posted July 09, 2016 01:15 AM              

quote:

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Originally posted by BeholdAstarte:
haha oh no, I get it! I think when I responded to this yesterday my head was in a different place, it was a moody day lol
but really, after reading what you had put down it made a lot of sense and at the time i was processing it because between the two, larry was always my favorite and to me his presence had a lot more dark feel than Laurent, but when you point out the action part of how he treats larry it made a lot of sense.
ive been interested and watching the les twins for quit a few years, i love to dance, and i love music also. when i saw that the les twins had moon/venus/pluto conj in scorpio it immediately made sense to me from watching them, especially because i have venus/pluto conj in scorpio and i would equate their style as the male aesthetic version of how i dress lol.. cept i dress better :P ha! and i was drawn to them because our dancing styles were similar too.. i use to love larry so much! but recently from watching them theyv gotten so cocky ha and sorta spazzy its like ive seen it all! and now theyr rapping? when you say its not going to end well what do you mean? like their secrets will come out?

and as far as "incest" goes.. since pluto can be a big time creep lol, do you think it can be the culprit? edgar allen poe was into his adolescent cousin.. ha he had a scorpio rising with Uranus in the 1st and his moon was conj pluto in pisces along with venus!!

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Ah, I see , and sorry again for the long post, you are in no way obligated to respond to every single detail hahaha. My Mars and Moon are in Gemini, forgive me. Anyway these guys are so much more well known than I could have imagined. I feel Sag has a lot to do with this, but the dark allure that tints their goofy / friendly behavior seems to be a magnet. In one way people are weirded-out by them, but on the other hand it's almost as if that's the attraction. They are generally odd even without the incestuous stuff (alternative clothing, wild hair, accents, movement, etc.). When I checked their charts and saw the Venus, Pluto, Moon, etc I felt the same as you (like oh ok, no wonder). "...between the two, larry was always my favorite" + "....I use to love larry so much! " Fascinating. This is literally the general feeling among people. It's really interesting. I've noticed it immediately. I'm sure that this is what is driving a lot of Laurent's issues. He knows this is how it is and it bothers him. However, the real question would be why is this so to begin with? What is it about Larry?

Astrologically speaking I honestly feel they have different rising signs. Primarily because if that's the case, then even with all of the other placements being the same their aspects will be quite different (which would explain a lot). Psychologically speaking (sans astrology), I feel like most twins subconsciously adapt emotionally confining roles to compensate for their "likeness". Some research I did on twins revealed that twins who grew up separately acted far more alike than those who grew together. I figure the lack of pressure to not be seen as the same allows for true expression. Anyway, though I was never into them and only researched them for astrological / psychoanalytical reasons, even I found myself thinking Larry was pretty likable. However, in my case I knew what it was for me. When it comes to my sister and I, I am a lot like Larry (the quieter, less talkative, and more shy one that didn't always stand up for myself). He is older than I am but gives a very adorable little brother vibe. Definitely seemed more likely to have been friends with him under different circumstances. Laurent on the other hand seems sort of brash / rude and a little annoying / intimidating. However, I actually discovered that I found him extremely interesting.

It seemed everything Laurent did had an almost agonizing passion that made me find him both pitiful and endearing. For example, Larry typically does amazing while dancing 80% (if not all) of the time. Then I would see videos of Laurent....at times he would do the most awkward borderline ridiculous "dance moves", but he would do it with so much feeling and passion that I genuinely found it admirable. Whenever he actually danced well, that same passion would literally create some amazingly beautiful dancing (I loved the contemporary stuff he tends to do). He seems legitimately crazy in an interesting way, with a unique thinking process. If I wasn't already completely aware of the horrific place it all stems from I might actually like it. Someone asked him who was older between he and Larry and literally said "I was born first but Larry is older"....yeah. Then in another interview he said he loved hurting himself while he danced and actually held up his foot to show dried blood on his socks from his dancing the night before. However, one of the things I really liked was when he said that if you want to know how his day is, don't even expect words, just ask him to dance because his pain, happiness, doubt, etc is expressed better that way than anything he could ever try telling you. Beautiful.

Honestly though, even if they were not plagued with incest, I could never date or be around either of them. Interesting personalities but I'm seriously not a fan distasteful cursing, and general immaturity (not my style). At 27 they look / act like cocky mentally disturbed teenagers. Such a shame too because their talent and unique look (extremely tall, amazingly slender built, basically handsome faces) have pretty much gone to waste. They had the potential to be much more than what they've succumb to smh. I mean seriously...incestuous "rap gods"??? Yep, just what we've all been needing this whole time

I actually came across the rap video when I was researching them (I think 4 days ago?). The crazy thing is that while the song is just turn-up noise, the video shows exactly what I've been saying on here. It shows Larry being haunted by a strange entity depicted by Laurent. It lives inside of him and is evil. He goes to some esoteric woman to get it exorcised out of him. He goes hoping to find help but she is evil as well and actually brings the evil entity to life. It's like she represents all the people that he and his brother blatantly show their perversion to (like look we are sick please help), but essentially the ppl themselves are also messed up / evil so are blind to it. All they do is cause it to manifest further (like how she brought the dark spirit to life). As Sag the video is pretty elaborate and majestic in its cinematography for a rap video. The creepy theme is of course Pluto / Scorpio.

posted July 09, 2016 02:01 AM            

That alternative clothing chain wouldn't be Hot Topic, would it? I used to frequent that place all of the time, back in the day. Mostly for the band t-shirts and hoodies, but then I started buying them online because there was a larger selection there.

I actually blame the music industry. When post-punk, grunge, alt rock music really took off, the dark alternative look did, too. Many of my favorite bands dressed that way, so I did, too. I would still dress that way if I could, but my style has changed due to work - even though I've met people in my industry who are WAY more liberal with their appearance, I'm pretty conservative with my workwear. (Cap stellium and Virgo stellium cannot be ignored, after all.)

posted July 09, 2016 02:40 AM            

I like that idea…"Responsible Rebel" should definitely be Virgo's motto. I've met many, many Virgos who fit that description…but not many that fit the "picture perfect" image of Virgo. I always laugh at those descriptions. My house is comfortably messy - things aren't where they're supposed to be, but I know where to find them. I am really hygienic and super aware of germs, but I can also go a while without a shower without grossing myself or other people out (they never seem to notice, but then they do notice when I've taken a shower lol). But I would never dream of not paying a bill or not following through on something I've agreed to do (the very notion is embarrassing to me, for some reason). I'm not a fan of diets or exercising, though when I put my mind to it I can really get in shape.

It's my belief that most signs are full of contradictions, but especially with Virgo and Sag. I can also see this with Pisces and Gemini. Maybe it's a trait of mutable signs?

Lol. I can always tell when he's getting fed up because his Sag Mars will go "Why am I dealing with this? It doesn't even matter!" and then take off for a week or two lol. There definitely seems to be a push and pull effect with that placement…he cares, but then he doesn't. I can see the yin and yang in that.

posted July 12, 2016 01:31 PM              

quote:

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Originally posted by Sulkyarcher:
I've been thinking a little bit about me being a Sagittarius.

I definitely have a wild side, like a wild horse, that can scare people off. I can be blunt as hell when I feel cornered, and I do everything VERY big, or VERY small!

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Lol yep me too. My Venus is in the first so I am usually sweet but I can be so blunt sometimes hahaha. Also what you said about doing things very big or very small is definitely Jupiterian

posted July 12, 2016 02:06 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Sulkyarcher:
I definitely have a wild side, like a wild horse, that can scare people off

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This thread is saying Sag gets a free pass for the most part, so I would think that's a disagreement with this thread.

I have a 5H Sag stellium (which includes Mars-Uranus) with a lot of Sag energy (without the Sag sun). But I DON'T get a free pass from people, and some people see me as really scary (it's complicated, and occasionally bizarre). Luckily, the Sag energy helps me shake a lot of it off, and even find some of the more crazy ideas about me hilarious. And I have to be careful about sharing my gallows humor (a coping skill I formed growing up) as others can find it really disturbing.

posted July 12, 2016 10:16 PM            

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Originally posted by LittleBlackCat:

Ha leave it to a Sag guy to become super popular from something that often leaves others out-casted. Things like that are the very reason they seem so interesting to me. I'm a Sag girl who has never been close to a Sag guy (I almost did once but it didn't go anywhere). I always wonder what it's like but I've heard some pretty scary horror stories (to put it lightly lol).

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posted July 12, 2016 10:40 PM            

There really is much more than just a Sun Sign to consider.

posted July 13, 2016 01:04 PM              

quote:

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Originally posted by PixieJane:
This thread is saying Sag gets a free pass for the most part, so I would think that's a disagreement with this thread....

.....Maybe if I were a Sag sun rather than Sag stellium then that mistake wouldn't have happened.

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This is actually the first thing that came to my mind while reading your post. The free-pass thing tends to be with Solar Sagittarians in particular. Of course this is not to say we get a free-pass 100% of the time (that would be laughable), but some pretty strange behavior tends to get by either unnoticed or (even weirder) admired. Just like with Sulkyarcher sometimes my behavior can be very disturbing to others and frighten them (esp. with my Scorpio Asc). For example, there are times when I (in all seriousness) act like this (probably b/c of all my Sag + Gem fusions)

Which sometimes makes others react like this...

Buuuuuuut...for the most part my craziness is met with statements like this

Then I'm like, "Oh really?"

posted July 13, 2016 01:18 PM              

quote:

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Originally posted by Liliya:
I've a Sag stellum and always fell for them, but they actually never really were into me, well except for one that I've dated (prolly because he's an Aqua Venus and likes weirdos ) Even with celebs... If I fancy someone, 70% chances they are Sag.

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posted July 13, 2016 01:49 PM              

quote:

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Originally posted by Novabronte:
I'm a Sag Sun and I don't have a dark side, so this sends this theory to fantasy land.

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Nova what kind of logic is that??? You do realize that most of the Sag Sun / Sag influenced people that visited the thread said that they identified with quite a few of the dark qualities noted here??? That would not mean that Sag does not have a dark side. It would simply mean YOU are a Sag that does not have a dark side. You can't base all Sag off of yourself when I've cited VARIOUS Sag Sun people to support my observations. Come on now.

quote:

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Originally posted by Novabronte:
There really is much more than just a Sun Sign to consider.

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All of the people used in the collage and referenced throughout this thread have very diverse and unique charts individual to themselves. The only common factor? Sag Sun (which is what prompted this thread to begin with). I figured if Sag Sun seems to be the only common link yet there are undeniable patterns of darkness then something must be up.

quote:

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Originally posted by Novabronte:
I also dont agree with Sag getting a free ride. You can say about people born with Sirius on MC that they have been born under a lucky star, because that is what ancient astrologers believed about Sirius.
Also the 24 degree Sagittarius is a very lucky placement, especially for Sun - the sabian symbol is A BLUEBIRD PERCHED ON THE GATE OF A COTTAGE, which means GOOD FORTUNE is going to touch your life.
Other than that, there must be other auspicious aspects in the chart...or just simply optimist nature and law of attraction at work.

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See the thing is, you are going by what the text-books say and I'm going by what I witness. Questioning the text-book or "cookbook" descriptions of the signs is the foundation of this thread. For example, look at my previous conversation with StubbornVirgo (midway down this page). The general description of Virgo would have you believe Virgo is some fusion of a delicate princess with a serious case of OCD. However based on what I've actually observed I noticed Virgo was pretty tough, resilient, and nobody to trifle with (causing me to coin Virgo as the "Responsible Rebel"). Stubborn Virgo said she thought it fit very well.

Same idea with Sag here. Just b/c the text-books don't mention any dark qualities does not mean they are not from the sign. Also, just b/c you don't think you are dark doesn't mean you are not. Darkness does not only come in the form of Gothic clothes or dark humor (even though many Sag have dark humor). It can also show up as sociopath tendencies, lack of empathy, etc. Notice how I referenced the comment section of a relationship blog and the traumatizing experiences shared about dating Sag. It's not as narrow as you think. If someone were a sociopath they would never identify as such. Likewise, there are probably tons of Sag that see themselves as nothing near "dark" but people around them would say otherwise.

Also, don't misunderstand me. I am not saying Sag gets a free-pass 100% of the time (no). However, in comparison to other signs they truly do seem to get away with stuff to an unusual degree (which is Jupiterian within itself). I mean multiple women admitted to paying for or buying things for Sag without logical reason (even AFTER a breakup). You don't think that's odd? Nobody noticed the incestuous behavior between those two twins until I pointed it out (despite it being obvious as h3ll). You don't think that's odd? Come on Nova.

posted July 13, 2016 05:29 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by LittleBlackCat:
Ah, I see , and sorry again for the long post, you are in no way obligated to respond to every single detail hahaha. My Mars and Moon are in Gemini, forgive me. Anyway these guys are so much more well known than I could have imagined. I feel Sag has a lot to do with this, but the dark allure that tints their goofy / friendly behavior seems to be a magnet. In one way people are weirded-out by them, but on the other hand it's almost as if that's the attraction. They are generally odd even without the incestuous stuff (alternative clothing, wild hair, accents, movement, etc.). When I checked their charts and saw the Venus, Pluto, Moon, etc I felt the same as you (like oh ok, no wonder). [b] "...between the two, larry was always my favorite" + "....I use to love larry so much! " Fascinating. This is literally the general feeling among people. It's really interesting. I've noticed it immediately. I'm sure that this is what is driving a lot of Laurent's issues. He knows this is how it is and it bothers him. However, the real question would be why is this so to begin with? What is it about Larry?

Astrologically speaking I honestly feel they have different rising signs. Primarily because if that's the case, then even with all of the other placements being the same their aspects will be quite different (which would explain a lot). Psychologically speaking (sans astrology), I feel like most twins subconsciously adapt emotionally confining roles to compensate for their "likeness". Some research I did on twins revealed that twins who grew up separately acted far more alike than those who grew together. I figure the lack of pressure to not be seen as the same allows for true expression. Anyway, though I was never into them and only researched them for astrological / psychoanalytical reasons, even I found myself thinking Larry was pretty likable. However, in my case I knew what it was for me. When it comes to my sister and I, I am a lot like Larry (the quieter, less talkative, and more shy one that didn't always stand up for myself). He is older than I am but gives a very adorable little brother vibe. Definitely seemed more likely to have been friends with him under different circumstances. Laurent on the other hand seems sort of brash / rude and a little annoying / intimidating. However, I actually discovered that I found him extremely interesting.

It seemed everything Laurent did had an almost agonizing passion that made me find him both pitiful and endearing. For example, Larry typically does amazing while dancing 80% (if not all) of the time. Then I would see videos of Laurent....at times he would do the most awkward borderline ridiculous "dance moves", but he would do it with so much feeling and passion that I genuinely found it admirable. Whenever he actually danced well, that same passion would literally create some amazingly beautiful dancing (I loved the contemporary stuff he tends to do). He seems legitimately crazy in an interesting way, with a unique thinking process. If I wasn't already completely aware of the horrific place it all stems from I might actually like it. Someone asked him who was older between he and Larry and literally said "I was born first but Larry is older"....yeah. Then in another interview he said he loved hurting himself while he danced and actually held up his foot to show dried blood on his socks from his dancing the night before. However, one of the things I really liked was when he said that if you want to know how his day is, don't even expect words, just ask him to dance because his pain, happiness, doubt, etc is expressed better that way than anything he could ever try telling you. Beautiful.

Honestly though, even if they were not plagued with incest, I could never date or be around either of them. Interesting personalities but I'm seriously not a fan distasteful cursing, and general immaturity (not my style). At 27 they look / act like cocky mentally disturbed teenagers. Such a shame too because their talent and unique look (extremely tall, amazingly slender built, basically handsome faces) have pretty much gone to waste. They had the potential to be much more than what they've succumb to smh. I mean seriously...incestuous "rap gods"??? Yep, just what we've all been needing this whole time

I actually came across the rap video when I was researching them (I think 4 days ago?). The crazy thing is that while the song is just turn-up noise, the video shows exactly what I've been saying on here. It shows Larry being haunted by a strange entity depicted by Laurent. It lives inside of him and is evil. He goes to some esoteric woman to get it exorcised out of him. He goes hoping to find help but she is evil as well and actually brings the evil entity to life. It's like she represents all the people that he and his brother blatantly show their perversion to (like look we are sick please help), but essentially the ppl themselves are also messed up / evil so are blind to it. All they do is cause it to manifest further (like how she brought the dark spirit to life). As Sag the video is pretty elaborate and majestic in its cinematography for a rap video. The creepy theme is of course Pluto / Scorpio.

When I say things won't end well for them I mean they will end up physically, psychologically, and emotionally destroyed by it all. They've already shown people what's wrong with them and (unfortunately) nobody cares, so it's not so much about people finding out. As for you other question I think it is specifically the fusion of Sag / Pluto that's causing it. The examples you cited were great but I also think combining negative Plutonian tendencies with the expanding nature of Jupiter / Sag magnifies it. Sag, Gem, and Virgo are all prone to incest/child molestation so Pluto being involved can be dangerous here. I knew a Sag guy when I was in school who was "in love" with his sister. [/B]

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haha i feel you! my jupiter is in the 3rd house and my moons in virgo, loaded 3rd/6th/9th houses ha I can talk up a storm too!
ive noticed the pull towards larry too.. i wonder if their rising is on a cusp? could be, its very interesting with the whole concepts of twins and how they try to find their differences in individuality, my best friend is a twin and her and her sister do the same to each other, it use to really confuse me when we first started hanging out because I would talk to one sister like they were the other and forget they were separated lol, me saying that was obviously upsetting to them hahaha. but I always find it interesting when I observe them..because they act out their charts so differently yet so similar at the same time. one sister acts out her negative aspects and the harsh aspects of her chart more than the other sister who is far more easy going and friendly, both had very different reactions from people growing up which was a huge factor in how they present themselves I think. for whatever reason one of the sisters was picked on a lot while the other sister was favored by their siblings, and this general theme continues in their relationships I think. its very interesting..

posted July 14, 2016 05:35 PM              

quote:

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@BeholdAstarte:

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The dynamic you described between the twins you know and the one evident between Larry and Laurent says a lot. Essentially it seems twins have a stronger bond while at the same time it can be more difficult / emotionally brutal for them.

quote:

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despite the obscene body language that could possibly equate to incest."

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"my quest in life is acceptance so my life has been filled with very interesting characters and experiences, they do not detour me away! I just want to accept eerrrone

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There is a fine line between accepting and understanding. I too have had many "interesting" characters in my life and I'll be the first to tell you that their darkness only destroys them. Nothing good can come from people accepting / encouraging it. I make it a point to never ACCEPT their bad / disturbing behavior as right or ok. As it seems everyone either accepts or rejects but only very few seek to understand and heal. I am in the minority. If you accept such things in the name of being "non-judmental" you could easily be denying someone the opportunity to escape a destiny of misery / pain. If you always reject such a person it may be what is best for you and those you love, but in a way the same thing can still be true (if they are seeking your help). I seek to understand, then I see if there can be an exchange of awareness based on understanding. If so, the next step is to encourage healing as opposed to encouraging self-destructive behavior (like everybody else). That being said, this will only work if the person wants it to and not every person who has succumbed to weakness is suitable to "save" or attempt to understand. However, certain things MAY have a slight chance but it requires an extreme level of spiritual maturity / ability (that most people including myself are nowhere near close to reaching). Also you stated that you feel your own darkness may be responsible for you easy acceptance or theirs. However, is that not selfish in a way? To encourage another's darkness (even if it will destroy them) simply b/c you encourage your own darkness??

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"regardless of how crazy or mentally disturbed they might actually be, they are were they are at because of their amazing dance and magnetism! I don't think anything is wasted! they like us are learning and maybe they have a warped mind to go with their amazingly mindblowing talents, but if there was anything they brought to dance, was taking it to the next level! they took dance and stretched it as far as they could take it, that's fricken amazing! and that's good enough for me. haha! I will respect what their soul has to offer because I'm not going to deny it, they move me! if theres anything i appreciate more in this life its raw expression, no matter how distrurbing it can be.

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This reminds me of how R.Kelly (moon in Sag)sexually manipulated underage girls (including Aaliyah) but people felt his singing / writing talents were too good for anything else to matter. However, that is idolatry. Same with Les Twins, it is expected(considering the current state of the world) to still love and be inspired by them (we are taught to). People allow their talent to overshadow their perversion (which is wrong). Les Twins are talented indeed but to think their talent alone is what got them to where they are is (unfortunately) incorrect. Their talent only played one part. In this world it's not really about talent, it is about temptation and sacrifice. You only make it that far if you sacrificed certain morals and sense of self. You have two grown strong Caribbean guys taking photos of themselves with the fingers of some weird hairy guy in their mouth. There are photo-shoots of them dressed in little girl's clothing. They've made a joke of themselves in that Meghan Trainer video. They often look like some bxtches with no masculinity whatsoever. There is no respect in that and they have sold their dignity. If they refused to do stuff like that they would not be as famous I guarantee it. They are being the good little jesters the industry needs them to be smh. Also, when I say they're a waste, I don't mean the level of fame they have achieved. I'm fully aware of their impact on the dance community. I am talking about their souls, which is an entirely different thing altogether. Do not think for a moment that they are happy where they are b/c they are not. It even seems Laurent has taken to drugs of some sort or has contracted a disease (it's crazy to me that nobody cares enough to catch these things). Why would a famous top dancer like him take drugs? He is probably trying to escape sickening thoughts / memories. If it is a disease then likewise the darkness of their lifestyle is catching up with them. H3ll it might be both but it's definitely one.

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you know, now then you mention sag,gem and Virgo all being prone to incest.. it makes me think of a TON of serial killers who are AAAALLL multiple signs.

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posted July 15, 2016 03:06 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by LittleBlackCat:
[b]WARNING: CONTAINS DISTURBING / TABOO CONTENT..

Sag has a pretty good reputation as a fun, friendly, almost harmless sign (esp. the sun). However, the symbol that represents them seems to be taken way too lightly.They are the ONLY sign in the zodiac that is a human/animal fusion. This seems to create the capacity for completely strange, wild, and even disturbing behavior (animal) that can be completely masked or rationalized by their human intelligence. The symbol is literally depicting the "lower-self" with the "higher-self" aiming for a particular target...and they do work together to reach it (whether it's for a virtuous aim or something totally heinous). I have decided that this is much more dangerous / powerful than most astrology texts let on.

Each person in the above image possess unique and diverse charts. The only recurring common theme? They are all solar Sagittarians. Not so friendly / sunny are they? Sure, I have seen some of those people sport a fun even clownish disposition. However, often even those moments reveal an undeniably sinister flicker of mischief in the otherwise sparkle filled eyes Sag ppl are known for. What I noticed during my studies is that Sagittarians are very complex. Both philosophical and shallow. Comedic and serious. Spiritual and hedonistic. The mutability seems to be illuminated by their fire. However, the illumination of their fire is often so sunny and bright that it blinds others from seeing the shadow side of this mutability. Most ppl clearly see the comedic side, but not the serious one. Most readily see Sag's love of adventuring off into fun endeavors, but not their dark journeys into taboo / evil territory.

By the time anyone becomes aware of the more disturbing side of Sagittarius, their human intellect has already found plenty of workarounds to do beastly creature-like things in your face without any ridicule whatsoever. Whether conscious or not, this is not a coincidence. There is a dark side to Sagittarius.

LET'S TAKE A LOOK...
Woody Allen has long been associated with pedophilia, something that would normally cause shunning, but he is a Sag and remains revered. Ozzy Osbourne bit the head off of a bat while on stage. It was allegedly an accident (as he claims he thought it was fake), but what grown adult uses their teeth to rip anything thrown on stage by a stranger? Who can do that and is still loved anyway? Sag, that's who. Jay-z publicly wears shirts with Alleister Crowly quotes and frequently alludes to sorcery / witchcraft, but nobody thinks it's weird. Why? He is a Sag. Trey Songz is typically seen as harmless to pretty much everyone despite highly disturbing "performances" such as the one below. He convinces two strangers to intertwine themselves in his shirt and fondle / kiss each other for his amusement. This is in no way a unique event for him and he also does a lot of sexual simulations. Normally people would see how twisted this is, but he is a Sag sooo.....

OH, BUT IT'S NOT LIMITED TO QUESTIONABLE ENTERTAINERS
There was an article written about the dangers of dating men of the Leo, Aquarius, Gemini, and Sag variety. Yet the ENTIRE comment section was literally dedicated to the evils, horrors, and complete psychological torture of Sagittarius. One would think the article was about Sag and nobody else. That is NOT a coincidence. Sagittarius, despite their warm fun-loving nature, have the capacity for ice cold rancor and sociopath-like behavior while charming you to your grave. They will mistreat you and you will love it, because they always seem to "mean well" and are just so darn fun. Clicking the screen-shot below takes you to the site.

CONTINUED BELOW...[/B]

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@LittleBlackCat Interesting forum topic. I've been lurking. Lemme put my 2 cents in. You brought up some interesting points and I mostly agree.

Random but it's strange but the same stuff you saying about Sag, I see it with Leo (I have a love/hate relationship with Leos). I can't fully trust Leos they seem so sneaky/fake to me sometimes.

Moving on, I would say Sags have a weird mutable thing going on with them. I see it with the other mutable signs too. Mutables have that need to try, do, and experience EVERYTHING to the point where they continuously cross/lines/rules/boundaries. They live fast and don't seem to think or use common sense at all. It is very off-putting.

I love mutuble signs and my closest friends are mutable signs. I personally love Sag energy.

Whatever the case to me, a Sag's dark side is not even shocking to me. It's kinda sad, like a trainwreck you can't help but keep looking at. I view Sags "dark side" as desperate, vulgar, classless, and just out of this world (like ET).

I think people put slack on Sags because like all mutable signs; Sags tries too hard, moves on too quickly, and just leave people confused. To the point where they are not taken seriously. By the way I don't take mutables seriously because they change their minds/actions so often; that you question if they are for real. They are not married or dedicated to their "dark sides" IMO; like the other energies.

Also I notice if you make people feel good/laugh you can get away with anything. That's why Sag (along with Libra, Leo, Gemini) can get away with crap that other signs can't.

posted July 15, 2016 03:09 AM            

Random but it's strange but the same stuff you saying about Sag, I see it with Leo (I have a love/hate relationship with Leos). I can't fully trust Leos they seem so sneaky/fake to me sometimes.

Moving on, I would say Sags have a weird mutable thing going on with them. I see it with the other mutable signs too. Mutables have that need to try, do, and experience EVERYTHING to the point where they continuously cross/lines/rules/boundaries. They live fast and don't seem to think or use common sense at all. It is very off-putting.

I love mutuble signs and my closest friends are mutable signs. I personally love Sag energy.

Whatever the case to me, a Sag's dark side is not even shocking to me. It's kinda sad, like a trainwreck you can't help but keep looking at. I view Sags "dark side" as desperate, vulgar, classless, and just out of this world (like ET).

I think people put slack on Sags because like all mutable signs; Sags tries too hard, moves on too quickly, and just leave people confused. To the point where they are not taken seriously. By the way I don't take mutables seriously because they change their minds/actions so often; that you question if they are for real. They are not married or dedicated to their "dark sides" IMO; like the other energies.

Also I notice if you make people feel good/laugh you can get away with anything. That's why Sag (along with Libra, Leo, Gemini) can get away with crap that other signs can't.

posted July 15, 2016 12:35 PM              

You Lycat are an extremely observant person and I was actually surprised at how accurate your post was.

What you noticed about Leo is true. They can often have arrogant / egotistical behavior and still be loved / adored. The main difference being that unlike Sag, people are often 100% aware of it and sure of where they stand. Upon witnessing it, most people will either do one of two things: admire it and join the Leo fanclub or hate them immensely. The other fire Sun, Aries, has a similar thing going with their anger / tempers. People notice it without doubt and simply choose a side. They either admire Aries militant (often downright mean) leadership qualities or they hate Aries for being a bully.

Sag is the only one of the 3 that is not so clear-cut (being the only mutable one). In an earlier conversation, Stubborn Virgo also noted the role of mutability regarding this topic. Mutable signs(especially depending on specific placement) certainly do cross lines, boundaries, etc. When used positively, it makes them extremely innovative, interesting, and prolific (Einstein, Beethoven, Bruce Lee, etc.). However, expressed negatively it can lead to problems of all kinds, often without others being aware. Tupac was a Gemini, and neither Crips nor Bloods (gangs) seemed to care that he basically played both teams as he pleased. He was one of the first guys to sport a nosering without being questioned. Mutable signs do things without public reaction being as concrete as the other signs. The public's reaction tends to become just as mutable / indefinite towards us as our behavior. Take this mutable trait and add it to the adoration often gained by fire signs and you get a Sag.

When Sag is great they are magnanimous and powerful (again, Bruce and Beethoven are mentioned almost as god's among men). However, when they are not....well....it can be the worst you've ever seen (Miley's antics for example). All of this fits with Jupiter's nature perfectly...expanding anything it touches whether that is prosperity or demise. This is why the following statement can exist....

quote:

---

Sag's dark side is not even shocking to me. It's kinda sad, like a trainwreck you can't help but keep looking at. I view Sags "dark side" as desperate, vulgar, classless, and just out of this world (like ET)."

---

There are of course different degrees of "darkness". There is darkness in the form of self-destruction and darkness in the form of destroying others. Sag is horrible at the former and excellent at the latter. For example, Sag that prey on children will often not be seen as any of these things b/c people typically don't see them as threatening enough to even suspect them. A sag can be a serial-killer and it would shock plenty of people to find out. It is easy to assume Scorpio or Virgo (like MJ or Paul Reubens) may not be the safest people, but Sag's bright nature does just the opposite. In a way you sort of touched on this with the below quote

quote:

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Also I notice if you make people feel good/laugh you can get away with anything. That's why Sag (along with Libra, Leo, Gemini) can get away with crap that other signs can't.

---

You are correct as Sag defintely isn't married to their darkside as they never TRY to be dark. It is more of an animalistic impulse that sometimes even surprises them (hence the usual overshadowing of it with charm / humor whether subconcious or concious). Often, Sag not being taken seriously IS a part of why they are dangerous. However,as mentioned before, when it comes to destruction of self via a need for attention / recognition, your comments on Sag "darkness" being a sad trainwreck is 100% accurate. Sag has a pretty big ego (something that once again seems to be left out of most text-book descriptions). The Sag ego actually rivals Leo in the sense that Leo needs adoration as a validation of their ego (greatness + external confirmation = adoration). Sag needs adoration as a right they feel they deserve based on what they have already validated for themselves (greatness + self-confirmation = adoration). They already feel they are great and simply expect you to see it immediately as well. Notice that Jay-Z refers to himself as Hova (short for Jehovah / God). Movado (a dancehall artist) refers to himself as a God also (Gully God).

This is a common theme with Sag. If Leo is ignored it may depress them and kill their fire. If Sag is ignored the fire simply increases to the point of burning themselves into oblivion. If you do not like Leo, they may think something is wrong with them. If you do not like Sag they think something is wrong with you. They seem desperate because they are. They can become so confused by the lack of adoration they feel they deserve that it makes them legitimately crazy, foolish, and yes, desperate. This often causes them to create caricatures of themselves. They will look stupid and lose the respect of the public. This is by no means every Sag at all (Jay-Z's massive ego has obviously done no such thing to him), but it is something I have certainly noticed . Cookie-cutter descriptions of Sag don't mention this at all. It must also be mentioned that it is not always solely the ego that is responsible either. Sometimes it is a fusion of this ego with really insane over the top beliefs / thought processes that Sag tends to subscribe to.

quote:

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What sign is your Pluto in?

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posted July 15, 2016 07:18 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by LittleBlackCat:
Yep all signs can have negative traits / behavior. I only focused on Sag b/c there seems to be a free-pass for them. Look at MJ (a Solar Virgo) he certainly didn't get a free-pass, everyone talked about his scandal. Michael was abused sexually / mentally / emotionally as a child and I believe he did the same (and possible worse) to those kids...sad. Also yes the Pluto-Sun relation in his chart makes sense (not sure why I didn't think about it before).

---

yes, i am going to still question it because I have always been and still continue to be a skeptic. how they act towards each other in public and the things they say, don't actually equate to them being fully sexual with each other, and maybe they do. but i wouldn't know because i including everyone else, has never actually seen it. we can read between the lines, but in the end its our own perception.

and acceptance has nothing to do with "encouraging" people to continue to be a certain way. are you trying to convince me that in order to understand someone i have to want to change them or make it known that I'm not ok with their own decisions? because to me, its exactly that, their choice, which has nothing to do with me and my own choices/thought process. in order to fully love, you need to understand the concept of acceptance, which has zero conditions tied to it. i am not responsible for someones "opportunity' to escape a "destiny" of misery/pain which i do not agree on at all in the first place because the concept of "destiny" is an illusion in that you are stripped of your own free will of your life and choices and to think that someone is just a mindless drone making their misery and someone needs to come along and save them is taking away the persons own validation of their own evolution. i am going to accept whether you agree with me or not, because my outlook is not the same as yours. i can fully understand someone, AND accept them for EXACTLY who they are, and to be that's far more powerful then stating you "understand" someone and feel the need to take on the responsibility of someone else choices, all i can do is work on myself and hope people will do that along the way, but who am i to think that i should be the one to change anyone? that's ridiculous and I'm fully aware that EVERYONES darkness destroys only themselves. you associate acceptance with encouraging which is your own belief but not an accurate correlation esp in the terms that I'm using. everyones going to learn how to heal themselves at their own rate, and just because i accept them doesn't mean all the sudden their in my life or i just let anyone become apart of it and I'm encouraging them to be at their worst or something? i believe that all you can do is be your own inspiring light, people will either be inspired also, or they can just get a breath of fresh air from your presence.. but i am not here to try to put my ego on anyone else. thanks but no thanks. I'm always here to help IF asked, otherwise its not my place. also, actually meeting them for myself would be the best possible evaluation of them than anything i could ever read about on the internet.

i said that because i am fully aware of my own darkness that its not as shocking or repulsive to me to see it in others, we all have it and it doesn't make us evil or unworthy of acceptance. i don't "encourage" my darkness, but I'm not going to deny that it exists

also, r Kelly talent wise, does not compare to the les twins or rape. you don't have actual evident of true incest except for your psychological evaluation which is subjective to your own opinion. and to think that their dancing didn't take them to the place that their at.. is very very debatable. and you do need to understand just how subjective everything you are talking about is.. because i think your taking your opinion a little bit too seriously considering who are you to say what a 'waste" of a soul or any persons life is.. really? what is a waste? what is a life that is fulfilling? i cant speak for the twins emotions or anyone elses emotions other than mine, i can analyze behavior patterns.. etc, but that doesn't ENTITLE me to talk for people, i can guess, but until you ask and really know from the person.. how would you really know? ya know?. and to say that people do drugs because they are unhappy is very limiting.. though it could be the case, escapism and what not. but i would think being that famous goes along with partying and drugs.. do you really think its far fetched to think a sag with prominent scorpio/pluto and is one of the top dancers in the world isn't going to take drugs? lol but i mean, you could be right, or it could be an over analyses of a something we will never really know.

posted July 16, 2016 09:04 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by LittleBlackCat:
[b]@lycat74:

You Lycat are an extremely observant person and I was actually surprised at how accurate your post was.

@LittleBlackCat: Wah gwan? Sak passe!! FIRST OFF BEFORE I BREAK IT DOWN, UR COMMENT IS GIVING ME LIFE!!! LOL. Thanks for the compliments. <3

What you noticed about Leo is true. They can often have arrogant / egotistical behavior and still be loved / adored. The main difference being that unlike Sag, people are often 100% aware of it and sure of where they stand. Upon witnessing it, most people will either do one of two things: admire it and join the Leo fanclub or hate them immensely. The other fire Sun, Aries, has a similar thing going with their anger / tempers. People notice it without doubt and simply choose a side. They either admire Aries militant (often downright mean) leadership qualities or they hate Aries for being a bully.

Sag is the only one of the 3 that is not so clear-cut (being the only mutable one). In an earlier conversation, Stubborn Virgo also noted the role of mutability regarding this topic. Mutable signs(especially depending on specific placement) certainly do cross lines, boundaries, etc. When used positively, it makes them extremely innovative, interesting, and prolific (Einstein, Beethoven, Bruce Lee, etc.). However, expressed negatively it can lead to problems of all kinds, often without others being aware. Tupac was a Gemini, and neither Crips nor Bloods (gangs) seemed to care that he basically played both teams as he pleased. He was one of the first guys to sport a nosering without being questioned. Mutable signs do things without public reaction being as concrete as the other signs. The public's reaction tends to become just as mutable / indefinite towards us as our behavior. Take this mutable trait and add it to the adoration often gained by fire signs and you get a Sag.

When Sag is great they are magnanimous and powerful (again, Bruce and Beethoven are mentioned almost as god's among men). However, when they are not....well....it can be the worst you've ever seen (Miley's antics for example). All of this fits with Jupiter's nature perfectly...expanding anything it touches whether that is prosperity or demise. This is why the following statement can exist....

I have Pluto in Scorpio
conj. Asc. in Scorpio
quintile Mid.H
Square Jupiter
Sextile Saturn
Sextile Pluto
and Semi-Sextile Venus
[/B]

---

I agree with all of this. For Sag it's very unclear about their darkness (it's not even intentional most of the time). Perhaps it borrowing energy from it's Jupiter ruled mate Pisces. Sags definitely have a ego (if they didn't then frankly they don't deserve to be in the fire signs club" I am surprised your Pluto is in Scorpio. I thought you were much older and had a Pluto in Libra or Pluto in Virgo.

I am also Pluto in Scorpio and Plutonian. I am shocked you are too because our generation is soo weird. They agree with everything and seem to have no morals or no behavior.

posted July 16, 2016 09:08 AM            

@LittleBlackCat: Wah gwan? Sak passe!! FIRST OFF BEFORE I BREAK IT DOWN, UR COMMENT IS GIVING ME LIFE!!! LOL. Thanks for the compliments. <3

I agree with all of this. For Sag it's very unclear about their darkness (it's not even intentional most of the time). Perhaps it borrowing energy from it's Jupiter ruled mate Pisces. Sags definitely have a ego (if they didn't then frankly they don't deserve to be in the fire signs club" I am surprised your Pluto is in Scorpio. I thought you were much older and had a Pluto in Libra or Pluto in Virgo.

I am also Pluto in Scorpio and Plutonian. I am shocked you are too because our generation is soo weird. They agree with everything and seem to have no morals or no behavior.

posted July 17, 2016 02:37 AM              

Your lack of knowledge can be seen again in your proclamation that acceptance has nothing to do with encouraging people. I quote the dictionary definition of acceptance as follows, " ac·cept·ance/əkˈseptəns/, noun, The action or process of being received as adequate or suitable. synonyms: welcome, favorable reception, adoption. Agreement with or belief in an idea, opinion, or explanation." Astarte, if you deem an activity favorable, adequate, and suitable then (by default) you encourage the idea that nothing is wrong with the behavior. So again my perception / opinion has nothing to do with this. I am an analyzer and a scientist. I deal with facts. I also never (at ANY point in time) tried to convince you that in order to understand a person you must desire to change them. What I said was that in order to change someone you must first desire to understand them. Those are two totally different things altogether. I also clearly stated that the person must first seek you or want to change (want it to work). So I have no idea why you repeatedly mentioned only helping if it is offered and not egotistically forcing things on others. Go and re-read my post as many times as needed to comprehend / grasp what I said (b/c your failure to do so previously resulted in a waste of my time).

Furthermore, the ability to fully love is NOT based on the concept of acceptance with zero conditions. Where do you learn such madness from? (rhetorical question of course). By that logic, if someone you love takes to cutting their own wrists and you refuse to accept that behavior as ok then you do not love the person? That makes no sense. Love is not one-dimensional and all about acceptance as you and (unfortunately) so many others believe. If that person does not seek your help then no, you are not obligated to help them. However, the notion that since it is their choice and they are only hurting their own wrists always makes it ok for you to have nothing to do with it is rather selfish. Do you realize it is also someone's choice to jump off of a building? However, if you were there and you really cared you would probably try to help stop them. Yet by your logic, if we did not accept their choice to jump off of the building, we would not be displaying a true understanding of how to "fully love". Do you see how ridiculous that is? You should really stop subscribing to non-nonsensical notions that make no sense when applied in fundamental context (b/c that is where the true nature of it will reveal itself). Accepting the fact that someone cuts their own wrists as the definition of who they are can NEVER be more powerful than understanding how they've become that way and using that understanding to help them become so much stronger / greater. NEVER. Not only that, but if a person engages in self-destructive behavior (which is no different from wrist cutting) then that is a waste. Period. Addicted to heroine? That is a WASTE of what they could be doing. Obviously just b/c someone may be in a dark place now does not mean they will be in a dark place forever. It does not mean that they may not overcome it in their own time. However, as long as they are still in it...IT IS A WASTE.

posted July 17, 2016 02:43 AM              

If you do not feel you are anyone important / intelligent enough to distinguish destructive behavior then that is YOU not me. Who I am is a person who NEVER says things like "who am I to (insert anything here)". Humans are given the ability to judge / assess for a reason and as a human I'm going to use it. I use it when crossing the street and will never hesitate to use it in other circumstances as well. And lol @ your ideas regarding drug use and it not needing to be linked to some form of unhappiness. Please research the subject (b/c I can't be the one to teach you everything), but voluntary drug use is ALWAYS based in a form of unhappiness (esp with any person as emotional as a Scorpio Moon). We already discussed Laurent's feelings of rivalry and lack of worth (among other issues) yet you are here acting as if any drug abuse by him wouldn't have roots in unhappiness (smh). Also, I never said you or anyone had to be responsible for anyone's opportunity to escape a destructive destiny. I clearly said that people are not obligated to help a self-destructive person and that help is best given to those who seek your help (and only if you are spiritually equipped to do so). I was very clear about it. So if we are considering the aforementioned circumstances then yes, it is possible you would be robbing someone of help if you either rejected them or (worse) accepted their self-destructive behavior as ok. But I NEVER said you or anyone else had to. Furthermore, destiny in the sense I used it had nothing to do with whatever you are talking about. If that were the case I would not think anything you, I, or anyone else did would matter (b/c they would end up the same no matter what). That is obviously not my stance.The following quote is the dictionary definition of the word destined, "intended for or traveling toward (a particular place)". For example, if someone takes drugs, they are destined (moving towards) the destiny (path) of an addict. Notice the relation between the word destiny and destination. I was talking about a path, not a lack of free-will. So yes, people have the ability (if they choose) to help others escape reaching a destination (destiny) of self-destruction and misery. How is ANY of that incorrect?

posted July 17, 2016 03:27 AM              

quote:

---

Originally posted by @lycat74:
HAD TO POST THIS AGAIN WITHOUT QUOTING YOU. TOO CONFUSING

@LittleBlackCat: Wah gwan? Sak passe!! FIRST OFF BEFORE I BREAK IT DOWN, UR COMMENT IS GIVING ME LIFE!!! LOL. Thanks for the compliments. <3

I agree with all of this. For Sag it's very unclear about their darkness (it's not even intentional most of the time). Perhaps it borrowing energy from it's Jupiter ruled mate Pisces. Sags definitely have a ego (if they didn't then frankly they don't deserve to be in the fire signs club" I am surprised your Pluto is in Scorpio. I thought you were much older and had a Pluto in Libra or Pluto in Virgo.

I am also Pluto in Scorpio and Plutonian. I am shocked you are too because our generation is soo weird. They agree with everything and seem to have no morals or no behavior.

BTW I know who Mavado is, my bro used to stay play "weh dem a do". Random but I gotta question, U Trini to di bone?

---

Wait deh...Lycat mi nevah know seh yuh know bout dancehall. Mi love da song deh "weh dem ah do, weh dem a try, marrow will fly" lol. Big up yuhself .

I'm Jamaican and yes this quoting business can be tricky sometimes.
Oh and you're welcome , I was just being honest though. You really did make good points. Just as you have done once again by introducing the idea of Sag borrowing Piscean energy via Jupiter. Not sure why I never thought of that.

posted July 18, 2016 07:23 PM              

1.) People often try to take advantage of Sag's generous nature (most Sag would give you the shirt of their backs without much issue).

2.) JEALOUSLY. Oh-my-goodness. Sag people face alot of jealousy from others. Nearly all of the Sag people I knew growing up had this problem.