posted November 03, 2004 01:38 PM            

Greetings. About Jesus on donkey. You have to bear one thing in mind. When Jesus was entering Jerusalem, the people were wondering how the Messiah looked like.

He didn't wanted to project that he is the Warrior type. The jews believed the Messiah that is going to come would deliver them from their enemies.

Yeshu would have purposely chosen to ride the donkey. After all he wasn't only for the jews, but for all people, who chose peace than war.

Also notice, he carried palm leaf, rather than a sword. Which gives meaning to the story.

The donkey had nothing to do with Materialism. I myself believe that abundance is good only if its shared. Although, I personally prefer to have sufficient.

PEACE.

posted November 03, 2004 02:02 PM            

I repeat. There is no holiness in wealth. There is no holiness in poverty.

GOODNESS AND LOVE ARE YOUR ONLY TRUE WEALTH.

HOW WE SOW TRULY DETERMINES WHAT WE REAP. ALWAYS.

A man who is lazy and waits on others to feed him although he is able handed, is just plain lazy and dependent.

A rich man who consumed by money and is well able to help others in need and does not, is
just plain greedy. I truly believe that we are not the atom but the whole. That we can use anything material in love to uplift our fellow human beings and doing so helps us all. I guess what I'm trying to say and doing such a poor job of it, is that things are all valueless in themselves. We give them value and purpose. It's like the philosophers stone, it's in the transmutation.

It is true that Jeshua rode a donkey and there was very good reason why it had to be so. It was in order to make sure that the prophecy was acted out exactly.

"All the Father has is yours and mine. Hath he not also given you the key?"

"Render unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's, and unto God the things that are Gods."

The names of Christ are indeed numerous, people called him by his Hebrew name, Aramaic name, Greek name, and the English translation of Jesus. The Anointed. The Holy. The God Man. The Immortal. He is all of those things and more, but to me he is, and will always be, my beloved Jeshua.

When reading the Bible I have said before, it is a translation from Aramaic to Greek, then English. Any fluent Greek speaker, not just myself will point out certain translations that slightly irregular in context.

The words such as 'poor' and 'meek' do not necessarily always mean either in Aramaic or in Greek what we suppose them to mean in English context. Meek denotes humility, poor denotes somebody who is deprived spiritually, it may have nothing to do with material wealth at all. Again I will post my notes as time allows.

As for enlightenment? When I stood by my beloved master, I knew that sadly my own enlightenment reached barely above the level of his big toe! *laughing* My master asked, " Why are you so sad? When I told him that I felt so unenlightened he smiled and replied, "How can you be so serious when you know you are a child of God?" I struggle to remind myself that my heart always comes first. I can only tell you this although I may not be enlightened. I have been blessed a million fold. I have been blessed beyond measure. I know we can all be blessed beyond measure. All that I am and all that I have, is due to his grace. I could not have achieved it without him. I try to bless as I've been blessed and to share as much as I can. I plod on daily. Do with that information as you will.

Gia

posted November 03, 2004 02:23 PM            

The closest I found regarding the prophecy you mentioned is Zephaniah 3:16

But it says nothing about the donkey.

quote:

---

14. Shout for joy, O daughter Zion! sing joyfully, O Israel! Be glad and exult with all your heart, O daughter Jerusalem!
15. The LORD has removed the judgment against you, he has turned away your enemies; The King of Israel, the LORD, is in your midst, you have no further misfortune to fear.
16. On that day, it shall be said to Jerusalem: Fear not, O Zion, be not discouraged!
17. The LORD, your God, is in your midst, a mighty savior; He will rejoice over you with gladness, and renew you in his love, He will sing joyfully because of you,
18. as one sings at festivals. I will remove disaster from among you, so that none may recount your disgrace.

---

posted November 03, 2004 02:33 PM              

If I may, I would like to thank you again for another valuable insight. Reading you words was a peek into the mirror.

All of the definitive statements you've made about what God wants and who Jesus was, and what his mission was, and what the nature of our existence here on Earth is, have reflected how TRULY PRESUMPTUOUS I HAVE BEEN in the past.

How DARE I claim to know what God wants, and what Jesus came to do and what his message was? How foolish I have been!

If I had seen then what I see now, I would have never posted the things I did.

Even though most of those posts have been removed, still, I wonder how many have been further confused by my insistence on stating my presumptions as though they were facts written in stone? I can only hope that my foolishness will be forgiven.

Thank you Gia. Your presence in this thread has proven to be a blessing time and again.

Love,

posted November 03, 2004 02:51 PM            

I can only say it as it is. I am sorry if I offended anyone. I told you before, I plod along just as we all do. I feel a kindred spirit in you Daf and I admire your work more than you can ever know. I am also aware the the profound experience you had.

posted November 03, 2004 03:01 PM            

I don't think people in Lindaland would be so blind as to take things literally. Theres always a disclaimer to all things.

And as always Dean put it nicely: "We all try to learn from what we try to teach"

Peace.

posted November 03, 2004 06:00 PM            

Seeing him arrive on the donkey the prohesy which says, "Tell the daughter of Zion, here is your king, who comes to you in gentleness riding on an ass, riding on the foal of the beast of burden." Please do read Mathew 21.4 It is there it will be found.

posted November 03, 2004 06:07 PM              

You said this to me:

quote:

---

I for one do not believe money is inherently evil. But it seems the love of money most certainly is the root of much evil and hypocrisy.

---

I feel the same way. I'm not sure why you directed that towards me.

There is nothing wrong with wanting more money. I feel as long as you use it to help others and yourself you are doing okay. There is a poverty consiousness going on now, where people think that to want more money is somehow bad and non-spiritual. Money is just another form of energy. You can use the energy for good or greed. It's up to you. It is a just another vehicle to make your life easier. God wants us to have every good thing and wants us to be happy. If money can help you do this, that's great. If you hoard it and dont share it with others, you are not using the energy of it wisely. To me it's just another "thing". I give it freely, even though I barely have any. I have to learn to recognize people who just 'take, take, take', and not let them drain me. Either way, what goes aroung comes around. I'm not some money hungry person. But I truly believe God wants us to have every good thing on this earth. It is a fact that money can enable you to help others here on earth. One's life should not revolve around getting more of it (and mine doesnt), but in this day and age it's hard to get by without it. Why not make peace with it? See the goodness in it, and use it to help your fellow man.

I have trust that God will always provide. I have complete faith in Him and his ways. I give freely and dont worry about lack. He loves me and will always provide me with anything I need. I live in an abundant universe and deserve every good thing in it. I will always be provided with what is best for me. I am never lacking. When you really KNOW this, your life is joyful. (I still have to remind myself of it, from time to time )

You keep bringing up the Rolls Royce thing. I dont think you read the link I provided about it. Osho is trying to teach joy. Interestingly, it's a hard one to grasp.

"There is no Christianity in the world; it is only "crossianity." The cross made a great impact, aroused sympathy towards him, just as my Roll Royces and my watches arouse in you jealousy, my clothes create jealousy. But if I was hanging on a cross, then this clergyman would have been at my feet praying to God. It is strange but true, that you are sympathetic to misery, to poverty, to sickness, to death. Have you ever thought what it means? You are never sympathetic with somebody who is blissful, happy, joyous, dancing, singing, has no worry at all, no tension. Have you felt any sympathy with that man? Have you gone to that man and said, "I have great sympathy for you"? You would look foolish. He does not need your sympathy in the first place. In the second place, his being in a blissful state creates jealousy in you, not sympathy. The crucifixion of Jesus created great sympathy, and out of that sympathy was born this whole "
http://www.otoons.com/osho/roll_royce.html

posted November 03, 2004 06:14 PM            

But thats not a conclusive proof. If you read, Matthew 28:15 about resurrection, it says "....And this story has circulated among the Jews to the present (day)."

Now if Matthew lived during time of Jesus, how many days would have passed that he had to write this.

Yeowww...life is full of contradiction. Why isn't things as accurate and well defined as a computer software program

posted November 03, 2004 06:25 PM            

"The Lord said to Moses, send men to scout the land of Caanan, which I am giving to the Israelites. Send one man from each tribe, all of them princes. So Moses sent them from the desert of Paran as the Lord had ordered. All were leaders among the Israelites. By name they were ... Shammua, Shaphat, Caleb, Igal, Gaddiel, Gaddi, Hoshea, Palti, Ammiel, Sethur, Nahbi, and Geuel (this quote leaves out the father & tribe names). These are the names of the men who Moses sent out to scout the land. But Ho-shea, son of Nun, Moses called Yeho-shua" (Num 13:1-16).

As you can see, Hebrew names always had a meaning and a history in the Old Testament. The early Christians pointed to Mose's authority to "make up names" when titles and names were given to Jesus or when Jesus "made up names" for his twelve disciples (Mk 3:13-19). The genius of the Greek names of Christianity was in their hidden meaning ... all the major names and titles of Jesus and his disciples were related in some way or another to the isopsephia value of Jesus.

By the 5th Century BC the name YEHOSHUA was shortened to YESHUA (see Neh. 8:17). By the 1st century AD, probably due to Greek influence, the name YESHUA was shortened twice more ... first to Y'SHUA, and then again to Y'SHU. The Y'shu form seems be a deliberate attempt by orthodox Jews of that time to express their displeasure to the name of Jesus, the recently arrived Greek Christian God who was trying to seduce Jews away from their religion.

The Greek name Ihsous
When the Greeks wanted to turn a Hebrew name into a Greek name there were two ways to bring it across the language barrier. One way was by translation, which tries to capture the meaning of a word ... but in the process, loses it's sound. The other way was by transliteration, which tries to capture the sound of the Hebrew word ... but in the process, loses it's meaning.

Let's look at the most probable scenario of how the four Hebrew letters in the name Y'-Sh-U-A (Yod-Shin-Vav-Ayin) were transliterated to Koine Greek.

The first Hebrew letter YOD has a “YE” sound. Unfortunately, the Greek language does not have a letter nor a diphthong that has the "Y" sound as in YES! The Greek solution was to pair the two letters IOTA-ETA to produce the sound “EE-AY” which was deemed to be close enough to the Hebrew sound "YE."
The second Hebrew letter SHIN has the "SH" sound. This was an even bigger problem because the "SH" sound does not exist in Greek. The Greek solution was to employ the "S" sound made by the letter SIGMA.
The third Hebrew letter Vav has a "U" sound. The Greek diphthong "ou" OMICRON-UPSILON is an exact match because it has the same "OO" sound.
The fourth Hebrew letter AYIN has the "AH" sound. According to the Greek rules of grammar, masculine names never end in a vowel sound, and when they do, the name should always be closed with the letter "S" whenever possible. The Greek solution was to drop the final "AH" sound and close out the name with an "S."
These four steps produce the name “Iesous” (IhsouV) which is pronounced "EE-AY-SOOS." The name Jesus now has an isopsehia value of "888" units which conjured up the "888" power structure of the whole Greek alphabet.
Joshua is mentioned two times in the New Testament (Acts 7:45; Heb 4:8), and in both places the Greek text spells his name "IhsouV" ... the same as Jesus. The original Hebrew translation of the name of Yeho (Yahweh) - shua (saves) is alluded to in the following gospel passage where an angel of the Lord tells Joseph what to name his future son: "you are to name him Iesous because he will save his people from their sins" (Matt 1:21). This passage shows that Matthew knew the etymology of the name Jesus. Matthew knew that the first two vowel sounds (ee-ay) in the name of Jesus were meant to be a transliteration of the vowel sounds in the name Yahweh, the almighty monotheistic God of the Hebrews. The last syllable in the name of Jesus (eeay-soos) was immediately recognized by the Greeks for it's similarity to the name Zeus (dzoos), the most powerful God in the polytheistic Greek pantheon. The gospel of John echoed that knowledge by having Jesus say "I come in the name of my Father" (John 5:43). The name Jesus (Ihsous) now oozed with supernatural power because his name said "Yahweh-Zeus."

The Latin name Iesus
The entire New Testament was written in “Koiné” or common Greek, but as the gospel spread into areas where Greek was not spoken, missionaries made translations in other languages such as Coptic, Slavic, and Latin. By the end of the second century many different Latin versions were in circulation. In 382 Jerome translated a standardized Latin Bible called the “Vulgate,” or common Bible. The Latin Bible transliterated the Greek name of Jesus by bringing across all of the Greek sounds in his name. His name was written as "IESUS." The Latin spelling differed from the Greek because the two alphabets are not identical. The Latin pronunciation however was still identical to the Greek "ee-ay-soos." Theodosus made Christianity the official religion of the Roman empire in 391. Jerome's Latin Vulgate soon became the undeclared “official” text of the Roman Church. The Council of Toulouse in 1229 made the Latin Bible official by "expressly forbidding it's translation into vulgar tongues." In 1234 the Council of Tarragona declared: "No person except a cleric may possess the books of the Old and New Testaments and if anyone is found to possess them he must be turned over to the local bishop so that he may be burned at the stake" The Latin spelling and pronunciation of Iesus dominated the Western Christian world for almost 1,000 years.

The English name Jesus
The Norman invasion of 1066 introduced the letter "j" to England but the sound of the letter did not exist in the Old English language until the early 1200's. Over the next 300 years the hard "J" sound started to replace male names that began with I or Y because it sounded so masculine. Names like Iames became "James," Iakob became Jacob, and Yohan became "John." During the time the letter J was starting to gain acceptance, John Wycliffe became the first person to translate the New Testament from Latin into English in 1384. He preserved the Latin spelling and pronunciation of IESUS but his translation was unread by the common man because only a few hand-written copies of his Bible were produced which were quickly banned by the Church.

When Gutenburg invented the printing press the Latin Vulgate Bible became the first book ever printed in 1455. The first printed bible in a foreign tongue was the German Mentel Bible of 1466 followed by the Martin Luther bible of 1522.

After William Tyndale was denied permission to print an English bible he went to visit Martin Luther and completed his translation of the New Testament in 1525. Tyndale had 18,000 copies printed at Worms and smuggled into England of which only two copies survive. After printing his revised edition of 1534 he was captured in Belgium, tried for heresy by order of the pope, and put to death in 1536 by strangulation after which his body was burned at the stake.

By the year 1611 the letter "J" was officially part of the English languge and the King James Bible was printed along with pronunciation guides for all proper names like Jesus, Jew, Jeremiah, Jerusalem, Judah, and John. The name "Jesus" has been in use ever since.

This is taken from my old religious study notes. I can post more of them should you find it interesting. I have always liked the fact that Krishna was also called Khrista or Khristo which also sounds so like the Greek Christo.

So with that I'll leave you all wishing you as we say in Greek. Christos Mas-is-sas.

Christ be with you.

Gia

posted November 03, 2004 07:20 PM            

I am familiar with the verse you mentioned but I'm not understanding the confusion. Do you mean to say the acceptance of Christ by some of the Jewish people as a true Messiah was denied? I'm not clear which part you find confusing and why. It is obvious the priests who had condemmed him as a false Messiah did not believe that he had risen from the dead, nor that he was truly the Messiah. Even today we have Jews for Christ and Jews who are not.

However you are right about contradictions and there are many. However each historian writes a slightly different account. If you look at the lost books of the Bible and by that I refer to most of the ecclestical writings of early Christian authorities known to exist and yet not included in the New Testament. In those you will find some amazing information.

The Bible you must understand is not complete. There are writings of great antiquity that were omitted.

One of the most informative to me as a half Greek person is the General Epistle Of Barnabas. You probably know Barnabas was a companion and fellow preacher with Paul.

The Letters of Herod and Pilate are also fascinating, these originals now reside in the British Museum.

The Secrets of Enoch I think is a must read for all mystics. The knowledge that this book even exsisted was hidden for over 1200 years. It talks about creation, astronomy, the ages of the world, the heavens, time, eternity, numerology and so forth.

Also the 1st and 2nd books of Adam and Eve are informative.

There is much information should you care to look for it. I should perhaps warn you in advance though, that although many contradictions from the Bible may be explained, you may pick up quite a few new ones on the way. I'm still struggling with a few of those myself. *laughing*

Happy hunting!

Gia

posted November 03, 2004 08:34 PM              

26
You say you agreed with the statement that the love of money is the root of evil. And then immediatly follow it up by saying, "there is nothing wrong with wanting more money". Consequently, I am now dizzy.

"God wants us to have every good thing". Agreed. But money is far from tops on my list of "good things". Yes, I do keep bringing up the Rolls Royce issue. And I do so because I have yet to find a satisfactory answer regarding it. Yes, I have read the link. Twice. In fact, that is the other reason I keep bringing it up. I found Mr Osho's excuse poor and transparent in the extreme and I was hoping for a better one from you.

Peace to you as well sister

Greetings Gia

phew! That's quite a bit of info.
Years ago I was very enamored of that sort of thing too. And so yes, I have run across many of the things which you state. I have the sort of mind that enjoys it. Hunting down the "hidden" meaning, the esoteric tradition, the original translation, the Great Secret - ah I adore the Hunt! At some point I decided that I had completely and utterly missed the point. In short, I'd been had. I decided that the Hunt is not outside, the hunt is inside. There lies the Truth. The Word of God is written in the Hearts of men. I've no doubt that you share this particular tasty morsel of Knowledge, this Great Secret.

posted November 03, 2004 08:54 PM              

**********

Mt 21:1 And when they drew nigh unto Jerusalem, and were come to Bethphage, unto the mount of Olives, then sent Jesus two disciples,
Mt 21:2 Saying unto them, Go into the village over against you, and straightway ye shall find an ass tied, and a colt with her: loose them, and bring them unto me.
Mt 21:3 And if any man say ought unto you, ye shall say, The Lord hath need of them; and straightway he will send them.
Mt 21:4 All this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying,
Mt 21:5 Tell ye the daughter of Sion, Behold, thy King cometh unto thee, meek, and sitting upon an ass, and a colt the foal of an ass.
Mt 21:6 And the disciples went, and did as Jesus commanded them,
Mt 21:7 And brought the ass, and the colt, and put on them their clothes, and they set him thereon.

Mr 11:1 And when they came nigh to Jerusalem, unto Bethphage and Bethany, at the mount of Olives, he sendeth forth two of his disciples,
Mr 11:2 And saith unto them, Go your way into the village over against you: and as soon as ye be entered into it, ye shall find a colt tied, whereon never man sat; loose him, and bring him.
Mr 11:3 And if any man say unto you, Why do ye this? say ye that the Lord hath need of him; and straightway he will send him hither.
Mr 11:4 And they went their way, and found the colt tied by the door without in a place where two ways met; and they loose him.
Mr 11:5 And certain of them that stood there said unto them, What do ye, loosing the colt?
Mr 11:6 And they said unto them even as Jesus had commanded: and they let them go.
Mr 11:7 And they brought the colt to Jesus, and cast their garments on him; and he sat upon him.

Lu 19:29 And it came to pass, when he was come nigh to Bethphage and Bethany, at the mount called the mount of Olives, he sent two of his disciples,
Lu 19:30 Saying, Go ye into the village over against you; in the which at your entering ye shall find a colt tied, whereon yet never man sat: loose him, and bring him hither.
Lu 19:31 And if any man ask you, Why do ye loose him? thus shall ye say unto him, Because the Lord hath need of him.
Lu 19:32 And they that were sent went their way, and found even as he had said unto them.
Lu 19:33 And as they were loosing the colt, the owners thereof said unto them, Why loose ye the colt?
Lu 19:34 And they said, The Lord hath need of him.
Lu 19:35 And they brought him to Jesus: and they cast their garments upon the colt, and they set Jesus thereon.

Joh 12:14 And Jesus, when he had found a young ass, sat thereon; as it is written,
Joh 12:15 Fear not, daughter of Sion: behold, thy King cometh, sitting on an ass's colt

posted November 03, 2004 09:46 PM            

PS I also agree with Gia in regards to the other holy works ommitted from the Bible, they are truly worth looking into. Yet I also agree with Tink that the "hunt" is on the inside for everone. Perhaps the hunt on the outside leads to the hunt on the inside as the clues you physically find reinforce what is in your heart and mind already.

posted November 03, 2004 09:53 PM            

First of all thank you for the history of the name of Yeshua. If the name "Jesus Christ" in english indeed has good vibration and the English language, is indeed a blessed language, All may be well.

Your energy is manifested in the words you typed and I can feel it. Thanks a ton for sharing with us your wisdom.

The words I was confused about was "to this day"... Did Matthew lived that long after the resurrection, to talk about the story circulated about the resurrection.
This verse makes me believe the Gospel was tampered. The book of Moses (First 5 books) was not written by Moses. Well you know what I mean.

Heh, where do I find the book of Enoch? I always wanted to get my hands on it.

Could you also confirm with your version of Gospel about the story of Zacchaeus. Does he say " I shall give half to the poor...." . The keyword here is shall. Or does he say .."I have given".

One is future the other is past. The catholics currently maintain that its future. When I questioned they said the catechism 2 years ago referred it to be in past. Such small changes make such huge difference doesn't it?

By the way I am fascinated by Krishna too. He is the lotus eyed God, who protects Draupadi from becoming naked in the court of Kings (including all male in laws, BIL, FIL,etc..)

posted November 03, 2004 10:03 PM            

Thanks for the "Zechariah 9:9"

Bulls eye.

About your other question about the Donkey
s find:
I can only speculate.

Also during passover dinner Jesus asks his disciples to follow the man carrying a pitcher into a house? How is all the messages communicated? They certainly didn't have wireless those days

Incidentally the last supper is only described in the Gospel of Luke, just as the story of Zacchaeus. Luke wasn't there when Jesus lived.

posted November 03, 2004 10:24 PM              

Love,

posted November 03, 2004 11:25 PM            

Yeshu means law giver chosen by God, if I am not mistaken. The God is without form. He may have chosen Yeshua, Krishna, Shanjyamuni etc for this.

Christ - means Knowledge. Does the word Christ that we have used in the context so far in history, make any sense then? When did this word come in to existence?

When did the words change its meaning?

[SORRY FOR MY IGNORANCE, IF I MAY OFFEND YOU, BUT I HAD TO ASK THIS TO SOMEONE WHO HAS ORIGINS IN THE BIBLICAL AREA AND
HAD STUDIED WELL. CAN I EMAIL YOU IF YOU THINK THESE DISCUSSIONS DOES NOT MAKE SENSE HERE AS IT MIGHT AFFECT PEOPLE]

PEACE.

And with all the intelligent discussion we had so far. It appears, the Gods of heavens above(You see I am thinking there are heavens(dark) below (one of the heaven below is ruled by Baal, as Daf may have pointed out, then theres heavens above -- Gabriel is/was an angel for one of the Kings) has one king, who made cross sign appear with blood. To combine all the polythists Gods and bring them under one banner. The beings in heaven and some mortal men on earth (yogis, priests, wise men) would have ensured that scriptures be written so that we mortals of limited brain could understand it well. And this king may be the God of Knowledge. And would have glorified himself using the name of Christ. Are we all sinners then to revere the name "Jesus Christ"? As this King is glorified than GOD or ALMIGHTY.

The Our Father prayer says : "...They will be done on earth as it is in heaven..." Now I am scared to say those lines. Does it mean the war in heaven will be brought in earth also?

posted November 03, 2004 11:25 PM            

The thing with the rolls is weird, I agree. The fact is, by bying so many, Osho helped the Rolls company in their successes, and hence added to the material world. The question is, what will last longer - his contribution to our material world, or the spiritual lessons he taught in spite of it. Even this discussion is a classic example of who he is. What do we care ultimately about how many cars a person has? Why should we? That is imposing your views on others. Who has created your views? Do they by any chance, change? My point is, Osho did what he did for fairly obvious reasons when you get past what it was that he did.

Yes, Jesus carrying out prophecies because they were prophecies is very strange. I'm still thinking about that one. I guess it was so that people would believe who he was, but then, couldn't anyone who read the old testament do that as well?

posted November 04, 2004 09:10 AM            

Love.

posted November 04, 2004 09:28 AM            

I hope your comments were not judgemental, but your 2 cents, for the discussion.

Magidivision said : "God is closer to you than your Jugular Vein" - "

It means, take the subtlest of particle (atom,electron,...) and you will find spirit of God in it. If God is in Jesus he is in Satan too.

Nothing created by God is crap.

Everyone understands differently and sees differently. Hence its not wise to pass judgements.

If you have to understand light, you must first learn to differentiate it from darkness.

PEACE.