to form bonds with. I personally don't believe IN THE ONE. I believe that there are many people who are compatible with you (many soulmates, twinflamets etc) and you choose one person to commit to if you marry them (whether they are your soulmate or not). Maybe this is becoming a philosophical debate now as to what we consider more worthy, love at all costs or the realities of life. I choose caution, limitation and reality.

And here's a quote from the Saturnian pearls of wisdom thread (from soulsista):

posted June 28, 2008 10:25 PM         

I tried to copy and paste it as a word document but it wouldn't allow me to do so.