posted July 06, 2016 11:22 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Mergoatsun:
I feel like each sign has a dark side though. Would it be alright if I made a thread about that? Sag is ruled by Jupiter (which can contribute to beliefs and spirituality) and with everything there is a ying and yang. In balance Sagittarius suns are happy and chipper, out of balance Sags are out of control and have strange lives that are out of sync with traditional moral beliefs

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posted July 06, 2016 01:14 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by LittleBlackCat:
[b]continued below...
I did not have to study them long or extensively to catch any of this. Which brings me back to astrology. This behavior is clearly unusual but people overlook it completely. Nobody seems to see it for what it is. Jupiter does a great job of expanding their charm / talent to a blinding degree. The way you described their closeness seems to be how most people interpret it (just an ultra-close bond). The thing is, I can tell that they really do have a genuinely close bond / connection (it shows in their synchronization), but the incestuous behavior is not actually a part of that. If anything, it is an extension of a perverse power struggle related to Pluto that actually hurts their bond. The real bond that they have essentially suffers under the force of this unhealthy abuse-based vice. There is no love in the touching / perverse acts that you see. Via interviews it is clear Laurent has deep feelings of inadequacy and does not always feel he measures up to his brother. He does not feel like the very likable nor more talented twin. He struggles for attention a lot. Though Larry is quieter, he is generally well-received and admired. That’s where the rivalry and “I want to kill my twin” stuff comes from.

He seems to try and compensate by being the boss, as in “You may be more liked and dance better, but I control you, I own you. I win the psychological war.” Sag is clever / manipulative that way (though it is hardly mentioned). He is aware that he is abusing his brother and himself but it is the only thing he is sure he has control over. The incestuous stuff gets him the attention from people he longs for as well as the power to finally be the stronger more dominant one in something that involves Larry. Then of course there is the sick reality that there probably exists a temporary fleeting feeling of support from their “intimacy” smh. This behavior and everything leading up to it clearly has it’s roots in abuse (that only got worse with “fame”). Everyone knows you usually have to do some sick stuff to make it in the entertainment business. A lot of people (men and women alike) have used / shared them before discarding them. After a while it takes a toll. The spirit becomes weakened and in that weak / morally corrupt state who do you think their tortured plutonian moons will turn to for “comfort”? Each other (and in the most warped way possible). So there is a lot at play here. However, as Sag they will probably continue this vicious/destructive cycle without anyone noticing a thing. Sag can be indulgent, wild, and rebellious (whether in secret or openly) and this dark side of Sag may prevent them from ever breaking free from it all. Turning to drugs or going generally insane is also a high possibility (Dmx, Britney, Raven Symone, Sinead, Lisa Fishcer, etc.).

These guys are older than I am but seem mentally stunted (another common sign of trauma). Finding out they were Sagittarians was truly a prompt for investigation. After studying the sign of Sag and analyzing various aspects of this (and other ppl/ scenarios), it really shed light on overlooked things regarding the human-beast of the zodiac. The twins are Caribbean like me (so I kind of took the situation personal). It broke my heart to see an extension of my clan so weakened and morally shattered despite all of their talents. Very fitting for Sag though if you think about it (as sad as it is). An abundance of gifts (jupiter expanded charm, dancing, ability, etc.) but also expanded indulgences / taboos of all kinds. Astrologers really need to talk more about this.[/B]

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posted July 06, 2016 03:55 PM              

quote:

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Originally posted by BeholdAstarte:
I didn't watch the video, I just said that because from what I gathered from watching them was that since larry was a bit more quiet and to be comes across a bit more "dark" and Laurent comes across more spazzy and talkative that larry could have a more subtle dominance.
but I see what your saying and it makes a lot of sense and once again I didn't notice it in that kind of light of dominance or jealousy or whatever. I have heard them say in an interview that they didn't have time for relationships they only really had time for eachother and it came across like they really didn't want to be with anyone else because they were too invested in each other.
are the les twins Caribbean but from france?

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It seems my post may have come across as "No no no you are wrong! Laurent is dominant NOT Larry", but that was not the intent at all . That's something one of their fans might do but I'm just a scientist / analyst. I mainly went over their relationship dynamic to further illustrate the basis of the thread (how the darker side of Sag can play out). I wanted to emphasize that the overlooked aspects of Sag are indeed very real.

What you mentioned about Larry is actually true (the dark reservation). It seems to basically be Laurent with the dark actions and Larry with the dark aura (which can speak volumes). Note the more detached less emotional nature I talked about in Larry. Laurent is definitively more dominant physically but it's very possible that in trying to dominate Larry, he is actually giving Larry a different sort of "dominance" over him. Larry has literally stated in interviews that Laurent has power over him (he described it as dangerous and draining). However, it often does start to seem like Laurent grows increasingly dependent and attached to the whole choas while Larry seems increasingly detached and emotionally uninvolved.

Nontheless, all I know is that the entire thing is evil and will not end well (regardless of the specifics). Should've been a little tougher with more integrity. I've heard of them for years prior to my these observations but had never really seen any of their stuff (just the occasional cameos in Beyonce videos). If I had ever actually seen their dances there would be no way I could overlook the signals. Yep, they are Caribbeans (of Guadeloupean heritage) who were born in France. They can even do Caribbean style dances. Their bloodline probably granted them dual citizenship as well (which is what I have with my island and America). Anyway anyone doing that kind of weak behavior is pathetic. I love dancing and musicality in general, so I really do think the talent / skill with music is awesome but people need to stop condoning this mess. Young people (and even some adults) idolize these damaged individuals and that's dangerous. They won't get another view from me though. I've already got all I needed to from my analysis and feel I'm better at astrology / human psychology because of it. I also hope others benefited from the analysis as well and now have a broader perspective on Sagittarius.

posted July 06, 2016 04:41 PM              

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Originally posted by DopGang:
I was thinking of the gif and you sharing a birthday with him but no. Things just pop into my head.

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quote:

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Originally posted by hannaramaa:
Because they ARE? It's subjective merely because one person doesn't like it, but your friend wearing it feels hot and confident. You may not understand her perspective or why she likes something you can see flaws in, but that doesn't give yours more weight. Right and wrong are definitely dependent on the individual otherwise abortion and the death penalty wouldn't be controversial. We'd have no controversy, period.

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See but that's the thing. Only facts can be truth. Feelings about facts are subjective (not fact / truth itself). For example, whether or not blue is darker than white contains truth. Truth exists there. Whether blue is prettier than white has nothing to do with truth. It can be a fact / true that Mary finds blue more pleasing than white (yes that would be a fact), but truth can only be attached to her factual feelings, not projected onto fact itself. There is a difference. Also, you were talking about whether or not it would be wrong to tell a friend she looks good when you don't think she does. In that case it would be a fact that you do not think she looks good (remember, feelings can be factual contained within themselves). Therefore once you decide to say she does look good (despite not truly feeling that way) that is not truth. That lie is not subjective at all. It would be a fact that you lied.

So only facts can be truth, anything else is something different entirely (i.e. feelings, perspectives, etc.) and should never be confused with truth. Truth is not subjective. Be careful what you watch and what ideas you accept without thorough analysis of what is presented.

quote:

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Originally posted by hannaramaa:
I guess when I was talking about it I meant perspectives because of SV's original post, not facts like if cat pee is really cat pee.

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posted July 06, 2016 07:55 PM              

Sure , I think you should go ahead and get it started, I'd definitely participate. Should be interesting to see what others have noticed about the other signs. Also I agree with your observation of balanced Sag vs out of sync Sag.

Also have you ever noticed the morbid yet sexy characters Sag actresses like to portray? Sag is like the poster-child for the kick-butt action roles that would normally be associated with an Aries girl but with a Scorpio-like twist.

Scarlett Johansson literally dominates the role of dark sexy fighter chick. Sag definitely loves a little more darkness than is assumed (Lucy, Avengers, Sin City, etc.)

Daryl Hannah
Apparently Kill Bill is just a concept that the Sag's soul gravitates to b/c Lucy Liu, David Carradine (Bill), Issei Takahashi, and Yoshiyuki Morishita (all Sag) were involved

Milla Jovovitch definitely represents this trait as well. Doesn't get any darker / action packed than that creepy Resident Evil stuff.

Yep it's a little discussed Sag thing but the acknowledgment of all of the dark side stuff doesn't mean Sag are not still nice chipper folk. Milla will look all bad-@ss when she shoots you but then turn around like this

She actually shares my moon sun and mars placements. I love her song Gentleman Who Fell linked below via image.

posted July 07, 2016 12:16 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by DopGang:
It seems like only about 1 in 10 is it an actual reflection of their personality.

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Yep. The majority of people I meet who dress/act this way seem to be the opposite in regards to their personality. Including the Sags.

posted July 07, 2016 12:41 AM              

quote:

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Originally posted by DopGang:
Yes, I'm quite weird.

I find the dark look to be played out honestly. It's everywhere. It seems like only about 1 in 10 is it an actual reflection of their personality.

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1 in 10 is being rather generous to be honest lol. This thread is my little PSA to make others aware that there is a dark side to Sag that would be within our best interest to know of. If only for the sake of accuracy and integrity as a student of astrology . However, when it comes to the whole dark look thing there are essentially two prominent dynamics. The first kind is the one everybody else tries to replicate through mannerisms, clothing, etc. It is a darkness of aura that is usually manifested from a genuine sense of resentment and lack. It's darkness creeping out. That's why the vampire-like character always has a condescending / apathetic tone that has been popularized as "sexy". When really it's bitterness and quite predatory. This person usually does not voluntarily emit this energy, it is done by nature itself to warn others of their fallen souls.

The second kind is darkness going in, not coming out. People idolize all kinds of killing and horrible mentalities glamorized by movies and songs, etc. These people usually are not actually lonely, tortured, misfits, nor have any real reason to resent the outside world. That's why even when they dress the part they don't match it (b/c darkness is not being emitted, it is being internalized). This is especially true for the Pluto in Scorpio generation who gravitate to dark personas from an idolized place. It's "cool" to be dark.

posted July 07, 2016 01:21 AM              

quote:

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Originally posted by StubbornVirgo:
Yep. The majority of people I meet who dress/act this way seem to be the opposite in regards to their personality. Including the Sags.

Not to say that everybody is faking it, but it seems to be a common look these days.

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Pluto in Scorpio generation collectively idolizes the look. Pretty sure that's what is responsible for it.

Pluto in Virgo had everyone wearing exercise clothes as fashion lol so cute.

Meanwhile my PinS generation insist on looking like homeless ghetto devil spawns from hell lol! Annoying tumblr fashion with the upside down crosses and pentagrams, etc. etc. smh

Always interesting to analyze generational influences when looking at popularized themes. Just wait until the energy of Pluto in Sagittarius reaches full maturity. People will be walking around in futuristic kimonos complimented by cowgirl boots and biblical verses scribbled in henna.

posted July 07, 2016 02:38 AM            

I agree with that assessment. I'm apart of the Pluto in Scorpio generation as well. I dressed like Amy Lee in high school. Ripped jeans, black skirts and tights, a whole Nightmare Before Christmas vibe going on... Even now I'm just a few years from turning 30 and I still own a lot of black clothes, wear heavy eyeliner and mascara, have a lot of tattoos, etc. I clean up for work though, and it helps that I don't have any tattoos that can't be covered up with clothing. It is amazing how much I can change my appearance with a little effort.

It's probably my Pluto square Aquarius ASC showing, and maybe BML conjunct my Sag MC too.

My brother also has Pluto in Scorpio, as well as Scorpio Moon, Sag Mars and ASC. He's a Sun Aquarius with a stellium in that sign (Sun, Mercury, Venus, Jupiter). Lots of Pluto and Jupiter squares in his chart.

He makes my appearance look like I'm playing dress up, lol. He's absolutely covered in tattoos from head to toe. He's older than me and still dresses in a very intimidating way. (He looks like one of those bouncers you see on TV if that gives you an idea.) He's always been fond of fast cars, motorcycles, a generally risky lifestyle... People are generally surprised to learn that we're siblings due to the fact that I'm more responsible, a worrywart and tend to act like the older sibling. He's the forever teenager.

posted July 07, 2016 11:30 AM            

...

posted July 07, 2016 02:34 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by LittleBlackCat:
It seems my post may have come across as "No no no you are wrong! Laurent is dominant NOT Larry", but that was not the intent at all . That's something one of their fans might do but I'm just a scientist / analyst. I mainly went over their relationship dynamic to further illustrate the basis of the thread (how the darker side of Sag can play out). I wanted to emphasize that the overlooked aspects of Sag are indeed very real.

What you mentioned about Larry is actually true (the dark reservation). It seems to basically be Laurent with the dark actions and Larry with the dark aura (which can speak volumes). Note the more detached less emotional nature I talked about in Larry. Laurent is definitively more dominant physically but it's very possible that in trying to dominate Larry, he is actually giving Larry a different sort of "dominance" over him. Larry has literally stated in interviews that Laurent has power over him (he described it as dangerous and draining). However, it often does start to seem like Laurent grows increasingly dependent and attached to the whole choas while Larry seems increasingly detached and emotionally uninvolved.

Nontheless, all I know is that the entire thing is evil and will not end well (regardless of the specifics). Should've been a little tougher with more integrity. I've heard of them for years prior to my these observations but had never really seen any of their stuff (just the occasional cameos in Beyonce videos). If I had ever actually seen their dances there would be no way I could overlook the signals. Yep, they are Caribbeans (of Guadeloupean heritage) who were born in France. They can even do Caribbean style dances. Their bloodline probably granted them dual citizenship as well (which is what I have with my island and America). Anyway anyone doing that kind of weak behavior is pathetic. I love dancing and musicality in general, so I really do think the talent / skill with music is awesome but people need to stop condoning this mess. Young people (and even some adults) idolize these damaged individuals and that's dangerous. They won't get another view from me though. I've already got all I needed to from my analysis and feel I'm better at astrology / human psychology because of it. I also hope others benefited from the analysis as well and now have a broader perspective on Sagittarius.

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haha oh no, I get it! I think when I responded to this yesterday my head was in a different place, it was a moody day lol
but really, after reading what you had put down it made a lot of sense and at the time i was processing it because between the two, larry was always my favorite and to me his presence had a lot more dark feel than Laurent, but when you point out the action part of how he treats larry it made a lot of sense.
ive been interested and watching the les twins for quit a few years, i love to dance, and i love music also. when i saw that the les twins had moon/venus/pluto conj in scorpio it immediately made sense to me from watching them, especially because i have venus/pluto conj in scorpio and i would equate their style as the male aesthetic version of how i dress lol.. cept i dress better :P ha! and i was drawn to them because our dancing styles were similar too.. i use to love larry so much! but recently from watching them theyv gotten so cocky ha and sorta spazzy its like ive seen it all! and now theyr rapping? when you say its not going to end well what do you mean? like their secrets will come out?

posted July 07, 2016 03:17 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by LittleBlackCat:
I love her song Gentleman Who Fell linked below via image.

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I've always loved that song.

Sia was born the day after her. Speaking of toughness, she wrote Diamonds and co-wrote Titanium.

posted July 07, 2016 03:31 PM            

Here's an ad from back then:

quote:

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Originally posted by LittleBlackCat:
Just wait until the energy of Pluto in Sagittarius reaches full maturity. People will be walking around in futuristic kimonos complimented by cowgirl boots and biblical verses scribbled in henna.

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posted July 07, 2016 06:57 PM            

also, i know tons of friends, who have strong sag and pluto/scorpio influence and they have a very vintage "rock n roll" look to them.. almost dark.. but lighter! haha

now from my younger friends who actually have pluto in sag conjunctions, it still has this dark or outrageous and edgy twist but its more vibrant. they use colors and "bohemian" looks.. layers! natural fabrics etc. which i would correlate this trend of hand dyed and natural clothing to Capricorn pluto, and ive also noticed that a lot of the designers who are making those are Capricorns.. and tons of earth signs making orgonite.. natural clothing.. herbs, teas! love it.

posted July 07, 2016 09:56 PM            

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Originally posted by Faith:
Pluto in Libra

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*pukes*

posted July 07, 2016 10:12 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by StubbornVirgo:
Yep. The majority of people I meet who dress/act this way seem to be the opposite in regards to their personality. Including the Sags.

Not to say that everybody is faking it, but it seems to be a common look these days.

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Unfortunately, this seems to be true. And while alot of people claim to be "original" they end up looking like everybody else, even if they belong to the alternative sub-culture.

posted July 07, 2016 10:33 PM            

Well, like someone already mentioned, every sign has it's own darkness, but now that I think of it, yeah... perhaps Sags are the ones, who can get away with it easier Great observation!

Btw, I love your posts and especially this thread. Thanks for putting all the images, they are so funny and help "visual" people like me break the large amounts of text.

posted July 07, 2016 11:18 PM            

Revival:

Maybe that is like, bonding with blue class workers. Though it wasn't just pure Libra, by the mid 90's, everyone had lived through Pluto in Scorpio, and we were assimilating that as well. Hence, grunge, punk, alternative music, and all that.

posted July 08, 2016 03:09 AM              

Lol yeah after I posted that Virgo generation pic I spent the next few minutes looking at a bunch of quirky fashion from that era on google lol. I always liked Amy Lee (she was one of the Sag ppl I put in the collage). My Immortal never loses beauty to me....ever. Triple Virgo? That must be very interesting. Since we are in a thread about overlooked sign traits, I should mention my findings on Virgo. Basically if Sag is characterized by a light/dark dynamic, I see Virgo as being characterized by a lace/brick (delicate/tough) dynamic. This polarity should really be right up there with Geminis duality tbh. You guys can be (and often are) total rebels. Pink, Dolores (from Cranberries), Bebe Rexha and Amy Winehouse (just to name a few) all have a tough, tom-boy, biker-chick edge to them. It's so fascinating considering the typical Virgo description. Sorry the analyst in me gets excited with stuff like this lol. Anyway your responsible Virgo nature mixed with your tattoos and edgy look makes so much sense to me. I'm declaring Virgo the "Responsible Rebel"

posted July 08, 2016 03:24 AM              

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Originally posted by mirage29:
LBC... You have some serious Talent dude. High quality stuff. I like the way you respond to people. And your visual presentations are very esthetically pleasing.
(You're funny as hell, too, with your gifs!) *worships LOL*

...

(topic) Captain Kirk talks a robot to death (Star Trek clip) [0:36] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZuYbDP2kDfg

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Thanks Mirage you are so sweet lol! This is why I love Geminis, you completely appreciate my Gemini Moon's obsession with incessant research and analysis (no matter how weird or how far down the rabbit hole I go) lol

posted July 08, 2016 03:47 AM              

Hahaha I always joke that The Joker is a Gemini with Scorpio Rising but dang it Sag is fitting like a glove

@Faith
Finally someone else who knows this song
Yeah, both Milla and Sia are Sag, with Gem Moon, and Gem Mars (Rx), just like meeeeee LOL. For some reason this Sag / Gem combo makes one VERY eccentric with a love of dramatic imagery and words. Billy Idol is also this Sun/Moon and we saw what kind of stuff he did (wild). Often our expression of things manifest themselves as bordering on crazy/erratic. It will really make others think we are legitimately bonkers, but really on the inside we are very logical about it all.

That PinL fashion pic is so cute. Almost cloyingly so. You're right though, I completely see the themes of balance / equality. Good work spotting the Denim trend. You also make excellent point about Pluto in Sag. However, though Sag is not very materialistic, we are kind of (who am I kidding?) VERY over the top. Many also have insane egos. With Pluto involved this could get dangerous lol

posted July 08, 2016 05:36 AM              

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Originally posted by Liliya:
As for Sags...

Well, like someone already mentioned, every sign has it's own darkness, but now that I think of it, yeah... perhaps Sags are the ones, who can get away with it easier Great observation!

Btw, I love your posts and especially this thread. Thanks for putting all the images, they are so funny and help "visual" people like me break the large amounts of text.

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Awww thanks! Yep I'm a gif junkie hehehe. Glad you like the thread and lol @ the Twilight statement (I've long suspected the same thing).

Oh yes, Anne Rice. My first love was a Leo guy who was obsessed with Anne Rice. He had Scorpio Rising (like me). That is literally the one time in life I wish someone had been faking how dark they were. That guy was literally from the pits of hell smh. I'll admit that a sort of darkness is what bonded us together in the first place (don't let my chipper posts mislead you lol). However, he had no intention of even trying to escape his demons. I have never met anyone as creepy as him again and I don't want to.