posted April 19, 2004 09:50 PM              

Well, I just have to respond to some of this stuff, and I really do hope that I do it in the right way without causing offense to anyone else too.

lalalinda,

I am not sure exactly what you mean by some of the words in your post.

I may be wrong, but it seems to me like you might be saying that if a woman is happy and in love, then cheating is usually the furthest thing from her mind....

while even if a man has the same love and happiness, it just doesn't make him any less liable to cheat than a man without a relationship like that, since, according to you, men's reasons for cheating are more to do with 'their hunt' and not with them missing out on love and affection with their mates.

I am not so sure that's true though.

I mean, I get what you are saying about man's instincts for conquering in general, but from what I understand when I hear men describe their reasons for actually going through with 'a new conquer' by cheating with another woman, they claim that it really has very little to even do with sex etc.... for them anyway.

They seem to say that it actually really IS the more heartfelt ATTENTION and AFFECTION that they want from these new women, which they feel that their wives etc.... are not supplying them with anymore.

So, I beg to differ with you, but I think that while men may have certain instincts about women that simply can't be helped along the way, I don't believe that they will cheat JUST because they possess those instincts alone.

I think their cheating DOES have more to do with what they feel has gone missing from their relationship with their mates instead, you know.

Their cheating really happens because they ARE missing that emotional connection etc.... that they used to have with their mates once upon a time.

Again, I say this because of what I have read and heard from these cheating men in various places.

Also, no offense intended to you again, but I think you sort of gave Duality a stronger response than what might have really been necessary too.

I mean, she didn't even really say that she was like, 'morally against' any of those alternative circumstances for OTHER consenting people which you mention up above.

She just said that she had those same astro aspects and that she still knew that cheating and those other alternative lifestyles weren't for HER, even despite the influence of her aspects.

I thought your comments to her had a little bit of a defensive tone to them, as if you felt that she had intentionally put those sorts of lifestyles down just because she stated that she doesn't want to take part in them herself, and frankly, I just didn't really read any offense to anyone from her remarks that way.

And also personally, I think that there ARE some things that one can 'say NEVER about' if they so choose to, and I know that I AM also one who WILL NEVER cheat on someone behind their back, because I have background in that within my own family, and that has enabled me to make that statement as loudly as thunder right now.

And as for open relationships etc....

if I ran into someone who wanted an open marriage, for me personally it would be like, "Good Luck to you, and see you in the next life."

I am not in any way sitting in judgement of anyone else's sexual lifestyles such as the ones which you mention at all.

I am just stating my own personal intentions on the issues which you bring up.

I hope that everybody here understands that well enough.

If anybody wants to have an open marriage, then so be it, it's not my business so long as each member of that partnership is open and honest with each other about it.

But, I can categorically state that that lifestyle, is SO not for me personally though, and I AM already sure about that, and I don't believe that my aspirations for a happily 'closed marriage' will EVER change at all.

Ok, I hope that no one took any offense to me and my remarks at all either.

Love And Light To You ALL!

posted April 19, 2004 09:51 PM              

la-linda, I didn't get offended. What you're saying here is what socioligists have been saying since sociology had a name. I was mearly pointing out the obvious other side of the coin. Always like a pendulum swinging in this place, did you notice that?

I don't agree that all men are prone to cheating 24/7 ...except maybe the high -school or college boys, or horny pigs. I do think they're more prone to at certain turning points in their lives though, like around the time of milestone birthdays, or becoming fathers (the immature ones), or when their wives are constantly putting everything else before them (wives will cheat under these same circumstances too, mind you).

posted April 20, 2004 03:01 AM              

We Gems are so not what we are cracked up to be

posted April 21, 2004 01:30 PM            

LaLaLinda, in general, I agree with you. Men are *ahem* hardwired differently than women. The can completely separate sex from love.

And with all due respect to the lovely Knowflakes here whom I love dearly, it's obvious that we women do not generally see the difference between sex and love. Not the way men do.

And while I see that men are more inclined to infidelity, I also think that they will also continue to return to the women they love. Because...sex is not the same as love. Affection and sex can be mutually exclusive.

Now before anyone says "But how would you feel if someone cheated on you!" I've been in open relationships, I understand alternative lifestyles. I have a lot of love, my capacity to love is unlimited...and here is food for thought. If love is unconditional...well, isn't fidelity a condition?

Just some rhetorical questions,we all have our own beliefs and preferences.

posted April 21, 2004 02:56 PM            

"Women need a reason to have sex. Men just need a place." --Billy Crystal

posted April 21, 2004 03:22 PM              

Love that Billy Crystal quote.

posted April 21, 2004 04:03 PM            

"Hello, I hope you don't mind me being so forward, but you're just so beautiful. I'd love to take you to dinner, talk about you life, your hopes, your dreams. You look like the kind of woman I could really go for. Shall I pick you up at 7? What color roses do you prefer? Maybe we can end the night with a walk on the beach, a bottle of wine, and if it feels right, we'll make love. But there's no pressure..."

And if he were driving a Jaguar, it wouldn't hurt.

posted April 21, 2004 05:04 PM              

but, to me personally, I have to say that the whole point of being with someone in any sort of said romantic relationship is so that you can commit to growing with THEM through EVERY means, which obviously includes sex....

and not so you can try to grow with them through having any sexual interactions with any other people.

How seeking out other partners 'just for sex' even if there is no love involved in those exchanges with the third parties....

can serve the bond that is supposed to be growing between the TWO of you together is mysterious to me....

since it defeats the purpose of the supposed 'relationship' that is there between the couple in the first place.

Personally, I think that people who go in for open relationships are people who are just too afraid of the bond that happens when they commit to someone on all levels, because it makes a person very vulnerable when they make that commitment....

and so they have sex with those other people in order to 'keep a back door open' as an escape hatch to keep from feeling too vulnerable with their 'love partner.'

But, I certainly respect their decisions to have an 'open relationship' though.

I just feel badly that are missing out on the bond with another human being that I feel could occur for them if they opened themselves up to having a commitment on all levels within their relationship.

Oh well, just my thoughts about all of that.

Love And Light To Everyone Here!

posted April 21, 2004 05:04 PM              

Cuz as we all know, women can size up a "potential husband" within the first 3 seconds. And then we attach his last name to ours to see how it sounds on the first date.

posted April 21, 2004 09:05 PM            

As I said, I've been in an open relationship or two. I'm not afraid of any bond, how could you possibly know what's in my heart, or what I am capable of? That's a rhetorical question. Don't feel badly for me, or anyone else who makes a conscious choice, that's terribly condescending. For you have no idea what kinds of bonds we develop.
I know very well how to open my heart and let the happiness in.

I don't judge people for loving, or for sharing their bodies. I don't care who's lovin' whom, two men, two women, five men and six women, so long as they are consenting adults and doing what they want to do, I'm happy for them.

I always try to remind myself, when pointing a finger at someone, I always have three pointing back at me.

OK, found another priceless quote:

"Women might be able to fake the Big O., but men have been known to fake entire relationships." ---Sharon Stone.

posted April 21, 2004 11:13 PM              

I am sorry that you two possibly sound a little offended by what I wrote, and that you think that I was being condescending to you or to anyone else by whatever I said, but I do still stand by my own beliefs about this question.

If not out of fear, then I cannot think of any other reason that someone would hold back on making a full commitment to another person in that way.

I am sorry if I am missing some point that you feel you or anyone else has found in your own open relationships yourselves though.

I wasn't pointing fingers at anyone, or judging you or anyone else on any moral 'right or wrong' level at all, as I stated in my post up above more than once.

As I said, I personally just think it is sort of sad that some people can't make a full commitment in every way, BODY and Soul, and I do think that I have a right to say that here, as it is only my opinion to speak on the matter, and this is a public message board after all.

I know what you're going to say about my commitment statement anyway though.

You are going to say that only the two people involved decide what is a commitment to them, and what is not a commitment to them, and I get your point, and I know they have their own reasons for not commiting with their bodies, and whatever....

But, still, personally, how any open relationship could increase the intimacy of the bond between the two main people in any relationship is sort of non-sensical to me.

And no, I don't need to justify my own choice about it at all.

I am very happy with knowing that I am capable of making a full commitment in every way in my life when the time is right for me to do that.

I'm not an ASS, lol, I am just a very committed person.

I believe in building deep bonds with my partner in every way, which definitely includes building them with my body, and with my heart, and with my Soul, etc....

I guess I just look at an open relationship and see two people who are, in some sort of way, either too scared or too lazy to make the commitment to say to each other....

"If we get bored with our sex lives, we will search within ourselves and go down deeper to the next level to make it more interesting for us when we are together, because we have made a true, honest commitment to one another to do that.

We love each other, and because of that we have vowed to face everything together, which means making a vow to make it work through any difficulty with one another, and that includes sexual difficulties.

From our relationship, I want the intimacy and closeness that only comes from it when we join together as a united team, and I am brave enough to say that I am ready to dedicate myself to you, and to you alone, in this life, and I am ready to do anything to make that work between us."

I don't know, perhaps people that seek open relationships just don't desire the same level of intimacy and closeness that I do from my relationship.

Again, I just can't see how 2 people can build a true team effort together with intimacy and closeness as their goal when their team, let's say, 'extends' to a team numbering 3 or 4 or 5 or 6 etc....

But, if anyone here wants to enlighten me as to what the satisfactions are that they receive from an open relationship, then please feel free to enlighten me about them.

I am sure that it won't change my mind, but I have always been curious as to what satisfaction someone would get from a relationship like that one.

Sorry if I offend anyone, but I just don't see anything wrong with speaking my opinion about things, since I don't see where I am pointing fingers at anyone in any personal way through these posts at all.

Love And Light!

posted April 22, 2004 01:14 AM            

My own opinion on this open relationship issue, or sex as a one night stand.. with no meaning...?

I have a body. Mid-day, sometimes I get the urge to use my body in a sexual/sensual/sharing way.. with another human being. I have cravings and urges and responses. On the physical level, not necessarily the emotional level.
I can be very attracted to someone, but know he isn't 'my type' and I just know it won't "go anywhere".. But sometimes, the only place I want to go is the bedroom... scratch an itch and make the room shake. I am 'connecting'.... but I don't want it to lead anywhere but fun... mutually satisfactory fun. I make that choice. I make that connection. I have had major love, minor love, deep connections, sweet connections, distant love, I have had all sorts of relationships and all kinds of connections. Each sacred in their own way. I have felt the depths of despair only loving truly and completely can bring, when it's over. I have had soul connections and all different levels of love. Loving and respecting isn't exclusive to one-on-one relationships. I love and respect my friends, without taking away any of it, while dispersing it through a few of them. As long as both partners are aware, you need not take from one, to give to the other. hearts know no bounds. After all, if exclusivity were the only way, or the only "right/deep" way, then the phrase "open relationship" wouldn't exist to discuss.

posted April 22, 2004 02:07 AM              

and lioneye, ha ha ha....

quote:

---

You look like you would have some very fine eggs, and I would be honored to fertilize them for you. Maybe not tonight...we can just practice at first, if you like.

---

posted April 22, 2004 03:50 AM              

Yes, I see the difference between sex and love that you're talking about, and I see the point of having 'just sex' as you describe it when I am not in an exclusive relationship with someone else, and I see the point of having it if that sort of casual encounter is what I happen to go in for in my life.

But, I do believe that it's impossible for me to keep from DILUTING my bond with my mate if I continue to pursue that kind of 'but for the physical thrill of it only sex,' when I am supposedly within a commitment with someone else though.

I mean, to me personally, intimate relationships are NOT like friendships as you want to try to compare them with.

I can hug lots of my friends, I can kiss lots of my friends, I can feel the same way about lots of my friends, I can share the same sort of bond with lots of my friends, but....

when it comes to sharing an extremely close, intimate bond with someone else like I am talking about here, at least one that is based on MORE than just sex for sex's sake, lol....

then I feel that the level of commitment that I need to put into that is much higher than the one that I need to put into a bond based on only mere friendship.

No offense intended, but I simply can't see where you can compare a friendship you might have with the relationship you have with your mate.

They are two totally different dynamics within their essence as far as I can tell.

To me, personally, the intimacy and the closeness that I expect from a friendship is not at all near the same level of the sort which I expect from my relationship with my significant other, since one relationship serves one purpose, and one relationship serves another purpose for me.

And I, personally, just cannot see any way where someone can try to tell themselves that it doesn't change anything between themselves and their mate if they decide to put their hands on another person's body, or when they exchange this and exchange that with another person, etc....

It doesn't matter even if it is 'just sex' or whatever when they do it, because although they may not be relating with that third party in an EMOTIONALLY intimate or close way at all....

they are STILL, relating in a PHYSICALLY intimate and close way, as you so well described it yourself up above.

And, I just feel that the whole point of a romantic relationship FOR ME, NOT a friendship here, but a romantic relationship FOR ME....

is for me to be with another person so that we can EXCLUSIVELY explore ALL levels of human communion, including for us to indeed EXCLUSIVELY explore that PHYSICAL level, as a PAIR with ONLY one another instead.

I believe that when we make that choice to exclude that other outlet of 'just sex' from our lives....

that the bond between me and my mate can only grow deeper and deeper, since every ounce of our physical / sexual energy is now being focused and centered on each other as a couple alone now.

And more exclusivity between us leads to more imtimacy between us....

which leads to more closeness between us....

which leads to more growth between us....

which leads to more happiness between us etc....

All of those results directly up above that I list here really just follow my initial choices to be exclusive with my mate.

My relationship is not being DILUTED by those other 'just sex' encounters anymore, so naturally, I am going to get a lot more out of it now, which will probably lead to better and better sex between me and my partner anyway, hence eliminating the need for the other encounters too.

Now, how going out and 'scratching an itch' in the middle of the afternoon with whomever turns me on at that particular moment would build and strengthen my communion with ANOTHER person that I claim to love, is still totally beyond me.

For me, the bottom line is that sure, if I want to separate sex and love and go get my jollies from 'just sex' when I'm not in a relationship with someone that I claim to love, then I should have at it.

But, when I'm with someone that I say that I love, and when I am with someone that I feel I want to be with for the rest of my life in what is supposed to be a committed relationship, then how on Earth is it going to serve the two of us for any / both of us to be having flings with other people?

Personally, I think what you said sort of proved my point again about it really being laziness, or most likely, immaturity as well....

which leads to these open arrangements, since of course, when I have an 'itch' just how easy would it be to let myself go and 'scratch' it with someone that I just pick up with to get the job done, instead of going to my real partner and saying....

"Honey, I love you, but we do need to spice up our sex life. Let's try this or try that, or let's bond in a new raw way through this sort of activity, and see where that leads to for us from now on ...."

because personally, I do feel that I can have all levels of the different types of sex which you mention with ONE person if I really try to make the effort and commitment, ( there's that word again, lol ) to achieve that goal with my mate.

I guess I am just saying that I feel that keeping a relationship 'closed' between the two of us is really the more mature way for us to build a relationship together....

AND also, and this is the most important thing too....

I feel that it's really the ONLY way for me to go deeper and deeper into more and more levels of love AND passion with my partner....

and therefore I feel it's the only way for me to gain more and more insights about love, life and myself and my mate through our ever growing bond with each other.

It just takes a little more work and....

what else, but....

commitment....

from the both of us to allow it to happen!

Lol

But I do believe that I will get MORE out of it, because I will be putting MORE into it, of course, just like with any other worthwhile enterprise as well.

By the way, I wasn't trying to be disrespectful to anyone's choice of lifestyle by what I said anywhere.

By making all of these points, I am just trying to put across why I feel that people who are settling for only having an open relationship, and not demanding an exclusive one from themselves, are missing out on some serious bonding with their partner which would lead to more spiritual growth for them within their own lives.

It's not about the sex being emotional vs. physical with one person from another person....

it's about the fact that without that exclusivity between you and your partner, including that exclusivity on the physical level, I think it's just sort of impossible to keep going forward and growing within a relationship, because the bond between you and your partner is going to be diffused and lessened by the less than total focus you are showing to each other, and sadly....

that's just how I see it.

You just have to ignore me sometimes, you know.

I write essays just for fun, so I really enjoy expressing my personal views whenever I can.

But, I do understand that other people certainly aren't always interested in sharing the same type of bond with another person that I seem to be interested in sharing with someone.

Love And Light To You All, And To All A Goodnight!

Lol

posted April 22, 2004 09:28 AM            

quote:

---

Personally, I think what you said sort of proved my point again about it really being laziness, or most likely, immaturity as well....

---

posted April 22, 2004 09:29 AM            

Here's another great quote...
"Judge not, lest ye be judged." --God/dess

'Cause we're one but we're not the same, we get to carry each other... --Bono.