Posts: 2346
From: Still out looking for Schrödinger's cat.........& LEXIGRAMMING... is my Passion!
Registered: Jan 2008

posted January 07, 2009 11:19 PM         

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You are welcome PA.

When I was a teen, I hitchhiked a lot.
Most kids did in those days.
One guy tried to kill me but I bashed him and escaped.
I regret not killing him.
He had already killed some girls and killed another after trying to kill me.
I turned in his plate number and he was killed by the cops weeks later.

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Posts: 4030
From: London
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posted January 07, 2009 11:21 PM         

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you can't play God though... you know?

you just can't! what gives me the right to kill a man because he is a rapist. No right. ever. even if he rapes me, l still don't have a right.

The Laws of the Universe are there for a reason. It's not mickey mouse!!!

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From: processing destination......
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posted January 07, 2009 11:23 PM         

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Jeeeeez, LEXX

Wow.

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Posts: 7904
From: Australia
Registered: May 2008

posted January 07, 2009 11:24 PM         

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Lexx

That's really honest. I mean, really really honest, to say that, you wish you'd killed that person.

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From: Australia
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posted January 07, 2009 11:27 PM         

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The Laws of the Universe are in place for each of us equally. Including the person willing to kill or harm you and your loved ones. Does this mean that their intentions are supported by God or the Universe, or whatever you want to call it?

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From: Still out looking for Schrödinger's cat.........& LEXIGRAMMING... is my Passion!
Registered: Jan 2008

posted January 07, 2009 11:29 PM         

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I have been raped more than once.
I am not talking about killing a rapist but a person who was definitely going to kill me or an innocent in my presence.
Any mother who would stand there and let their child be murdered, or person who would let a murder happen they can stop, by whatever means...is getting some very bad Karma for not protecting/defending. To just let it happen is cold blooded and being as bad as the murder is.
In fact it makes the non defender an accomplice to murder.

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From: London
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posted January 07, 2009 11:34 PM         

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WOW LEXX. respect. Now you not only have the best quote but you also stunned me with your honesty.

PA - they are not important. I am not living their life, but if they come into my life then there is a lesson and my lesson cannot turn into a greater lesson which is manslaughter vy default of self defense.

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From: Still out looking for Schrödinger's cat.........& LEXIGRAMMING... is my Passion!
Registered: Jan 2008

posted January 07, 2009 11:36 PM         

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I was in a bad knife fight once. Four girls...yeah teen girls were out to cut up or kill one girl.
They had ripped off all her clothes and cut her all over.
I came upon that scene and totally flipped out big time!
I had no knife but beat the crap out of them, and got cut too, but the girl was saved from them. I was so freaking angry!
I do not remember much except for wanting to save the girl and went into savage mode and let instinct take over before fear could.
It was the one and only fight I was ever in.
Some times we must defend the innocent!

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From: Still out looking for Schrödinger's cat.........& LEXIGRAMMING... is my Passion!
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posted January 07, 2009 11:39 PM         

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Thanks everyone.{{{HUGS}}}

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Life is not about waiting for the storms to pass, it's about learning to dance in the rain.

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From: Australia
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posted January 07, 2009 11:39 PM         

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It's not a matter of being right or wrong. It's a matter of you don't know what you would do in that situation unless you are placed in it. I'm just saying, "never say never".

It has nothing to do with forgiveness. Forgiveness is a choice afford to you after the fact. The question being, what are you prepared to do for survival in that moment? And the truth is - you never know - because it's not something that you will think about - you will act, some instinct will kick in. You can think about it until the cows come home, but you just don't know.

I think based on that, each of us has the potential to kill. No exceptions. It doesn't make it right - it just makes it survival.

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From: London
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posted January 07, 2009 11:40 PM         

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I agree with fighting back.. i never said otherwise.

Killing is not fighting back. Killing is using a weapon.
Self-defense is necessary. Actually, anyone who can get past my t'ai chi defense is doing pretty well.

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From: Australia
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posted January 07, 2009 11:41 PM         

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Wow Lexx. That's very brave. But it's also what I'm saying - you just don't think, instinct and action kick in. You just went in there - the only focus was that you wanted to help or save her. You know - some people would freeze up or run away. I think there'd be tremendous guilt in knowning you could have done something but didn't. That would be very hard to live with.

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From: Still out looking for Schrödinger's cat.........& LEXIGRAMMING... is my Passion!
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posted January 07, 2009 11:43 PM         

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PA

quote:

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The question being, what are you prepared to do for survival in that moment? And the truth is - you never know - because it's not something that you will think about - you will act, some instinct will kick in.

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I used to think it was wrong too.
But like you said..one really does not know until in a situation. Been there, done that.
Now I feel sometimes there is no other choice but to defend up to even killing if necessary.

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From: Australia
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posted January 07, 2009 11:43 PM         

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Self-defence is necessary. And in the act of that should you kill........

No-one at any stage has said killing for the sake of killing, and even as a last resort, should it just happen or come to that - it's your survival (or your loved ones) against theirs. If shooting them or whatever is your only option, you're going to take it. No matter what your ideals or place is spiritaully.

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From: Australia
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posted January 07, 2009 11:45 PM         

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Thanks Lexx.

The ONLY argument I'm making here is that no-one can say that they aren't capable of killing. I think everyone is - given the situation. Everyone.

Not saying it's right or wrong or ideal or otherwise. Just that every person has the potential (for any number of reasons).

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From: London
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posted January 07, 2009 11:49 PM         

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whatever

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From: Mercury
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posted January 07, 2009 11:52 PM         

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Absolutely. If someone broke into my home in the middle of the night and I didn't know who it was and thought they were a threat to my kids or myself, they are definitely are going to meet the business end of a Heckler & Koch HK45.

And the only other time is in other self defense situations where its either you or them.

No, I don't believe in capitol punishment. That is the easy way out for the bad guy. I believe in getting even.

------------------
Virgo Asc 6˚& Mars 0˚
Gemini Sun 24˚
Libra Moon 14˚(conjunct Pluto 0˚ in 2nd house)
Gemini Mercury 25˚
Cancer Venus 29˚
And yes, i'm a guy!

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From: London
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posted January 07, 2009 11:56 PM         

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The "getting even" attitude is why we now have Palestinians being killed in droves. It's why people feel they have the right to kill all over the planet.

Night guys... i'm not gonna flog a dead horse!

PS. I'm sorry LEXX that these things happened to you and i'm happy to see that you have managed to get past it all.

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From: Australia
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posted January 07, 2009 11:59 PM         

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Lara

I was having this discusion with someone the other day - and they said to me just nuke Israel and Palestine, then we can all have some peace. Are they wrong?

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From: London
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posted January 08, 2009 12:02 AM         

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Nuke the area and you will have WW3

Personally l believe they are wrong and stupid but l don't like to judge such volatile statements so i'd say it's pretty sad that people think about just sweeping other human lives under the carpet.

Also USA will just replace Israel with another country in need of money and power.

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From: Australia
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posted January 08, 2009 12:04 AM         

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quote:

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Nuke the area and you will have WW3

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Let things continue as they are and the same could happen. Which way brings peace?

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From: London
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posted January 08, 2009 12:10 AM         

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Culling America's power over the world would help. Taking the "power that be" to court and sentencing them to life-imprisonment for murder.

Obama will be the same. He will find a war somewhere, you'll see. He's no different sadly. As soon as he becomes the President of the USA he is silenced. A puppet. Notice he doesn't exactly oppose the Gaza killings!

The world is full of idiots babe who think that the Governments of the world are on their people's sides. They are not. In fact, they are so greedy they are prepared to kill all of us for what they want.

Maybe 2012 is the end of the world? The end of the super power and super greed. Maybe the financial world will plummet so much that we are all back to basics and out of that we can grow healthily again.

Am l making any sense? lol

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From: Still out looking for Schrödinger's cat.........& LEXIGRAMMING... is my Passion!
Registered: Jan 2008

posted January 08, 2009 12:12 AM         

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Thank Lara{{{HUGS}}}

And PA...yes...great guilt if I had just stood there and done nothing. That is not my nature.

As to an eye for an eye....that is not self defense.
That can go on forever.
Wars are crazy and soldiers and civilians pawns of the war mongers and the war machine.
I am anti-war.

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From: California
Registered: Nov 2006

posted January 08, 2009 04:52 PM         

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We are using our words differently.

I see "eye for an eye" killings as manslaughter to murder. Killing for survival, including self-defense, is another form of killing.

Fighting back can include weapons. In fact, if I'm to fight back against one or more guys that's twice my weight, I'd BETTER have some weapons! And btw, I've trained in martial arts for years, and while that's certainly advantageous, it's not "as good as" having a weapon, especially as it requires the attacker(s) getting too close. And what do I do if I'm ever put in a wheelchair, or after I get older and arthritic?

My mentor learned Tai Chi, but she still prefers a gun. Btw, her teacher was taken down by a simple sucker punch from a mugger, too. IMO, Tai Chi, while not altogether useless for self-defense, is better for people wanting better posture & balance than learning how to defend one's self (and even for self-defense, it would take months for even a little help at that).

Back when I was a 15-year-old runaway I fought back with 2 butterfly knives against a guy that was trying to kidnap me for the pimp he worked for. I slashed him, but I didn't get him good. Despite my being armed, he was a streetfighter much bigger than me that was confident of overpowering me anyway. But my krew running up made him jump back into the car he'd gotten out of and yell at the driver, "DRIVE!" I used weapons, but I don't see that as killing. (And I'm glad I had weapons and the will to use them, or what would've come after would've been very bad karma indeed!)

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posted January 08, 2009 04:56 PM         

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I wonder if the person who tried to assassinate Hitler sat around pontificating on this topic.

My guess is that Fist has to hand in a philosophy paper and is getting us to help out with brainstorming. If so, only the same as me many years ago when I was set the same question.

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