posted March 11, 2010 08:22 AM         

At first: Amy, I agree with all of your words, very well said!

My honest thoughts in a nutshell when reading it;

quote:

---

I didn't let her know that I thought it was her fault regardless and that was hard because I can't bottle my feelings at all. So now I have resentment towards her.

---

The fault-story made me very angry.
Her resentment towards you for rejecting her after the cruel event must be immense!
I think you're not aware of the pain you caused by rejecting her after this event, but believe me; if there's no true willingness to share, understand and relief the pain she went through, it will become worse and worse. Even when you come back together again, nothing will be resolved and the resentment will grow without words.
I honestly don't know or I could ever forgive you for this behavior.
I underwent some really painful events in my life and I never got rid of the subcutaneous resentment against the people that rejected me. More worse: at the moment THEY needed me emotionally, I rejected THEM. (Blame my Scorp-moon or Pluto on S/M if you want)
Definitely doomed to die.

Think of this; the world is full of pain and what if we cannot share our (deepest) pain with the one we love?
It's horrible.

Maybe you can ask yourself the question why you didn't tell her about thinking it was her fault. Is it because you know deep down inside of you that those words haven't got any human value?
What if a loved one gets lung cancer, will you reject him because of smoking a whole life, their own fault ?

quote:

---

Ami Ann, you are right. It does hurt my pride, I guess. I couldn't be there to protect her and I feel powerless in the situation.

---

I loved you when reading this, suddenly you became HUMAN!

posted March 11, 2010 09:35 AM         

If you are of the same mindset as this guy - believe that her being asleep in his company meant she asked for what she got - how are you different from him?

If you want to help her, give her this link.

The way she debased herself for you by letting you order her to cut herself, and the way she is letting that man's behavior go unpunished are symptoms of the same sickness: she doesn't value herself.

She wants to be loved and cared for but doesn't know how to get it. Her Leo Moon is the latest degree planet in her chart and the only narrow aspect it forms is an exact square with her Asc. She also has Ceres (nurturing) cnj her MC. She's an emotional person. The square shows life hasn't easily fed her emotional needs. How did her parents treat her?

Her NN is in Taurus. Venus is its dispositor and also rules her 7th house (so partnership is inherently a part of what she needs to learn). Venus is in her 2nd house, the house of self worth and is cnj her Sun and Neptune. It's hard for her to see (Neptune) her own value (2nd house), but that's what she's meant to learn in this life. Once she learns that, she'll have truly loving partnerships.

Instead of loving herself simply for being who she is, she tries to find her lovability by becoming an object for men to dominate - SN cnj Pluto, which is cnj her 12th house Mars. Pluto is also her chart ruler, so this masochism feels doubly natural for her. On the inside, she doesn't feel that men owe her respect.

The incident with her friend's husband may have her questioning this subconscious thought pattern of hers. In her justified disgust at what he did, she's hearing her NN yelling that she deserves better than that.

posted March 11, 2010 04:29 PM         

She obviously seeks out these situations. Case in point: She found Sanchenuss to play out her sexual desires with.

It is really not for me (or anyone else) to judge what someone is turned on by or what they would LIKE to do sexually.

However - as Jane mentioned and as I also mentioned on the previous page.. the following is true for HER - in particular -

quote:

---

Her NN is in Taurus. Venus is its dispositor and also rules her 7th house (so partnership is inherently a part of what she needs to learn). Venus is in her 2nd house, the house of self worth and is cnj her Sun and Neptune. It's hard for her to see (Neptune) her own value (2nd house), but that's what she's meant to learn in this life. Once she learns that, she'll have truly loving partnerships.

---

This is JUST her.

This is not something I am extending to *all* people who are into sm, bdsm or anything else along these lines.

Some people can and do enjoy that sex-style, or life-style and do it with someone who DOES respect them.

I completely see what CPN said earlier:

quote:

---

choking or submissive sex games are just games, but the rest of what you said, makes me think inside she is lonely and has self esteem issues.

---

Yes choking and submissive games ARE just games..

BUT - she has a self-esteem problem. That's the issue here.

MIR and Jane..

You are both saying the following:

quote:

---

The fault-story made me very angry.
Her resentment towards you for rejecting her after the cruel event must be immense!

---

quote:

---

If you are of the same mindset as this guy - believe that her being asleep in his company meant she asked for what she got - how are you different from him?

---

Then I guess you would also feel that I'm not different from him or Sanchenuss.. either..

Because I could easily see her wanting to have this happen with her friend's boyfriend - because it is a taboo situation and it was sexually attractive to her.

I could see her seeking this out intentionally OR letting it happen intentionally.

I could just as easily see her being drugged and raped. Or frozen with fear as Ami mentioned. I could see this happening also.

There is nothing in this thread - no piece of information.. for me to form the belief that Ami has this story "right"... and Sanchenuss has it "wrong".

So I'm a little bit surprised that you are both saying that to Sanchenuss.

I'm not sure what it is about the story that makes you feel certain things occurred in that particular way.. that she was raped..
I can't see anything personally.

What if she was on the couch and dragged his hand towards her.. and led him to her.. you know what..
and basically enticed him to do that.

Do you really see her as someone who is not capable of that.. purely for the sexual satisfaction?

posted March 11, 2010 04:47 PM         

Just judging from this description and assuming that this is the truth, it sounds to me like a cause for a lawsuit.

"This also isn't the first time something like this has happened, which means it seems to be a pattern in her life. In otherwords and I don't mean to sound like a jerk but she seems to be asking for it, if not consciously then unconsciously. I didn't let her know that I thought it was her fault regardless and that was hard because I can't bottle my feelings at all. So now I have resentment towards her."

" I put her down constantly and she would apologize and beg me not to stop talking to her. I understand that this is quite silly over a computer, to me at the time it was a game. What I am about to tell you may seem weird or harsh but I would never allow a person to do this for me now,remember this happened many years ago and I am quite a different person now.
She would take a razor blade or broken glass, whatever I told her to do it with and she would carve my name into her body on cam."

" I knew that she created this scenerio for pleasure"

posted March 11, 2010 04:52 PM         

Here is the original story.. Two lines:

quote:

---

e. Recently she said that she got drunk, fell asleep at one of her friends house and her friends husband stuck his fingers you know where while doing stuff to himself. She said that she was aware of it but couldn't move and she felt disgusted. The story doesn't make sense to me,so I have completely cut myself from her.

---

Ok "She couldn't move"

Does that mean:

- She was too drunk to move?

- She was drugged and paralyzed?

- She was paralyzed with shock and fear?

- She was enjoying it and couldn't bring herself to leave the situation?

"She felt disgusted"

Does that mean:

- It put her off?

or

- It turned her on?

Because with that SN mix.. I would go with "It turned her on"

If she actually *eplained* what happened and if it was posted here.. I could form a more accurate opinion.

But based on just that - how could you all jump on the bandwagon that she's a victim?

S said situations like this happened previously. What if for example - she does particular things - as I mentioned for sexual satisfaction.. and then... tells the story differently because her Capricorn side gets shy about what she did.. and she wants to sound "proper" and lady-like.. so she simply admits no guilt in the situation.

posted March 11, 2010 04:55 PM         

How did that situation come about?

Because I would imagine you guys would've ended up in a conversation beforehand about how you both like pain and power-plays sexually.

And you both got a little bit excited (and went YOOPIE!!) that the other person likes the same thing and you have someone to play with.

posted March 11, 2010 04:56 PM         

I maybe would have agreed with you, if it wasn`t for these little few words: "she felt disgusted".

Also I find it dangerous to use astrology to define "victim" or "not victim".

For now I do not see any reason to doubt that she was telling the truth. Besides we do know this story only "second-hand" through Sanchenuss.

Also, how can "disgusted" mean "turned on"?
(Unless she was lying and trying to cover something up; but why would she tell it Sanchenuss in the first place then? Under what circumstances?).

And YES there are moments in life when you are so shocked, that you can`t move nor react to anything, as a part of you actually has shut down completely and you are reduced to be a mere observer of what is happening around you or with you.

And if that is what has happened to her (which we do not know for sure of course), then it is really GREAT to have so much understanding and compassion from someone who you thought would care for you.

Of course there is always a possibility that she was lying. But why should we assume that?
I mean if someone tells me something on here, I am not automatically assuming they are lying, either (unless there are too many loopholes in their stories).

For now the story being told on here is just consisting of some fragments, which hardly qualify anyone of us to even approach the truth of what has really happened.

posted March 11, 2010 05:03 PM         

If I intentionally did something like that with my friend's bf under her own roof.. I would also feel disgusted - after the fact.

I am not saying THIS is HER.

I am saying that I SEE the potential..

And I simply can't say: You're all right - This was 100% a rape.. and he should be sued.

posted March 11, 2010 05:15 PM         

But I just imagined, that if it WAS a rape, how hard it must be for her now; not only dealing with the rape situation but also with being held "responsible" for it.

It is just ONE possibility out of many. But it is one, and I just really hate to think it could be this way.

posted March 11, 2010 05:18 PM         

As for this: "Also, how can "disgusted" mean "turned on"? "

Well. I think there's sometimes a fine line between repulsion and sexual excitement. In fact, for *some*, repulsion might actually be part of what is considered alluring. It's like there's a personal sense of disgust ABOUT being turned on in the first place. And then self-loathing. So, yeah, I can see the two being linked.

posted March 11, 2010 05:24 PM         

quote:

---

I just imagined, that if it WAS a rape, how hard it must be for her now; not only dealing with the rape situation but also with being held "responsible" for it.

---

That's true.

hmm

I'm confused because there is too little detail.

Normally - I'd imagine if something like that happened.. I'd tell my bf more than "btw I couldn't move while someone did this.. and I was disgusted".

But I guess they had a longer conversation which is not posted.

Obviously certain things are not being said.
If she did explain to S why she couldn't move or what happened.. then I agree that it was not a good idea to break up with her.

posted March 11, 2010 05:27 PM         

Thank you for explaining that!

DD - I just saw the edit now.. When I used the word "victim" I was not thinking about it from an astrological perspective. I was going on what has been said here.. she liked to cut herself.. she was sexually into being choked etc..

ah! I re-read.. I see why you thought that, because I mentioned her Cap side afterwards.

That was really just my astro-hypothesis of what could be the case.

But it was not connected to what I'd said earlier.

quote:

---

I do not see any reason to doubt that she was telling the truth.

---

I don't actually doubt that she was telling the truth. But her truth is not very elaborate (or anyway - the part that was posted here).

I can't interpret it as being "straight forward". I don't see what she said as "clear" or "straight forward".

For example - Sachenuss did not tell us - that she said something like:

"I was raped". "I said no and he continued".. or "I was drugged and abused"

quote:

---

Of course there is always a possibility that she was lying. But why should we assume that?
For now the story being told on here is just consisting of some fragments, which hardly qualify anyone of us to even approach the truth of what has really happened.

---

I do agree with this - very much so.

I was just throwing ideas OUT there.. because I was little bit surprised at the comments made by MIR and Jane and also Ami - where they seem outraged about Sanchenuss' reaction (which MAY be a warranted reaction).

quote:

---

And YES there are moments in life when you are so shocked, that you can`t move nor react to anything, as a part of you actually has shut down completely and you are reduced to be a mere observer of what is happening around you or with you.

And if that is what has happened to her (which we do not know for sure of course), then it is really GREAT to have so much understanding and compassion from someone who you thought would care for you.

---

Completely True.
She could have been paralyzed with fear. I agreed with that and still do and if this happened.. if it was rape.. she would need support right now.

posted March 11, 2010 05:31 PM         

Yes, as I said, we do not have enough information.
Also in what situation, AFTER what situation, did she tell him?
I actually disagree on the breaking up; if he feels resentment towards her (for what reason ever), it is certainly better for both of them in the long run.
Maybe she can go and find someone who really loves her, and he can find someone he really loves.
From the very little I read here it just sounded like more than a bit disfunctional relationship. (of course -a gain, I have to little information; and only S and her could actually judge that relationship).

MVM,

I see what you mean.

posted March 11, 2010 05:41 PM         

quote:

---

I actually disagree on the breaking up; if he feels resentment towards her (for what reason ever), it is certainly better for both of them in the long run.
Maybe she can go and find someone who really loves her, and he can find someone he really loves.

---

posted March 11, 2010 06:57 PM         

"I'm not in the mood to deal your b.s. thanks"

This was my response.