posted October 17, 2012 01:20 AM            

and i for one don't want to repeat those mistakes. lol

posted October 17, 2012 01:31 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Lei_Kuei:
I think its more a case of "Challenge" as opposed to Bad Boys... A nice guy who cannot pose a challenge to a woman's intellect or is incapable of dominating (NOT-abusive domination) her sexually is useless

I would never date a guy who is incapable of either of those

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posted October 17, 2012 01:33 AM            

Lost my patience for it a long time ago, too.

They ain't gettin' past us anymore.

Only the best are worth our time.

posted October 17, 2012 01:40 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by aquaguy91:
so you're saying nice guys can't be smart? lmao

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alright then. Here's one for you guys:

Men Smart, Women are Smarter
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N9HW3UNY1T4

Grateful Dead

posted October 17, 2012 01:49 AM            

what's up? all you got is cricket sounds chirping for us, aquaguy? is that how you react to all smart nice girls? Ignore? Kinda Aqua of you. ...may be something to think about. ;p

posted October 17, 2012 02:36 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by T:
mercurian,

what's up? all you got is cricket sounds chirping for us, aquaguy? is that how you react to all smart nice girls? Ignore? Kinda Aqua of you. ...may be something to think about. ;p

Stop focussing on the ones who "like bad boys" and pay attention to the nice ones. You might find yourself a nice girlfriend. But could you handle a nice girl?

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posted October 17, 2012 03:06 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by T:
I think most healthy women grow out of this. Even if they had a-hole dads (or moms!).

I know I've accidentally dated bad boys, thinking at first that they were good boys. Only later to learn otherwise.

There are probably many woman like me who are extremely tired of the bad-boy types, especially after having been thru the wringer with one or two. And especially when they "sneak up on you" and show their true colors only a few months into the relationship when theyve already hooked you.

Aquaguy, remember that just because you watch a female hook up with what you determine is a douch-bag does not necessarliy mean he is, or that the woman is a dumb@ss - or only likes a-holes , or that no good can come from the connection.

You are not the be all, end all, know all - "final word" of all men and couplings on the planet.

A guy might seem douch-y to you, but the female might need to learn things from him and in the process become stronger and learn what not to go for, or what to look out for next time.

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posted October 17, 2012 03:27 AM            

I'm keeping in mind that you said you are 21 years old (i think i read that somewhere) and it's a typical view of many single guys at that age. Even if they say theyve seen it with older women and have a ton of evidence (in your short time on this planet) etc

Do you think this outlook could be a great excuse for you right now? A way for you to expalin some things away or place the blame on others, not face things in yourself? I think (hope) that ten or so years from now, you will be singing a different tune. You sound like a typical jaded guy in your age group right now, who might just be going after the wrong kind of girl as well.

Maybe after a few relationships, years and world experience, you will see things differently. Actually there's no way you couldnt.

You might be a late bloomer and find the right person for you down the road someday. Just dont become too rigid or bitter now and make those beliefs so concrete in your mind or you will set yourself up to keep meeting the only females you think are out there.

That's not all that's out there you know? You might not see it now, but youre still a young guy and havent had a lot of experience in the world. Right now you think you know everything and have seen it all, but you dont. Come back when you are 35 and see how differently you feel.

Just saying, if you insist on being that adamant that that is what women want and you know all about them - all of them - and lump them all together, and use that as an excuse to say that you have no chance of meeting a "nice" one, then that is all you will see and find in your life. You will continue to find that, because that's where your mind is focussed. That's what your mind has made up to believe.

More to say, but i'm eating a delicious pizza right now and catching up on some shows. Hope i gave you some food for thought. Come back to me when you are my age and tell me how right i was. haha!

posted October 17, 2012 03:37 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by T:
Oh stop it.

I'm keeping in mind that you said you are 21 years old (i think i read that somewhere) and it's a typical view of many single guys at that age. Even if they say theyve seen it with older women and have a ton of evidence (in your short time on this planet) etc

Do you think this outlook could be a great excuse for you right now? A way for you to expalin some things away or place the blame on others, not face things in yourself? I think (hope) that ten or so years from now, you will be singing a different tune. You sound like a typical jaded guy in your age group right now, who might just be going after the wrong kind of girl as well.

Maybe after a few relationships, years and world experience, you will see things differently. Actually
there's no way you couldnt.

You might be a late bloomer and find the right person for you down the road someday. Just dont become too rigid or bitter now and make those beliefs so concrete in your mind or you will set yourself up to
keep meeting the only females you think are out
there.

That's not all that's out there you know? You might not see it now, but youre still a young guy and havent had a lot of experience in the world. Right now you
think you know everything and have seen it all, but
you dont. Come back when you are 35 and see how
differently you feel.

Just saying, if you insist on being that adamant that that is what women want and you know all about them - all of them - and lump them all together, and use that as an excuse to say that you have no chance
of meeting a "nice" one, then that is all you will see
and find in your life. You will continue to find that,
because that's where your mind is focussed. That's
what your mind has made up to believe.

More to say, but i'm eating a delicious pizza right now and catching up on some shows. Hope i gave you some food for thought. Come back to me when you are my age and tell me how right i was. haha!

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posted October 17, 2012 07:39 AM            

I wish I could go back and know what I knew then, without having to learn it, so painfully, now.

I am re-learning what I used to know. The human being is not a pretty picture. The Bible shows humans the way they are.

That is another indication that is is divine. Most other "religions" show man as exalted.

At any rate, this is the lesson I am learning and it relates, directly, to bad boys/good boys.

See a person's actions. Know yourself. These are, probably, your best tools in the situation. *Sigh*

------------------
Passion, Lust, Desire. Check out my journal

posted October 17, 2012 08:29 AM            

------------------
Passion, Lust, Desire. Check out my journal

posted October 17, 2012 08:57 AM            

And then this song about a dysfunctional couple (kinda reminds me of my 'rents, makes me wonder why I didn't swear myself to celibacy in retrospect) won multiple awards and even then only won less than half of what it was nominated for showing many men as well as women related to it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uelHwf8o7_U

And when the movie Serenity came out I recall seeing a lot of men posting that they wanted to MARRY that nutcase River after seeing her go insane and slaughter a bunch of monsters. Yeah, it was pretty cool and all, but MARRY?

And I knew a guy who was always whining how women rejected him for being too nice...though he most definitely was not (another delusion he had was he thought stalking was cute and attractive)...but the women he pursued? Druggies and party animals (much like Whiskey Girl above).

posted October 17, 2012 09:50 AM            

Over time, things changed. After the novelty of the relationship died down, so did his sex drive. Unhealthy bodies are generally not driven towards reproduction, you know what I mean? My baseline sex drive was roughly 7 times that of his. Then, the fits of rage became more frequent. A few times he lashed out in defense of me. I thought it was cute that he tried to protect me. Usually though he was throwing a temper tantrum over something trivial. In the final 9 months, he became really lazy about shielding me from smoke. And by this point, we hadn't made out in like years, so the popping a gum or mint thing to kiss me was a moot point. There were pecks only exchanged between us. Particularly a shame since he remains the best kisser I've ever kissed. We had moved in together. I went from being his lover to his mom. It astounded me that I could vacuum and the very next day there would be tobacco and toenails (which he would pick off and flick) all over the floor. I would have to vacuum daily, sometimes twice a day. I started fighting back, making my expectations known and criticizing him. He responded by punching holes in our doors or breaking the fans. He never helped me with buying the groceries or toiletries, even after he bought a car. I would have to buy them all myself and walk them home and then he would throw me half the cost. We'd both sort of pat him on the head ("Good boy!") when he'd help me out by stopping at the store and picking up the milk bags, which were a bit too heavy for me to carry home. He'd do the laundry, but then I would want to put my clean laundry away and he would throw his on the floor. Things got really bad when I straight-up told him to his face that he wasn't even a man. He was a manchild. He responded by blaming me for his flagging libido and basically charging me with emasculating and overly domesticating him (how this is possible, I'll never know since I let him play video games every single night, which he clearly preferred to sex). We would have what I deemed "the Saturday fight" - he would wake up in a bad mood on Saturday mornings and pick fights with me, which would end with my Piscean moon self in tears by Saturday afternoon and us making up and going to a movie by Saturday night. But in the first year, he would also take me out to museums and other outings; after we moved in together, he stopped. He wouldn't bother to take me to anything but dinner and a movie, which was genuinely his favourite way to decompress - he told me he loved and looked forward to our "date nights." Otherwise he'd rather be at home rolling joints and playing video games. We began to live increasingly separate lives. I was spending more time with my friends than with him. Balance had always been a bit of struggle because we both had full-time jobs and he would jam/record with his band. But it came to the point where he was turning down opportunities to come out with me (I'd always invite him) because he would prefer to play video games than be social. His bad temper resurfaced with a vengeance. One day in the car I couldn't use his iPhone map app to give him directions and he called me useless - in front my friend. He screamed at me one Saturday that I was a f****ng c**t. He was extremely verbally abusive. But always remorseful and guilty afterwards.

He'd also always been commitmentphobic from the beginning, willing to call himself my boyfriend but whenever I would make allusions to the distant future he would always just say, "Yeah, we'll see. Let's take things a day at a time," dismissively. He even said this in front of my mother!! I had attributed this to his being a Sagittarius (as well as the thoughtless comment in front of my mother).

Even through all of this - this oftentimes very stormy and volatile, essentially sexless relationship - we remained the best of friends. I really enjoyed just hanging out with him. He can still make me laugh harder than almost anybody. We share similar interests and many friends. And even though his approach was messed up, I liked knowing that he had my back, that he would defend me and stick up for me when someone was treating me wrong (I later realized it was a screwed-up dynamic, like nobody could be disrespectful towards me but him in his mind). I ended up cheating on him - kissing another guy, which I eventually told him about. Things were beyond the point of repair by the time I fessed up. His constant criticism and charging me with cramping his style had me crying myself to sleep many nights, as did the sexual rejection. And I learned that when you live with a smoker, you will ALWAYS end up inhaling smoke, no matter how careful they are in the beginning. The point is, I overlooked the red flags when I met him because he was exactly what I needed at the time. And even after everything we've been through together and the ways in which we hurt each other, he's still interested in what I have to say, it means everything to him that we remain close, that we remain friends. That we can still hang out and "shoot the s**t." He lives a very stressful life and says I'm his biggest respite, that he looks forward to seeing me and the guaranteed laughs. I think what kept him in the relationship for too long was the fear of hurting me and especially of losing my friendship. He had come to rely on it as a source of happiness. He knows that he needs to work on himself before he can be in a relationship with someone, and I know he feels a lot of remorse for the way he treated me. In fact, he even told me he does. There's a lot about him that is bad, but I can't say that he's a bad person. I think he's like all of us: a work-in-progress. When he moved out (his first time living alone), he actually said that he needs to learn how to be the man that a woman deserves.

Would I date a musician/smoker/stoner/someone who'd been in anger management again? No. No matter HOW cute they were or the fact that they were romantic and would often kiss the top of my hand or slowdance with me on the subway platform while we await the train (oh yes, he swept me off my feet that first year). But I am older and wiser now, and more aware of my needs. The "no musician" rule isn't a result of the stereotype that they're players - many of his musician friends were the farthest thing from it - but because I know how much time the band consumes and how self-destructive the accompanying lifestyle is. I only know one musician who doesn't smoke (including pot) and some of them do coke.

I guess what I am trying to say is that we live and we learn, and I agree with ali221 - what might seem obvious to you from the outside might not be as cut-and-dry, black-and-white as you paint it, Aquaguy. If you saw us together 3 years ago you might say, "Oh, why is she dating this 'bad boy'? Just another woman being a woman." (He had also had a reputation for promscuity in his early 20's.) He never once cheated on me. For all his faults he was very faithful. And so your assessment would be a gross oversimplification. When he met me, he was ready for a relationship. He had a desire to change. He DID treat me very well, at first. It turns out that our intentions can surpass our capabilities. I know he had good intentions. But at the end of the day, he is who he is. And maybe only long-term therapy can change those deeply-ingrained habits. He grew up in a home where his mother was very verbally abusive (though not physically, at least not towards the kids, he did witness his mother abuse his father on a few occasions though) and he subsequently became verbally abusive in his relationships with women. Not saying that's an excuse, I grew up in a home where my mother was both verbally and physically abusive and I am neither.

posted October 17, 2012 10:06 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by aquaguy91:
so you're saying nice guys can't be smart? lmao

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You are misreading my post

posted October 17, 2012 02:13 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by aquaguy91:
I'm not making excuses, just stating my experiences.I try to find nice girls who appreciate nice guys, but my experience is they are usually very naive and are the most likely to fall for players, that's been my experience so far anyways.

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Hey, it's reality. You can't change Lifestyles of the Young and Stupid. Let them be who they are. They get whatever they deserve. They make their beds, let them sleep in them, literally.

When I was young and stupid in college, I was a first class douche myself. The college girls loved that. I would say: "you want test answers, sure. I'll trade with you." We've heard about Fast and Furious. Mine was Math and Shag. And they loved it anyway because they rationalized that they would have wanted it anyway.

So, the stuff about nice guys being nice, question yourself again. Many "nice guys" also have hidden agendas that aren't so nice. My brother was worse than I was. As to "nice guys" not being intellectually capable, lol. My brother would do all the "nice guy" stuff and say all the "nice guy" things. He was also the captain of the college debate team of his era, as I was during my era. There goes the BS about "bad guys" being intellectually sharper.

I had more than my share when I was young. Changed them like I changed underwear. What does it matter? Did it end up with me finding somebody of quality from that pool? Of course not.

And then I graduated up and started working. Then the problem changed. Basically, they'll throw themselves at you for a couple of Benjies or fun involving benjies, which ends up ultimately with fun and shag. I got over that nonsense as well.

posted October 17, 2012 03:03 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by aquaguy91:
no self pity here, I'm just stating my experiences

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Totally. I love you Aqua guy.

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Passion, Lust, Desire. Check out my journal

posted October 17, 2012 03:48 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Ami Anne:
Totally. I love you Aqua guy.

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