posted March 11, 2010 07:24 PM         

*edited.

posted March 11, 2010 07:54 PM         

S -

I'm kind of wondering whether she told you this to get a jealous reaction - so that you move there and make sure she is *all* yours. I don't know - It was just a hunch.. due to the timing of her telling you.

I'm still with DD on this:

quote:

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I actually disagree on the breaking up; if he feels resentment towards her (for what reason ever), it is certainly better for both of them in the long run.
Maybe she can go and find someone who really loves her, and he can find someone he really loves.

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You said..

quote:

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I don't why I have such an inclination to say these things or even feel these things.

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Why? Probably because there is no other woman *there*. And you live in a small town.. so there aren't many options either.

MVM -

quote:

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I think speaking about sexual stuff when she's unloading all this stuff on you is a bit...well, weird.

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I agree. I think you should keep it to yourself S.

This may have been a real rape situation and if so - She won't like hearing these things now.

posted March 11, 2010 08:26 PM         

I find their relationship toxic, but I understand you saying - well nothing is perfect etc..

quote:

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It is better to give your heart and lose.
I have given my heart and if it gets broken, I won't regret it.

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But what if you're not "in love" and you're only sexually attracted?

Because that's how I see him.

I mean I read your words.. and I think to myself - these words suit the story of two people who are really in love.

posted March 11, 2010 08:33 PM         

MVM - Yes, that's how it comes across to me.
"Love" - Relationshp-y "Love" is more focused on the personality. They're very focused on the physical.
He said earlier that they have nothing in common.

And I also know what you meant when you said it was manipulative.

S said: "She threatens suicide a lot when we take breaks."

That's a red flash light, really.
My male friend (and ex bf) had a gf who constantly told him she was going to kill herself.
Whenever he was about to do something that she was not ok with - like going interstate for his job for example.. she'd say that.

She also made up other things but that was the main one she always went back to and he always gave in to that.

It took him years to break up with her because he was scared to leave her. She said she needed him and she is killing herself if he leaves.

posted March 11, 2010 10:31 PM         

Ami

posted March 11, 2010 11:48 PM         

Bring it on.

The incident happened almost 2 months ago. We haven't spoken in almost 1 month. Then I send her the text messages about wanting to submit to her sexually in the texts on page 4 and this is her response, now.

Katrina: Download the song, I hate everything about you, its to you.

posted March 12, 2010 01:23 AM         

Katrina: W.e. Just stop texting me. That gay song shud give u the hint.

Me: You texted me first, remember? You have no idea the changes that are going on in my head right now but they are showing me things and I see the games that you play,that we played, and I still want to love you. I want to teach you to love yourself and to stop playing the games where you get satisfication from men hurting you.

Me: It is time that you realize that you are a special person and to stop listening to all of the ******** from the idiot men in your past, me included.

Katrina: Thats nice blake. I wud prefere if we stopped texting tho. Jus cause i text u first dosnt mean i want u back.m u ****** up. U lied. u were in the wrong n u were the one u that ****** me over.

Me: Im in a posisition where I could see which way you go with how I react. You can blame me if you want, I will accept that but you have to stop playing these games with yourself.

Katrina: Nice that so callded see my games n stoop texting me (this is when I can tell shes either drinking or making me think that she is drinking but more than likely she really is drunk, she usually doesn’t play like this

Me: You know that I can heal you and that is why you are pushing me away, you are afraid of what I know. We had past lives together and I am the one who can show you how important you are. I am always here for you. I always love you.

Katrina: Fuk off nlakr i wish i never met u or knew u. Amll u did was hurt me. It was never worth it. Im dokne with it id ratjer lie3 alone

Me: Katrina, I love you dont let those negative demons keep you from realizing that.

Katrina: Kisut **** off blake. I dont need this right now. I have enough going on

This is really hard on me. Im going through a great spiritual change in my life and I am trying to help people in anyway I can but these are the times when I feel like maybe the battle can't be won. Honestly, I am not as bad as she paints me out to be. If you know the story, this was a long distance relatioship and I think that I have a lot of projections thrown on me all at once. In the beginning I would put her down in text over a computer but when we met I had matured and was a complete gentleman. Then she wanted me to live with her and this started. I really want to help her but it is feeling like I can't. I can deal with people blaming me and throwing insults at me because I understand that it is projection but it is hard for me to weed through all of this without any past life insight.

posted March 12, 2010 07:06 AM         

S - it's up to you like I said. We're all just chiming in advice.

Personally - if I was in your shoes.. this would be so over it couldn't catch a bus back to over. Purely because I find it toxic for you both.

posted March 12, 2010 07:51 AM         

it was the 1st time i red this thread.

on looking at your char i can say that you need someone that cares for you,that loves you and nurishes you ( you have venus anc NN in cancer).

you have a stellium in libra which can make you fond of beauty and arts and of interesting people.people that can make you wonder and keep your interest.

your moon is in scopr so you also need and enjoy good sex.and a woman that knows how to fulfill you in bed(as your moon is also cj IC),these needs of yours are also attacted to your deepest core.

that is why maybe you feel the need to send her those messages about your sexual needs.?

your dsc is in aqua however.you need to have plenty of freedom and space in your relationships.you enjoy a woman which is a free spirit,not someone who drags you down or makes you feel trapped or pressured.

on looking at your charts together,this is what i see:

her mars is cj your moon but cj your IC - there is here sexual attraction but her mars on your ic is not easy and certainly not an ideal thing to have in a relationhip.you will always feel pressured by her,intimately,and at your deepest core.

you might been drawn to her cause her sun/ven/uranus are falling into your 5th :the house of fun and romance.but...it is like Vapor said:this is in your sn..AND SN relationships most of the times draggs the person down.cause you should be heading torwards your NORTH NODE,not your South node.

yes,the sn is about past lives too byt in this case i just see that lessons are to be learned here,and moved on.

cause i didnt see here that your relationship with her,has made you feel fullfilled in your cancerian needs,did it?

also nothe this:your kiron is cj her DSC:quiron is the wounded healer.i see here enormous possibility of wounds for you and for her.

quiron needs to open wounds in order ot heal,but i dont see in the charts good aspects for this healing to occur.i see mostly hurtings.

i cant see clearly cause i dont know the orbs and degrees byt isnt your sun/merc kikunx her stellium of venus/sun/neptune?

ai gree with Vapor on this one...i see more about sex here and less about Love.nothgin wrong if that is what you both want but..doesnt seem the case.

and also something very important:seems that there are doubts to her story from your part...isnt it?if your heart is not sure,than that just means that trust is not there either,and how can there be happiness if trust isnt there?

long.distance relationships are hard yes.im in one for almost 4 years now.but those lkind of conections only last if the bond is strong and deep and loving.if Trust is an issue,better let go before its too late,and you become more attatched.the more time you let pass by,the more you keep thinking about "if´s".....

posted March 12, 2010 09:43 AM         

To S., my honest thoughts in black;

Me: You texted me first, remember? You have no idea the changes that are going on in my head right now but they are showing me things and I see the games that you play,that we played, and I still want to love you. I want to teach you to love yourself and to stop playing the games where you get satisfication from men hurting you.

You sound like a God but you don’t act like one - It’s not only the concrete rejection after the event but also the meaning of the words right now, which say there are games going on. I can see she is dealing with real true deep painful emotions while you are making a GAME of it! Can it be more worse?

Me: It is time that you realize that you are a special person and to stop listening to all of the ******** from the idiot men in your past, me included.

Suddenly you’ve seen the light! You say: my previous words were a mess! But again; your current words are likely even more mess. She can’t take you seriously when making a blind God of yourself.

Katrina: Thats nice blake. I wud prefere if we stopped texting tho. Jus cause i text u first dosnt mean i want u back.m u ****** up. U lied. u were in the wrong n u were the one u that ****** me over.

Lied? Okay, there’s something I miss here, I guess.

Me: Im in a posisition where I could see which way you go with how I react. You can blame me if you want, I will accept that but you have to stop playing these games with yourself.

Again; You see games, she is HURT. There are rose colored glasses on your head. She is not only dealing with a harsh reality but also fighting against the blind that aren’t capable to see it.

Katrina: Nice that so callded see my games n stoop texting me (this is when I can tell shes either drinking or making me think that she is drinking but more than likely she really is drunk, she usually doesn’t play like this

That’s what I mean.

Me: You know that I can heal you and that is why you are pushing me away, you are afraid of what I know. We had past lives together and I am the one who can show you how important you are. I am always here for you. I always love you.

There we go again; you can’t heal her, every word of you exhales that (every word of her underlines it). So, she knows, while you are so sure of yourself that you can and even think that SHE knows you can. They call that a self-absorbed blind God. You don’t see reality, you make your own rose-colored mental reality. But for the most we are a physical reality with feelings, emotions that need to be heard!

Katrina: Fuk off nlakr i wish i never met u or knew u. Amll u did was hurt me. It was never worth it. Im dokne with it id ratjer lie3 alone

Things in life are in process. A human can take a lot but there is also a limit on how much we can bear. It wouldn’t surpise me if this particular moment in life shows the drop that makes the bucket overflow.

Me: Katrina, I love you dont let those negative demons keep you from realizing that.

There’s one thing that needs to be realized; back to earth, with your feet on the harsh ground and take her seriously. She’s saying sooo much and you don’t even hear it! It reminds me of that song..... so sad,

...

And in the naked light I saw
Ten thousand people, maybe more.
People talking without speaking,
People hearing without listening,
People writing songs that voices never share
And no one dared
Disturb the sound of silence.

...

posted March 12, 2010 12:31 PM         

quote:

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It is really not for me (or anyone else) to judge what someone is turned on by or what they would LIKE to do sexually.

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Personally I like to feel all parts of myself during sex, including being used, using him, submitting, dominating, losing control, maintaining control. I find it healthy and arousing to live and explore all that I am.

Wanting only to be dominated sexually doesn't at all mean that a woman doesn't value herself. She could simply not be that versatile sexually and gets off only on that feeling of serving and/or losing control. There's nothing about liking that type of sex that means a woman believes she fundamentally is worthless and deserves to be used by every man. On the contrary, by seeking what gets her off, she's showing that she deserves to have her own will respected and fulfilled.

quote:

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quote:Her NN is in Taurus. Venus is its dispositor and also rules her 7th house (so partnership is inherently a part of what she needs to learn). Venus is in her 2nd house, the house of self worth and is cnj her Sun and Neptune. It's hard for her to see (Neptune) her own value (2nd house), but that's what she's meant to learn in this life. Once she learns that, she'll have truly loving partnerships.

This is JUST her.

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Exactly. Everything I said was meant to be taken as about her. I saw her relationship with S and the way she's handled her friend's assault as reflecting her own particular issues as shown in her chart.

With this girl, I see her attraction to being dominated/acceptance of being dominated as a symptom of not truly valuing herself and a method for getting love. I described how her chart shows this to me. Valuing herself doesn't mean she has to let go of her SN. It just means that she'll be using her SN from a place of self-love. Self-love doesn't deny the full range of sexual expression. It opens it up, makes it more fulfilling than before.

As for what her friend's husband did...

She said she felt disgusted and couldn't move. That paralysis is a typical reaction when something traumatic happens. I probably don't need to point out that's where the expression "going to a happy place" comes from. Rather than deal with it, the person goes into denial and waits for it to stop. Fighting back would instantly destroy denial.

People freeze over much less severe traumas than this! I remember my ex boyfriend who was uncomfortable when people around him cried. The first time I cried in front of him, he practically went rigamortis! He froze until the moment was over because he didn't know how to handle it.

I think she didn't know how to handle the situation because she doesn't yet know if she really deserves to have her body respected by a man. I can relate to the question in my head being - maybe I asked for this? Maybe I deserve this in some way? Maybe this is who I am? Wondering if she deserves it doesn't mean she wants it. There's also confusion from complexity, since she does truly find it sexually arousing to be dominated. That doesn't mean that she wants any guy to do that to her! Part of valuing herself is believing she has the right to say who can use her.

Even if she subconsciously wanted it to happen, from the outside, her behavior didn't grant the man permission and therefore didn't mean she asked for it. Who among us has gotten drunk and fallen asleep in the company of male friends? I have. And that behavior certainly didn't mean that the man now had permission to do whatever he wanted with my body. If we say that by behaving like that she asked for what he did, then aren't we all asking to be touched sexually when we do that? We could embellish this situation with our own imagined facts - she pulled his hand towards her, she consciously sent him signals all night that her body was his toy - but none of those are part of her story. Why assume they're true? Why not go by what she said and find the truth in that?

You're assuming that she was sexually excited by the prospect of him assaulting her, and so wanted that to happen. That she behaved as she did (drank, fell asleep) so that she would have the thrill of him assaulting her. Her disgust was at her own desire for being abused.

I'm assuming that she woke, was justifiably disgusted at being taken advantage of by someone she didn't want, and froze because she doesn't yet believe she deserves better. She doesn't yet believe she has the fundamental right to choose who gets to use her body like a toy.

If this is a pattern in her life, I see it as her subconsciously seeking out opportunities for her to deal with her Nodal issue and grow into her NN. Growing doesn't mean rejecting the SN. If anything, it intensifies and strengthens the SN because then it can be used in a way that fulfills the person and makes them happy. (Something all types of sexual expression and relationship behavior can do.)

posted March 12, 2010 02:56 PM         

I avoided mentioning that as a subconscious thing.. Because what I was saying is that it is a real possibility in my mind.. from what I have read here and considering the things she is sexually interested in - including what was said on another thread (posting naked pictures of herself online etc).. that she quite consciously wanted this to happen and consciously *started* it - because it was a very taboo situation - since he is her friend's boyfriend and the friend was actually *under the same roof* at the same time (so it was also a "dangerous" situation: they could get caught in the act).

So I'm not actually stipulating that it was a subconscious desire.

And I'm definitely not assuming or saying that the version(s) I described is/are the case.

I was saying that I'm kind of surprised that you guys are assuming that it was rape.. when - from what we are told here.. I couldn't personally make that assumption.

As I said - I see it as a possibility.

She MAY have frozen.

But the whole "I couldn't move" - was not explained.

And considering the fact that it has happened previously.. Considering the fact that she habitually threatens suicide.. and also considering the context in which she started telling him about this - I'm also not sure whether her behaviour is "manipulative" in general.

Because I have seen this kind of thing ^ with my ex's gf.. and I know for a fact that in her case - she was manipulating.

I DO NOT at all believe this girl *is* lying or changing facts or omitting facts altogether. I have no way to know that as I said to DD. But I see it as *possible*.

If Ami - yourself and DD.. and MIR .. whoever else..
If you all said - "Sanchenuss from what you have said and considering the history and considering you were told almost nothing about this situation - you have good reasons to question it".

Then I would have told you all that you are going with ONE possibility.. and that she may well have been raped, and it wouldn't be fair for him to assume that she was not.

But since everyone is assuming she was raped and that S is just as bad as the guy who did it – for questioning her..
I thought I should throw in my two cents about it.

(Because I also believe that while he has no reason to assume she was.. he likewise has no reason to assume she was not - and while he is in this situation, it would be a better idea to be there for her..
But he has already cut contact for a month - so there is no way to erase that now)

I am not at all convinced either way. I am completely 50 50 about this girl - when it comes to *this* situation. I don't have enough information from this thread to feel or think otherwise. I have never met her or spoken to her.. We have not heard the story from her.

:edit: I am not - however - 50 50.. about their relationship, which I believe would be best dissolved (but this is just my take.. and really my take or anyone else's shouldn't matter as much as what they both *want* to do)

posted March 12, 2010 03:29 PM         

No one can 'heal' anyone. That's like thinking a person can change another person.
Fairyland talk. It doesn't happen. Unless the two people are COMMITTED to being together, the healing won't begin or happen!

"I would put toes in---not jump with the whole body."

Yeah, that's what he's been doing, isn't it. That is actually to me part of the problem. Don't get involved with someone like this unless you're ready to commit. The lack of commitment has already been pointed out as something she has an issue with as well. Him being 'lazy' and not committed enough to be with her. All that. So I suggest no more nibbling. Either bite or don't.

She has some serious issues. He must have some too in order to be hooked into this back and forth stuff. All this texting/having the last word. Games.
There are some big power struggles going on in this and it's also partially because only 'testing out the waters' with toes. If you want to explore the relationship, then plunge in and see if it works. If it doesn't then it doesn't. Two people going around in circles in a situation like this will just keep going in circles. A decision has to be made.
Either **** or get off the pot, because this is not a relationship to keep toying with.

Shouldn't the bottom line here be whether he WANTS to be WITH her or not? All this diversion of things that have happened to her sexually is irrelevant to me in the scheme of things. I know I'm not winning points by saying that, but if he were in love with her and sure about his decision then he would be with her, period. He would simply be there for her during this whole terrible time instead of questioning whether any of this stuff actually 'happened' or not. Who cares really in the end whether she's telling the truth or not. She obviously is in need. If you don't fulfill that need of being there for her, then you don't want her! When you love someone you give them the benefit of the doubt somewhat, I would think lol.

posted March 12, 2010 03:42 PM         

quote:

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Shouldn't the bottom line here be whether he WANTS to be WITH her or not?

In situations that are so thoroughly complicated the best thing to do is simplify. So simplify. Make a decision and stick with it.

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Very true!

But when it comes to this:

quote:

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When you love someone you give them the benefit of the doubt somewhat

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