posted June 23, 2005 06:32 PM            

You are absolutely right. If a doctored picture of Bush is posted, we are to just sit back and say nothing while the lefties here have a field day. You post a picture (and this IS a judgement call) of Clinton's face being held in an extremely close and intimate manner and people start calling you a neo-conservative, Clinton hater..etc...

You are also right in that Clinton is doing what he has consistently done in the past - kiss a woman that is NOT his wife.

And STILL...no one defending Clinton will answer the questions "Would you think this was an intimate exchange if it involved Brad Pitt and Angelina Jolie? Would you allow someone to cup your face and whisper in your ear if you did not have a close relationship with them? Would you be defending Bush if it was HIM that was in the picture with another woman that was NOT his wife?"

posted June 23, 2005 07:13 PM            

You're right of course. If that was my wife holding on to Clinton in that very familiar and intimate way and kissing him on the mouth, there would be hell to pay, first with Clinton, then with her..after which I would hope they would be very happy together Toddles!

As Clinton said...whether oral sex is sex depends on the definition of IS.

posted June 23, 2005 08:30 PM              

so if you believe that then you must believe whats written in senator decamps book also right?......the allegatons in that book dwarf anything clinton has ever been reported to have done but i would believe he was in on that too.....too bad they didnt spend 40 million++ on that investigation eh? (except it wouldve probably brought down both parties).....yea i'll believe the same operative who "suicided" foster probly "suicided" spence too....

excerpts from the book by Webster G. Tarpley & Anton Chaitkin

****

The exposeé centered on the role of one Craig Spence, a Republican powerbroker known for his lavish ``power cocktail'' parties. Spence was well connected. He celebrated Independence Day 1988 by conducting a midnight tour of the White House in the company of two teenage male prostitutes among others in his party.

Rumors circulated that a list existed of some 200 Washington prominents who had used the call boy service. The Number Two in charge of personnel affairs at the White House, who was responsible for filling all the top civil service posts in the federal bureaucracy, and Secretary of Labor Elizabeth Dole's chief of staff, were two individuals publicly identified as patrons of the call boy ring.

Months after the scandal had died down, and a few weeks before he allegedly committed suicide, Spence was asked who had given him the ``key'' to the White House. The Washington Times reported that ``Mr. Spence hinted the tours were arranged by `top level' persons, including Donald Gregg, national security advisor to Vice President Bush and later U.S. ambassador to South Korea.

We have already had occasion to examine Don Gregg's role in Iran-Contra, and have observed his curious performance when testifying under oath before congressional committees. Gregg indignantly denied any connection to Spence, yet it is public record that Spence had sponsored a dinner in Gregg's honor in the spring of 1989 at Washington's posh Four Seasons Hotel in Georgetown.

If the first allegations about a massive child exploitation ring, centered around Larry King and leading all the way to the White House, had been made in 1989, and had all come from the same source, some shenanigans and mischievous collusion could be suspected. However, the allegations arising out of the Franklin Credit Union collapse were not the first.

Way back in 1985, a young girl, Eulice (Lisa) Washington, was the center of an investigation by Andrea L. Carener, of the Nebraska Department of Social Services. The investigation was instigated because Lisa and her sister Tracey continually ran away from their foster parents, Jarrett and Barbara Webb. Initially reluctant to disclose information for fear of being further punished, the two girls eventually recounted a remarkable story, later backed up by other children who had been fostered out to the Webb's [sic].

These debriefings were conducted by Mrs. Julie Walters, another welfare officer, who worked for Boys Town at the time, and who had been called in because of the constant reference by the Webb children and others, to that institution.

Lisa, supported by her sister, detailed a massive child sex, homosexual, and pornography industry, run in Nebraska by Larry King. She described how she was regularly taken to Washington by plane, with other youths, to attend parties hosted by King and involving many prominent people, including businessmen and politicians. Lisa specifically named George Bush as being in attendance on at least two separate occasions. ``Remember, this was in 1985,'' emphasized the Australian newsletter.

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Lawrence King was no stranger to President Bush. And Lawrence King was no stranger to Craig Spence. Several of the Omaha child prostitutes testified that they had traveled to Washington, D.C. with King in private planes to attend political events which were followed by sex parties. King and Spence had much in common. Not only were they both Republican Party activists but they had gone into business together procuring prostitutes for Washington's elite.

King is now serving a 15-year federal prison sentence for defrauding the Omaha-based credit union. But the magazines Avvenimenti of Italy and Pronto of Spain, among others, have charged that King's crimes were more serious: that he ran a national child prostitution ring that serviced the political and business elite of both Republican and Democratic parties. Child victims of King's operations charged him with participation in at least one satanic ritual murder of a child several years ago. The Washington Post, New York Times, Village Voice and National Law Journal covered the full range of accusations after the story broke in November of 1988. King's money machinations were also linked to the Iran-Contra affair, and some say that King provided the CIA with information garnered from his alleged activities as a ``pimp'' for the high and mighty.

Pronto, the Barcelona-based, largest circulation weekly in Spain with 4.5 million readers, reported that the Lawrence E. King child prostitution scandal ``appears to directly implicate politicos of the state of Nebraska and Washington, D.C. who are very close to the White House and George Bush himself.''

The weekly stated that Roy Stephens, a private investigator who has worked on the case and heads the Missing Youth Foundation, ``says there is reason to believe that the CIA is directly implicated,'' and that the ``FBI refuses to help in the investigation and has sabotaged any efforts'' to get to the bottom of the story. Stephens says that ``Paul Bonnacci directly accused President Bush of being implicated'' in the affair when he testified before the Franklin Committee. Bonnacci, who had been one of the child prostitutes, is identified by leading child-abuse experts as a well-informed, credible witness.

http://www.kmf.org/williams/bushbook/bush21.html

posted June 23, 2005 08:40 PM              

quote:

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now who has their head where? lol--Petron

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posted June 23, 2005 09:33 PM            

Your author has no credibility. On the other hand, Klein is well known, reliable, very credible, with lots of contacts and 30 years in the business.

You, yes you Petron are the biggest offender in slandering Bush. You've attempted in every way to tie W to Hitler thorough his grandfather. Attempted to tie his policies to his father and by extension to Saddam. Slandered the United States and generally haven't had anything good to say about the US. That's got leftist stamped all over it. You're never going to be happy here. Mainly because leftist policies are being rolled up and deposited on the garbage heap where they belong.

I remember when I saw your first post. You were whining about the government subpoenaing records at Drake about a meeting with the National Lawyers Guild...a communist organization with communist ties going back to at least the 50's.

So, you have a choice. You can choose to not read what I post or not but I can lay it on a lot heavier than I have so far. I despise hard left radicals because I understand their purpose. I can't understand the stupidity of anyone who follows along with them blindly...those they term "useful idiots". All of history shows the utter disaster collectivist governments are to the people of nations which adopt them or have them forced upon them.

My only question is; are you a hard left radical or, as they choose to call them, a "useful idiot"..one who spreads their nonsense, chants their slogans and gives them cover under a variety of innocuous sounding organization names.

posted June 23, 2005 09:43 PM              

quote:

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I remember when I saw your first post. You were whining about the government subpoenaing records at Drake about a meeting with the National Lawyers Guild...a communist organization with communist ties going back to at least the 50's.--jwhop

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oh yea your memory is reeeeal good jwhop
or are you making that up?

and i was asking pidaua what question she was talking about

posted June 23, 2005 09:57 PM            

You mean that wasn't you whining? Well, you'll have to forgive me.

All leftist whiners pretty much sound alike to me. Same pitch, same subject matter, same slogans, same leftist thoughts from their favorite loony webmasters. Not much to differentiate them.

BTW, this thread was intended to be humorous...right up until my motives for posting Commander Corruption's picture kissing that woman were questioned.

posted June 23, 2005 10:15 PM              

Well, here's an interesting story.....

Gannongate threatens to expose a huge GOP pedophile and male prostitution ring

By Wayne Madsen
Online Journal Contributing Writer

February 18, 2005—Now that is has been discovered that "Jeff Gannon" (real name James D. Guckert), a "reporter" for Talon News Service, a front operation run by the conservative Republican-oriented GOPUSA.com <http://gopusa.com/>, was using an alias as a cleared White House reporter, details are emerging that threaten to immerse the Bush administration in a major scandal.

"Gannongate," which is only now being mentioned by the mainstream news media, threatens to expose a potentially damaging GOP pedophile and male prostitution ring dating back to the 1980s and the administration of George H. W. Bush. James D. Guckert, using the name Jeff Gannon and possibly other aliases, was also running gay porn sites, one with a U.S. Marine Corps theme that solicited males for prostitution.

White House Press Secretary Scott McClellan said he did not realize Gannon was using an alias until recently. However, rumors in the gay community are circulating about McClellan frequenting gay bars in Austin, Texas.

Gannon bypassed established Secret Service security controls, including a background check requiring a social security number, to obtain a White House press pass that identified him by an alias, an action seen by many seasoned Washington journalists as only being possible if he had favorable treatment from White House staff, especially McClellan and his predecessor, Ari Fleischer. One White House reporter expressed revulsion over the fact that it was Fleischer who took away press credentials from the late long-time White House correspondent Sarah McClendon and handed them to Gannon.

GOPUSA.com is run by a right-wing Texan and Bush friend named Bobby Eberle. In 2003, GOPUSA.com launched a vicious anti-Semitic attack against international financier George Soros, a leading philanthropist for progressive causes and a major contributor to the Democratic Party.

In 2003, Gannon was reportedly given access by White House staff to a classified State Department Bureau of Intelligence and Research memorandum regarding a CIA meeting involving the dispatch of former U.S. Ambassador Joseph Wilson to Niger to investigate claims, which turned out to be false, that Iraq had attempted to procure yellowcake uranium from the West African country. The Wilson case ultimately led to a leak to the media by unnamed White House staff of Wilson's wife's name and identity as a covert CIA agent.

It was also revealed that Jeffgannon.com had been registered by the same Delaware-based company that had registered other Republican-oriented web sites, along with those catering to pornographic military gay themes and male escort services.

TalonNews.com <http://talonnews.com/> and GOPUSA.com are both registered to Endeavor Media Group LLC, operating from Post Office Box 891354 in Houston, Texas. The phone number provided is 999-999-9999. The registrant for a series of web sites, including Jeffgannon.com, Theconservativeguy.com, Exposejessejackson.com, Militaryescorts.com, militaryescortsm4m.com, and hotmilitarystud.com is Bedrock Corporation of 4001 Kennett Pike in Wilmington, Delaware. Bedrock is owned by Jim Guckert, the apparent real identity of Jeff Gannon. The administrative contact for Bedrock was listed as "J. Daniels," possibly another alias.

After the Gannon story broke, militaryescorts.com and hotmilitarystud.com were redirected to a secure log-in site at Cupertino, California-based www.dividezero.net/ <http://www.dividezero.net/>, which was registered to GKG.Net, which had a contact email in College Station, Texas, the home of Texas A&M University and the George H.W. Bush presidential library. Dividezero.net had a secure log-in window but no subscription information. Experts who track illegal content on the web, including child pornography, report that such sites are common where log-in information is provided separately by regular mail so that the identities of subscribers cannot be easily tracked by online enrollment and entry of credit card information.

Gannongate is reminiscent of a huge political scandal that surfaced in Nebraska in 1989 when it was learned that Lawrence King, the head of Franklin Community Credit Union in Omaha and a rising African American star in the GOP (he sang the national anthem at George H. W. Bush's 1988 nominating convention in New Orleans), was a kingpin—along with top Republicans in Nebraska and Washington, DC, including George H. W. Bush—in a child prostitution and pedophilia scandal. King was later convicted and jailed for fraud but pedophile and prostitution charges were never brought against him and other Nebraska Republican businessmen and politicians.

The scandal, investigated by Nebraska State Senator Loran Schmit, his assistant John DeCamp (a former GOP state senator), State Senate Committee investigator Gary Caradori, and former CIA Director William Colby, reached the very top echelons of the George H. W. Bush administration and GOP. Child prostitutes from Boys Town and other orphanages in Nebraska as well as children procured from China were reportedly flown to Washington for sexcapades with Republican politicians. GOP lobbyist Craig Spence and a number of GOP officials in the administration and Congress were implicated in the scandal, including Labor Secretary Elizabeth Dole's liaison to the White House. Young male members of the military in Washington, DC, were particularly sought after by the prostitution ring. During the early 1980s, a number of naval officers were implicated in a child pornography ring that extended from Oregon to the San Francisco Bay area and to Chicago and Washington, DC. The story about that ring was covered up by then-Secretary ofthe Navy John Lehman.

The Nebraska pedophile scandal was similarly covered up on orders from the highest levels of power in the senior Bush White House. Caradori and his young son were killed in a suspicious plane crash in Illinois in 1990. Colby was found floating dead in the Chesapeake Bay, near his home, in 1996. Craig Spence allegedly committed suicide in 1989. Witnesses, many of whom were abused themselves, were intimidated and subsequently jailed in Nebraska and the investigation of the pedophile scandal eventually collapsed. The entire military aspect of the King-Spence scandal is now being repeated in Washington in Gannongate.

(continued in next post)

posted June 23, 2005 10:19 PM              

Last year, a senior source on the Washington Times editorial staff (the same paper that broke the GOP pedophile scandal in 1989) linked White House Deputy Chief of Staff Karl Rove to gay activities involving top Republican political strategists in Washington, DC.

Gannon (Guckert) has been a major player in GOP and fundamentalist Christian politics in Washington and around the country. In 2004, "Jeff Gannon" was a featured speaker at a Capitol Hill Bible reading sponsored by anti-abortion Operation Rescue head Reverend Rob Schenk. In 1995, Schenk was the spokesman for the American Center for Law and Justice, an anti-abortion group funded by Pat Robertson. Schenk was also a major supporter of former Alabama Supreme Court Justice Roy Moore, who was removed from office for refusing to comply with a federal court order.

Schenk, who attended prayer meetings at John Ashcroft's Capitol Hill apartment after Ashcroft came to Washington in 1994, established his Pentecostal National Community Church at the dilapidated Giddings School in a crime-ridden neighborhood in Southeast Washington. One of his congregants was Ashcroft. The Hill newspaper ran an article on July 30, 2003, about a controversy surrounding plans by the community development Eighth Street Main Streets Project to place park benches in a small triangular park at 8th and I Streets in Southeast Washington, opposite the U.S. Marine Corps Barracks. The paper reported that a "community activist" named Jeff Gannon vehemently opposed the park bench plan claiming it would attract "vagrants, alcoholics, and other 'problem personalities.'" The park is located just five blocks from the school where "reporter" Gannon's friend Schenk first located his Pentecostal church.

Gannon hosted a web-based radio program called "Jeff Gannon's Washington," broadcast on his own web site, Jeffgannon.com, and Righttalk.com, a conservative GOP site whose registrant is based in Watsonville, California. Gannon's only journalism credentials were his attendance at a two-day seminar at the Leadership Institute's Broadcast School of Journalism in Arlington, Virginia. The head of the Leadership Institute is Morton Blackwell, a former Reagan administration official and a one-time head of the College Republicans, a post that Karl Rove also filled.

Gannon seemed particularly interested in South Dakota politics. GOP Senate candidate John Thune appeared on Gannon's radio webcast program. On February 4, 2004, while being served softball questions by Gannon, Thune called Daschle an "obstructionist and antagonist to President Bush."

According to Roll Call, Gannon also served as an official of the Free Speech Foundation, an organization that helped defend ProBush.com from a lawsuit by former South Dakota Democratic Senator James Abourezk. The web site features a "Traitor's List" that includes Abourezk. The former senator and Navy veteran sued ProBush.com for defamation. Abourezk asked for $5 million in damages and a public apology after sending a cease and desist letter to the web site owner, a 21-year old suburban Philadelphia resident named Mike Marino, who registered the site using a post office box address in West Point, Pennsylvania. After Abourezk's lawsuit threat, Gannon came to Marino's assistance. Other names on the Traitor's List include President Jimmy Carter, Susan Sarandon, Viggo Mortensen, Al Gore, Hillary Clinton, Howard Stern, John Kerry, Edward Kennedy, Martin Luther King III, Rep. Cynthia McKinney, Michael Moore, The Dixie Chicks, and former Democratic Rep. Gary Condit of California.

Gannon was also wired into the neo-conservative American Enterprise Institute (AEI). He wrote a pro-Iraq war article for the March 1, 2004, issue of their magazine, American Enterprise. AEI employs such ardent neo-conservative figures as Richard Perle, Michael Ledeen, and Lynne Cheney. Ironically, many of Gannon's articles were anti-gay rights, such as one that insinuated that John Kerry's "pro-homosexual platform" would make him the nation's "first gay president."

Wayne Madsen is a Washington, DC-based investigative journalist, author, and columnist. He is the author of the forthcoming book, "Jaded Tasks: Big Oil, Black Ops & Brass Plates" and wrote "Genocide & Covert Operations in Africa: 1993-1999" (Mellen Press).

posted June 23, 2005 10:42 PM              

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jeff gannon, jeff gannon? Oh right, Jeff Gannon. Very interesting guy who actually asks questions in the press corp briefings which have some connection to reality. --jwhop

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quote:

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"Senate Democratic leaders have painted a very bleak picture of the U.S. economy. Harry Reid was talking about soup lines. . . . How are you going to work with people who seem to have divorced themselves from reality?"--jeff gannon

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posted June 24, 2005 03:19 AM              

Get a life people.

How about the war isn't that more important? Sheesh.

posted June 24, 2005 06:20 PM            

quote:

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There will presumably always be someone here to discuss issues logically and reasonably. But if it's rock throwing you prefer, someone will accommodate you.

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posted June 24, 2005 06:40 PM            

No need for you to waste any time here Acoustic. You've already wasted enough with your lying, illogical, irrational and unreasonable attacks on the United States.

posted June 24, 2005 06:42 PM            

quote:

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Nope.. I just call it like it is Saturn. I am not making assumptions I am making a judgement call based on the available information.

I cannot help the fact that you are not willing to see two people that are touching in that manner as being intimate (again, I am not saying intimate in a sexual manner- but also in a manner such as would be consistent with Aunt Bea talking to her beloved nephew).

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The available information is the same for all of us, Piduau. I think you're just being stubborn. No one here has any political motivation to defend Clinton. When people like myself say that the picture can't be construed as a moment between lovers we're just saying don't jump to conclusions, because the information is not available.

quote:

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Here is another question "Would you allow a mere acquaintance touch you in that manner? Would it bother you for say, a colleague to take your face with both of his hands to just whisper something into your ear?"

I would bother me if ANYONE did that with the exception of someone I am very close to or on close terms with.

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I would certainly let someone touch me in that manner. No, it wouldn't necessarily be comfortable for me, but if another person thinks it's ok to touch me like that I'm not going to make a big deal over it.

There's all kinds of things that some people would do, and others would consider inappropriate. Like you don't like cussing, but other people think it's fine. People are different, and most people accomodate other people unless they've really crossed the line. I've even let another guy kiss me before, because he wanted to be funny and I knew it. It's not a big deal.
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posted June 24, 2005 06:48 PM            

quote:

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"Would you think this was an intimate exchange if it involved Brad Pitt and Angelina Jolie? Would you allow someone to cup your face and whisper in your ear if you did not have a close relationship with them? Would you be defending Bush if it was HIM that was in the picture with another woman that was NOT his wife?"

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No, Yes, and Yes!

posted June 24, 2005 06:52 PM            

Just because a person may perceive something different than another does not necessarily change the definition of the entity.