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Author
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Topic: Is it ever okay to kill?
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MyVirgoMask
Knowflake Posts: 1537
From: processing destination......
Registered: Sep 2008
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posted January 09, 2009 12:24 PM
 
Good Girl, you're awesome 
I love you!!!
And I love you too, Lara  Sorry to intervene. IP: Logged |
praecipua
Knowflake Posts: 875
From: france
Registered: Aug 2007
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posted January 09, 2009 12:50 PM
phew, i almost missed this interesting topic. i meant reactions because the topic was just intended to create controversy. luckily knowflakes transform cr@p in gold.eleanore, i agree with you, staying on the side while someone is being killed for keeping good spiritual records is.... not right. it reminds me of something i read about buddha and boddisatva. i read it a while now, but it was about buddha being on a boat with 40 merchants i think -who were in fact boddhisatvas, people with good intentions then- and among them was one evil person that buddha had seen, being aware i guess, anyway, they were on the boat and at some point, buddha realised the evil caracter's plan, to kill the boddisatvas. guess what was the best course of action? yep, to kill the bad guy. i'll get the book, translate that part and edit this post tomorrow. IP: Logged |
Lara
Knowflake Posts: 4030
From: London
Registered: Mar 2006
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posted January 09, 2009 02:18 PM
quote:
but then you admit to taunting a cop to pull the trigger. Encouraging him to kill.You would be quilty of PRODUCING the kind of person you are against.
with all due respect you are totally misunderstanding me. PA said "you have to fight for your survival" and this is exactly what l did!!! Maybe you don't know what Jamaican police are like? Anyway, it's not taunting, it's playing a game of russian roulette to force them into a corner. Taunting would be going on and on about it. Saying it once isn't taunting!!!
Anyway, when you have someone with attitude you have to diffuse that attitude, don't you? Why l am now having to explain myself l have no idea! IP: Logged |
Lara
Knowflake Posts: 4030
From: London
Registered: Mar 2006
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posted January 09, 2009 02:22 PM
OK everyone,I am now leaving this thread cos ALL of you have completely misunderstood what l am saying!!!! I am NOT saying "stand on the sides and watch" geez, i'm a survivor not a wet dishcloth!!! I thought you guys knew that about me... I am saying "diffuse without DEATH". Take responsibility for your own safety by either learning a martial art or whatever, and then apply it in situations. do you honestly think that a black belt karate individual resorts to killing a man who attacks him? I'm happy to have the opposite point of view to you all but please don't then say things l never said! IP: Logged |
Lara
Knowflake Posts: 4030
From: London
Registered: Mar 2006
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posted January 09, 2009 02:35 PM
MVM 
Peace xIP: Logged |
good girl
Knowflake Posts: 678
From: ohio
Registered: Nov 2008
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posted January 09, 2009 07:27 PM
Thanks for the encouragement MVM, I appreciate it.IP: Logged |
LEXX
Moderator Posts: 2346
From: Still out looking for Schrödinger's cat.........& LEXIGRAMMING... is my Passion!
Registered: Jan 2008
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posted January 09, 2009 07:57 PM
MyVirgoMask
quote:
It's just seeing others in any danger that makes my blood boil a lot more.
Because despite what happened to me (which I won't get into), the thought of another's life
on the line makes me want to protect, protect, protect.At any cost.
I feel exactly the same.PeaceAngel quote:
Imagine a world where people, innocents if you like,
weren't prepared to fight for their own survival. It would consist only of murderers, etc.
Like it or not there are people prepared to do unjust things. If you don't stand up to them,
they win and learn that behaviour is okay because it gets them what they want with no consequence.
Does that make us any different to them? I think it's the intention that seperates us.
Very well said!good girl
Your blunt passionate honesty is refreshing!
I feel as you do. praecipua 
Good moral story! ------------------
Life is not about waiting for the storms to pass, it's about learning to dance in the rain. IP: Logged |
LEXX
Moderator Posts: 2346
From: Still out looking for Schrödinger's cat.........& LEXIGRAMMING... is my Passion!
Registered: Jan 2008
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posted January 09, 2009 07:58 PM
Lara  quote:
How the hell do you think I have been able to reach the view I have done in my post to Good Girl?
Not from reading books....
Sorry you are so upset but I still must be true to myself. I am not you.
As MyVirgoMask said: quote:
Lara, you're an idealist.
I sure wish it was that easy,
and no hard choices need taken in the heat of imminent death potential situations.
But it is never that simple. In some situations someone will die no matter your way or mine.
I hate violence and I am anti-war.
I rarely watch overly violent movies.
As to if my child murdered someone in cold blood....
My love for him would continue.
However if he was guilty, he must pay society for the crime.
I would not defend him.
As to the scene you painted of being in a kitchen of a friend and her son tries to kill mine right there and there...
well first off I would not be in the kitchen with a person with a son like that, nor friends with either one.
However if I were, I would try and stop the attacker even if it meant putting myself in harms way,
taking the bullet myself or whatever.
Yes I could die. But the attacker would be stopped hopefully.
And if my son cold blooded attacked a person at knifepoint....and was truly guilty...
well guilty is guilty.
If the other person lied....then I would try to prove it somehow.
Basically my son is even more peace minded than I am in many ways.
He rescues bugs and rodents rather than killing them when they get in his house.Again...so sorry to upset you. PS. War is not the same thing.
The military, religious, and government Pawns and Propaganda are at work and people who normally would not hate each other do because of lies their leaders tell and other complex issues too.
An entirely different thing from personal self defense in that big ugly picture. ------------------
Life is not about waiting for the storms to pass, it's about learning to dance in the rain. IP: Logged |
Lara
Knowflake Posts: 4030
From: London
Registered: Mar 2006
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posted January 10, 2009 06:27 AM
quote:
Imagine a world where people, innocents if you like,
weren't prepared to fight for their own survival
I hate to drop reality on your head but we do live in a western world where we don't fight for our own survival. We allow governments to walk all over us! Can you see a brit or a yank actually standing up for themselves? Which is why the USA can go for world domination at any cost!, whilst completely ruining the planet and being the cause of all these violent attacks and wars. BTW, i'm not upset at all! Wrong emotion. I'm passionate and whilst l can still see the bigger picture l will continue trying to drag you all up to it. It's what enlightened people do! Anyway, this is pointless because in the UK we don't believe in legalizing weapons and you guys in the USA legalize weapons so we are coming from totally different perspectives. The Brits and the Americans have opposing views because we are anti-killing and the american's are pro-killing.
HYPOTHETICALLY speaking, before l get bashed for being anti-american  IP: Logged |
PeaceAngel
Knowflake Posts: 7904
From: Australia
Registered: May 2008
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posted January 10, 2009 07:12 AM
quote:
I'm passionate and whilst l can still see the bigger picture l will continue trying to drag you all up to it. It's what enlightened people do!
An enlightened person doesn't need to tell everyone else how enligthened they are. It shines in all that they are and do. Once you start telling people how much better than them you are, you've voided your entire concept of yourself. A comment like that comes from the ego. There's nothing enlightened about it. IP: Logged |
MyVirgoMask
Knowflake Posts: 1537
From: processing destination......
Registered: Sep 2008
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posted January 10, 2009 07:39 AM
I don't think Brits are such pacifists  No offense to Brits (I have family from there!), but they've got blood on their own hands (a good deal of it)...just like most countries. Of course, the US isn't really any different from other countries as far as the blood it's got on its hands, it's just that so much of its history is based on genocide, and yet it's so stuck on the concept of images and *looking* like it knows what's best for everyone, even though it's extremely corrupt in its own way. And the country is also very, very young, and adolescent. Its attitude does reflect that to an extent. Anyway, off-topic from the thread here, but I just had to mention that IP: Logged |
PeaceAngel
Knowflake Posts: 7904
From: Australia
Registered: May 2008
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posted January 10, 2009 07:47 AM
bmI think you're right about Fist. I hope he gets a really good paper out of it! Love what you said about Hitler, btw. Brilliant. Love the way your mind works, the angle from which you come in and offer an opinion or thought. Very smart lady you are.  Very very smart. IP: Logged |
LEXX
Moderator Posts: 2346
From: Still out looking for Schrödinger's cat.........& LEXIGRAMMING... is my Passion!
Registered: Jan 2008
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posted January 10, 2009 12:03 PM
PA Lara.... quote:
the USA legalize weapons so we are coming from totally different perspectives.
[Please do not lump me in with the propaganda stereotyped view of Americans. I was against that and against all the war crap and did not vote for the war mongers. I was only born in this country and if I could would leave it. However to where? And it costs a lot of money to move to another country. quote:
The Brits and the Americans have opposing views because we are anti-killing and the american's are pro-killing.
So Tony Blair joining faux king bushie in war mongering activities is not for murder/war? Uh huh....
Again, please do not lump me in with what you were told is American. As to legalizing weapons....few Americans percentage wise own handguns. Some own guns for hunting. The BAD GUYS OWN ILLEGAL WEAPONS AND HAD THEM BEFORE LEGALIZATION...
I do not have any. quote:
HYPOTHETICALLY speaking, before l get bashed for being anti-american
America is screwed up....but I bet the UK is too....and many other countries. The governments all have their war mongers and abuse their citizens and scare them into apathy.
The movie V for Vendetta is probably closer to the truth of industrialized governments than most want to believe.
So bash American government not individual Americans all you want. I do. This country is a big mess.IP: Logged |
LEXX
Moderator Posts: 2346
From: Still out looking for Schrödinger's cat.........& LEXIGRAMMING... is my Passion!
Registered: Jan 2008
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posted January 10, 2009 12:07 PM
quote:
We allow governments to walk all over us!
And pray tell...exactly how can we stop it? They'd just wipe out major protesters or at least jail them. Many anti-Republican anti-Christian Majority people are scared or apathetic about the government and rightly so.IP: Logged |
LEXX
Moderator Posts: 2346
From: Still out looking for Schrödinger's cat.........& LEXIGRAMMING... is my Passion!
Registered: Jan 2008
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posted January 10, 2009 01:04 PM
An old thread concerning murder and so forth...which might be of interest to some. http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/Forum7/HTML/008660.html IP: Logged |
hippichick
Knowflake Posts: 2279
From: The Ether
Registered: Jan 2006
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posted January 10, 2009 05:14 PM
There is a reason I am armed, so me and mine are NOT killed.IP: Logged |
FistOfLegend
Knowflake Posts: 428
From:
Registered: Nov 2008
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posted January 10, 2009 05:32 PM
I asked the question after seeing a program on TV. This man beat his family for years, and for some reason, his wife couldn't leave. He was an alcoholic, and it was as if he picked his mood for the day out of a hat. He had an extremely violent temper, and it came absolutely out of nowhere.
His wife finally snapped one day and killed him. When police solved the crime, they had no sympathy for her. She was seen as some evil villain. "How could she do that to him? Boy she's cold."
She got thirty years in prison, and that was just an addition to all the pain she'd dealt with in her life.
Maybe there was a way to get out, but sometimes it's just not easy. What I don't understand, though, is how anyone can feel sorry for someone who abused his own family, then sit there and blame that woman. It doesn't make sense to me.
Killing is punishable, but abuse isn't. It doesn't make sense. IP: Logged |
LEXX
Moderator Posts: 2346
From: Still out looking for Schrödinger's cat.........& LEXIGRAMMING... is my Passion!
Registered: Jan 2008
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posted January 10, 2009 06:08 PM
FistOfLegend...
I know what you mean.
I knew of a shopkeeper whose son was robbed and killed in cold blood whilst closing the shop after hours.
The father hearing the shot went downstairs, (the shoppe was below their living space) and took his gun with him. (He had a gun because they had been robbed before and death threats scrawled on their building...and shouted at them...by people with known criminal records)
He found his son lying there without a face (shotgun blast) 
The creep was still there and tried to shoot the father but missed. The father shot the creep then.
Get this...
The father with a murdered son gets a 25 year prison sentence (he was in his late 60s) and the creep's family sued him for killing their "sweet baby".....a 17 year old murderer. And won.
Why? Because the court deemed the father's action as vengeance and premeditated, and the creep was a minor.
So added to his grief of a murdered son, was a long prison sentence and leaving behind his handicapped elderly wife...whom I heard had to go to a nursing home and died of shock and grief a short time later.
Things sure are f'd up. 
BTW...I know of many more such travesties of justice.IP: Logged |
Lara
Knowflake Posts: 4030
From: London
Registered: Mar 2006
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posted January 10, 2009 07:20 PM
PA"A comment like that comes from the ego" EGO only gets in the picture when there is personal gain... trust me, l don't have personal gain in mind. EGO and COLLECTIVE do not live side by side and it's COLLECTIVE process here! LEXX, my pro-/anti killing remark was linked to GUNS not war! omg Of course the UK is screwed up!, and V for Vendetta is pretty accurate actually.
I would only bash american governments cos l love American people. I bash my own Govt to the hilt Check this out ---> http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=RlcE-TmYPmQ The way to get above Government is LOVE not FEAR. If you live in fear of them it feeds their EGO and gives them POWER. If you live out of pure love they will all rot in hell.... eventually.
If the entire planet tomorrow replaced FEAR for LOVE the evil, greedy Govts would fall apart. Sounds stupid and like i've been smoking pot, i know... but it's true!!! IP: Logged |
FistOfLegend
Knowflake Posts: 428
From:
Registered: Nov 2008
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posted January 10, 2009 07:54 PM
"BTW- I know of much more such travesties of justice."Oh, so do I.
And when it comes to family, I don't care who it is. I can struggle with my sister day in and day out, but if someone lays a hand on her, I become like King Mufasa. I've got to protect her.
That's very important to me. I don't understand how people can take that for granted or even ruin their families. It's like burning down your house. Now what are you going to go home to?
IP: Logged |
FistOfLegend
Knowflake Posts: 428
From:
Registered: Nov 2008
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posted January 10, 2009 08:04 PM
Emotions kind of remind me of the movie 'Glory'. It's a movie about a group of men who grow together, fight together, and eventually use that training in war.
There's a special scene where all the soldiers gather around a campfire, singing praise to the lord and making small confessions. Even though some didn't like each other, and some had argued before, none of this mattered with the realization that they might die tomorrow. Though they had their differences, all felt the fear of going to war. In the end, their feelings were in unison.
Much of the same applies to circumstances of injustice. You can take a girl who barely stands up for herself, and a girl who barks like a dog, and wait and see when both are attacked. Both will want to live, and both will want to fight.
IP: Logged |
PeaceAngel
Knowflake Posts: 7904
From: Australia
Registered: May 2008
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posted January 10, 2009 08:20 PM
Lara quote:
EGO and COLLECTIVE do not live side by side and it's COLLECTIVE process here!
I believe I'm one of the collective and I know with certainty I don't want you speaking for me on my behalf. I'm capable of having my own input into the collective whole. Afterall, I'm an equal part, just like anyone else. If I need someone with a God-complex, I'll just turn to God. IP: Logged |
good girl
Knowflake Posts: 678
From: ohio
Registered: Nov 2008
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posted January 10, 2009 09:03 PM
quote:
You can't just condemn a man who rapes until you understand his background. Maybe he was incessantly raped as a child and he knows no better. It's called genetic behavior and it's a psychological pattern. The man needs help and very same society that biatches on him and accuses him of 'this and that' lets him down
I disagree. It is not the victims responsibility to understand the rapist. It is the rapist responsibility to understand himself and seek help The victim suffers from emotion/psychological/physical damage and is supposed to try to understand why this man did what he did? No. Not fair. Not all abuse victims turn around to abuse others. Being raped as a child does not give you a get" out of jail free card" if you choose to rape. I believe in personal responsibility. IP: Logged |
Lara
Knowflake Posts: 4030
From: London
Registered: Mar 2006
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posted January 10, 2009 09:51 PM
PAare you implying l have a God complex?
IP: Logged |
LEXX
Moderator Posts: 2346
From: Still out looking for Schrödinger's cat.........& LEXIGRAMMING... is my Passion!
Registered: Jan 2008
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posted January 10, 2009 09:56 PM
good girl!
Very well said!
I think folks abused as children are more likely to not be abusive, or not want to be abusive themselves.
I personally would never want a child to go through what I did.
I have known of too many abusive people who did not have horrible childhoods as far as anyone knows of.
IP: Logged |
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