posted February 20, 2008 12:56 PM              

quote:

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"It also helps to confirm certain perceptions I have had about some people who pretend to carry their suffering with such grace, when, really, they are just scared to put it out there and ask for understanding. I'm not thinking so much of you when I say this, but of a handful of other people I know. And I find myself becoming like those people; agreeing with their reasons for keeping silent. Because I have seen my own pain trivialized, and co-opted for the purpose of promoting someone's pet ideology. The difference is that, if I keep silent, I wont pretend that it is me being graceful and composed."

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How can you really be sure these people are simply pretending to be graceful and composed? Maybe they have found other ways of dealing and it doesnt involve having to find someone else to communicate it to.

quote:

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"I'll just be burying it, until I can find a trustworthy outlet. "

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Maybe other people find other outlets that arent other people and it doesnt mean they are repressing or pretending. A trustworthy being they have found.

quote:

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"And isnt that what we all really need; a good friend, someone intelligent and empathetic, who will listen and show concern; who will leave the scalpel in its sheath; and not answer us with loaded ironic quips suggesting their own superiority. Thats the kind of friend I need, at least."

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Is that really what "we all really need"? Is it possible that some people have found that friend within themselves? Over the years i have found myself to be my own best friend and counselor. I'm not better in any way but different and not so different really as i'm sure there are many others who have found the same.

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"The picture you paint is sad, and it is more common than any of us really know, because people dont talk about it."

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I find talking about feelings or a seemingly negative situation acutally worsens it, makes it stronger. If someone finds that talking to others gives them relief then they should do so, but that doesnt mean that way is best for all. And doesnt automatically mean that these people are repressing things by not doing so. Maybe they find their own mind the best place to deal with their problems. Words are powerful things and some are very careful with the ones they are putting out there. They may be processing them; diving deeper into these thoughts and their own perceptions of how things really are and what is behind their "feelings" and finding out what's behind them before letting them out to another prematurely. Some have noticed where this often brings you.

Maybe once they "forget" what they know or have spent time trying to understand, they are also able to remind themselves too, over a little bit of time, and spilling it all to others changes everything because feelings and thoughts change so fast. Often what you tell people becomes set in some stone and they dont let go of what you said as easy as you may have. They start to think they know you because you told them you were suicidal or whatever once. You get stuck in a past of yourself with them even if you happened to have worked through it, a part of them will still always see you "in that light". If you pick yourself up and dust yourself off, people think maybe you didnt mean what you told them about your feelings or where you were at the other day. Maybe you actually learned something on your own see it was unnecessary to bring another's mind into it. Now you have them to deal with and try and explain where youre at to.

All i'm saying is that i've learned some lessons in taking this approach. Others will deal with things their own way. Just dont be so quick to judge where these "quiet people" are at.

quote:

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"Maybe, when we practice that enough, we find that we dont need someone else as much as we thought we did. But its hard work. And its easier to love another person, or, at least, to show the signs of love for them, than it is for ourselves."

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Not everyone is afraid of hard work. What's the difference between loving yourself and another really? One's easier? If you make it so in your mind, sure.

quote:

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Really, all we want is someone who understands, and who will be gentle with us.

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Is that really all everyone is searching for? IMO it is not.

I think all we really want to understand ourselves.

And yes, to a certain extent - often even great extent, you can you can understand yourself through others. Who said that truly easy either? That takes brutal honesty and a clear and understanding eye.

posted February 20, 2008 01:01 PM              

quote:

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but the good intention is there

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posted February 20, 2008 01:07 PM            

Thats so wonderfully beautiful and well felt their 26taurus!!! So true for me also!!!

posted February 20, 2008 01:25 PM              

I know what HSC means about desiring that kind of friend.

I know what 26T means about ourselves being our own good friend too.
However, I think everybody needs a good friend as HSC described- one's own company can get boring.

Here is a teacher who can teach us this kind of friendship:

posted February 20, 2008 02:13 PM            

You make some really good points. I sometimes provoke you into making them, because I sense that you see a side of the story which I do not. And, when you speak more than a sentence or two, you rarely disappoint me there. Maybe it is a little reckless or pressumptuous of me, to think I have a right to provoke answers from people, but I've got so much going on, and so many knots to unravel, that, if somebody has an answer for me, it seems to make a lot of sense to just hear it from them, than to do all the inner work you are talking about, on top of all the other problems that I'm constantly meeting with. I do a lot of inner work, examining perspectives that are not my own, on all sorts of issues. Sometimes I miss a spot. I just think we all have tools which others can benefit from, if only we place them within reach. I do tend to speak in absolutes, particularly when I am emotional, and your point is well taken. I should not pressume to speak for everybody, and what everybody wants or needs. And, of course, not everybody's object is to avoid the hard work, lol. I get it. But what I take from a lot of your words is this: Misunderstandings and assumptions are commonplace, but, they are far more likely to occur when we are silent and reticent to communicate. At least when peopel speak up, you can see where they are misunderstanding each other - otherwise, the misunderstandings are still there, whether we confront them or not. You can't keep silent, and then blame others for misunderstanding or assuming things about you. Either you accept that people will misunderstand and make assumptions, and learn to live with that, or, you develop a willingness to make yourself clear and transparent. I think it is probably a general rule that silence leads to more alienation and misunderstanding than speech. Thats how it appears to me, anyway. I could be wrong. Anyway, thank you for showing me another side, which I had not time to consider in the midst of a thousand other considerations. I appreciate it, as always.

posted February 20, 2008 02:20 PM            

LTT,

Well put.

God, I miss my dog.

or is it,

Dog, I miss my god.

posted February 20, 2008 02:46 PM            

"Much unhappiness has come into the world because of bewilderment and things left unsaid."
~ Fyodor Dostoyevsky

However... sometimes, and I've noticed this a lot lately, tact should be taken into account and some things should stay where they belong. I stay silent a lot more than I used to. I watch some people I know speak their minds and alienate a whole room of people. I don't think anyone here (in this thread) has gone too far, but I have seen it, and it scares me a little.

Man, I'm so scared of people sometimes...

Maybe not so much people, but what people's words and actions can do to other people. I can see it in the air around them when it's happening in front of me, kicks my anxiety right up and puts me on alert to sort it out, or at least try to get everyone to understand the other person/where they are coming from better...Does that make sense?

HSC,

posted February 20, 2008 03:41 PM            

26T,

One more thought:

Its not difficult to see other people's lessons;
to see where they are wrong, and we are right.
Our blindspots are often glaringly apparent
to everyone but ourselves, as you know.
But the nature of karma is such,
that what is easy for one person,
is near impossible for another.
No two lessons are alike,
because, in the end,
its not the lesson, but the surrender.
Everybody has something they refuse to surrender.
I think that my biggest faults
are particularly stigmatized in this society,
while, in another place and time,
the same "faults" might be taken for virtues.
Conversely, there are many things celebrated as virtues,
which, in another time and place, would seem to be vices.
In another time and place,
you might find me full of peace of mind;
while here, all my faculties are tested.
In another time and place,
I might find you full of anxieties and escapist urges,
while here you are invited to become what you are.
Of course, we all have to work with the world as it is,
but, some of us are "lucky" enough to be born
into a world that compliments our virtues and vices.
For others, the fall into matter is a deep one.
I was told recently that the nature of the Scorpio experience is this:
If you want to do it, you will meet resistance.
If you dont want to do it, a path will open before you.
Whichever way you turn, all signs point the other way.
This made some sense to me when I heard it.
These are just things that come into mind -
just speculations upon mysteries too great for me to know.
I am in no position to really say who has the harder struggle,
and, like you, I think it is a little foolish to compete,
or to compare two different things without a grain of salt.
But, as you know, I can be very defensive,
and sensitive to the judgements of others.
So I feel I need to put these things out there,
beside all the other considerations we always see,
just to save myself a little heartache,
and to prevent the precipitious judgments of others.
Again, my mind, as always, remains open;
for better or worse.

sincerely,
s

posted February 20, 2008 04:40 PM            

I'm not familiar with that,
but I remember where I heard it mentioned.

I have heard that advanced souls choose
to meet up with a lot of their bad karma in a single lifetime.

Nothing horrific has happened to me,
although there was some trauma, I think,
durring the first week after my birth.
I was born a month premature,
and they had to incubate me for a few days,
and they starved me because I was too weak
to suck from the breast; they figured,
if I got hungry enough, I would make the effort.
Instead, I just starved and got weaker.
Then my mom fed some tube into my stomach
to deliver the milk thataway.
It seems like a small matter, but,
I think problems are telescoped in children,
and the earlier you suffer a trauma,
the more profound and lasting the effects can be.
When you consider that I was deprived of an entire month in the womb
(and that my mother had almost no love for me thereafter),
some of my maternal yearnings make more sense,
as do a lot of my half-baked attempts at manifestation.

But, other than that --
and I'm not sure that really counts, --
nothing too horrible has happened to me.

It's more like a constant, Chinese water torture kind of thing.

I never get a break.

Like what it says at the end of your 'Beloved' post,
about how nice it would be to get a break (in the mind).
Not that I am always confronted with images of graphic violence,
but, I'm always doing some violence to myself, in thought,
or contradicting the merest patch of earth i find to stand on,
and tearing it right out from under my feet.
So I dont seem to make any progress,
because every time I see a path that I might take,
I see just as many compelling reasons to leave it.
I definitely need to open the lower chakras, so,
I'm sort of looking into that right now.

posted February 20, 2008 04:42 PM            

Guess what I'm watching right now?

posted February 20, 2008 05:35 PM              

(this is not a suggestion for you, specifically, mind you, though it is a response to something i found important in your words. sorry in advance if it annoys you. )

The assumptions behind rebirthing is that human birth is traumatic, due to ignorance and misunderstanding on the part of most medical professionals (and parents/family) and that humans never forget their birth, they just repress the memory. Rebirthing-breathwork practitioners believe that in addition to cerebral memory (based in the brain), humans also possess cellular memory, which is distributed amongst the body's cells, tissues, organs etc.

They believe that the trauma suffered during birth, and the specific nature of this trauma, has a deep effect on one's psyche and shapes one's perception and experience of life, self and the world in ways of which one is mostly unaware (For instance, someone born by forceps delivery might rely on others to pull them out of destructive situations.) Practitioners believe it is possible to gain recall of aspects of birth, gestation and early childhood and to release the accompanying emotions; such release can generate a positive paradigm shift and life transformation based on a change in the experiences they believe one subconsciously attracts.

Rebirthing-breathwork teachings state that it can increase in the client or solo practitioner's human potential, inner peace and mental clarity. The practitioner can manage the challenges of life more easily. Believers say those who practice rebirthing-breathwork can gain greater insight into the human condition and the purpose of their existence; a greater sense of their personal relevance to the world.

Human breathing, practitioners say, is almost universally inadequate; virtually all people are suppressing large amounts of emotional, physical and mental "tensions", and require relatively high levels of CO2 in their blood in order to keep these tensions suppressed. They feel that the major causes of all human illness are these accumulated tensions; the practice of rebirthing-breathwork techniques they believe can detoxify the system and release such tensions. They profess that this can cause physiological transformation, to the point where prevention or permanent spontaneous remission from illness becomes possible.

Practitioners feel rebirthing provides a direct, replicatable, physical experience of Divine Love through the saturation of the body with prana.
wikipedia

one practitioner i spoke with a few times, Petrene Soames, has a wonderful website ~

Petrene

her method ~

Rebirthing is about connected breathing. The basis is that we breathe in life "the new," the everything we need, and we breathe out and release everything we no longer need. There are different stages of the rebirthing; it can be a wonderfully powerful, even moving experience. The individual will discover once again his or her own natural breathing rhythms, and at some point, some people may cry or express rage. Others will not. Rebirthing is as individual as the people who experience the session. But after a session it is common to feel very positive, energized, free, or very light. You may feel that the weight that you have been carrying forever is finally gone.

"I work quickly with people, so I can guarantee that in one session, two at the most, I will be able to help you to remove those negative blocks and to move on, even if you have felt stuck for a long time. I have seen in the past a lot of people recommending and offering rebirthing over 5, 6, 7, even 10 sessions. In my experienced opinion, this most certainly is not the best way to proceeed as you bring issues to the surface, and then you leave them until the next session. I feel that it's time to deal with issues there and then get them out of the way, get cleared. So I work within one, maximum two sessions. The difference with my Rebirthing sessions is that - as a top professional psychic - I can instinctively and intuitively know what to do next within the session. I know what is going to work for you as an individual. I am not only following techniques. As a sensitive I look at you as you are going through the session, I see you clearing things, I see how you are doing, what you are clearing, how far along you are with it. I watch your auras, chakras, emotional psychic energy centers, I see if they are blocked, how you clear them, and make sure you are completely back in the here and now at the end of the session. The Rebirthing I offer in my experience is more advanced than what is generally offered."

posted February 20, 2008 10:37 PM              

and i had never noticed, on one of the interior pages, that Petrene had written my name, and the words "Love and best Wishes, May 2002," along with her signature, in artistic and flowing handwriting.

posted February 21, 2008 12:03 AM              

Dont you think we are a fine example of two opposite signs, building a bridge, meeting in the middle and learning about some under-devolped aspects of ourselves? Then taking each other on a mini tour of our own sides of the stream, we grow richer in seeing the beauty of another's landscape and how theyve been tending their gardens. Thank you for being patient with me and taking the time to be contemplative and considerate.

quote:

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But what I take from a lot of your words is this: Misunderstandings and assumptions are commonplace, but, they are far more likely to occur when we are silent and reticent to communicate. At least when peopel speak up, you can see where they are misunderstanding each other - otherwise, the misunderstandings are still there, whether we confront them or not. You can't keep silent, and then blame others for misunderstanding or assuming things about you.

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They may be far more likely to occur because of not speaking up, but they still occur oftentimes when you do! At least that is what i have observed. Then again, I am not as articulate or have the way with words that you do. And I dont blame others for misunderstanding or assuming things about me because i keep silent..that really doesnt bother me very much, but! i will speak up about it sometimes when i think it some clarification is needed; as in this case. Most of the time i let them assume what they want because usually they will do just about that anyway. Even after having heard your say.

quote:

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Either you accept that people will misunderstand and make assumptions, and learn to live with that, or, you develop a willingness to make yourself clear and transparent.

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*staring down at feet* Yes, sir.

HSC, seriously. I have accepted that and do live with it. I'm not hard to figure out. If you "know" me, you know me... in an instant. You'll recognize me right away and we'll be great friends. Or you dont, perhaps it will take a little time, but dont expect me to try and make you understand or know me. It's just not my style. I guess i'm a lazy Taurus.

People arent that hard to figure out and they dont scare me anymore either. When you see everyone a little baby in an adult body confused and crying out for the same thing, you cant help but do one thing. When you see the Creator at work behind every set of eyes what do you do?

Okay, i'm going off track now and most will probably perceive that as coming from ego or something. But it's simply how i operate and see. Most of the time anyway.

Where was i going with this...? Oh yes.

quote:

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or, you develop a willingness to make yourself clear and transparent.

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Well, i thought i was. Maybe it's harder to read it that way through a screen.

Thank you for your thoughts, sincerity and a mirror.

posted February 21, 2008 12:08 AM              

quote:

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For others, the fall into matter is a deep one.

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You dont need to tell me that!

I think i broke every bone.