posted July 30, 2003 12:32 PM              

Now, it's just silly to expect the U.S. to get involved in every conflict where one side is losing badly, although America as a country IS offended by human rights violations. More often than not, they WILL become involved when it reaches an extreme level, but they have to be on freindly terms with the underdog first. There has to be relations between the US and the country or ruling government that is under attack. If that's the case, then there probably IS some American interests there as well, but hardly enough to make them join a conflict out of desparation, or fear of losing a source of some consumable good. Don't forget that it's usually WAY MORE in other countries best interests to do business with the U.S. than the other way around. Anyway, some conflicts just have to work themselves out.

It's true that some of their foreign activities are truly to protect a vested interest, but many of their international objectives are humanitarian in nature, alot more than ANY OTHER COUNTRY. You're simply not giving credit where credit is due. Why? Probably jealously that has turned to contempt. Don't forget that the U.S. is made up of YOUR OWN COUNTRY-MEN, wherever you are. Everybody there has ancestral roots ELSEWHERE in the world. (except the Native American Indians, who are the only TRUE native sons and daughters)

So to hate America is really, in essence to hate every other ethnicity.

RANT OVER

* steps down off of soap-box*

posted July 30, 2003 04:46 PM              

teva- this is getting nowhere. if you are a libra why do you not seem to value peace in this thread? please stop now. i have to be honest teva, but you are coming across as very insulting... im sure you dont mean it and maybe you are just very passionate about this issue but i think everyone here needs to calm down. please relax ok? or else ill give you bug hugs, and you wouldnt want that big hugs are better

~faery

posted July 30, 2003 05:57 PM              

I'm done with this subject, as it's gone down an entirely different road now, which really belongs in the Global Unity forum, so the conversation may rage on in there, but we're done with it here.

posted August 01, 2003 05:11 AM              

i thought something must have been going on, because you are generally very easygoing and kindhearted. i know the world and the aholes that are often in it are hard to deal with sometimes, but we have to watch who we take it out on.

that is truly awful what happened to her i know that you will be supportive for her... im sure its a very rough time for her and i can imagine its hard for a guy when his girl is so hurt. one can feel powerless... my husband feels the same way with me sometimes. i had something similar happen, many years ago.

take a deep breath and be thankful for what we all have, which is people that care. even if we dont all believe the same things. i care about people, not their beliefs.

*hugs*

posted August 01, 2003 05:21 AM              

im sorry you feel the way you do. i dont consider myself anyone special around here, i just registered what, two months ago, not even. i dont really think anyone is high and mighty at this site, some people do have very passionate personalities and they shine through i suppose. theres nothing wrong with that, who can we be, other than who we are?

as a relative outsider, i feel very comfortable and tolerated here. i havent had that at many boards in my internet 'career'. i am thankful for this place, even though many probably cant stand what i believe, or maybe even me myself. im ok with it, im secure in my beliefs and in my value as a human being so a little opposition doesnt bother me. i dont suggest that you are... just stating *my* reality. i dont know you, although im interested in knowing you. *offers friendly handshake*

once we start a thread it no longer becomes ours but the property of the community. if no one is responding, then a thread will die and theres nothing on earth the starter of it can do. they could argue with themselves, but thats hardly fun

if you would like to continue to talk about this with teva or anyone, you do have other options. i had pointed out elsewhere that this thread really didnt have much to do with astrology, and so you could try another forum. it just doesnt 'fit' here really. thats my opinion anyway. i have a grand earth trine, i can be a sucker for order, especially one of those trine planets is saturn, lol. uh oh, did i just make it about astrology? eek! *runs and hides* jk

take care all and happier days ^_^

posted August 02, 2003 04:27 PM              

That is complete and utter nonsense! To make the assumption that everyone in Africa doesn't have any drinking water and that they are basically hopeless is as offensive as it is ignorant.

My family comes from Nigeria and I know for a fact that there is plenty of drinking water there and in other African countries, and that many of them are doing quite well for themselves.

It's so frustrating for me to hear people peg Africa as some hell hole with absolutely no hope for survival without the help of the US and other countries. Until you actually go there and visit (and I'm talking about the cities and towns, not just the slums and the safari), you are not in any position to say anything.

The media has a tendency to show people what they want to believe about a person, place, etc. In this case, the media would have the majority of people believe that Africa is a wasteland, when in fact it isn't.

Are there problems there--of course! There are problems everywhere, including the US. I live in Kansas and I can tell you for a fact that there are people here who don't have any drinking water either. Does that make KS and the US as a hole uninhabitatble? Of course not, because it doesn't effect everybody, just like it doesn't effect everybody in Africa.

posted August 02, 2003 04:37 PM            

Interesting statement that some people in Kansas don't have "any" drinking water. Which people in Kansas are those and where in Kansas are they?

posted August 03, 2003 01:58 AM              

the majority does speak.

posted August 03, 2003 06:01 AM              

i think you might best be served to take your own advice of 'getting your facts straight' before you attack someone. let me provide you some context as to the statements of mine that you attack.

i did not say that 'everyone in africa has no drinking water etc', those are your words. what i did say is

quote:

---

just like those poor kids in africa who dont even have drinking water, well that is their fate. they didnt choose to be born there, thats just what life dealt them, and i hope and wish that they end up with a fulfilling life.

---

it is my understanding that Nigeria is quite advanced and industrialized. many countries in africa are not and fall under the derivative of 'third world'. those are not my classifications, those are the standards of many agencies in the domain of 'humanitarian information and services'. i am not responsible for that, i only try to be as knowledgeable about the rest of the world as i humanly can. there are many other regions that share that distinction, and i am sorry that my usage of africa as an example upset you. unfortunately i cannot go to see for myself, even had i the money that would be a most grandiose undertaking, to see for myself the state of the rest of the world. i have to have information from somewhere, and i can assure you i am most particular and discerning about my sources.

further, in my defense, i did not say Nigeria, i said Africa. it was a rhetorical comment and i would hope it would be interpreted as such. no one else here criticised my usage of it, and i dont believe it is because they dont know anything about Africa, rather i think that they understood the context and the point i was trying to make.

i said *those* poor (as in unfortunate, not destitute) kids. not all poor kids. i used the example of africa as it is one that most people can relate to, for who among us havent seen those world vision (etc) commercials? i am sure that there are people in western society that are less than fortunate, i happen to be one, by western standards anyway. there are a lot of people who are far worse off than me, although that fact is irrelevant to the matter at hand.

i also said 'that is their fate' as i have no personal control over their situation or anyones other than my own. i never said nor implied that they had no control over their situation, i was speaking in terms of my own personal belief systems but in an accessable way that other people would understand, thus the usage of the term fate. im sorry, but i dont know how else to describe the abject poverty that some people are born into. i think it would be presumptuous of me to do so as well. i think you might be making mountains out of molehills there. you seem to totally disregard my last statement, which was completely sincere (as is all of what i post). if pressed i can certainly provide facts to back up my opinions. i did not here as i have made a long enough post. i would be happy to prepare and send it to you if requested.

may i ask you something? would it have made a difference if i had of said 'india'? 'central america'? is it worth crucifying me for this? because i used one continent instead of another?

i also picked that item of information to support my point as i have a intense personal emotional reaction to those little children of the world who are born in impoverished areas, and it just so happened that the footage i have seen was filmed in africa. which country i do not know, and i apologise. i cannot do anything about it myself, which makes me frustrated as i cannot stand to see people suffer, and i intensely feel the unfairness of destitute peoples lot in life to an acute degree. especially innocent children. the issue strikes me on a personal level. yes, the media has posited some of these images within me, but that does not make me ignorant nor a tool of the media. it makes me human. i am most critical of popular media, and am bereft at the fact that i do not know the truth about everything. i would sorely love to have that understanding of what is really going on in our world. i have to accept some things i see though. what else do i have? i believe that your vilification of the media is with the media, not with me. kindly do not make me a scapegoat for their paramnesia.

know you much of forensics, the discipline of debate (not forensic science, the collection and interpretation of evidence relating to a crime scene or autopsy of a deceased person)? rhetoric is a core element of professional and lay debate. by design its use in debate is to bring facts to a level that the majority can understand and easily identify with/relate to so that they do not have to ruminate over obscure facts and figures and can instead follow the line of argument and can make up an opinion in one direction or the other. know you much of the metier of politician? its a valuable skill to have should one pursue that avocation.

it seems rather petty that you can pick one single sentence offered in neuterality from my post and unilaterally attack me and insinuate many things by your comments, none of which reflect very well on me. i dont even know you and this criticism has shocked me completely. this thread was all pretty much resolved insofar as my participation, and i came to it tonight expecting to see another post in the realm of 'hey we have differences, but we can be respectful of each other'. imagine my chagrin in seeing yours.

may i respectfully ask that in the future if you are still unresolved as to my virtue as a human being in this matter you contact me via email and spare these people from this? especially considering a thread where things have been resolved? my email address is displayed in my profile, if you wish to continue this feel free to make use of it. conversely, i also have another personal forum of my own which we could move this discussion to. i will no longer be participating in this thread, and of course it would be *my* fate that i have a part in participating in lindaland in a way that is quite unwanted by most here. of course i cannot let myself be drawn and quartered without reasonable cause, thats just something i cant let go, when my reputation is at stake. one has to be true to oneself, and that is why i am responding to this thread. i am quite upset at being accused of anything remotely resembling bigotry, much like lioneye was. i am certainly not an enemy of a continent as beautiful and full of spirit as africa. nor any country or continent, i see beauty in them all.

if you want examples of how far i have gone to champion the rights and dignities of peoples in other countries of the world, ask. i have many stories. i would prefer to share those via email as i do not want to be seen as 'tooting my own horn', and i dont wish to be the further catalyst for controversial threads. i already feel enough distaste toward me around here for the fact that i have participated in some.

my apologies to the people of lindaland. im sorry that everything that comes out of my keyboard seems to ruffle feathers. all i can be is who i am. i know not to be anyone different than who i am.

i wanted to mention here that i rarely hold grudges unless the circumstances are extreme. i dont deem these to be, it would take a lot more than this. when i have a problem with someone, i deal with the problem than i move on, with no hard feelings. its like the slate is wiped clean. thats the honest truth. i dont begrudge anyone their beliefs, unless its also under extreme circumstances (such as racism or otherwise repugnant idiologies. i am like a metaphor of a dog who has been beaten, it keeps coming back, and only once its been beaten to a bloody pulp over a prolonged period of time do i have negative feelings. in that case i avoid the source, rather than provide a stressful environment.

i hold nothing against you novgal. i said my peace and the matters finished with me. its your choice to understand me, or to hate me forever, and either option will leave me with no bad feelings regarding you. if you make the choice to further insult me, than i am sorry you see me that way and i would be sad about it. im merely human you see. i cant do anything about it if you choose to not believe my honest remarks. its beyond my control.

i wish you well, and welcome to the forums. perhaps you will fit in here better than i.

take care

~anais

ps if anyone has hatred for me for speaking up on my behalf and not turning the other proverbial cheek, know that i would defend the rights of anyone who was unfairly attacked. i would do it for you.

------------------
where i end and you begin there's a gap in between there's a gap where we meet where i end and you begin
and i'm sorry for us the dinosaurs roam the earth the sky turns green where i end and you begin

posted August 03, 2003 09:34 PM              

I am still fairly new to this site. Exploring it's mysteries for only a few months now. As a "silent-type" Scorpio I don't often feel the need to throw in my two cents. However, after reading this thread from begining to end(whew!), I felt compelled to tell you how very much I enjoy reading your posts. Always intelligent, insightful and FAIR. Honestly, the mind of an enlightened-type Libra is a wonderous thing to behold. I too appreciate a good, honest debate and often find myself puzzeled when thing turn nasty and people take things personally. After all, it's just a civilised exchange of ideas, right?

God bless you and keep posting!
Tink

By the way the little poem at the end was lovely. Is it yours? I have committed it to memory. I can certainly empathize.

posted August 04, 2003 01:02 AM              

first of all wanted to correct something that i said wrong. when i said i would no longer be posting in this thread, i meant i would not participate in further argument or debate. this thread is about healing to me now, and harmony and peaceful coexistance. so, i will limit my contributions to those ends in this thread. this really is the thread that would not die and i do feel guilty, but i also think that its not a bad thing to turn threads around where the result is that there is peace achieved and acceptance and support of our fellow brothers and sisters.

i guess i should also rectify something else i said or implied. i didnt mean to cut this debate with novgirl off with my having the last word. i honestly suggested taking it off the forum just to spare those who didnt want negativity. i suppose its not fair of me to do that though, novgirl has every right to contest my words in public. i dont have to have the last word, im not a bully. novgirl, if you want to continue this debate than i retract what i said up there, but could we please not do it in the astro forum. perhaps the global forum... or if anyone could think of another more suitable. i simply didnt want to bring more negativity to a thread that was totally resolved.

anyway, tink, THANK YOU for your support. it couldnt have come at a more needed time, and the fact that you felt prompted to post to help me feel better when you arent a chatty type poster is dear to me, i value the effort greatly. if that awkward sentence makes sense, hehe. im a little scattered right now with all sorts of feelings/thoughts so forgive me that this post doesnt live up to the standards of form that my others have.

phew ok.

i love that quote of voltaire. i think in another 40 years i might be slowed down enough to actually read some, i am familiar with the man and many of his quotes (and really like them), i just find it hard to get through any of his works. ive had a couple of his books for ages. havent been able to actually get through them, im so aries moon at times, lol! i need my instant gratification fix his stuff is written in a way i have to think about, i cannot speed read his work. i find it hard to read through things that arent written fairly simply, by my standards. dunno though, last time i tried was at least 10 years ago, maybe im good for another try now.

server wants me to do this in two pieces... incoming!

------------------
where i end and you begin there's a gap in between there's a gap where we meet where i end and you begin
and i'm sorry for us the dinosaurs roam the earth the sky turns green where i end and you begin

posted August 04, 2003 01:04 AM              

quote:

---

After all, it's just a civilised exchange of ideas, right?

---

the quote in my signature... sadly is not mine. i thought about posting some of my poetry in the yellow wax thread, but havent decided yet. the quote i use is from a song of radioheads, 'where i end and you begin'. they are amazing to me and i love their lyrics so much. same with their music. i dont know what music you like? maybe you like them or might like them. you can find their lyrics here
radiohead- greenplastic.com

server is having a smilie problem i think, but too bad because i need them... usually i go through and take some out but i want each and every one, so part three in a moment ^_^

------------------
where i end and you begin there's a gap in between there's a gap where we meet where i end and you begin
and i'm sorry for us the dinosaurs roam the earth the sky turns green where i end and you begin