posted August 04, 2006 08:58 PM         

I usually enjoy HSC too.
Sometimes I agee and sometimes I do not.

posted August 05, 2006 12:03 AM         

no way!!

(vegan, yes..and decadent and rich as your chocolate fantasies can conjure up )

love and light to you, sweet Melody...

posted August 05, 2006 12:03 AM         

1 1/2 cups flour
1/2 cup cocoa powder
3/4 cup dry sweetener
1 1/2 tsp baking soda
3/4 tsp baking powder
1/2 tsp salt
1 1/2 cups soy milk
1/3 cup olive oil
1/2 cup nuts (pecans walnuts, etc) chopped

preheat oven to 350 f. in a large bowl, sift together the flour, cocoa, sweetener, baking soda, baking powder and salt. add the soy milk, oil and nuts. stir gently until "just mixed". pour mixture into a lightly oiled pan, and bake 30-35 minutes or until a toothpick comes out clean.

from The Garden of Vegan cookbook

written by punk rock chicks who decided that veganism was important enough in their lives to make up their own little pamphlets of favorite vegan recipes and pass them around at punk rock concerts...the pamphlets became in such demand that they finally published their first cookbook "How it All Vegan" and followed with "The Garden of Vegan." these books are very popular, and some of the best recipes ever, across the board. the latest cookbook is "La Dolce Vegan".

posted August 05, 2006 02:43 AM         

"What is the best consolation in suffering and distress?"

ummmm....decadent vegan brownies....

posted August 05, 2006 03:42 AM         

I apologize for my "I feel sorry for you" remark. I realize how self-righteous this sounds, and I ought to have found a way to avoid the usual connotations that accompany this phrase. I wish only to speak directly, without pretense. I do indeed believe some of you to be ignorant, and I do indeed pity the ignorant. I know I sound like a jerk in saying so, but I am not one to mince words, or parse truths. I will tell you plainly what I see. What's true is true, and, yes, even YOU can be ignorant of a thing or two. If you said to me, "There is no such place as Boston," I would say, "You are ignorant. I have seen Boston, and you have not,". This is me being honest. I realize it is not entirely pleasant to hear it. Still, however many times you say "there is no Boston," or, "the earth is flat," I will be forced to disagree with you. I am not so politically correct as to tip my hat to the conventional wisdom that, if a person believes the world is flat, and this belief brings them joy, then, it is self-righteous to disagree with them, and to insist upon a superior point of view (even if it happens to be one's own).

I would like to point out that, the view I am taking does not so much contradict the views expressed by others, as it includes, and transcends them. The earth does indeed appear flat, to one who stands upon it. But, viewed more objectively, it IS round. Might it just be possible that I stand upon a height, and can see further than some?

((Please, before you get defensive and pass judgement on me, consider the possibility that I am as free of arrogance in this as I am free of false modesty. When something makes me look bad, I am as vocal about that as I am about this. Anyone who knows me will testify to that.))

To put it in other terms, I am not saying there is nothing here shaped like a snake (or shaped like the free will of a man?). I am merely saying that it is not the snake it appears to be, but, rather, the trunk of an elephant (the greater will of God!).

Perhaps some of you can appreciate the truth of this when you hear a perfect example of it, and not merely when you hear it cleverly concealed in a parable?

posted August 05, 2006 03:43 AM         

I have not done the exhaustive research that you have into the densely shrouded and, perhaps, dubious histories of the early Christians, and I cannot comment on what you have said about the man, Paul. However, I often reflect that the illiterate man is frequently the best educated. And I can only assure you that, whoever wrote those words in the Epistle to the Romans was almost definitely a mystic (or, else, paraphrasing a mystic), and not the "Paul" of your histories. Even if it is true that those words were spoken by a weak man (for, to be precise, there is no good or evil, but only strength and weakness), they are no less true. I abide by the Quaker proverb, "Be open to truth, from whatever its source." Even a weak man can speak a profound truth, and I would not presume to label every word out of a man's mouth a lie, simply because he has been known to lie. I will weigh all things by my own judgement, and I would caution you to do the same.

As for detaching from the consequences of one's actions, receiving neither credit nor blame, I must disagree emphatically when you refer to this as denial. Denial is when the fly who sits atop the mast believes himself to be the captain steering the ship. What I have written of is precisely that method which has been advised by all the remembered spiritual teachers of the East, and by any worth remembering in the West. It is to disregard the works of men (that is, to cease to consider whether a man is to be praised or defamed on account of them), in favor of the grace of God, which works all things, the smallest and the greatest. Fearful of sacrificing the individual power you merely seem to possess, you only succeed in forfeiting your access to a power far greater than any you (or I) could ever imagine.

posted August 05, 2006 03:45 AM         

I believe your deification of your own personal responsibility is a golden calf.
It is based on considerations of ego, and not upon transcendant principles.

Although I appreciate the good intention which leads you to be respectful of differing beliefs, I must confess that I am no respecter of persons, and certainly not of any man-made belief systems. There is one truth, and it is apparent in all the workings of nature. The ability to perceive it requires nothing but an open mind, unfettered by preconceived belief structures. And it alone has my allegiance and respect.

The bit about the mountain path zig-zagging was not Eckhart's, but my own, inasmuch as a thought may be said to belong to the one who thinks it. Thoughts come unbidden, and they are all from the same source, for there can be only one. You suggest that a man may stand idle on the path, but I assure you, this rest too is part of the journey. And even resting "too long", and growing weak thereby, is a lesson to be learned, and it is unavoidable for the one who has not yet learned it. The Lord's ways are no less mysterious than this.

I cannot debate Pauline doctrine with you. I do not care how others have interpreted the words in the epistle to the Romans, or tried to reconcile them with words in other epistles attributed to Paul. I understand them instinctively, intuitively. Paul speaks of Oneness in this epistle. He speaks of the Potter, and his unmitigated dominion over the pots. We are vessels, and that is that. Paul says nothing more or less than this, though he explains the point in many ways, from many angles. He does indeed say, "The devil made me do it,". If you disagree with this, you disagree with Paul. Bottom line. But, the thing to remember is that he is not using this as an excuse to actively pursue a sinful life. He is saying that Christ has power to move us too, and we ought to focus our attention on him. He is saying that there is a lesser form of prayer, which is to observe one's own sinfulness, and a higher form, which is to observe the righteousness of God. The lower form leads to the higher. In other words, the fear of evil has led to as many conversions as the love of good. But, contemplating sin, if it is seen as an end in itself, does not lead to contemplating goodness, and is merely a vicious cycle. Wherefore, the law is good, but by the law sin came into the world, and I died. In order to be reborn, we must turn our attention from sin, to goodness. Crushed under the weight of the law, we must turn our attention to grace. For the moral law is meant to be an ideal, and can never be fulfilled by a man; as long as there is any trace of ourselves, we crowd out the action of the will of God, which alone is perfect, and capable of performing the ideal sacrifice. None of us are without sin. Even if we perform enough good actions to be rid of guilt from one moment to the next, we shall never escape this cycle, but always find ourselves subject to ever higher and more difficult demands of virtue. Sooner or later, we all fail, and fail, and fail. The solution is not to brood over our guilt, or make unreasonable demands upon ourselves, but, to rest easy in grace, - the love of God, available to all, without exception. Wicked as we may be, we are never removed from God's love, which is unconditional. Until we accept this love without condition, and love ourselves (through God) without condition, we will never learn to love others without condition, and, so, never fulfill the ideals of the moral law. We must accept ourselves, sinners that we are, and love ourselves, not because of any thing that we are, but simply because we are. That is the begining and end of the law. Not to judge, but to love. For judgment is the antithesis of understanding, and hatred of evil is the craftiest and least well-known of vices, so easily is it mistaken for love of good.

posted August 05, 2006 03:47 AM         

We seem to understand each other fairly well,
but, if you mean what I think you mean, when you ask me,

"Do you see how the two operates?",

I can only reply to you,

"No, sir.
I do not see two.
I only see one."

posted August 05, 2006 03:48 AM         

You raise some terrific questions.

I believe there is a law of love, and a law of violence. I believe that, when we push ourselves to love, we do not strengthen our will to love, but diminish it. I believe that, trying to love when it is not in us to love, is counter-productive. It is relying on our own wills, and not God's. In this sense, a distinction may be made between man's will and God's, but, even so, it ought to be kept in mind that when we follow our own wills (out of ignorance), that is part of our spiritual education, and, also part of God's greater plan. However, to force love is to build a tower of Babel. It may apear to grow strong for a time, but it will topple without the foundation. I would refer here to the story of Martha and Mary, whom Jesus visited. Martha busied herself with "practical" matters, tending to what she believed were the master's needs. She grew resentful of her sister Mary, who sat patiently at the master's feet, enjoying his discourse, and whom she thought to be lazy and good for nothing. Jesus corrected Martha, saying that Mary had chosen "the thing that is needful,". True goodness, or, true love, which accomplishes true goodness, comes freely as a gift of grace. We cannot rush it, or fake it, any more than we can deliver the fragrance of a rose by plucking the bud from the ground before it has so much as blossomed. All our actions to force it only serve to abort it and scatter it to the four winds, and such works, being hollow, will come ultimately to no good. Therefore, I teach the teaching which turns a blind eye to works, and directs one's gaze squarely to the inner secret of grace. A meal which is prepared in anger may feed the body, but it will poison the spirit, and only time-won wisdom will prove which is ultimately nourishing. When the spirit is not in us, we ought to empty ourselves of ourselves, so to speak. We should do as Jesus bids us, and "Wait". If we could be empty of self-will for even an instant, God's will would fill us in that very instant, and empower us to work true goodness, for even the spiritual universe abhors a vacuum. As Gibran's prophet assures us, "If you cannot work with joy, it is far better that you should sit begging on the steps of the church".

posted August 05, 2006 04:41 AM         

"Every angel is terrifying." - Rilke

This is a touchy subject. I feel tempted, as Jesus was tempted by the Pharasees, who wished to trap him, and turn the masses against him, by causing him to defend the likes of a child-rapist. We are dealing with extremes here, and that is touchy. I can only suggest, as Christ did, that he who is without sin should cast the first stone. And that whosoever sins in the smallest thing, will sin in the greater things as well.

Weakness is weakness. It may be argued that some are more weak (more sinful) than others. But, to be perfectly precise, we are no more or less weak than any other, we are only given more or less heavy crosses (temptations) to bear. Some, bent under the weight of an especially heavy cross, appear quite crooked indeed to the mortal eye. Not even a mother could love them. That is, unless she were the Holy Mother.

So, yes, I defend child-rapists. There is no misunderstanding. They too belong to the body of Christ, which spans creation, and from which not a one of us, however vile (in a worldy sense; "I speak as a man"), is separate. God, if it please Him, may take even even the vilest creature and raise him up to sainthood, if only to show His unlimitted power and mercy. His love is unconditional, and therefore nothing is outside of His doing. Not even the brutal rape of a small child.

"Have pity upon me, have pity upon me, O ye my friends;
for the hand of God hath touched me."
- Job 19:21

This is a hard saying,
and not everyone can receive it.
Who has ears to hear, let them hear.

posted August 05, 2006 11:44 AM         

"Hard to see, the dark side is"
~ Yoda

posted August 05, 2006 12:00 PM         

Mt 18:6
But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.

Mt 18:10
Take heed that ye despise not one of these little ones; for I say unto you, That in heaven their angels do always behold the face of my Father which is in heaven.

Mt 18:14
Even so it is not the will of your Father which is in heaven, that one of these little ones should perish.

Lu 17:2
It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones.

we are all children of god/dess.

------------------
How many years can a mountain exist
Before it's washed to the sea?

Yes, 'n how many years can some people exist
Before theyre allowed to be free?

Yes, 'n how many times can a man turn his head,
Pretending he just doesnt see?

The answer, my friend, is blowin in the wind,
The answer is blowin in the wind.

posted August 05, 2006 01:03 PM         

for instance the death penalty..who on earth..can give this? No One..we are to heal the sick..any sickness..not condemn..
heal through understanding and conversation..communicating..the Universal Laws..and goodness. ...GOD..our divinity..and oneness. . .

posted August 05, 2006 01:13 PM         

------------------
~
What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world is immortal"~

posted August 05, 2006 01:18 PM         

Mystic and Fayte,

It saddens me to be so misunderstood,
and to hear these suspicions.
I do not see how what I have said should be
interpreted as snarling or whatever.
I have said "I am right, you are wrong,"
because sometimes I am right and you are wrong,
and I believe this to be one of those times.
Is that arrogant?
I have sought to point out the
hippocracy and irony I see in stark definition.
Is that so defensive?

That is all I have done,
and I am really confused,
and at a loss to understand
how my words could be so misconstrued.

I am not condoning child-rape.
I believe in unconditional love.
I believe that oppressors are victims,
and victims oppress.

These are subtle matters, difficult to understand.
Evil is a means God uses,
because evil exists, and all is of God.
But Evil is not His end.
I never suggested His ends were anything but good.

No, fayte, I am not using.
It is sad that you would think I must have some sick personal motive,
just because I seek to understand such motives in others.
I empathize with everyone,
and defend the least of God's children.
Now I am persecuted for doing so,
but I guess that was only to be expected.

I love you all.
Please forgive me,
if I lack tact,
and have been unable to
express my truth in ways
which you deem loving and rational.
Perhaps I am only trying to make you vomit a serpent.

love,
Stephen

------------------
'Would you know your Lord's meaning in this thing? Know it well. Love was his meaning. Who showed it to you? Love. What did he show you? Love. Why did he show it? For love. Keep yourself therein and you shall know and understand more in the same. But you shall never know nor understand any other thing, forever.'
- Julian of Norwich

posted August 05, 2006 01:24 PM         

by Kahlil Gibran

ONCE IN CAPERNAUM my Lord and Master spoke thus: "Your neighbor is

your other self dwelling behind a wall. In understanding, all walls shall fall down. "Who knows but that your neighbor is your better self wearing another body?

See that you love him as you would love yourself. "He too is a manifestation of the Most High, whom you do not know. "Your neighbor is a field where the springs of your hope walk in their green garments, and where the winters of your desire dream of snowy heights.

"Your neighbor is a mirror wherein you shall behold your countenance made beautiful by a joy which you yourself did not know, and by asorrow you yourself did not share. "I would have you love your neighbor even as I have loved you."

Then I asked Him saying, "How can I love a neighbor who loves me not,and who covets my property? One who would steal my possessions?" And He answered, "When you are ploughing and your manservant is sowing the seed behind you, would you stop and look backward and put to flight a sparrow feeding upon a few of your seeds? Should you dothis, you were not worthy of the riches of your harvest."

When Jesus had said this, I was ashamed and I was silent. But I was not in fear, for He smiled upon me.

------------------
~
What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world is immortal"~

posted August 05, 2006 01:24 PM         

there is no sense in defending OurSelves..for we speak with a pure heart..
some will twist and turn things around..it is not their fault..defensiveness..is a lack of understanding..so they strike..
cahnge words, etc..

MOther and Father GOD know the Truth..and in Love and Light we walk..