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Author Topic:   Is it ever okay to kill?
FistOfLegend
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posted January 07, 2009 08:25 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for FistOfLegend     Edit/Delete Message
People.

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MyVirgoMask
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posted January 07, 2009 08:47 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for MyVirgoMask     Edit/Delete Message
Heh.

I guess if someone really had it in their mind to do so, they'd be able to justify it no matter what.

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good girl
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posted January 07, 2009 08:54 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for good girl     Edit/Delete Message
Absolutely, I would do it if someone was trying to kill my children.I certainly would not sit idle and watch.

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Lara
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posted January 07, 2009 09:41 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lara     Edit/Delete Message
no, it's never okay to kill.

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Dervish
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posted January 07, 2009 09:45 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dervish     Edit/Delete Message
A mentor of mine had the chance to kill the guy breaking through her window in the dead of night, but just prayed instead (this was the 70s, btw, I don't think they had 911 yet), and trying to deny that this was happening. He not only savagely raped her, but left bite marks on her that had to be stitched up.

Turned out the guy was a serial rapist that knew how to foil arrests. And she'd later be called down to the police station after OTHER victims of his had been attacked as she'd been. Then she not only felt guilty for not killing him when he attacked (ie, blamed herself for her own trauma he inflicted on her, because she'd had the chance to kill him but didn't take it), but felt the guilt for all the other people who suffered for her pacifism.

This illustrates very well, IMO, why sometimes it's ok to kill. Heck, maybe it should even be obligatory, at least in a moral sense.

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MyVirgoMask
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posted January 07, 2009 09:53 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for MyVirgoMask     Edit/Delete Message
Dervish, pacifism is an interesting choice of words in this case...what a situation to be in...
Terrible what your friend had to go through...as well as all the others
Maybe, partially, self-forgiveness for what she didn't get to do was part of the experience?

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Lara
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posted January 07, 2009 10:03 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lara     Edit/Delete Message
I have 2 friends whom have had horrific experiences.

My girlfriend's drink was spiked at a club. She woke up in a hotel room, tied to a bed. The man raped her and burnt out his cigarettes on her body for FIVE DAYS until the maid walked in one day to change the sheets. He was never caught as he wasn't in the room at the time.

A male friend of mine (i don't know him anymore) had a gun stuck in the back of his head as he walked to his house. 3 men tied him to a chair, taped his entire head with gaffa tape and left one hole in a nostril for him to breath. They then beat the crap out of him for 8 hours, threw him down the stairs, smashed his head and shot his thighs. They left him thinking he was dead. He wasn't. He was close to death but somehow he managed to drag himself about 10 feet to the kitchen counter. With his hands tied behind his back he somehow pulled the phone off the side and it took him many attempts to dial police. By the time the police turned up the nostril that was left open was filled with drying blood. Had they been minutes later he would have been dead. He spent 8 weeks in hospital and was totally unrecognisable for the first month afterwards.

I still don't think it's right to kill.

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koiflower
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From: Australia
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posted January 07, 2009 10:12 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for koiflower     Edit/Delete Message
quote:
My girlfriend's drink was spiked at a club. She woke up in a hotel room, tied to a bed. The man raped her and burnt out his cigarettes on her body for FIVE DAYS until the maid walked in one day to change the sheets. He was never caught as he wasn't in the room at the time.

Her word against his. Not that it had anything to do with it being in his room, with rope he had bought and cigarettes of his preferred brand.

The poor woman. My heart goes out to her.

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Lara
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posted January 07, 2009 10:17 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lara     Edit/Delete Message
Yes, she's ok now thank god but she will never trust a man again. Who would? v sad.

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MyVirgoMask
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posted January 07, 2009 10:19 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for MyVirgoMask     Edit/Delete Message
Oh my god, Lara.
I'm really sorry to hear about the horrors your friends had to endure.
I hope they're better now on all levels.

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Lara
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posted January 07, 2009 10:21 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lara     Edit/Delete Message
They are thank you. People can be animals but one must remember that we don't have a right to decide when their life ends, even if they can decide our fate.

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MyVirgoMask
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posted January 07, 2009 10:25 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for MyVirgoMask     Edit/Delete Message
I agree

What about self-defense though? It just crossed my mind...

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Lara
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posted January 07, 2009 10:43 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lara     Edit/Delete Message
Yes, although self-defense can get you stabbed.

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PeaceAngel
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posted January 07, 2009 10:55 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for PeaceAngel     Edit/Delete Message
It's easy to theorise about the humanity, yada, yada, but you never know until you are in that situation. I can sit here and blab all I want about how wrong it is to kill someone and mean it wholeheartedly, but if someone were to try to rob me of my children or take my life, **** them - I'm going to fight with everyting I am and have, and kill if I have to. And I think anyone who says different is lying. No-one is going to sit there doing nothing while their life or the life of their loved one is in danger that way.

But to answer the question - no, it's never "okay" to kill. Do we have to for the sake of survival? Certainly. Not pretty, but that's how it is.

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PeaceAngel
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posted January 07, 2009 10:58 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for PeaceAngel     Edit/Delete Message
I remember my father telling me a story. My parents are much much older and lived during WWII and there was a situation where a group were hiding from the Germans and a baby was crying in the shelter. The mother smothered her own child so to avert the risk of everyone else being found and God knows what after that. If that doesn't break your heart..........

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Lara
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posted January 07, 2009 11:00 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lara     Edit/Delete Message
well i still think it's wrong PA, im sorry.

If someone killed one of my family (god forbid) l would have to forgive them. I'm above the murderer and i'm not about to become him and share his karma.

If someone gets murdered it's cos they have attracted their fate into their lives. It's a very spiritual view but it must be as such.

I would not sit back and watch but l would abide within the laws of the universe.

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LEXX
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posted January 07, 2009 11:01 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for LEXX     Edit/Delete Message
Self defense or protecting ones loved ones or an innocent person being attacked.
Also too often the attacker even if he/she gets a prison sentence, when they get out they go and find the person and kill them.
So right or wrong...if someone is going to die...let it be the attacker not the innocents.

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PeaceAngel
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posted January 07, 2009 11:03 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for PeaceAngel     Edit/Delete Message
Lara

I don't think it's right either. But we do what we have to do. You get one shot at this life, and with your loved ones. If someone is going to **** with me, I'm going to **** back, big time.

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LEXX
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posted January 07, 2009 11:05 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for LEXX     Edit/Delete Message
Self defense or protecting ones loved ones or an innocent person being attacked.
Also too often the attacker even if he/she gets a prison sentence, when they get out they go and find the person and kill them.
So right or wrong...if someone is going to die...let it be the attacker not the innocents.
As for Karma...
perhaps the innocent are to enact Karma on such a person. I do not feel they get Karma for defending themselves.

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LEXX
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posted January 07, 2009 11:09 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for LEXX     Edit/Delete Message
I shall pose a question to anyone against defending...up to killing to do so.
If a person was holding a weapon and was about to kill your baby or spouse...
and you had a gun....
would you stand there and let your loved ones be killed? Then stand there whilst the murderer shoots you too?

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PeaceAngel
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posted January 07, 2009 11:10 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for PeaceAngel     Edit/Delete Message
quote:
I would not sit back and watch but l would abide within the laws of the universe.

I don't believe for one second if someone has a gun to your child's head and there is something that you can do that you are going to be thinking about the laws of the universe in that particular moment. Every instinct as a human and as a mother is going to be screaming for you to act as you can. Given that you may be asking for Divine assistance in that time, but your mind will be on one thing only - survival.

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LEXX
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posted January 07, 2009 11:13 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for LEXX     Edit/Delete Message
PA

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MyVirgoMask
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posted January 07, 2009 11:14 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for MyVirgoMask     Edit/Delete Message
I'm not sure all of us really know 100% what would happen to our very minds if we were in a situation where we could kill for self defense/defense of our loved ones.
Some people might snap and kill.
Others might find they can't handle it and run.
Some might be paralyzed with fear.
Some might try to reason.
It's endless!
I know I'd definitely do something in self-defense or protection....and I would be scared of how far I'd go.

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Lara
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posted January 07, 2009 11:15 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lara     Edit/Delete Message
it's not about praying... and no l wouldn't stand back. I just wouldn't kill the other person.

You don't have to kill to get out of a situation!

and yes, l still don't believe in killing. It's a personal view so feel free to attack my view lol

I have faith in the Universe that l would never attract this situation anyway so it's not in my psyche to think "an eye for an eye"

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PeaceAngel
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posted January 07, 2009 11:19 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for PeaceAngel     Edit/Delete Message
Thanks Lexx.

I just really believe it's easy to theorise about these things, but you NEVER know what you are going to do or are capable of. Never say never. It's not ideal to take another human's life, but there are these exceptions. Anyway, the most ideal thing is that none of us ever encounter this predicament. And that's the truth.

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