posted November 01, 2016 02:46 PM              

quote:

---

Originally posted by the89freespirit:
Sure we are all vast and infinite and totally complex. The chart itself shows that. But if we cannot pinpoint what all those complex parts mean, what is the point of this whole study?

---

posted November 01, 2016 02:48 PM              

quote:

---

Originally posted by the89freespirit:
Also I have heard certain placements described as someone not being ready to be born yet. When taken in the context of this discussion, that is very interesting, especially if the baby was a caesarean birtg and was born at a somewhat later degree, which I was (18 degrees). Maybe this can symbolize some lack of correlation between the physical birth and when a person actually wanted to be born on a soul level and incarnate as, creating a feeling of discrepancy between the two.

---

posted November 01, 2016 02:49 PM              

quote:

---

Originally posted by soren:
yeah i agree. let the most logical explanation be heard, and if others have a different point of view, its good to hear it, incase they are right.

so far there is not really many disagreements. for spirit i was merely saying our chart is much more complex. i myself never thought the description of aquarius matched me very much. i didnt like it. when i found out about how the houses are likely the exact same as the signs, then it started to fit better. so thats why they should keep in mind, some descriptions might be off, which is what he/she was doing. but as we already know, the birth time (assuming they had it) is likely the official chart. so IF they do actually have a cap rising, and it doesnt resonate, as my aqua sun didnt fully resonate, is to know that 1) the rising is weak compared to the sun. and 2) there are other zodiacs such as houses, and possibly more that align and start around the horizon and often somewhat have the borders of their zodiacs in a similar position to the houses, so the houses may have more merit than the signs, maybe even 30x more.

---

I have to be honest. You can word things in a pretty confusing way. Do you have Mercury in Pisces?

I feel like this is what I was saying when I said that the houses in my chart mostly line up with Aquarius Rising's conventional house system, hence why the conventional Capricorn Rising profile doesn't really fit. So maybe we agree on that? But I am not sure what you mean when you say "there are other zodiacs such as houses". That the house line up is more important than the sign?

posted November 01, 2016 02:52 PM              

I could explain about all the other houses. I believe equal house exists. I believe placidus also exists and is from the daily path. I also believe there may be an equatorial house system, based off having a planet change signs when the other 3 zodiacs (ecliptic, equal, placidus) had their borders no where near where the planets progressed.
Edit: sorry 1 of them may have had their borders near.

So that is what i meant by more house systems and how they might be more important than merely the sign placement.
COuld be wrong though!

posted November 01, 2016 02:55 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by bananaz:
Really enjoyed reading this thread. This might be overly simplistic, but can't you tell your rising from when you begin to feel personal transits? When I look at the degree, in my mind I circle it within its own 5 degree or so orb. For example, I was born on a cusp and I'm still not sure if I am a late degree Pisces ASC or an early Aries, but I just kind of circle that area on the chart, and declare that I am conjunct with that space, just as you would a planetary conjunction. Hopefully that makes sense...

---

I like this.

posted November 01, 2016 03:03 PM              

quote:

---

Originally posted by YellowGerbera:
All these procedures took 15min or so before they officially wrote everything down on my medical chart. Further, how do one check if the hospital clocks are super accurate lol? What if it's 5min behind in that room.. What if it was 10min faster??

---

quote:

---

[B]
I think it's nice to find out THE exact birth time but I think we can't forget that energy flows and it's fluid - there is no clear cut beginning and ending so finding this exact time may not be as important as we discuss on here...?

---

posted November 01, 2016 03:10 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by the89freespirit:

@ hypatia,

Thanks and I totally get where you're coming from! I think having your chart ruler in the 12th is quite a special case and it looks like we both have it. It can create a dissociation from the Rising sign a lot of the times. And I feel like, when the chart ruler is in the 12th, you're not really supposed to personally connect to your Ascendant. You feel it on a more transpersonal level and it can create this shift where you focus more on the energy of the other sign in the 1st to compensate. You feel that sign more personally and individually, especially if there is a placement in the 1st in that sign.

Basically, I think this is a very interesting discussion and instead of seeing it in black-or-white, we should look at it in a more nuanced light. I still feel that it's very possible that some of us incarnate in this life in an Ascendant that isn't the right fit for us. And we are born at the exact time we are born, and given the placements we're given, in order to increasingly move away from that sign's energy and take on the one that is more aligned with our purpose in life. I feel like, for example, it is no coincidence that almost all of my house cusps are the traditional house cusps of Aquarius Rising and many of my house placements align with Aquarius Rising (Sun in the 7th/Leo ruling the 7th, Aries in the 3rd, Gemini in the 5th, Saturn in the 12th/Capricorn ruling the 12th). It's another reason why I relate way more to Aquarius than Capricorn, especially at this stage in my development.

So, yes, the physical Ascendant, the Ascendant one is born with, is defined by the exact time of birth. But, maybe, the sign before or after the Ascendant can, for certain people, represent what we actually came into this life to do and will eventually embody.

It's not the mathematical, logical way of looking at it. But, let's not act like astrology is purely scientific and rational because it's not. There is a science to it but this also a spiritual study. So, we cannot just purely consider the physical elements. They are important but also limiting, just like only looking at someone's physical features to determine their Ascendant. We also definitely have to take the soul into account and the soul is a very complex force.

---

I love how you think and how your mind works. I am so curious about your chart right now!

posted November 01, 2016 03:12 PM              

quote:

---

Originally posted by soren:
I know you said that the aquarius sign dominates your first house. i didn't see much value in that because there is no planetary body there.

I could explain about all the other houses. I believe equal house exists. I believe placidus also exists and is from the daily path. I also believe there may be an equatorial house system, based off having a planet change signs when the other 3 zodiacs (ecliptic, equal, placidus) had their borders no where near where the planets progressed.
Edit: sorry 1 of them may have had their borders near.

So that is what i meant by more house systems and how they might be more important than merely the sign placement.
COuld be wrong though!

No I dont have merc pisces, i have a progressed sun in the 12th. Using primary directions.

---

Gotcha. Well that's a whole other topic. And I have no planets in Aquarius. But I said before, I have the North Node in Aquarius in the 1st. Not a planet but just as powerful as one, if not more.

So I don't think one can describe a house as empty if a Node is in it, because it then makes a significant part of your destiny, either involving where you have been in life (South) or the path you need to walk in life and how you evolve as a person (North). And it is very common, in fact necessary, for a person with the 1st House North Node to behave a lot like the sign their NN is in and relate a lot to it. If it is different from the Ascendant, that can create the relative (though not complete) disconnect throughout life from the sign the Ascendant is in.

posted November 01, 2016 03:25 PM              

Well thanks. Sorry again if I got a bit snappy before. I just misunderstood you, I think. But it is good to see that we can all bounce our opinions and thoughts around without needing to settle on one answer. That's what this forum should be for!

@hypatia,

Thanks. It must be that Scorpio Midheaven/Moon showing haha. I didn't intend to be fired up or passionate when I wrote it. But online and in public forums, you come off as your Midheaven no matter what you do.

posted November 01, 2016 03:33 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Faith:

And by the way, I feel confident that my chart is rectified correctly not just from the ASC, but I think my IC must be between 23-26 Libra, because so many people in my family have placements in that range. My name asteroid is there, too.

---

Faith, when you said this, a lightbulb went off in my head. The degrees of my IC via my recorded birth time play out time and time again in my synastries with people, particularly with my synastry with my father and maternal grandmother.

I think you may have just discovered a top notch way of figuring out one's birth time

posted November 01, 2016 03:40 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by the89freespirit:
@ soren

Well thanks. Sorry again if I got a bit snappy before. I just misunderstood you, I think. But it is good to see that we can all bounce our opinions and thoughts around without needing to settle on one answer. That's what this forum should be for!

@hypatia,

Thanks. It must be that Scorpio Midheaven/Moon showing haha. I didn't intend to be fired up or passionate when I wrote it. But online and in public forums, you come off as your Midheaven no matter what you do.

---

I could tell you were saying it in a calm detached way but felt a lot of passion too if that makes sense. Like you sounded calm and collected but felt this layer of passion too. I suppose it could be your MC in Scorpio yeah or your aquarius rising.

posted November 01, 2016 03:55 PM              

And I guess you should pay attention to how people react to you to figure that out, particularly in a context like this. And, of course, trust your own instinct about yourself, first and foremost.

posted November 01, 2016 04:52 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by soren:
Yes this was my brother. Ceasarian section. I felt incredibly bad for him. I told him he may have not gotten the time his soul wanted to be birthed at. He seems to be all positive and says "or maybe that's the right one" as if he was meant to get the c-section right at that time and it was what was best

---

I really wanted to say something about this. Hopefully you don't mind. But maybe it was what was best?

Let me explain.

If you believe your soul has a contract with the universe and agrees to come at a certain time in order to fulfill the chart you chose to achieve your own evolvement, then surely you must believe you're much more powerful than the physical world. Which would also mean the physical world couldn't force you to join it without adhering to that plan. Right?

posted November 01, 2016 06:25 PM              

bananaz, thank you. you may be right. unfortuneately i'm not so sure to trust god anymore or the universe.

posted November 01, 2016 06:44 PM              

this is interesting to look at. top 3: cap, -> scorpio, aqua, all with sun's in the 3 other theorized houses. you can really tell from this picture the different energy, since we are dealing with the sun, imo the most powerful part of the chart, to have sun in leo 3 thoeritical times, and scorpio in one. if there were other zodiacs, then we could say maybe their sun is also in capricorn, and this wont be as accurate. but i believe i found most of the main zodiacs. so this is what we get to see. out of 4 zodiacs (might be one more but that involves everyones sun being on the cusp of the 1st/12th).

posted November 01, 2016 07:27 PM            

The Ascendant is the individual himself. Much as the Sun is the ego, and the Moon the emotions. The sign of the Ascendant is derived from the time of birth. Through that sign the Ascendant expresses himself.

As with most things subject to human judgment, errors are a possibility. Sometimes the recording of birth times are erroneous. In those instances there will be a disconnect between the Ascendant, and the filter/sign through which that Ascendant projects.

For those of us that want to take guessing out of the Ascendant sign...

posted November 05, 2016 09:27 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Lunae:
Before anything else, here's the story about the change in my birth time:

The time on my certificate was 7:35 pm. Thing is, my mom wrote in her memoir of sorts that she was rushed to the hospital at 10 pm the night before and went into labor for 9 hours. This would mean that I was born in the morning and not in the evening, like my birth certificate says.

---