Posts: 1848
From: 49N35 34E34
Registered: Apr 2009

posted January 29, 2009 06:33 PM            

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I have Persephone exactly conjuct Sun/Moon midpoint and asteroid Union ... any ideas?

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Persephone: This asteroid shows how
you deal with leaving home, separation.

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quote:

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The marriage (conjunctio) of the Sun and Moon - the coming together of heaven and earth - results in the philosopher's stone that in turn gives one the ability to transform spiritual lead and give birth to spiritual gold. Spiritual gold can potentially be created in our lives by the alchemical "coming together" of the combined energies (midpoint) of the Sun and the Moon.

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Persephone can also indicate the kind of experience that constitutes a rite of passage - the most profound transformation: the death and rebirth of the self

I guess serious relationships or a marriage might play a very important part in my spiritual growth? interesting that I have NN in Libra and ASC ruler in the 7th

P.S. my brother's Persephone is exactly conj my sister-in-law's DSC, Moon, Jupiter

her Persephone conj his Neptune (he is Pisces)

my mom's Persephone exactly conj my dad's Pluto

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posted January 30, 2009 02:45 AM              

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Peri,

yes, interpreted on its own I`d say Persephone / Proserpina relate to passages and transformations from one level to the other, from daughter to wife for example.

Your parents have what we found to be a very predominant aspect in (assumed) soulmate relationships. So, this is yet another confirmation of this theory. Thank you.

BTW some claim Persephone / Proserpina relates to children that are being kidnapped.
Personally I don`t like that interpretation too much. It takes the myth TOO literally or superficially. Sure, Persephone has been abducted in the myth, too, but the circumstances were completely different ones.
She had been abducted WITH the consent of her father AND she actually, after the initial shock, loved Pluto / Hades back, and didn`t want to leave him. She wanted to have it both, being with her mother and being with her husband.

Nothing of this happens in the case of those horrible crimes of abducting children.

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posted January 30, 2009 02:48 AM            

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DD

Which word would you like to hear?

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posted January 30, 2009 02:51 AM              

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I don`t know.

How about: Good morning. How is your coffee?

Seriously, what is YOU thinking about Pluto-Proserpina / PErsephone?

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posted January 30, 2009 02:55 AM            

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Good morning DD.

I'm contemplating them. Quite honestly, I'm having a hard time digesting them. Because, when you look at the mythology it is not as if they love each other by their own will or choice or attraction. It is something that has been set upon them by the will of others. You know what I mean?

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posted January 30, 2009 02:57 AM              

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You mean they love each other by fate?

It`s not like we can choose whom we love either. (Or whose initials are haunting us on a carplate. Or coming into our dreams, even though we have FIRMLY said that THIS belongs to the past and has no meaning for the present right now. )

I think the key to understanding the myth is the idea of "transformation", a transformation that is very needed, but that we sometimes try to avoid, as people often rather stay with the old familiar ways than moving on into new, yet unfamiliar realms.

That is what deeply resonates with me; the waking up to something new, something that already has slumbered inside (Persephone was always meant to become a woman for instance), but that we have to be awaken to.

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posted January 30, 2009 02:58 AM            

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No, I mean they love each other by force. It is by a spell (Cupid's arrow) not by their own natural instinct/attraction.

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posted January 30, 2009 02:59 AM            

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And do they really love each other or are they just drawn to each other obsessively? Quite a difference, I think.

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posted January 30, 2009 03:07 AM              

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Not to spoil the fun, but it`s usually always Cupid who shoots his arrows and makes people fall in love.
Without him shooting his arrows there wouldn`t be any kind of (erotic) love, even though it is not always mentioned in the short summaries of the myth.

Eros is more than just some more God, he is the lifeforce or power of love itself. And it`s through his arrows that we are alive.
He`s omnipresent so to speak, and the Romans just wrapped him up into the cloth of a somehwat more tangible deity.

Even when he fell in love with Psyche it was because he pricked his finger on his own arrow.
Actually the myth between ERos and Psyche and Pluto and Proserpina are pretty similiar.
Eros also abducted Psyche. Yes, she went with him willingly (or actually he sent a servant to pick her up), but only to save her parents from a nasty fate. She sacrificed herself.

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posted January 30, 2009 03:08 AM            

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I can see that the research fits. But honestly, to me, I can't equate it to soulmate connections. I think it means something - some kind of fated meaning, because there is no denying that the formual is working. I just don't see/believe that the result of all the maths = soulmates. I think it means fated meetings, and nothing more.

I don't for one second believe that Melanie Griffiths and Antonio Banderas are twinflames. Nor Elizabeth Taylor and Richard Burton. I think that they are part of a soul group with each other. And maybe they are the optimal soulmates for each other in carnation. When I think of Elizabeth Taylor, I think of Mike Todd being the one for her.

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posted January 30, 2009 03:09 AM              

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I think we are talking here about soulmates for this incarnation and not twinflames, or did I get this wrong?

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posted January 30, 2009 03:10 AM            

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quote:

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Not to spoil the fun, but it`s usually always Cupid who shoots his arrows and makes people fall in love.

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Nah, that doesn't make sense to me. Sorry. If we are part of a soul group then it is immediate attraction/recognition. It has nothing to do with arrows of love. When twinflames split, it is from the beginning, not from the piercing of an arrow. I can't buy into that belief. It has to be totally natural. Shooting arrows doesn't work for me. It doesn't fit that.

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posted January 30, 2009 03:11 AM            

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You're right - we're talking soulmates. But I think it is the intention of some people here for twinflames. I think a lot of people are looking for that definitive "one".

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posted January 30, 2009 03:12 AM            

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Eros is more than just some more God, he is the lifeforce or power of love itself.

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You're going to make me burn dinner.

I don't know if I believe that. I think the power of love is within the heart of it's owner. Not some external force.

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posted January 30, 2009 03:13 AM            

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She sacrificed herself.

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Well, that's not love either.

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posted January 30, 2009 03:15 AM            

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I just looked at the time. Aren't you at work? And I'm making dinner! ROFL. We're a pair.

This is why I love you.

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posted January 30, 2009 03:21 AM            

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interesting, I was just reading about 'how to deal with Pluto transits' yesterday:

with Pluto one must learn how to surrender not sacrifice; how to use collective, not individual power, how to align with the Power. Pluto teaches us how to allow the divine to become successful through the self - not by sacrifice but by us participating
http://www.azastrologers.org/Newsletters/NewsAug2002.pdf

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posted January 30, 2009 03:29 AM            

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quote:

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You mean they love each other by fate?

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hehe

Good MORNING DD! Great research - l will come back to this later after l have finished cooking breakfast!

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posted January 30, 2009 03:43 AM            

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DD

I'll just clarify. I'm not questioning the research. I'm questioning what it means. The whole things works, fits - no question - but what? I'm not convinced it's what everyone is saying it is. I don't think popular belief or wishful thinking constitutes truth or accurate astrology.

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posted January 30, 2009 04:15 AM              

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Great "food" for thought PA.
What if the greek myth writers did not comprehend transcendental and unconditional nature of love to give the right myth to the celestial bodies ?
I am seeing too many of these aspects occur accurately in seriously lovey dovey long term couples. There is more to this myth than meets the eye, I have seen it make a DW in 2 clear cut twin flame couples and several soul mate pairs.
Then again, this is a nw field, we must keep working at it and collect further data.

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posted January 30, 2009 04:21 AM            

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I am not sure whether it is a soul mate aspect or not but it does seem very karmic, like the two come together to teach each other something very important about their self which can be quite painful, it is not the aspect of 'lived happily n'ever after' but the aspect of 'reaching the bottom and coming back completely changed'

does anyone have any ideas how to interpret Persephone conj Chiron on ASC in a composite chart? eh I dont have a good feeling about it somehow, lol

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posted January 30, 2009 04:21 AM            

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Hey IQ

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What if the greek myth writers did not comprehend transcendental and unconditional nature of love to give the right myth to the celestial bodies ?

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If the right myth is not with the relevant celestial bodies, then doesn't that invalidate every part of this research? And any other research based upon these myths?

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posted January 30, 2009 04:23 AM            

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Peri

quote:

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I am not sure whether it is a soul mate aspect or not but it does seem very karmic, like the two come together to teach each other something very important about their self which can be quite painful, it is not the aspect of 'lived happily n'ever after' but the aspect of 'reaching the bottom and coming back completely changed'

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That I can follow and believe and accept. It resonates with me.

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posted January 30, 2009 04:25 AM            

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IQ

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I am seeing too many of these aspects occur accurately in seriously lovey dovey long term couples.

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I'm just wondering, to balance out the data, how much do these aspects turn up in couples that aren't long term?

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posted January 30, 2009 04:41 AM              

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Well, so far I have studied only successful couples. However, these couples also have many "relationship breakers" missing in their charts like Merc sq Mars, Moon sq Mars, Mars sq Uranus etc.
So we should see if Pluto-Persephone aspect also turns up routinely in failed short term relationships which do not have the standard relationship breaker aspects.

I am not saying the myths are false, I am saying the writers may not have known how to express transcendental love. There is no myth at all which speaks of total, holistic, unconditional love without the need for sacrifice.
The concept is totally Trans Neptunian [if I may borrow Glaucus' term].
If such a myth exists, then we can re-work the study by checking those asteroids

What if Pluto requested Persephone to pretend to be kidnapped, as an elaborate drama?
Myths were transmitted orally, what if the narrators did not word properly all that they did not comprehend? Jupiter is not that benevolent in myths but actual astrological study would show that Jupiter is truly beneficial, even in squares and oppositions.

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