posted August 07, 2003 05:01 PM              

In 1776, Benjamin Franklin went to Paris as the ambassador's of the revolution. On that same year, the king Luís XVI authorized the free delivery of ammunitions and million$ for George Washington's armies.

The French help saved George Washington during the winter of 1777: the revolutionary forces, then besieged inside the city of Morristown and weakened by the desertions, were saved by the help of France.
In 1778, the "friendship treaty" was signed between France and the rebellious colony of North America. This treaty included a clause that France will guarantee the independence of the United States of America. In a logical consequence of this treaty -that was ratified in February- the war between England and France was declared in June.

A great number of French officials of high patent intervened directly to support George Washington.

The first French fleet, led by Charles Hector d'Estaing was sent to block the English inside the port of New York in 1778.

The marquis La Fayette's, that had decided to finance his taskwork literally " through his personal earnings", joined the revolutionary forces and was named in 1777 for the command of the revolution. Since 1776, he had convinced the king Luís XVI to send an expeditionary force of 6 thousand men to combat side by side with George Washington.

The end of the Independence war of the United States would not at least have been conceivable without the decisive intervention of the French armed forces.

In 1780, the French fleet of admiral's Grasse blocked the English army in Virginia, removing all escape possibility for the sea. In the same moment, always in Virginia, the count of Rochambeau and his forces were fighting against the troops of the English general Charles Manne Cornwallis.

The help of the French fleet and the proportionate military support to George Washington's revolutionary army stamped the destiny of England in their thirteen colonies. Cornwallis was forced to surrender in October of 1780 and, with that, the independence of the United States was definitively acquired.

Without memory, the current American government doesn't understand these reasons. Some people believe to be offending France - ridiculously -, changing the name of " French fries " -to " freedom fries ". They will probably stop drinking Evian for a long time and champagne for not so long.

Yet, in the entrance of the New York bay, The Statue of Liberty - a donation of France to the United States - it is there to remind the Americans that, if they believe to have saved France for occasion of two world wars, France, on the other hand, not only saved, as well as helped from a decisive way to create the United States of America.

posted August 07, 2003 05:05 PM              

Your have a strong lack of common sense, this is the reason why your speech is irrational, and since it is always harnessed to generic and vague causes, it's never about the subjects that really interest.
Maybe this is because you have an exacerbated will to take to personal side the opinions that doesn't fit yours...

Yet, I decided to answer " just " your last post to tell you that I don't hate the United States of America, I don't hate the domain - military - that America exercises today, I don't hate the American citizens... I don't even hate you...

What I hate is some people that think that they are the owners of the truth, people that don't get to dialogue in a high level and tends to appeal for groundless accusations, what I hate is racism disguised by cynicism...

Just as I never made any judgement about your convictions - I can disagree of them, but I never judged you for having them - I ask you to don't put words in my mouth, nor try to analyze my words in a cynic way.

About JEALOUS... dear LOST, I invested and invest much more in your country that you could not imagine, but my modesty impedes me of talking about that...

So, try to find yourself Lost and who knows, when you grow up, maybe you could to be like Jwhop or even like me... Lions that never got lost.

Jakie
_____________________________________________________________________
"I may disapprove what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."
Voltaire...French Author and Philosopher

posted August 07, 2003 06:22 PM            

Upon arrival in France, Benjamin Franklin petitioned France for a treaty with the Colonies granting reciprocal trade and recognition of the Colonies as a free nation, in addition to more arms and money. The French had already given limited supplies to the Colonies. The French kept Franklin and the other 2 American representatives cooling their heels for about 10 months to see which way the battles for Independence would go. They went badly at first, to say the least.

The turning point came in the second Battle of Saratoga at Bemis Heights on October 7. The British General, John Burgoyne officially surrendered his army on October 17, 1777.

When news of the surrender reached France, the French then reacted and entered into the treaty the Colonies desperately wanted and needed. But until that time, they had been in a holding pattern.

Perhaps you have heard the words of General John Pershing who led a Battalion of American troops to the tomb of The Marquis de Lafayette in World War 1 and uttered the words, "Lafayette, we are here."

You may also have heard of the generosity of the Supreme Allied Commander Eisenhower, who permitted General Charles de Gaulle, (a French General without an effective army, who had won no battles and taken no territory) to march into Paris and officially retake the city after British and American troops had forced the German Army to abandon Paris?

Perhaps you may have even heard of the enormous war debt for arms and supplies the United States forgave France and some other countries too.

Point, the debt for the assistance France rendered the Colonies has been repaid, several times over. Mark it Paid in Full.

posted August 07, 2003 09:42 PM              

It's a fact all great countries fall down, and if we are arrogant enough to think we won't, we will. If we are not careful, they will do nothing but laugh in our faces. So please make peace with one another, and try to understand all point of views.

Bashing each other will only make things worse, and if you continue to do so, you're breaking the policy of this website and may be booted out for sure. Some of you are walking a very fine line.

Just chill out, it's not that big of a deal!!

posted August 07, 2003 10:11 PM              

And don't forget that I said that I didn't believe that President Bush is the antichrist...
I may not agree with what he's doing, but for me there's a huge difference between be incompetent and be the antichrist...

I am waiving my white flag... no that I have surrended, but I want to establish peace...


Star, I am very happy in reading your words... they are wise and show a quite deep vision of reality... especially coming from such a young person!

Congratulations!

I would have a lot of pride in having a daughter like you...

posted August 07, 2003 10:42 PM              

i dont have any more political contributions to this thread, im done with that here. i did have something i wanted to say though, and i am sort of glad that some things were said, as it gives me an opening to say what ive felt for a little while but didnt really know how to approach the subject.

i need to tell you teva, that i cant help you with your chart anymore. the attitude i feel from your posts makes it difficult. i needed to reconcile this so im glad i had the opportunity. many people have been waiting but i couldnt move on without taking care of you first. i have to let you go.

good luck and i hope you find peace soon

~ana

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where i end and you begin there's a gap in between there's a gap where we meet where i end and you begin
and i'm sorry for us the dinosaurs roam the earth the sky turns green where i end and you begin

posted August 08, 2003 01:25 AM            

As in anything that happened in America on 9/11 or anyother day: HOW DARE YOU????!!!! Americans come to your country and is treated like SH*T when they're there,you come to OUR country and treat us like SH*T here for years and years!

For the last 200 years,your people have stabbed US in the back,because things didn't go your WAY! Well,it sure is nice to say that we IMPOVISHED you while you have the pleasure of traveling around the world and DIPLOMATING in "others" countries of laws that don't pertain to you!

posted August 08, 2003 03:21 AM              

We're just had squabbles over Iraq, we'll get over it, they are our friends no matter what our minor cultural differences are...

"No two countries with McDonalds have ever fought a war against each other"

We're still tight with Germany too... and by the way... for the record... France has nothing to do with the Euro beating the Dollar. Germany has forever been the heavyweight in the EU and it is fact they contribute the most cash to the organization...

posted August 08, 2003 04:14 AM              

*sigh*

anyway, starlover, i know. the thing of it is, that i had promised teva awhile ago that i would look at his chart for him. then i promised a few other people that would look at specific parts of theirs. teva was first in line and i couldnt do any others while he was waiting, im just funny that way, i kind of organize myself and he was first.

the turn this thread took has bothered me, and the simple fact of it is, is that if i dont connect with someone in some way, if they dont feel 'safe' to me, i cant be of any use in looking at their chart. i like to be neutral when looking at charts. otherwise my observations are useless. there was nobody else in this thread that i had promised to help, teva was the only one. as the thread progressed my heart fell heavier and heavier, and i did no chart work at all. i couldnt, because tevas comments upset me and made it difficult for me to even *think* about doing him the favor of looking at his chart. i was no longer neutral. i couldnt move forward on his chart, so none got looked at. does that make sense?

at least in this thread coming to a head of sorts, i was able to actually express how i feel, and tell teva that i just cant do his chart anymore. its time for me to move on. its just the way i am, and i cant help that. when you look at it, i dont owe anyone the hours it would take in studying and writing up a synopsis of their chart, its a gift that is given freely. im sorry that my personal feelings are in the way of my obligation to teva, but i just cant connect with him anymore and so hes going to have to get his chart figured out elsewhere. theres many places he can get help.

i have to move on to other things. to try to focus and help him at this point would hurt me, and i have to look out for number one. im sorry if that sounds uncharitable, but if thats the case, then spend the hundred bucks and get someone else to do a chart. i will gladly sacrifice for people in need, but at this point i dont feel teva is in need, i believe he has the ability to pay for a chart, and my time is better served elsewhere for people with greater need and less ability. if that makes sense.

i just really dont like the attitude ive seen in this thread, the disrespect, and im sorry but i cant do a favor for someone with that attitude.

~ana

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where i end and you begin there's a gap in between there's a gap where we meet where i end and you begin
and i'm sorry for us the dinosaurs roam the earth the sky turns green where i end and you begin

posted August 08, 2003 04:28 AM              

*btw, if i was sitting beside any of you or talking on the phone and the following was what i said, know that the tone of my voice would be very even, bland even. it just occured to me that if you put an angry tone to my words they would be very inflammatory. as in most things, i am very neutral when i speak. i always try to read posts as if they were being spoken, you know?

i am not touching the 9/11 thing, i dont give a rats ass WHO was responsible, the fact of the matter is is that many normal people like you and me lost their lives and hundreds of thousands of people who were related to/friends with them still suffer to this day. anything beyond that fact is unnecessary to me. i really dont care who did it. the only important thing is that it was done, and much suffering happened as a result. thats the real issue. anything else is unprovable and inflammatory.

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where i end and you begin there's a gap in between there's a gap where we meet where i end and you begin
and i'm sorry for us the dinosaurs roam the earth the sky turns green where i end and you begin

posted August 08, 2003 07:04 AM              

A wise Cappy (not Randall ) always told me "Respect is the adhesive that holds the rest together."

Sometimes we take attacks on our beliefs to be attacks on our person. As such, we may naturally want to bite back, so to speak. It helps to stop and think about why we're so angry, and then realize that to react in kind only brings you down to the attacker's level. Very hard thing to do, I know.

Attacking each other will never make you "wittier" or "smarter" and certainly does not prove anything other than how immature and insecure people can be.

I'd hate to see some people have to leave.

Starlover, I totally agree with you.

Ozonefiller, I too am very close to Ground Zero. I am very, very sorry for your loss.

posted August 08, 2003 11:46 AM              

If this government is so great, then tell me, why haven't they found Osama Bin Laden? A year ago they pin-pointed the location but they never found him. Why is this? Is it because they don't want to? We'll never know for sure, but it's very suspicious.

It's worth looking over all view points instead of bashing the ones who are not in the media. Instead of our media, why not listen to the viewpoints of those in other countries? Why? Becuase they are the ones looking in. We're looking out, which one has a better perspective on us?

Maybe France was against the war, because they realized that when America won the war, they might become more tryannical and domineering. Were they wrong? Has U.S.A become more tryannical and domineering? France probably doesn't hate us, or want peace, or is spiteful. Maybe they're looking out for the betterment of the world. Now would you be able to hear this in the media?

I'm not stating fact, I'm stating common sense.

posted August 08, 2003 12:32 PM              

Starlover - Your Light is a beacon in the storm. Keep Shining!

ozonefiller - My sympathy for your loss! The pain and anger you feel are shared by many people, in many nations.
Lest we forget, America was not the only country to feel loss and grief on that terrible day.

Dearest Knowflakes - I am deeply saddened that this thread (and others), which had the potential to be an interesting esoteric exercise for all of us, has degenerated into a maelstrom of profanity, personal attacks and threats. It stinks of intolerance, divisiveness, racism, nationalism and egotism.

Am I proud to be an American? Yes, I am!
Does that make me better than anyone else? NO! Sorry, it does not!
Because, first and foremost, I am human. My nationality, your nationality, 'their' nationality, will always be secondary to our humanity! We are all cogs in this great machine called LIFE. Where we were manufactured has no bearing on our ability to keep the machine humming. Our thoughts and actions do.

6 generations ago, one of my ancestors came from France. 4 generations ago, another ancestor arrived from Germany. Should I be at war with myS-elf because of the current politics of those countries?
Which piece of me should I sanction? Or cut off? Which of my German genes should I kick in the bum for killing my Grandfather in 1945? Which of my French genes should I blast for being "weak" or "lazy" enough to need him there in the first place? Sounds silly, doesn't it? And yet, that kind of silliness, on a Global scale, is suggested by someone, somewhere, everyday.

This forum is called Global Unity. The internet has given us a true Global Comm-unity.
Randall and LindaLand has provided us with what should be a safe haven to come together, whatever our race, religion, nationality or belief system, and expand our Understanding of the UNI-verse. Why do we continue to divide it into pieces?

I am not here because I think maybe, some day, there is an off-chance that we might be ONE. I am here because I beLIEve we are ONE, NOW! It seems we forget that sometimes.

The Knowflakes are not lacking in intellect, understanding or some level of Enlightenment. If we can't rise above our egos and discuss our differences with RESPECT, who can?

posted August 08, 2003 12:46 PM              

so beautifully said...

~faery

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where i end and you begin there's a gap in between there's a gap where we meet where i end and you begin
and i'm sorry for us the dinosaurs roam the earth the sky turns green where i end and you begin

posted August 08, 2003 12:53 PM              

You're all a riot. LOL. Instead of the LA riots it's the LG riots.

Instead of batons and Korean stores getting bashed, it's fighting with recycled electrons.