posted July 27, 2003 06:37 PM              

do you just rely on your own interpretation of god? about what you feel? i'm not knocking your beliefs in any way, i hope i dont come off as condecending or anything. last question: if the bible is not gods word how can we know what is, or what he/she wants at all? again is it just what we each feel individually?

posted July 27, 2003 06:54 PM              

Organized religion is someone else's interpretation gone public.

I am not of any denomination, but I would call myself a Christian, simply because I believe in the principles set forth by J.C.
Very simply....Be good to each other, and to yourself because everything is reciprical
And know that death is not the end. PERIOD.

Everything beyond that is MAN'S doing. Look how out of control it got! It's so FUBR now, men KILL each other over who's interpretation is correct. Such arrogance. Sheesh!

posted July 27, 2003 07:46 PM              

ok back to business *serious look on face* ahem. ^_^

another libra, not surprised two libras having a debate, that would be like in the matrix where neo and morpheus have their fight in the dojo shortly after neo was removed from the matrix and was on morpheus' ship, lol! haha i love it! (thats my favorate movie series... saw matrix reloaded in imax lately and i was SO HAPPY and thrilled beyond belief!).

faith in god is a very personal issue, and if being a christian works for a person, thats great, although i still find it quite wrong in many ways. i really have no problem with that though. ive had a couple of friends who were quite devout christians, and we didnt appreciate each other any less, we just never tried to make the other believe what we believed. i do have a problem when its forced on me, when i have discovered a different truth for myself. i cant get away from religion, its bloody EVERYWHERE! its just not fair (another libra thing coming out, lol). there has GOT to be a full separation between church and state in my lifetime or ill be a POMF. god is STILL in the canadian constitution, in the preamble! argh!

my personal 'god' happens to be a mixture of several things, my version of god happens to be very etherial, not a concrete image. 'god' is everywhere, and 'god' is nowhere. god is in the rivers, the earth, within me, within you. god is in the harmony and fabric of the universe, god is the order that keeps everything moving and flowing. god is in the planets, and god is in science. god has nothing to do with morals, my 'god' is neutral and just 'is', my god doesnt have to tell me how to live. thats what makes the way i *do* live more reflective on my own character, i am wholly responsible for my actions. i do believe in karma, but my karma is not a 'judge' either, my karma is simply the harmony of the universe putting my 'soul' back into a state of balance. thats a very simplistic explanation... but i dont want to go off on a tangent about karma in this thread.

god is not a... person? to me. i dont even like using the word 'god'... because the image that the word 'god' brings up isnt the one that fits with my personal beliefs. it isnt a force or a person, its just the harmony of the universe. that doesnt even begin to describe it... but its the best i can do. god doesnt act, god just is and always was.

sasha- i would love a healthy debate with you, so we will get the program loaded (another matrix reference, lol!) and start soon. i look forward to it. id like to get a few committments taken care of first so i can spend time without feeling guilty.

i have two questions for you. 1- why DONT you believe in astrology? and 2- do you believe in science? these arent trick questions, i am just curious as to what you do believe in. i gotta know where you are coming from... you obviously know where i am coming from, you know i believe in astrology, and that i believe in science. you are essentially asking me to prove it to you in your terms, so i just want to know what your terms are.

i cant find your last posts as the search for this forum doesnt work. do you remember any thread titles? i dont have time to look through every thread since may 2003... so it would help if i knew where to look.

as far as what is gods word... well, go to an unpopulated area and you will see god. come to british columbia, you will see 'god' here for sure. places like montana, they call it 'gods country' i believe. god is a state of harmony, and needs no words nor decree. the bible is crap, im sorry to anyone who believes in it but it just is. the modern idea of 'god' and the 'bible' and other religious texts are merely tools used to control the masses. weve been over that.

posted July 28, 2003 07:31 AM              

first of all i agree with you about iraq and bush's involvement. you wont get any argument about that from me.

however, i do take issue to your comments which i interpret (admittedly i might be mistaken) as calling us racists. theres not a racist bone in my body, and i have gone out of my way to learn about other cultures as best i can, and thats no small feat in this north american society. the fact of the matter is, i *am* white, how could i possibly think any other way than who i am? being 'white' happens to be my reality. i cannot 'think' asian, i cannot 'think' african, nor any other way. i am what i am, and thats what youre gonna get. i thought that as a person i 'think' as a person, and not necessarily a white one, just a human being. you cant make a cow lay eggs you know.

i have gone out of my way risking personal harm by contesting peoples racist views before, certain members of my family, and also certain members of my peer group. a friend of mine (when i was about 19 years old) somehow introduced these people into my life, and they happened to be neo-nazi skinheads. *sigh* not my favorate time in life... anyway they were scary people, but i still told them they were full of shite. these people did eventually harm me quite badly, but i dont wanna talk about that right now. that was a dark time in my life and i was severely messed with. some wounds never heal.

i cant even 'think' norwegian or welsh/scots, and i have ancestral roots there. i can only think faery.

i admittedly do not know much about african culture, although i have picked up bits here and there. this isnt for lack of wanting, or lack of interest, or most importantly lack of scope and respect. its mostly lack of opportunity. do you understand how difficult it is to get any sort of information on other cultures in canada? and we are supposedly very strong on multiculturalism. its not taught in schools (at least not when i was in school) and the library really doesnt have that much selection. most of the best learning i do comes from the source anyway, and in my travels throughout this continent (i havent been able to afford to go overseas, again lack of opportunity) i have been lucky to have met many people of many different origins who have shared with me their cultures. i cant do better than that, and im sorry.

posted July 28, 2003 10:39 AM              

only you must face reality, most answers are in Africa, i have more respect for they're raw spirituality than anywhere...
about cameroon jungle-coons or i don't know how Lion68 called them : most speak english german and french (more than most white people); it's the richest (in terms of nature) country in Africa (most people have diplomas but don't need them) and home of powerful people

posted July 28, 2003 11:00 AM            

Wow, now the shi* is really getting deep. Why in the hell do such open minded people (or so they profess) have to take so many slaps at Christians? Are those of you that denegrate Christians exempt from ills of the past caused by the belief that you subscribe to? Were there no other groups that persecuted another?

posted July 28, 2003 02:39 PM            

You did leave some individuals out that should have been mentioned though. Stalin, Mao Tse-tung, Kim Jung Il, Pol Pot and Kim Jong Il, mass murderers one and all.

As far as I know, Hearst never killed anyone in his life, never seized a government by force or murdered his way to the top and has nothing in common with any of the mass murderers of history. Do you have any information to the contrary?
http://www.hearstcastle.org/history/william_r_hearst.asp
http://hearstfdn.org/

The name of the Angel who led the rebellion in heaven is Lucifer, not Gabriel.

Isaiah 14:12:
"How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! How art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!"

jwhop

posted July 28, 2003 02:51 PM              

Manipulating his empire of newspapers to influence the world to his own whim... a whim to exercise power/control over governments & the people... essentially a "Perversion of Power"

Where do I get my info, in school silly Leo... Maybe the history books were outdated when you studied... decades ago, but mine dear fellow, are quite up to date!

TWO WORDS JWHOP: "CITIZEN KANE"
*the death blow is dealt*
Don't come at me like that!

As for Lucifer, NO NO NO, He led the rebellion AGAINST GOD... Gabriel was the Arch Angel, closest to God, until he warred with other Angels to keep human souls out of heaven & sharing God's love...

Hence, the title, "the fallen angel Gabriel"

posted July 28, 2003 03:13 PM              

...men and women..women take equal responsibility, blame and reward for everything that has happened since the start of man and woman kind. I do not blame men as a sex for everything that has been done up to now, women were always there equally, even if men chose not to write about them. I don't go with that, we were oppressed forever, at one time women were equals to men, so it's possible again. We wrote the bible too, only a man signed his name. One day, men and women will be equals again.

(The Bible isn't all sexist)
I agree with what you are trying to say, the motivation behind the words, but I do take offense at what you said about Angel Gabriel because no archetype based on human experience is perfect. All Gods, Goddesses, Angels, are based on people because they were not invincible. Gabriel did do something wonderful, he appeared to Joan of Arc, and most belive this to be a fact. Why she chose to believe it was him? I don't know, but I can speculate there was an element that she needed in her life to help her lead a war. In his archetype she found peace of mind. No doubt she was a real woman.

Where would some of us be without her motivation? I know I could not have done what I did, talk back to my parents, or assert myself as a child without Joan of Arc to look up to. She was the only assertive woman I ever knew, or most Catholic girls ever come in contact with. She is in essence the daughter of Gabriel. His equal on earth. He gave her a singleminded divine belief in herself that got her through...that's a good lesson for a young girl to learn who has no personal power. Boys have dozens of role models, girls very few. Once we start to see eachother as equals, we have more role models.

So, I have to say I have a personal interest in Gabriel because he is there to motivate us on earth. Angels are genderless so he is half woman/half man. There is a lot to contemplate there, I suggest you meditate on it.

Seriously, and let me know what you come up with.

Take Care,
Natasha

posted July 28, 2003 03:16 PM              

Taureans evil? I won't even respond to THAT one!

Natasha

posted July 28, 2003 03:22 PM              

This "being" did some GREAT things too, if I remember correctly... I mean it WAS the closest Angel to God AFTER Lucifer left heaven... but later in the history of mankind it exhibited a possible evil nature, when in truth Gabriel thought its fight was a noble & just one...

posted July 28, 2003 05:10 PM            

Osama bin Laden
Born on Sunday, March 10, 1957 in Jeddah SAUDI ARABIA
Sun: 19 Pisces 32 Moon: 00 Cancer 42 Mercury: 10 Pisces 14 Venus: 10 Pisces 37 Mars: 25 Taurus 16 Jupiter: 27 Virgo 49 Saturn: 14 Sagittarius 09
www.adze.com

posted July 28, 2003 05:24 PM              

Gabriel was a musician, on the horn. To me he is the patron saint of music, a Taurean love. All's fair in love and war you know. I am a little in love with my archangel I think, even if he is a whatever.

Oh well, I am a Taurus too, remember how possesive we get about what we love? Can you tell yet that I am teasing you?