posted October 31, 2016 12:52 PM            

I've been wondering who thinks what, and why.

My argument:

Yes, ASC = birth time.

If we ALL might have our ASC (rectified "birth time") off by hours, I don't know how any information about rising signs came to be known in the first place. (And how did the whole notion of the houses ever get off the ground and gain merit, historically?)

For instance, how do we know what "Virgo rising" looks like, if we are going by official birth times to begin with, to get that overall picture....and not rectifying every single chart where the given birth-ASC is Virgo?

How did the foundational knowledge of what Virgo ASC looks like come into existence in the first place, if all birth times are subject to debate?

One might think it's reasonable to just lump people together according to their looks, and assign birth times based on which category they seem to be in. But how did the original template, the original look, distinguish itself?

posted October 31, 2016 01:01 PM            

This may not be a direct answer to your question, but I decided to try rectifying my chart because outside worldly circumstances didn't prove the chart. I felt like if I had Mars in Scorpio on my Ascendant, I would be WAY more outwardly aggressive and with all of my Ascendant squares, I would be perceived in a much more misunderstood light. I would've reacted much more aggressively to everyone in general and may have murdered my father at this point (not gonna lie).

The thing is though, I've observed that my outside worldly circumstances have been making me feel out of alignment with my chart, so my chart had to be wrong in some sort of way. As for physical representation of ascendants, you'll have to ask Kannon, but that's my experience.

posted October 31, 2016 01:07 PM            

quote:

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I have a strong feeling that you might've posted this after seeing me rectify my chart to Virgo Ascendant

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posted October 31, 2016 01:13 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Faith:
Hi Electro,

Yes. And just seeing the growing trend in significantly altered ASCs got me hoping for a more substantial exploration of it.

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I would be interested as well.

Even after having gotten my chart rectified, I don't like abandoning my Scorpio ascendant and 8th house Moon at all. In fact, I HATE IT. I loved my chart and even though I was initially excited to get my chart rectified, I cannot stand it anymore. Perhaps it's an ego-bound issue, but it's kind of like looking at the chart and going, "what the hell, not in a million years." I don't like the idea of being a Virgo Ascendant honestly (not because it's a bad ascendant), and even though people say it's more accurate, I still cling to my original chart in ways.

posted October 31, 2016 01:20 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Electro DGX:
I would be interested as well.

Even after having gotten my chart rectified, I don't like abandoning my Scorpio ascendant and 8th house Moon at all. In fact, I HATE IT. I loved my chart and even though I was initially excited to get my chart rectified, I cannot stand it anymore. Perhaps it's an ego-bound issue, but it's kind of like looking at the chart and going, "what the hell, not in a million years." I don't like the idea of being a Virgo Ascendant honestly (not because it's a bad ascendant), and even though people say it's more accurate, I still cling to my original chart in ways.

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I mean, Virgo is a pretty boring ASC. Probably the most seemingly "bland" ASC one can have. There's been many times I've tried to talk myself into having a different ASC (especially because my recorded birth time puts my ASC at 28°), but at the end of the day, I am extremely Mercurial and there's no point trying to dart around that.

Electro, from what I've seen on your picture threads, I do *feel* as if you're a Scorpio ASC. You have the same energetic vibe as my boyfriend does in pictures, who is a Scorpio ASC (I've seen his birth time recorded in 3 different places - all the same time - can't imagine a different ASC for him). He's introverted, not some hyper-alpha-masculine dude, and isn't confrontational. The Scorpio energy plays out with him being private, having an incisive mind, a certain mystical look/vibe, and loving to get to the depths of something - whether it's hideous or beautiful, he's always out for the complete truth.

I also think it's important to bear in mind that while you're wildly perceptive for your age, you *are* still developing into the person you're going to fully be someday. Being a teenager is all about trial and error, even when you're as bright as you are. Things aren't set in stone at this age - especially not something as malleable as personality traits and interpersonal skills. Hell, the frontal cortex of the brain doesn't even stop developing until you're 25!

I got into astrology when I was 16 and thought, "Venus in the 7th? Moon in the 5th??? Um that's SO not me..." but 10 years later and many relationships under my belt, I have enough experience to see how "me" these placements really are.

I don't know about the physical characteristics. I do not look like a stereotypical Virgo rising at ALL, nothing is conjunct my ASC, and no one has ever been able to "correctly" guess my ASC on here in the many picture threads I've participated in..

posted October 31, 2016 01:21 PM            

Because of your circumstances I also believe you have an 8H moon.

Well I have grown to love the order I see in astrology as I've been using it. To accept that birth time is NOT a space-time fact but rather a soul-choice introduces a whole huge cloud that fuzzies over the beauty of whatever I've been looking at before.

For instance when I got married:

17.56 Virgo, my progressed Juno
17.56 Virgo, my husband's progressed sun

Perfect!

posted October 31, 2016 01:36 PM            

I will say you can be critical and want everything to be organized and clean, you don't like messes but you are awesome none the less!

Scorpio rising has a bunch of bad stuff, a lot to overcome, confront, a lot of evolving to do etc...we are not this easy energy that everyone welcomes unless we are in a real good mood, we react too strongly emotionally to things and not great at been detached and cool and a tendency towards extremes "I despise you, I adore you" and towards been paranoid.

A light ascendant is way better, maybe libra rising would have been nice.

posted October 31, 2016 01:37 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by athenaia:
I mean, Virgo is a pretty boring ASC. Probably the most seemingly "bland" ASC one can have. There's been many times I've tried to talk myself into having a different ASC (especially because my recorded birth time puts my ASC at 28°), but at the end of the day, I am extremely Mercurial and there's no point trying to dart around that.

Electro, from what I've seen on your picture threads, I do *feel* as if you're a Scorpio ASC. You have the same energetic vibe as my boyfriend does in pictures, who is a Scorpio ASC (I've seen his birth time recorded in 3 different places - all the same time - can't imagine a different ASC for him). He's introverted, not some hyper-alpha-masculine dude, and isn't confrontational. The Scorpio energy plays out with him being private, having an incisive mind, a certain mystical look/vibe, and loving to get to the depths of something - whether it's hideous or beautiful, he's always out for the complete truth.

I also think it's important to bear in mind that while you're wildly perceptive for your age, you *are* still developing into the person you're going to fully be someday. Being a teenager is all about trial and error, even when you're as bright as you are. Things aren't set in stone at this age - especially not something as malleable as personality traits and interpersonal skills. Hell, the frontal cortex of the brain doesn't even stop developing until you're 25!

I got into astrology when I was 16 and thought, "Venus in the 7th? Moon in the 5th??? Um that's SO not me..." but 10 years later and many relationships under my belt, I have enough experience to see how "me" these placements really are.

I don't know about the physical characteristics. I do not look like a stereotypical Virgo rising at ALL, nothing is conjunct my ASC, and no one has ever been able to "correctly" guess my ASC on here in the many picture threads I've participated in..

That being said I think Kannon is utterly brilliant and I cannot presume to know the mathematical ins and outs of rectification.

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He does have Mars in scorpio and in his rectified chart he has pluto square ascendant.

posted October 31, 2016 01:39 PM            

My birth asc (Libra) and rectified (Virgo) have quite a bit of contrast in personality.

In your opinion, would you assume Libra or Virgo?

It gets confusing and I think that's true of most people.
In my chart, you could take either and say, "Well it's your moon or etc that makes you occasionally outgoing and social."

Or, "it's your other Virgo, 12th, Pluto in first that makes you quiet and introverted."

How does one know for sure?

Thoughts?

posted October 31, 2016 01:54 PM            

Further I was born in the Dominican Republic which is not known for punctuality and has a very laid back culture, is an island in the Caribbean after all. It would not surprise me at all for a hospital there not to be accurate about reporting the time of birth correctly and for this to happen in many countries throughout the world.

Think about it... we are talking about a high stress environment were multiple people are giving birth at the same time run by humans who are deeply flawed and have terrible memories and how much do they really care about getting a birth time super accurate? lets be honest, most people don't follow astrology. This been said I would think in America too birth times are recorded incorrectly as well...

Further there is the theory of when your soul is born as opposed to when you are coming out of your mother's vagina which is what Kannon argues in one of his threads.

posted October 31, 2016 02:03 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by DopGang:
Faith,

My birth asc (Libra) and rectified (Virgo) have quite a bit of contrast in personality.

In your opinion, would you assume Libra or Virgo?

It gets confusing and I think that's true of most people.
In my chart, you could take either and say, "Well it's your moon or etc that makes you occasionally outgoing and social."

Or, "it's your other Virgo, 12th, Pluto in first that makes you quiet and introverted."

How does one know for sure?

Thoughts?

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Your instincts for one, that Ahaa moment were things that didn't fit before are no longer an issue in your chart and everything just fits finally ridiculously well. You realize that transits now make a hell of a lot of more sense too

posted October 31, 2016 02:16 PM            

quote:

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Further there is the theory of when your soul is born as opposed to when you are coming out of your mother's vagina which is what Kannon argues in one of his threads.

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posted October 31, 2016 02:25 PM              

Faith,

just for the record, though iw onīt get into a debate on this here. I find this concept a bit arbitrary.

Though there are instances that a rectification is recommended, this is usually with rounded birthtimes.

But the birthtime of your soul, is a much too subjective concept for me. (well some people believe your soul incarnates in your body possibly somewhen within the first 2 years or even later - so are we changing the birthdate at will, too?)

I know that Kannon is a big defender of the birthtime of the soul and adjusting the ASC accordingly, and simply said, I disagree.

I`ve been working with "traditional (recorded) birthtimes" for over 25 years now, and have never had any reason to doubt them.

Only in the case of very rounded birthtimes I did a rectification, but we are talking about minutes here, not hours.

EDIT
I am in Germany though, and over here at least for the last 40 years or so, birthtimes are documented meticulously just when the birth happens.

posted October 31, 2016 03:19 PM              

quote:

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Originally posted by Vegasdlt36:
I highly doubt the birth time on any birth certificate is off by hours.

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posted October 31, 2016 04:06 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by hypatia238:

Scorpio rising has a bunch of bad stuff, a lot to overcome, confront, a lot of evolving to do etc...we are not this easy energy that everyone welcomes unless we are in a real good mood, we react too strongly emotionally to things and not great at been detached and cool and a tendency towards extremes "I despise you, I adore you" and towards been paranoid.

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Aw, what's not to love there?

posted October 31, 2016 04:11 PM            

I can't reject the "spiritual birth time " concept.So long as it comes supported with real-life evidence in the form of transits.

What fascinates me about it, is its precision. As its advocates do not make general statements and are very detail oriented.

I started to take precision calculation a lot more seriously with the current Pluto transit to my Mercury.

So many things came to light with its retrograde motion on the 16-14 Degree mark(my Mercury being at 16)

Lauren Delsack once said in her videos on birth time rectification; "The chart has got to sing". And I agree.

I started to enquirer about my birth time and Asc position after my Saturn return.

The initial time given gave me Taurus rising. Then my mother came back with an earlier time- Aries.

I didn't "recognize" Aries nor Taurus. So I had my chart rectified by an astrologer... they came up with Aries 29 Degrees(based on my life events)

Later when I read that the Asc is a sensitive point to transits, I realized that this could be the most objective way of ascertaining whether this point was indeed as sensitive as suggested.

I know that people tend to weigh the "personality" and "looks" aspect of it that much more. But I think that these should work together.

If you have Virgo rising 10-15,Neptune transits should be causing some "confusion and wipe-out" in the areas of relationships(7th).

Perhaps some health issues could also be showing up(6th)? As well as issue with identity since Neptune would be in opposition to the Asc(self)?

If you have Cancer rising 13-18 ,Pluto transits should be sorting out the 6th (health scare)/7th (significant relationship start or break up)or even an identity transformation (Pluto is opposing Asc)

Whatever it is, it is likely to be quite monumental and have an "irreversible" quality to it.

Uranus will be moving to the 29th degree and will affect my Asc degree point exact and -something has got to click. Jupiter and Saturn will too(opposing and squaring it sometime in the coming years)

If nothing happens in and around the 29th degree, then it is not a sensitive point and I will reject that Asc degree position and wait for Saturn to reach the 29th Degree to confirm what I have already concluded.

I always test Asc point with transits.So I can easily detach from it if its not accurate or does not "sing".

posted October 31, 2016 04:23 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by soren:
my chart never sang. not until i learned a lot more. for the longest time i hated where my asc was.

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