posted July 28, 2010 06:26 PM            

He didn't just go by the mythology. However, it was astrologers that came up with the name,Nessus for the object based on its orbit.

He derives keywords from the zodiac placements of an object's heliocentric north node and perihelion.

Nessus: Ferryman at the River Evenus. Orbital Period: 120.76 yr.

Positive - generous, benevolent, compassionate, willing to lend a helping hand, cooperative, respectful of boundaries, aware of the power of life force energy, healthy use of sexual energy

Negative - coveting, possessive, jealous, vengeful, manipulative, resorting to negative alchemy for personal gain, negative use of sexual energy

Mundane - bad blood between parties, feuds over money especially regarding relationship dissolution, diseases transmitted by blood, transport ferries over water, potions, tonics and elixirs designed to cast spells, therapy specifically designed for healing sexual or monetary issues

Ceremonial - prosperity ceremonies, sexual healing rituals, ceremonies involving Earth fertility

------------------
Raymond Andrews,
President,Executive Director of Developmental Neurodiversity Association
Supporting the Neurodiversity Movement

posted July 29, 2010 01:25 AM            

Quite a few men may have Nessus exact square Saturn as Saturn also moves slowly. Out of these men, the scumbag abuser/killer will be the man who also has Saturn conjunct/square Moon exact, and Mars square/opp Venus.

And just because many men who have these aspects are NOT psychos/sociopaths, dont get tricked. The others have managed to find outlets like pornography and live out the abuse fantasies inside their heads. The aspect does get satisfied. And if they ever get an opportunity where evidence cannot be found [a foreign locale with a half drunk female tourist and its 2-3 AM and they have a flight the next day], 9/10 chances are they will commit sexual assault. Many girls have been assaulted thus in my own country, especially in the state of Goa. Someday, these astrology techniques will be used to sentence the culprits [who have all been let off on bail because of lack of evidence.]

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http://tamsoft.co.in/articles.html

posted July 29, 2010 01:37 AM            

@Persephone:
<<
What would it signify if a man had his moon conjunct nessus and opposite dejanira? Does it mean he may be the victim of emotional abuse from women in his life? Or would he be the abuser?
>>
This will work both ways, first he will be emotionally abused by his mother figure, and then he will vent this emotional abuse on other women after growing up. In rare cases, if the Nessus also squares Mars or if he has very harsh Neptune aspects, he may commit physical assault as revenge for childhood trauma.

Racole and Diandra: Am still collecting info on Ixion. We need to study famous/notorious people with Sun, Moon or Ascendant conjunct Ixion exact for patterns.

A guy with Mars conjunct Dejanira will feel turned on by a helpless/dependent woman, thats it.

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http://tamsoft.co.in/articles.html

posted July 29, 2010 04:26 AM            

But I am still curious whether the aspects I listed are 'red flag" aspects in synastry. Hate to sounds impatient or pushy -- I am just so darn curious. lol! You don't have to go into detail, just a simple yes or no. They just struck me as something to look out for when concerning Nessus aspects. I don't have them with anyone, but curious if I did if I should slowly back away or make a run for it.

posted July 29, 2010 05:01 AM            

Thank you!

posted July 29, 2010 05:24 AM            

well

I have Sun conjunct Ixion with only 5 minutes of arc applying. I am not famous though. With my founding a non profit organization and being a part of the neurodiversity movement, I am now a public figure. There can be potential for fame.

Also Winona Ryder who was born on the same day as me, and she has Sun conjunct Ixion with only 9 minutes of arc separating.

Duane Allman of the Allman Brothers also died in a motorcycle accident on the day that Winona Ryder and I were born.

Philip Sedgwick wrote the following about Ixion:
He didn't go by just the name mythology. He also went by its orbital features. He considered the zodiac sign placements of its heliocentric north node and perihelion.

Ixion: Father of the Centaurs, and not a particularly nice fellow. Orbital Period: 246.78 yr.

Positive - understands karmic wheel, gives and uses a second chance, discerning

Negative - lustful, inconsiderate, inclined to repeat errors, learns nothing from experience

Mundane - second efforts and chances, reset buttons, cloud seeding, study of weather, watching clouds, lust or coveting of another's mate

Ceremonial - rain dances, purging fires, seeking master healers
http://philipsedgwick.com/

Ixion is a kuiper belt object like Pluto. It has ice,rock composition like Pluto does. Ixion is a plutino. That means that it has 2:3 orbital resonance with Neptune just like Pluto. Its orbit is only about a year or two apart. Therefore,it's very similar to Pluto astronomically. It would also make sense for it to be similar astrologically.

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Raymond Andrews,
President,Executive Director of Developmental Neurodiversity Association
Supporting the Neurodiversity Movement

posted July 29, 2010 06:13 AM            

sun conj ixion. I remember you show picture on you here on L.L. For me you looks very scorpio. I think you have charisma and your appearance could be very magnetic. I will think it allways been there in you and will be also in the future. I think ixion do it and did it.

posted July 29, 2010 07:03 AM            

I have a close Sun/Nessus opposition in the 2nd/8th house and have a 3rd house Pisces Moon.

I'm not an abusive person, nor have I been abused or will allow myself to be abused.

Is there any other way the aspects could manifest for a woman?

posted July 29, 2010 07:11 AM            

Nessus in the 7th house
-square Saturn (ruler of Asc)
-square Pluto (ruler of MC)
-square Mars (ruler of the 3rd)
-opposite Lilith (in the 1st).

posted July 29, 2010 07:20 AM            

Izo, Nessus sq Saturn is the core problem, solution is to rigorously raise your Self Esteem and self Awareness, to be alert to any red flags. Make the psychological abuser aware that he or she is abusing you. Scare them with karma. Emotional Abusers will shake from fear when you threaten them that they will suffer from bad karma, and then turn your back and walk away, preferably with the middle finger raised. Because they lose their control over you at that point. And that tortures them no end.

DD, when a girl's Descendant conjuncts a guy's Nessus, she should be able to identify the abusive traits in him should they enter into a relationship.

posted July 29, 2010 07:37 AM            

Nessus makes some sextiles to Karma and Fortuna (as I said, it was close, but I was lucky), also to DNA and, widely, to Kaali. No trines that I can think of.

posted July 29, 2010 07:49 AM              

i didnt knew that ...how awful it must have been! fortunately that thigns didnt went any further.

there were 3 times in my college years that i was followed by 3 different guys in a time space of only 2 weeks.One even grabbed me and i was so terrified that i managed to put up all my strength and let go of him and started running to my house.

posted July 29, 2010 08:06 AM            

He seems to be close with his mother but she does appear to have great ambitions for him, to be uber-successful in his career.

posted July 29, 2010 10:19 AM            

BUT-I have Nessus in my 8th. Does this have any meaning?

I was abused emotionally, verbally, psychologically-in my family. I have such a
strange family-nonconformists, artists (writers, musicians) but full of negative energy, full of hate and pain and love. And so immature. We are all loners-willingly but somehow also condemned to be alone with each other to torture and love each other at the same time.

posted July 29, 2010 10:36 AM            

There are list of positives for Nessus that Philip Sedgwick came up with:

Positive - generous, benevolent, compassionate, willing to lend a helping hand, cooperative, respectful of boundaries, aware of the power of life force energy, healthy use of sexual energy

The main thing about Nessus is that it links the orbits of Saturn and Pluto.

Saturn/Pluto midpoint is said to be Nessus-sensitive. That means aspects to Saturn/Pluto midpoint is like aspects to Nessus.

It was astronomical orientied astrologers that came up with the name for the object, and it was accepted by the astronomers. That was the first object whose name was proposed by astrologers and accepted by astronomers. Other centaurs also followed in the same fashion.

------------------
Raymond Andrews,
President,Executive Director of Developmental Neurodiversity Association
Supporting the Neurodiversity Movement

posted July 29, 2010 10:56 AM            

Message: 17
Date: Sun, 08 Aug 1999 20:05:47 -0600
From: jar@xxxxxxx.xx.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx)
Subject: Re: Re: dissolution

... Actor Ryan O'Neal is a very interesting example. He was born 20 April 1941 at 9:34 PST.

Sun = 0,14 Taurus
Venus = 0,36 Taurus
Nessus = 2,02 Taurus
Pluto = 2,02 Leo

It is interesting in this respect that his emblematic film was "Love Story", where one sees the Nessus/Pluto angle quite well, and I guess the conjunction shows in all his other roles. I would love to know what you and all the others think about him, and would like to know what happened to him...

Juan

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Message: 4
Date: Sat, 07 Aug 1999 14:35:05 -0600
From: jar@xxxxxxx.xx.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx)
Subject: Edgar Rice Burroughs

Edgar Rice Burroughs was born September 1, 1875 in Chicago. The Zodiacal Zephyr database gives a time of 9 PM LMT from Streinbecher quoting his birth certificate.

The first 'Tarzan' story appeared in 1912 (age 37), following by other 25 books based on it. He had had "numerous unsuccessful jobs" before this, but Tarzan and his stories about life on Mars were an enormous success, translated during his lifetime to 56 languages.

This is what I found:

Sun = 9,12 Virgo
SG35 = 9,59 Pisces
Nessus = 8,37 Sagittarius.

So astrologically he definitely was a Centaur, with Nessus in the axis of the T-Cross. My encyclopedia says that he witnessed the Pearl Harbor attack (age 66) and, as a correspondent for 'Los Angeles Times', "was the oldest correspondent covering the South Pacific during WWII". I think this has something to do with the following conjunction:

Mars = 0,31 Capricorn
TL66 = 29,56 Sagittarius Rx.

The Nessus connection doesn't seem surprising, and the opposition to SG35 is a revelation that could tell us something about SG35. I wonder if someone knows some detail about his personality?

Juan

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Message: 5
Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 21:03:29 -0600
From: jar@xxxxxxx.xx.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx)
Subject: Stephen Crane

The American writer Stephen Crane was born November 1, 1871. Assuming Noon GMT, we have:

Sun = 8,39 Scorpio
Mercury = 8,02 Scorpio
Nessus = 7,33 Scorpio

He is best known for his first 2 novels (quotes are from the Britannica):

"Maggie: A Girl of the Streets" (1893) written when he was 23, "a sympathetic study of an innocent and abused slum girls's descent into prostitution and her eventual suicide", and

"The Red Badge of Courage" (1895) "a subtle impressionistic study of a young soldier trying to find reality amid the conflict of fierce warfare. The book's hero, Henry Fleming, survives his own fear, cowardice, and vainglory and goes on to discover courage, humility, and perhaps wisdom..."

He died of tuberculosis that was compounded by recurrent malarial fever in June 5, 1900, at the early age of 28.

Juan

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Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 12:55:25 -0600
From: jar@expreso.co.cr (Juan Revilla)
Subject: [Centaurs] Re: Stephen Crane

Nessus, and probably all centaurs, are a contradiction. Not only because the centaur symbol, half one thing and half another, is a contradiction, but because their very small size contradicts the strength of their astrological effect.

Stephen Crane is considered "a great stylist and a master of the contradictory effect". He achieves this through his "ironic explorations of human nature and destiny", by means of "tensions between irony and pity, illusion and reality, or the double mood of hope contradicted by despair" (Britannica). His short story "The Open Boat" is "one of the world's great short stories".

The Circle Book of Charts (#318) provides a birth-time of 5:30 a.m. for Stephen Crane, taken from his father's journal as it appears in "Stephen Crane" by R.W. Stallman (1968). So let's see again how centaurean he was:

Sun = 8,35 Scorpio
Mercury = 7,55 Scorpio
Nessus = 7,33 Scorpio

CU26 = 8,08 Leo
Chiron = 7,45 Leo

His Moon is in 23,57 Gemini, conjunct its node in 22,25 Gemini and in applying opposition to Mars in 25,27 Sagittarius, which define well his working as a war correspondent and as an author novels and short stories about war. But this Moon doesn't have very close centaur contacts, so I will ignore it for now...

The presence of Nessus can be seen in his first novel "Maggie" (1893, age 22), which he wrote from his own experience in the Bowery slums of New York where he lived the bohemian life of a poor student. This novel was so shocking that he published it at his own expense and under a pseudonym. It was written with an uncompromising realism, inaugurating what in the next generation became the sociological novel in American literature.

It is easy to see in the description of the novel ("innocent", "abused", "slum girl", "descent", "prostitution", "suicide") the familiar Nessus territory. The fact that in the narration he is "sympathetic" towards Maggie, reflects very well the conjunction aspect with the Sun. In fact, the Britannica says that he lived his life so unconventionally and his sympathy for the downtrodden was so consistent that "he aroused malicious gossip and false charges of drug addiction and satanism".

The dynamic of this Sun/Nessus conjunction, is also well expressed in the description of his second novel, "The Red Badge of Courage", described as "a psychological portrait of fear" ("a young soldier", "reality amid the conflict", "fierce warfare", "survives his own fear", "cowardice", "vainglory", "discover courage", "humility", "wisdom"), but in this case the Sun, the young hero, appears stronger.

Nessus is also to be seen in his having died at such an early age (30 yrs), usually related to his privations and exposure during his years in the N.Y. slums and later as a war correspondent, in Cuba and Greece, united with his deliberate disregard for his health. The day he died (June 5, 1900, in Germany), The Sun (13,56 Gemini) and Nessus(14,16 Pisces) were in exact square, certifying the Nessonian qualities of his life and his death of combined tuberculosis and malaria.

Juan

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Message: 5
Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 12:16:25 - 0600
From: jar@xxxxxxx.xx.xx (Juan Revilla)
Subject: The High Priest of Satan

The data of Anton Szandor LaVey has just been posted on another list: April 11 1930 at 3:30 a.m. CST in Chicago, from the birth certificate. It was posted by Louis Rodden, who mentions "B.C. in hand from Edwin Steinbrecher".

He is a good Nessus case:

Nessus = 20,11 Ari
Sun = 20,46 Ari

Venus = 6,30 Tau
Pallas = 6,54 Tau
Pylenor = 7,58 Tau

Neptune = 1,03 Vir r
Ascend = 1,52 Pis

Anton Szandor LaVey, <<High Priest of the First Church of Satan in San Francisco, some time lion tamer, calliope player, as well as occultist and Satanist. Born April 11, 1930 in Chicago, Illinois, of Alsatian-French-German-Romanian-Russian ancestry. From the age of seven onwards, he studied books on occultism and the supernatural, including 'Dracula', 'Frankenstein' and pulp horror magazines. At high school he detested his schoolmates and lived in a world of literary black magic....
(...)
<<Through an uncle who had supplied alcohol to the Al Capone gang during Prohibition, young La Vey was introduced to the sleazy world of Las Vegas mobsters, and found their self-serving life- style appealing. He dropped out of high school and hung around pool halls with hustlers, pimps and gamblers...
(...)
<<In his own words "That's when you really learn power and magic, even how to play God: when you are lying in the sawdust with a lion breathing in your face."...
(...)
<<His first wife Carole was divorced in 1960, and LaVey married Diane, a seventeen-year old who assisted his Friday night occult seminars in San Francisco. One of these was on cannibalism, illustrated practically by serving a well-cooked meal of human flesh with fried bananas and yams (the flesh was obtained from a cadaver in a San Francisco hospital...
(...)
<<With his black scarlet-lined cape, his weird activities and strange pets (tarantula, leopard and lion), LaVey attracted great publicity, and in due course he decided to formalize his life style by founding a new cult. On Walpurgis Night (April 30) 1966, he shaved his head and announced the First Church of Satan. This was a new religion celebrating carnal indulgence and self-satisfaction in place of self-denial, vengeance instead of tolerance, Satan in place of the Christian God...
(...)
<<LaVey undoubtedly has charisma, power and a keen intellect, and his Satanist philosophy has penetrated many influential areas of human activity...>>
[quotes are from the "Encyclopedia of Occultism and Parapsychology", Leslie Shepard, Ed., 1978]

Juan

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Message: 9
Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 15:58:21 -0600
From: jar@xxxxxxx.xx.xx (Juan Revilla)
Subject: Re: Mozart and Salieri

His name was Antonio Salieri, b. August 18, 1750 in Legnano. Apparently Mozart believed that he had *tried* to poisoned him once, but this is only a legend. The movie "Amadeus" further distorted this legend and what it shows is pure speculation. He died May 7, 1825 in Vienna.

Salieri's Node = 29,22 Sag
Mozart's Nessus = 29,35 Sag

Juan

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Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 10:14:53 -0600
Reply-To: astro_club@egroups.com
Subject: [astro_club] Compleanni oggi - Pestalozzi

<<1746 - Pestalozzi Johann, m, 12.01.1746g, 16:00, Zürich, -0h34m12s (o), 17kre5>>

Si esta hora es la correcta, entonces encontramos los siguiente:

Luna = 27,39 Virgo
Neso = 27,26 Virgo
Folo = 27,25 Sagitario
Higeia = 27,51 Piscis.

Esto le da un gran enfasis a la Luna. Alguno conoce por casualidad una referencia acerca de la hora de nacimiento que no sea otro astrologo? (referencia=astrologo=sin referencia)

El fodo primario es Luna/Neso, despues el eje con Higeia, y despues Folo. Al final, Folo es el foco de la Cruz-T.

Neso/Folo = los pobres, los huerfanos, los marginados, los abandonados, los debiles, los deseperanzados

Higeia = educacion

Pestalozzi fue un reformador radical en su epoca (Sol=22,25 Capricornio, 1999RG33=22,06 Cancer). RG33 (#15504) es un damocloide moviendose entre la franja de asteroides y Urano.

"regresar a la naturaleza" (Neso-Folo-Higeia).

de la Britannica:

<<Durante 30 anos, Pestalozzi vivio en el aislamiento de su finca en Neuhof, escribiendo profusamente sobre educacion, politica y economia, indicando maneras para mejorar la suerte de los pobres. Sus propuestas fueron todas ignoradas por sus paisanos, y se vue volviendo cada mas deseperanzado.>>

Despues de la Revolucion Francesa, cuando ya tenia 50 anos, fue llamado por la Republica Helvetica para que organizara la Educacion Superior, <<pero prefirio comenzar desde el principio. Recogio cantidades de huerfanos de la guerra abandonados y los cuido casi siempre el solo, intentando crear una atmosfera familiar que restaurara sus cualidades morales. Estos pocos meses agotadores en Stans (1799) fueron, de acuerdo con el relato del propio Pestalozzi, los dias mas felices de su vida.>>

Despues ya comezo a tener el reconocimiento de sus contemporaneos, aunque nunca pudo cumplir su anhelo de establecer una institucion educativa permanente para los pobres. Al final se retiro con los alumnos que le quedaban a Neuhof, donde escribio su "Canto del Cisne" (1826)

Murio el 17 de febrero de 1827, el mismo ano que Beethoven y William Blake.

dice la Britannica:

<<Pestalozzi fue una impresionante personalidad, altamente estimada por sus contemporaneos. Su concepto de la educacion abarcaba la politica, la economia, y la filosofia, y la influencia de su "metodo" fue inmensa.>>

Juan

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Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 09:46:19 -0600
Reply-To: astro_club@egroups.com
Subject: Re: [astro_club] ESP - Pestalozzi para Juan

A las 16h, Neptuno en Cancer esta exactamente en el grado del Ascendente, esta "solitario por hemisferio", y ademas es la "manigueta" del mapa (es una "flecha" o "ballesta"). La oposicion Sol/Neptuno es el eje de todo el mapa, y el enfasis de Cancer (y de Neptuno), junto a la Luna en la 4a muy cerca de I.C., le dan un gran enfasis a los valores lunares.

Este enfasis lunar-maternal sobresale en su biografia: crear hogares de educacion para los ninos pobres, que el sostenia por si solo, convertir su residencia privada en una escuela para ninos, la preocupacion por el aspecto emocional y la atencion y el respeto a las etapas de desarrollo de la ninez.

Pestalozzi me parece un ejemplo extraordinario del servicio comunitario y del pensamiento social abstracto caracteristicos de Neptuno, que convirtio la preocupacion maternal en interes universal y humanitario. El enfasis de Neptuno explica muy bien su preocupacion por solucionar el problema de la pobreza y su entrega de una vida entera a la educacion.

En la conjuncion Mercurio/Urano, tal como lo mencionas, podriamos ver su habilidad para desarrollar ideas muy originales en su tiempo acerca de la educacion, pero desde mi perspectiva, todo el mapa (y su vida) se apoyan sobre Neptuno.

Juan

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Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 08:08:58 -0600
Reply-To: Centaurs@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Centaurs] Re: Nessus and rape

It is not a certain mythological fact that Nessus "raped" Deianira, and he probably didn't, even though I am told that in some versions it is mentioned that Deianira had at her disposal Nessus blood and "sperm". In Sophocles' "The Trachiniae" Deianira herself tells her story, i.e., her own version of the experience she had, which goes like this:

"I will tell you, friends, the way by which I hope to find deliverance and relief. I had a gift, given to me long ago by a monster of olden time, aid stored in an urn of bronze; a gift which, while yet a girl, I took up from the shaggy-breasted Nessus,- from his life-blood, as he lay dying; Nessus, who used to carry men in his arms across the deep waters of the Evenus, using no oar to waft them, nor sail of ship.
"I, too, was carried on his shoulders,- when, by my father's sending, first went forth with Heracles as his wife; and when I was in mid-stream, he touched me with wanton hands. I shrieked; the son of Zeus turned quickly round, and shot a feathered arrow; it whizzed through his breast to the lungs; and, in his mortal faintness, thus much the Centaur spake:- 'Child of aged Oeneus, thou shalt have at least this profit of my ferrying,- if thou wilt hearken,-because thou wast the last whom I conveyed. If thou gatherest with thy hands the blood clotted round my wound, at the place where the Hydra, Lerna's monstrous growth, hath tinged the arrow with black gall,- this shall be to thee a charm for the soul of Heracles, so that he shall never look upon any woman to love her more than thee.' http://classics.mit.edu/Sophocles/trachinae.html

So, according to this, it is a fact that Nessus did not "raped" Deianira, in the same way that, for example, it is said that Pluto did indeed "raped" Proserpina. What Nessus did was touch her with "crazy" or wanton hands.

Does Deianira say that he raped him? No! Does the mythographer say that Nessus wanted revenge and lied and deceived Deianira? No!

On the contrary, I see the dying Nessus' gift to Deianira as genuine gift for her benefit and protection. Herakles was eventually killed with his own poison, not Nessus', and as a consequence of his brutality and unfaithfulness.

Legal or moral questions aside, seeing it from the point of view of Nessus (the old strong and solitary slave), I see what carrying Deianira (the young and seductive adolescent) on her back must have meant. This was also well understood by the poet Ruben Dario in 1898 when he put the following words in the mouth of Nessus:

<<The Enigma is the fatal face of Deianira!
My back still carries the sweet perfume of her beauty;
and my eyes are still yearning for her starry radiance.
Oh the perfume of her sex! Oh roses and alabaster!
Oh envy of the flowers and jealousy of the stars!

... which, at the same time, is precisely what caused his death.

Juan

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Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 11:21:13 -0600
Reply-To: Centaurs@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Centaurs] Re: Nessus and rape

To me, the main value of this quote from Sophocles, a mythographer writing several centuries before Ovid, is that it shows clearly, in my opinion, that we cannot look at myths simplistically. Myths have history, they evolve in response to changing cultural conditions, and it is unwise to simply repeat what one author says about the myth. We happilly have access to a lot of material in the Web an can make some research ourselves.

Quoting the poetic interpretation of Ruben Dario, who was an ardent student of mythology himself, shows, in my view, that if we are to use myths as source for astrological readings, then we should do it creatively in terms of what it says to us, instead of simply repeating what the Greeks or tradition says.

I believe that we cannot or should not use the myth exclusively or preponderantly to derive astrological characteristics. This is a precedent inherited from main-belt and fast asteroid work in the past, but the history of centaurs research I feel has always given precedence to orbital symbolism; witness the possibility of knowing the characteristics before the object has been named, as is shown in the naming process of some of them.

I have not used the myths in my work, and I will always reject the prevalent views that see Nessus superficially as "the bad guy" just because the myth says so. I have rejected this from the very beginning. There is no denying that Nessus often is very nasty and can manifest as rape, but it is unacceptable to me to stop there without seeing what is behind these manifestations, the dynamics, and ignoring altogether the more "human" and fragile characteristics of Nessus. I agree with Jonathan, as we discussed Nessus here years ago, that the main theme is that of the "Beauty and the Beast". The very pathological or extreme cases are always good illustrations, but, in my opinion, we cannot take them as models.

[...]

Concerning the psycho-dynamics of centaurs, I found the following the other day (sorry, lost the source) about Ruben Dario, which I think can help us understand this:

[BEGIN QUOTE]
"The subject of the centaur's poetic colloquium is the enigma of life itself, which is quickly linked to woman. Different centaurs relate their encounters with women, Deianira and Hippodamia, and how sexual attraction lead them to their deaths. Venus is then explained as being the motivator of woman's fatal machinations, behind whose eyes evil lurks, whose head is filled with bestiality and deceit, and whose perfumed flower exhales a subtle danger. Man is eternally attracted (like the centaurs to their deaths) by the fragrance of sex. The centaur Medon claims to have seen death: she is not the grim reaper but is more like Diana, chaste and virgin, wearing a wreath of starry roses, holding the palms of triumph in one hand and a cup of the water of forgetfulness in the other. At her feet love lies like a sleeping dog. She is death, desired (her beauty and offerings) and desiring (Diana, the huntress with her dogs). Man is thus trapped between opposites: life (Venus, sex) and death (Diana, chastity)."
[END QUOTE]

Juan

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Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 17:19:15 -0600
Reply-To: Centaurs@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Centaurs] Ovid on the death of Nessus, 2

I am really interested in knowing what exactly Ovid says.

There is an interesting essay on Book IX of Ovid's Metamorphoses written by Kristen Hertwig and Nathan Brown (http://www.auburn.edu/~downejm/2207/ov9.html) that summarizes tha passage in the following way:

<<Hercules and his new bride made their way to his native citys walls, and along their way encountered Nessus, a centaur. Nessus lost his life for love of Deianira when he tried to escape with her while Hercules was swimming across the river. Hercules shot Nessus with an arrow that contained Hydras poison. Nessus did not think he should die unavenged so he gave the blood soaked shirt to Deianira.>>

which has nothing to do with what we are being told regarding an alleged Deianira's rape.

Another site says about this Ovid passage that Nessus <<offers violence>> to Dejanira, which is consistent with Sophocles account (remember Ovid was a Roman, while Sophocles wrote in Greece centuries before and must have bee used by Ovid as one of its sources) of the "wanton hands".

Here is the Latin rendering of the complete passage:

"Huic tamen ablati doluit iactura decoris, cetera sospes habet. capitis quoque fronde saligna aut superinposita celatur harundine damnum. at te, Nesse ferox, eiusdem virginis ardor perdiderat volucri traiectum terga sagitta. namque nova repetens patrios *** coniuge muros venerat Eueni rapidas Iove natus ad undas. uberior solito, nimbis hiemalibus auctus, verticibusque frequens erat atque inpervius amnis. intrepidum pro se, curam de coniuge agentem Nessus adit, membrisque valens scitusque vadorum, 'officio' que 'meo ripa sistetur in illa haec,' ait 'Alcide. tu viribus utere nando!' pallentemque metu, fluviumque ipsumque timentem tradidit Aonius pavidam Calydonida Nesso. mox, ut erat, pharetraque gravis spolioque leonis-- nam clavam et curvos trans ripam miserat arcus-- 'quandoquidem coepi, superentur flumina' dixit, nec dubitat nec, qua sit clementissimus amnis, quaerit, et obsequio deferri spernit aquarum. iamque tenens ripam, missos *** tolleret arcus, coniugis agnovit vocem Nessoque paranti fallere depositum 'quo te fiducia' clamat 'vana pedum, violente, rapit? tibi, Nesse biformis, dicimus. exaudi, nec res intercipe nostras. si te nulla mei reverentia movit, at orbes concubitus vetitos poterant inhibere paterni. haud tamen effugies, quamvis ope fidis equina; vulnere, non pedibus te consequar.' ultima dicta re probat, et missa fugientia terga sagitta traicit. exstabat ferrum de pectore aduncum. quod simul evulsum est, sanguis per utrumque foramen emicuit mixtus Lernaei tabe veneni. excipit hunc Nessus 'ne' que enim 'moriemur inulti' secum ait, et calido velamina tincta cruore dat munus raptae velut inritamen amoris."

Juan

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Date: Sun, 04 Mar 2001 10:06:31 -0600
Reply-To: crp@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [crp] more on the mythology of Nessus

In a message I wrote February 1st of this year, I mentioned the account of Nessus by Apollodorus which was references to me by Stefania, a friend from the Italian "Astro_Club" yahoogroups forum, which is interested in asteroids and centaurs. I found the references today in the Web and want to share them here, even though I am aware that for many of you this may be well known and repetitive.

In a pair of messages a few days ago I questioned the alleged malevolence of Nessus and the assumptions of the actual rape of Deianira. I believe it is clear from the text of Ovid that such an assumption cannot be made, and had presented, in a post before that, the quote from Sophocles' "Trachiniae" where Deianira tells her own story, where it is clear that she was not raped.

I also presented the original Latin version of Ovid, but I do not read Latin. The complete text of the "Metamorphoses" found in the Web is a translation by John Dryden et als which is probably not too literal, so it is interesting always to see other translations. What follows is taken in its entirety from http://www.theoi.com/Okeanos/Nessos.htm

The account of Apollodorus is as follows:

"With Deianeira he [Herakles] made his way to the Euenos river, where Nessos the Kentauros had set up business ferrying travellers for a fee, maintaining that he had received the franchise from the gods because of his moral rectitude. Herakles crossed the river on his own, but when Nessos demanded payment even so, he let him conduct Deianeira across. En route he tried to rape her. Herakles heard her scream, and shot Nessos in the heart with an arrow when he had landed. As Nessos was dying, he called Deianeira to him and told her that if she wanted a love-potion to use on Herakles, she should mix the semen which he had spilled on the ground with the blood that was flowing from the wound made by the arrowhead. She did this, and kept the potion with her." -Apollodorus 2.151

From Ovid, we know that Nessus "fell in love" with Deianira, either attempting to rape her or taking her away on his back. But Ovid does not say anything about Deianira being actually raped. Here, Apollodorus says the same thing, i.e., that Nessus attempted to rape her. The two accounts are consistent, and so is Deianira's description of Nessus touching her with "wanton hands" in Sophocles. Sophocles makes it clear that Deianira was not raped, and all three --together with the poet Ruben Dario-- agree that Nessus "went mad" out of his amorous desires (Oh the smell of her sex!) and the terrified Deianira screamed Hercules for help.

Apollodorus gives us some details not found in the other accounts, for example, that Heracles waited until Nessus had landed in order to kill him. Had he shot his arrow while they were at the middle of the river, Deianira would have drowned! Another detail present in Apollodorus is the semen that Nessus spilled on the ground, so we can imagine how "sexually crazy" or excited he was.

These images are very similar to the one of King Kong in love kidnapping the young beauty, minus the attempted rape or semen (that could not be part of the movie due to censorship!). And the spilled semen is the clear image of an un-requited sexual desire. It says explicitly that Nessus had ejaculated, but the woman was repelled by him and did not penetrate her. This exactly the same as the "Pelleas and Melisande" story, Melisande's rejection of his husband Golaud, who went mad of jealosy and killed his brother (see my analysis in http://www.expreso.co.cr/centaurs/essays/winged2.html)

Now let's see for completeness the following translation of the complete passage of Ovid, as it appears in the above site:

"But savage Nessus lost his life for love of that same lady [Deianeira], when an arrow flew to pierce his side. When Jove's son, Hercules, was making for his native city's walls with his new bride, he reached the rushing waters of braod Euenus, high beyond its wont. The river, swollen by the winter's rains and full of whirlpools, poured impassable. And as he stood there, fearless for himself but anxious for his wife, Nessus approached, mighty in muscle and knowing the fords well. 'With my help she'll stand safe on the far side', he volunteered: 'You, use your strength and swim!'
To Nessus then the Theban hero gave his bride of Calydon, pale and afraid, dreading the river, dreading the Centaur too. And then, just as he was, with all the weight of lion-skin and quiver (club and bow he's thrown across), 'Since I've begun', he cried, 'I'll beat one river more!' and never paused to take his time or pick the kindest water, and scorned to use the current's services. And now on the far bank and stooping for the bow he'd thrown, he heard a voice, his wife's, calling and sure that Nessus had in mind a breach of trust, 'You raping ravisher!' he cried, 'Where are you going? So confident in your four feet! Nessus, you centaur, listen! Hold off from me and mine. Maybe you feel no dread of me ­ at least your father's wheel should hold you back from lust and lechery. Trust horse-strength if you will, you'll not escape. With wounds not feet I'll follow!' His last words were proved at once: an arrow flew and pierced the fleeing Centaur's back: out from his breast the barbed point stuck. He wrenched the shaft away, and blood from both wounds spurted, blood that bore the Hydra's poison. Nessus caught it up. 'I'll not die unavenged', he thought and gave his shirt soaked in warm gore to Deianira, a talisman, he said, to kindle love … [Deianeira, hearing rumours Herakles was to marry Iole] Swaying from plan to plan, at last she chose to send the shirt imbued with Nessus' blood to fortify her husband's failing love … An Hercules receiving the gift and on his shoulders wore, in ignorance, the Hydra-poisoned gore." ­Metamorphoses 9.102-158

We can see that the texts do not contradict each other. They all agree in an attemped rape or something very similar. It is clear that Deianira was not raped or "ravished". What we don't know is if Deianira was telling the truth about her not consenting... we simply assume that she was.

On the other hand, Apollodorus wrote that Nessus franchise as a "ferryman" was given to him by the Gods as recompense for his rectitude. Why do we have to assume that he was lying?

So, in conclusion, I would like to repeat what I wrote before:

Legal or moral questions aside, seeing it from the point of view of Nessus (the old strong and solitary "beast"), I see what carrying Deianira (the young and seductive adolescent) on her back must have meant.

posted July 29, 2010 11:00 AM            

THE REDEMPTION OF NESSUS
1- Introduction
In the very little time since its discovery in 1993, Nessus has been associated with bad and ugly things, primarily coming from the mythological association it has with poison and death, and the proximity of its orbit to Pluto. This associations have been confirmed by observation, but have precluded an understanding of the process involved. This happens when mythology is used too literally.

Take the story of Deianira, for example; isn't it also a part of the Nessus dynamics? Heracles, Nessus and Deianira are a triangle, a unity, like three aspects of the same thing. Heracles is a very violent and primitive "raw" type, hardly an archetype for humanity... it is more an archetype of what is raw in us, like a mythological counterpart of the centaurs. His ways are violently cruel and deadly like the creatures he kills.

We must see the whole process involved and not only the negative part. What is the dynamics of Nessus that manifests itself in a monstrous, poisonous way? The vulnerability of Deianira, Nessus lust, and Heracles rawness are part of the same cruel story. If I take Heracles as "raw" humanity, then the "bad blood" associated with Nessus is the consequence or continuation of the cruelty and violence that Heracles represents. What Nessus does is leave Heracles violence and cruelty naked, which means he could be the cure, for example, not only the disease. Like an homeopathic remedy or a vaccine, the disease has to come out in order to heal it...

History and the past, from a psychological point of view, are alive, not dead, and will "come to hunt us" as if from the future or from "destiny", but it is really the unredeemed past transformed into something that seems to poison us. However, we are the poison, we created it. Nessus "beast" is our creation, and he will do what he was programmed to do. Our dark and raw past is not that bad. Inside of it, in its heart, is the vulnerability of Deianira, our inner child...

2- Wild Nature
Josh Payne, of "Chiron and Friends", once associated Nessus with the image of "the beast", coming from Arnold Schwarzenegger's "Terminator" and "Predator" films. This image is probably a very fit description of Nessus, which, with its very diminutive size, paradoxically appears as Godzilla to my imagination.

Wild beasts may be an excellent example of our relationship with Nessus. The beast is in all of us; but it is this beast that teach us the beauty and the harmony of life. For example: when you have a very intense and prolonged (physical or emotional) pain you are in hell, and would like to die, but when it goes away you are able to feel the beauty and the immensity of the most simple things of life.

We can learn to respect the wild, as we learn to respect darkness, and death. I can be eaten all right, but what "eats me" is also me. I would like to think that we are not those Christians thrown to the lions anymore, the lion being modern man's darkness. Maybe it is more like "The Beauty and the Beast" story. The "wild beasts" of nature can kill me, but they can also expand almost to the infinite my love of life. This is the process: when life expands it touches death and goes beyond it, so that death matters no more and becomes the completion of life.

Our worst fears and venoms inside are our own creation, like Frankenstein. There is communion and real intimacy with the wolf: we live with him everyday inside ourselves, our house, our family. The idea of "venom" is something that is inoculated, either from the outside or by your own chemistry inside, like an "attack". Maybe the evil in the beast lies is this way of thinking, which is mechanical and rigid.

It is an unquestioned, culturally and historically conditioned way of thinking about disease, about the relationship between health and sickness. It is not the facts themselves, but how we interpret them. This mechanical/chemical view of health and disease is wrong and misleading... but I'm afraid we are doing the same thing when we think of Nessus as "venom".

We outcast Cain, so that he wanders homeless, "outside". But he is very much part of us, inside.

3- Frankenstein
Mary Wollstonecraft Shelley, the second wife of the English poet, published "Frankenstein, or The Modern Prometheus" in 1818, when she was 21. She was born August 30, 1797, in London. Zodiacal Zephyr's "Celebrity Data" gives 11:20 PM, and it says "source = mother". We have:

Sun = 7,57 Virgo
Neptune = 8,25 Scorpio
Nessus = 7,32 Aries R.

Nessus is the "Finger of God" in this powerful Yod. This is kind of telling. The Sun/Neptune sextile gives her a vision that transcends the limits of life, while Nessus is the star that breaks those limits going beyond death and being human, as Frankenstein did.

Pluto also enters the picture:

Pluto = 29,10 Aquarius R.
New Moon before birth = 29,33 Leo

At the middle of 1818, she was having a progressed New Moon:

progressed New Moon = 28,04 Virgo
natal Mercury = 28,44 Virgo
natal Pallas = 27,43 Virgo
natal Vesta = 27,50 Aquarius R.
M.C. = 27,14 Aquarius

So she finished writing "Frankenstein" when the progressed Sun and Moon were in conjunction with radical Pallas and Mercury. But her "vision" depends on the Sun, which carries with it the Yod configuration. It is as if her mission in life was to "catapult" this vision of Nessus. I think "Frankenstein" is a good archetype of Nessus. And the most important point here is that Frankenstein-Nessus had a heart. I'm going to quote Josh Payne, of "Quiron and Friends", who wrote:

"though he may be a hideous monster, Nessus has a heart, has fragility. Frankenstein just wants to be accepted and loved (especially by his creator)..."

And later describes the Frankenstein story as

"...an extremely touching portrayal of the plight of the deformed outcast, especially the scene in which he is talking to the blind man... The words he utters (I don't remember exactly), "people are afraid... because I am so.... ugly" express such a tremendous pain, which embodies how hard it is for us to say something like 'I am so ugly'."

These very few words of Josh is the best I have ever read about Nessus. They bring to my memory a Spanish movie called "The Spirit of the Beehive", directed by Victor Erice, which contains a nightly scene where a small child, lost in the forest, meets Frankenstein and speaks with him... Frankenstein is mute and quiet, like the night; the child is not afraid of him, as if the "monster" is an aspect of the child's psyche and is seen without malevolence or fear. Frankenstein longed for love and sympathy, but he became something dark and destructive, inspiring only horror and loathing. Nevertheless he had a human heart, he was our creation, a part of ourselves that is socially despised. His creator (which is his mirror-image), trespassed the boundaries of life, death, and morality.

4- The Elephant Man

Remember the true story of John Merrick, The Elephant Man? He was born August 5, 1862, in Leicester. His Sun is (at 12 GMT) in 12,45 Leo, Nessus is in 10,56 Leo, Pluto in 11,23 Taurus. David Lynch made an Academy-nominated film of it, and it is so painfully human and dreadfully grim at the same time, far beyond words...

First Frankenstein, then this, maybe we are getting into Nessus vulnerability at last!

It is very intriguing to find that Lynch, born January 20, 1946, has Pluto in 10,53 Leo, the exact place where John Merrick had Nessus in 10,56 Leo; Lynch also has the Sun at 29,50 Capricorn (12 GMT), John Merrick has Pholus in 0,34 Aquarius, while John Hurt, the actor who played John Merrick, born January 22 1940, has the Sun in 1,20 Aquarius (at 12h GMT) and Pluto in 1,47 Leo.

John Hurt has the same Sun-Nessus-Pluto configuration that John Merrick; reduced to the sidereal zodiac to account for the precession in making the comparisons, we have:

John Merrick Nessus = 18,08 Cancer
John Merrick Pholus = 7,45 Capricorn

David Lynch Pluto = 16,54 Cancer
David Lynch Sun = 5,52 Capricorn

John Hurt Sun = 7,25 Capricorn
Jon Hurt Pluto = 7,53 Capricorn
John Hurt Nessus = 5,16 Aries

This Pholus connection is interesting, since David Lynch seems to be very Pholus-influenced. His Pholus is at Capricorn 23,32. The midpoint with the Sun (29,50 Cap) is 26,41 Cap, which is where Venus is, at 26,56. This makes him a Pholus man through Venus, or art. (23--26--29)

"The Elephant Man" was issued in 1980, when transiting Nessus was in opposition to his Pholus and transiting Pholus was in sextile to his natal Sun. The film was based on Frederic Treeves' memoirs, the doctor that "saved" John Merrick. He was born February 15, 1853. He has:

Sun = 26,52 Aquarius
Mars = 22,25 Aquarius
midpoint = 24,38
Nessus = 24,21 Gemini

He was a surgeon (Sun/Mars), and the exact trine to the midpoint of the comjunction suggests a more positive and creative side of Nessus. When John Merrick died, April 11, 1890, Nessus had travelled up to 23,31 Aquarius, over this Sun/Mars conjunction of Dr. Treeves. (it was stationary retrograde at the exact midpoint at the end of May that same year). The death of John Merrick "seeded" Dr. Treeves Sun/Mars with Nessus.

Dr. Treeves has Uranus in 4,59 Taurus, in exact conjunction (when precession corrected) with David Lynch's Nessus in 5,55 Taurus. Whe John Merrick, died, Venus was here, in 4,38 Taurus (precession-corrected to David Lynch's chart it is 5,25 Taurus, 30' from his Nessus). And from the movie, one can see how venusianly David Lynch saw John Merrick, especially at his death.

The end of the movie is the redemption of Nessus. It is all Venus. The dreadful Beast of horror is gone, now he is a man, not an animal, nor an elephant to be shown at the circus to make people scream out of his ugliness, but a man that is loved and respected. Hi finishes his miniature model of the London Cathedral, whose tower he sees from the window, and signs it with his name: "John Merrick". He watches a picture at the wall near his bed of a man in quiet sleep, and prepares to go to bed. At his bedside he has a picture of his long-dead mother, and of the woman that gave him so much affection, and prepares himself to sleep like a decent person for the first time since he can remember: lying in bed, like everybody does, which for him means death by suffocation. He puts his pile of pillows aside and lies, being quietly received by his mother's face that calls him from the stars in the luminous night.

5- Dracula
Bram Stoker was born November 8, 1847. He had natal Nessus in 13,38 Gemini. "Dracula" was published in June, 1897, when transiting Pluto was exactly in 13 Gemini. Christopher Lee's Moon is in 16,07 Gemini, only 1,36 from Bram Stoker's Nessus when corrected for precession.

When "Dracula" was published in June, 1897, Saturn was in 25,27 Scorpio conjunct Uranus in 25,52 Scorpio. This conjunction was in exact quincux with Bram Stoker's natal Pluto in 25,34 Aries. Nessus was in 9,25 Pisces (calc. for 16 June), in conjunction with the position of Chiron at his death (April 20, 1912) in 9,49 Pisces.

When Bela Lugosi died, August 16, 1956, Saturn was in 26,24 Scorpio, making its second return to its conjunction with Uranus after the publication of Dracula. Following his expressed wishes, he was buried wearing the long black cloak he used in the 1931 movie. Venus was then in 8,47 Cancer, which is the position of Mars when Bram Stoker died (8,15 Cancer) and of Christopher Lee's Pluto (8,43 Cancer).

These are all significant relationships, but I have a "feeling" that Dracula and its kingdon of darkness is not Nessus but some transneptunian asteroid. Personally, I don't see Nessus as evil, but as hurt. However, some of this data suggests there is a "draculesque" aspect of Nessus when it is associated with Pluto, as in John Merrick, which I think has nothing to do with evil but with "horror".

6- Pornography
There are many "trespassings" in life that become monstrous, sexuality being at the center of most of them. Nessus, like all centaurs, has an obvious relationship with the breaking of tabus regarding sexuality.

The whole subject of sexuality as it is related to the centaurs deserves separate treatment, but, concomitant with "Dracula", we can note how sexuality is clearly involved in the dynamics of Nessus. We can take Larry Flynt, for example, who was born November 1st, 1942, at 9:10 PM CWT:

Nessus = 3,40 Taurus
Venus = 5,26 Scorpio
Pluto = 7,15 Leo
Sun = 9,02 Scorpio

There is a progression 3 - 5 - 7 - 9, from Nessus in the "lower region" to the Sun, passing through Venus and Pluto. Pluto is only 54' from the exact midpoint of the Sun/Nessus opposition. This is very descriptive, and makes evident an obvious connection of Nessus with pornography.

And Hugh Hefner? He was born April 9, 1926, at 16:20 CST. The positions are:

Pluto = 12,37 Cancer
Nessus = 15,57 Aries
Sun = 19,18 Aries

Here we have a progression again, 12-15-19, and again with the same planets, with the exception of Venus. This is interesting, because keeping Venus away from "draculesque" debasement characterizes his publication. Venus keeps her integrity by not being involved.

7- "Communion"
Whitley Strieber was born June 13th, 1945, at 4:45 a.m. CWT (+5h) in San Antonio Texas. The data is from Louis Rodden and it appears in Richard Nolle's Web site. He is well known as a popularizer of a series of nightly and intimate experiences that in the past would have been classified as "demoniac", much like classic succubi and incubi, and which are part of the lives of many people today that wouldn't talk about them except to their therapists. Today, these experiences belong to the literarature of ufos and alien abductions.

If the chart is drawn with the regular planets, they all appear between 1 Taurus and 3 Libra, less than half of the zodiac. If we add the four main asteroids, the situation doesn't change. "Lilith" is the mythological figure more clearly associated with these nightly "erotic" demons: asteroid 1182 Lilith is in 4,31 Libra, in conjunction with Neptune in 3,39 Libra, but this is far from the very intimate and terrifying experience that Strieber narrates in his book, "Communion". The same with the lunar apogee, or "Black Moon", which, if defined as the mean apogee, we find in Libra 23,40, in conjunction with Ceres in 24,49 Libra. The "true" apogee falls in 2,37 Scorpio, and has a better chance of being related to Strieber's experience: it is in opposition to Mars in 1,25 Taurus (12th house), and defines the "rim" of the bowl-type planetary pattern. Nevertheless, this is still not a good description of Strieber's story.

But if we begin to put the centaurs in the chart, the situation appears clearly: Nessus is in 7,54 Taurus, in conjunction with Venus in 6,50 Taurus, in the 12th house. This fits to perfection. It is also in square with Pluto in 8,31 Leo, conjunct the I.C. in 6,42 Leo. The Venus/Pluto very exact square, joined by the Moon in 3,33 Leo in applying conjunction to Pluto, could account for the erotic disfunction and appalling emotional charge coming from the Venus-in-the-12th type experience, but it doesn't tell us anything about the nature of the creature with whom he has such intimacy, nor Mars, being close by in 1,25 Taurus. All we would know from this is that there is something dark, hidden in the unconscious, in the past. But Nessus comes to clarify and confirm the story. (Incidentally, the position of Juno in 7,48 Leo adds further confirmation as to the "femaleness" of his companion and abductor.)

Pholus is apart from all the other 15 or so factors, making the chart a bucket and becoming its handle. No wonder, Pholus is such a wolf after all. That would be enough... but there is something more. Strieber's Sun is in 22,00 Gemini (2nd house), applying to a conjunction with 1995GO (8405 Aphareus? Teleboas?) in 24,49 Gemini, so that his destiny and production become "centaurean".

Coming from the Pluto regions, from the unknown, the centaurs are a good symbol for these ghastly visitors, with whom more and more people seem to have been in "communion". The film "Close Encounters" portrays this with a soft, childish, more digestable tone. The reality is very difficult to digest, more centaurean, like the wounds of rape. I don't pretend to give an explanation of them here. But it is no surprise to see how well the centaurs reflect the inner and outer phenomena associated with them.

8- Nightly Visitors
Centaurs such as Nessus are like owls. They are nocturnal hunters, big birds that watch at night. Like promiscuous and nocturnal thoughts: theirs is an intimate, secret and dangerous flight. The owl is like a majestic, powerful and inconfessable secret. She is the bird of clear and serene nights, like a wandering spirit or a sleeping soul. The intimate and invisible tabu, the nocturnal witness, the daring vigilant, guardian of secrets, witness of the mystery, in the danger and protection of the night.

Close encounters are often associated with wolves and owls by the unconscious mind:

<<I remember it was then that I told a story, which has remained in the back of my mind for years, of hearing a wolf howling and seeing one on the roadside. Even as I told that story I remember being a little confused. Since then it has lingered, the image of the wolf in the clearing and the sound of its voice echoing through the night. From that image there has flowed an intense life-long interest in wolves, which has grown into love for this wonderful species.
<<The image was central to "The Wolfen" and "Wolf of Shadows", and appears again in "The Wild", a novel I have written but had not yet published. <<I knew even as I spoke that we hadn't really seen a wolf, or heard one howl. Why then was I saying it? Where had it come from? Was it one of the screen memories which were so common with experiences with the visitors? My memory of the December 26 incident was at first blocked by the recollection of the owl. I saw an owl once before, too, during the events of 1968.
<<...
<<Perhaps visitors would naturally seek to the center of the soul and enter its reality, being too experienced to be interested in any but the deepest essence of our beings. Then they might well seem to be part of our mythology, part of the basis of being human.>>
(from Whitley Strieber, "Communion. A True Story", 1987)

9. Conclusion.
The most wonderful image about Nessus comes to me each time I read Josh Payne's words on how Frankenstein wanted to be loved by his creator. That sole image went beyond everything that has been said about Nessus, because it is human and alive, beyond the ugly monster of rationality trying to explain the depths of life, and it reached the infinite, taking me with it. Now I understand the process behind Nessus, and I don't reject it anymore. Now I can meet this guardian at the threshold, and see what it will say to me, about myself.

These are words by Peter T. Young (June 8, 1945 - June 19, 1998):

Did you hear him? Listen...
I hear an Angel deep off in the brush....
Howling at the moon...
The Wolf...
Did you ever think...
Of the Wolf as an Angel?
God sends Angels of every form...
Protecting all that lives...
And the Wolf...
He is an Angel too....
Standing tall and stern upon the rocky cliff...
Singing with his roaring voice...
To the Heavens...
Making a call....
To God...
This Wolf...
He is an Angel...
Do not fear him...
Listen to the beast speak...
Frightening...
Alarming...
But tame in spirit...
Fighting to survive...
Among all that threatens his being...
No harm to you...
No harm to me...
The Wolf.....fighting to be set free...

(PETER T. YOUNG)
( http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Nebula/4157/silverwings3.html)

posted July 29, 2010 11:03 AM            

NESSUS:

posted July 29, 2010 11:32 AM            

Yeah definitely, but ever since I've been through the drama, I've been extremely more aware, even without knowing astrology then, I was attracting good people to me because I was a better person.

You also talk about Ixion; when you find out more about it, can you tell me what it might mean to have it conjunct my Juno, Sappho, & Quaoar exact? Thanks alot!