posted August 03, 2010 03:02 PM            

They saw the Nessus myth beyond just being abuse.

They even noticed that through Nessus, Heracles became immortal.

Heracles went to Mount Olympus and was made a God, finally accepted by Hera, and was given Hebe for a wife. None of this would have happened without Nessus tricking Deijaneira into poisoning Heracles with the tunic dipped into Nessus' blood that was poisoned by the Hydra's blood.

Heracles wasn't an innocent man. In the myths, he killed his wife,Megaera and children in a fit of madness. For punishment to make up for his crime, he did the 12 labors which helped give him immortal fame.

In some ways, he was like the primary alpha male. He fathered many illegitimate children. He treated women like crap including killed a bunch of Amazons including the Queen Hippolyta. He had a very bad temper. If he didn't get his way, people were sorry. He challenged the immortals. He fought with Apollo because Heracles tried to take the oracle of Delphi because the oracle didn't answer him. He even threatened to shoot Helios, God of the Sun.

Of course, Heracles killed centaurs which were Nessus' brothers too.

if anything Nessus can be seen as not just revenge, but also karmic retribution. It could also be redemption and that is one of the keywords that Juan Revilla wrote for Nessus.

It's no coincidence that Nessus bridges the orbits of Saturn and Pluto. Nessus has Saturn-Pluto-like energy that has been observed by the astrologers that proposed the name for it. The Saturn/Pluto midpoint is said to be Nessus-sensitive. That means that an aspect to Saturn/Pluto midpoint is like an aspect to Nessus.

Heracles dipped his arrows into the Hydra's blood. He killed centaurs with those arrows. This was before his fateful encounter with Nessus.

another thing about the object Nessus

Nessus is the first object whose name was proposed by astrologers and accepted by astronomers. That's an important bridge between Astrology and Astronomy.

Therefore, Nessus can be a bridge between the physical and the metaphysical. Saturn is the planet associated with physical boundaries. Pluto is highly metaphysical with it orbiting beyond not only Saturn but also Neptune.

I don't see how Nessus is the bad one singled out for his attempt to rape Deijaneira.

It's not like Zeus/Jupiter didn't do his share of bad deeds. He actually raped Heracles' mother, Alcmene. He disguised himself as Alcmene's husband,Amphitrion.
Alcmene didn't know it was Zeus until she gave birth to twins. A couple of snakes went into their crib. One cowered and cried
but the other took a hold of the snakes and killed them. Obviously he was realized to be not a full human but son of a god - Zeus.

Zeus raped many women. Poseidon also committed rapes too like the rape of his sister,Demeter. Of course, the story of Hades raping Persephone is well known. Apollo raped a mortal woman that bore his son who ended up becoming a priest of Apollo. Rape of women was a common thing for men in Greek mythology. Of course, rape was a common thing for men throughout history. Women were not treated equally.

The centaurs weren't any different from the Gods in that way. Maybe the centaurs would be viewed differently because they were ugly looking creatures descended from the wicked Lapith King Ixion. They can only do wrong. However, the gods were beautiful looking creatures that "couldn't do any wrong" and they were "always right." If they were questioned and challenged, mortals were sorry. The story of Ixion is very hypocritical. Zeus punished Ixion for his sexual advances towards Hera who was constantly being cheated on by Zeus who was having many sexual relationships with women with many of them non-consensual.

I think there is another keyword for Nessus
scapegoat. It makes sense. Minorities are often used as scapegoats when things go wrong.

Also ugly looking people are often unfairly viewed and not given the benefit of the doubt. It's not the same for beautiful looking people.

What if Nessus is strong in the charts of people that aren't given a fair shake because they are minorities,nonconformists,ugly,and/or born in a low socioeconomic status?

That makes sense to me.

------------------
Raymond Andrews,
President,Executive Director of Developmental Neurodiversity Association
Supporting the Neurodiversity Movement

posted August 03, 2010 03:38 PM              

you+re totally right about Nessus,specially a nessus/asc conjunction in relationships.
my bf had that with a girl and it was the most draining,awful and violent thing for him-traumatized for Life if i wouldnt have appeared in his Life.

Nessus might not just be abuse,according to some astrologers,but most of the times...it is.
and to me its better to prevent,than to stand waiting to see if a person´s nessus on our chart will or it will not be that abusive,dark and traumatic...to what ive seen,nessus associated in hard aspect with personals,and with another dark archetype asteroids is allright..dangerous.

that s why IQ is trying to prevent future things like these,helping us see the patterns.

posted August 03, 2010 04:08 PM              

profound quote indeed.

PopCorn

only if you feel the need to.

its only human to defend our views,we+re just having an healthy discussion.it´s great to exercise our own intelligence so...it+s all welcome.

nobody here is into "seperation",as we all know we+re infact all United so...there is never a leader.

posted August 03, 2010 06:56 PM            

quote:

---

Deliverance, you have been able to utlilize Sun opp Nessus to instinctively identify potential abusers and hence you will stay safe.
Nessus rarely manifests as an abuser trait for ladies. Pluto conj Moon, Scorpio Moon square Mars/Saturn etc can indicate abusive women, but not in the same league as male abusers.

---

posted August 04, 2010 02:09 AM            

You have been mentally, physically and psychologically abused by your mom, and it is shown in your chart mainly through afflicted Neptune and afflicted Nessus, plus afflicted Pisces Moon.
It is funny that your own case only proves my theories more and more, and yet you vociferously disagree with me, and now want to associate minorities through Nessus? If anything it shows that minorities are still being or thinking that they are being abused in America. I really cannot comment on that but in India, yes, minorities are severely abused, and Nessus/Saturn combo would show that if ever we get the right chart for India.

Unless and until you discover spirituality, you cannot progress. Unless you discover your chakras, know about Universal God Spirit, Higher Self, about past life karmas, Soul Mission/Contracts, Christ Consciousness, Astral Plane, advanced Dimensions and so on, it is very difficult to adjust to abuse. Imposing skepticism on yourself is just denial to releasing abuse. If unchecked, you will only succeed in creating an Alter Personality for escapism.
I am actually worried for you.

Pure Neurodivergence: As in autistic savants, good human beings who do not harm anyone but have severe dyslexia. Aspergers, ADHD. But no adverse pyschological defects like deliberate substance abuse, tendency to physically abuse.
No morbidity, that goes into the mentally ill/borderline psychopath realms.
No Schizophrenia or MPD, that is a completely different topic.
We cannot mix chalk and cheese here. If you want to help Neurodivergents, you have to help them by showing their strengths and preventing harmful medicines prescribed against their will and knowledge. You cannot help them by holding a candle for the Ted Bundy type.

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http://tamsoft.co.in/articles.html

posted August 04, 2010 11:11 AM            

Nessus (7066/1993 HA2)

Orbital Period: 120.76 yrs
Distance at Perihelion (AU): 11.77 Perihelion: 21'23 Libra
Distance at Aphelion (AU): 37.09
Heliocentric Nodes: 1'18 Taurus/Scorpio
Size (km): approx. 75
Date of Discovery: 04/26/1993
Semi-Major Axis: 24.431 AU Eccentricity: 0.518
Inclination: 15.7 degrees

Nessus, on the other hand, does not exemplify the state of evolved consciousness of Chiron or Pholus. After the battle with the Lapiths where he killed many heroes, Nessus fled to the river Evenus (Euenus or
Lykormas) and assumed the charge as its ferryman. One day, Hercules and his wife, Deianira, approached Nessus, seeking safe passage. After a labored discussion and agreement on terms and fees, Hercules went on his own way. It was agreed Nessus would carry Deianira across the river. Overcome with the contact, the scent of the woman and raw lust, Nessus violated Deianira. Hercules turned about to witness the deed.
Instinctively, he fired one of his Chiron-poisoned arrows and struck Nessus. Realizing his wound was mortal, Nessus gave his blood and semen to Deianira, assuring her, that as a potion of love, it would guarantee Hercules’ faithfulness to her.

One day as Hercules departed for a tournament, Deianira gave him a cloak anointed with Nessus’ body fluids. When Hercules donned the article, he experienced excruciating pain and suffering induced by the Hydra contaminated blood and semen. He started to endure an agonizing death.
He raged through the land destroying everything in his path. He begged to die in dignity. The gods heard his plea. He was placed on a pyre of oak and olive branches. Elevated to Olympus, he was cared for by Hera, who had at his birth, sought to kill him with serpents.

On the mundane level, the Nessus myth clearly emerges ruling Sexually Transmitted Disease (STD), AIDS and those diseases transmitted by blood, such hepatitis in all its gradations.
Importantly, the dignity (implied by the appeal of Hercules) of an AIDS or
other terminal illness death must be preserved under the influence of Nessus’ demise. To some degree, bereavement, assisted suicide and euthanasia receive assignment to Nessus.

Regardless, Nessus rules bad blood. He appears in instances in which previously familiar people become mortal enemies over physical aspects of life. Commonly, the issues are the possession elements of love,
property and money. The perihelion of Nessus lies in Libra; it’s node stands firm in Taurus. Whenever issues of money, especially regarding estates, inheritances and taxes, come about, Nessus reigns. All bets are off. All is fair in love, war and the preservation of economic stability - the primary causes of conflict. The fight is dirty, underhanded and based upon the idea that someone either has or is taking away what one feels rightly belongs in her/his possession.

Similar issues emerge dealing with covetous relationships, extra-relational affairs and the entire process of relational wooing (often conducted with a flamboyant display of real world prowess).
Simply, Nessus lusts, covets, desires and yearns. Everyone possesses a natal Nessus. And everyone must process Nessus in their horoscope. Optimistically, he uproots log jams in the psyche that free the molten lava flow of passion for life. He seeks to motivate a person to organically achieve material well-being (just enough, not too little, nor not enough) and solid,
passionate, healthy love. With a sustained economic baseline and a healthy love life, for what could a person possibly lust?

Though the mythology of Nessus reads grim, his agenda is to heal the wounds surrounding the supercharged issues of money, love, sex and marriage. He seeks to overturn injustices of power and advantage. He heals the deep wounds by forging to the other side of the river - literally, moving on and letting go. Without revenge and retaliation, forgiveness is rendered to all parties.

Another interesting phenomenon emerges from this myth, and it’s not the first time we’ve heard
such news. Hercules and his lovely wife were both well aware of centaurs, their reputation and their proclivities. Yet, they consciously transacted to deal with this dubious creature, Nessus specifically, to aid their crossing to their next destination. Even with a subconscious or
unconscious knowing that the fork in the road now faced may be painful and arduous, one chooses to press on. Transformation is the choice. The accompanying ease or difficultly appears secondary to the process of ensuring that the necessary growth curve is followed.

A distinct mythic parallel draws to the legend of Pluto’s abduction of Persephone. One day, the fine Persephone picked flowers and Pluto abducted her. Was it by force, mind control or coercion? When the fair maiden’s mother found out about Persephone’s fate, she had to get in the mix to end her daughter’s undesirable relationship. A deal was created with Zeus so that Persephone could be set free. Now, Pluto did catch wind of this. And he knew if Persephone experienced any tangible quality of the Underworld, she could not be freed as the terms of the deal implied. He offered her seeds of the pomegranate. This act has become known as his deceptive trick. True, Pluto had information she did not have and he offered her the seeds to keep her in his company. Yet, Persephone chose to eat from the hand of her captor. No where is it
stated that these seeds were forced upon her. As with the Nessus story, it is critical to bear in attention that a conscious choice was made and enacted by the parties involved. In both myths, the feminine principle accepts what the captor (often seen as the transformational demands of life) offers.

------------------
Raymond Andrews,
President,Executive Director of Developmental Neurodiversity Association
Supporting the Neurodiversity Movement

posted August 04, 2010 11:16 AM            

Persephone, Hercules and Deianeira all submitted conscious choices in their participation of the difficult and Underworldly experiences they embraced. In the experiences of growth and transformation, all bets are off. When the choice is made for transformation, it remains a choice.
Abolishment of one’s sense of victimization, based upon recognition of choices made, relieves pain. Even if the choice made carries a cross of personal original sin, it was chosen. Recognizing choice to reduce the weak sense of being subjugated, restores potency. Without impotence, transformation can be magically invoked. That would be the blessing of Nessus.

This is not to negate clear situations of abduction and physical abuse. Nor does it condone the economic disadvantage of stockholders caused by avaricious corporate leaders and governmentally sanctioning oversight committees, committed to creating conscious oversights.
Not at all. The Nessus/Persephone considerations imply hard line transformational experiences in
which one agreed to participate in the journey regardless of the outcome. The resultant consciousness obtained possesses indescribable dimensions of wisdom and mastery through direct experience.

With Nessus integrated, one can hold space of others to go through the darkness. While not a fun job, it is an important job of priceless proportions. When working with others in those shadowridden sectors of life, trust is placed in one who has been there. Those guides of a conceptual or classroom background only realm of study need not apply.

When Nessus works in one’s chart, great generosity prevails in finance, the real world and in the unlimited sharing of love. Relational connections take on a soul-felt bond. Prosperity prevails in all aspects of life and in a more than needed measure. The mystical, inexplicable key to the lock
of abundance, gratitude and relational grace is lived full on, without an iota of ability to explain the process to another person.

Positive - generous, benevolent, compassionate, willing to lend a helping hand, cooperative, respectful of boundaries, aware of the power of life force energy, healthy use of sexual energy,ability to conduct a healing space for sexual difficulties

Negative - coveting, possessive, jealous, vengeful, manipulative, resorting to negative alchemy for personal gain, negative use of sexual energy

Mundane - bad blood between parties, feuds over money especially regarding relationship
dissolution, diseases transmitted by blood, transport ferries over water, potions, tonics and elixirs designed to cast spells, therapy specifically designed for healing sexual or monetary issues

Ceremonial - prosperity ceremonies, sexual healing rituals, ceremonies involving Earth-based
fertility invocations and procedures.

------------------
Raymond Andrews,
President,Executive Director of Developmental Neurodiversity Association
Supporting the Neurodiversity Movement

posted August 04, 2010 11:47 AM              

Negative - coveting, possessive, jealous, vengeful, manipulative, resorting to negative alchemy for personal gain, negative use of sexual energy

relationship wise,ive only seen these above to take place,and not the positive one. nataly wise...well...the charts ive seen,tjhat have Nessus very hardly aspected,or on the axis,always displayed more the negative traits,rather than the positive ones.

posted August 04, 2010 12:20 PM            

I have seen the positives of Nessus and not just its negatives. I am not being delusional nor ummm..."perversely ignorant."

I definitely have seen both the positives and negatives of Nessus in my mother who has very strong Nessus influence.

I can relate to the positives and negatives of Nessus in my own life with my own natal Nessus aspects.

Free will is the ultimate factor.

It's up to the individual to make the choice of how to use their Nessus energies
that's with any heavenly body object energies regardless if they are "afflicted" or not. I have seen people with soft aspects that misused their energies just like I have seen people with "afflictions" that use their energies well.

When it comes to Astrology, I think that it all comes down to what one believes and experiences. That varies in people.

There are many truths. There isn't just one truth. This can apply to many things in Astrology which has so many different systems and methods that include differences in how aspects are viewed and what objects are important to use in Astrology.

In a way, Astrology is like a religion. Our beliefs,views,opinions, perceptions,and what we think or "know" works tend to influence how we approach Astrology.

Like Steven Forrest said, the idea of a one true Astrology is a completely crazy and disruptive idea that can be blown out of the water in an hour.

From 46:07 in the video, he talks about the Tower of Babel problem in the astrological community. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWN8kk1uVhM

For me, my approach to Astrology has always been humanistic,psychological without emphasis on pre-judging. I don't want people judging me based on my chart, and so why in the world would I do that to others?

I am also open to the evolutionary,reincarnation,pastlife emphasis on Astrology but I still leave room for free will. I believe that we are given certain certain karmic lessons and that we have the free will to learn them or not. I don't believe that a natal chart is predeterministic just like I don't believe that being born with Down Syndrome means a life without meaning and success (Chris Burke for "Life Goes On" is a perfect example).

------------------
Raymond Andrews,
President,Executive Director of Developmental Neurodiversity Association
Supporting the Neurodiversity Movement

posted August 04, 2010 01:00 PM              

i was so into others charts,that i didnt see my own.

so Glaucus,i was wrong about that.im one of those that chose to act upon the positive aspects,even if my aspects are a bit wide,they are there.

posted August 04, 2010 01:55 PM            

I never denied that Nessus can be related to abuse including things like sexual abuse as well as danger. I recognize Nessus as an object that can mean "bad blood", and I see this so clearly in the life of my mother. The "bad blood" manifested both literally and figuratively in her life.

It's just that I have views that Nessus has positive traits too, and I am not alone in my views. Zane Stein, Philip Sedgwick, and Juan Revilla also share the same views as me. The astrologers (included Zane Stein) that named Nessus didn't just have bad views of Nessus when they named the object. They understood the object by its physical features and orbit, and then they came up with a great name that suited those things. They weren't astrologers that came up with keywords for it after the astronomers named it. They are the ones that proposed the names in the first place. Certainly, that should mean something.

Nessus is one of over 60 centaurs in our solar system that originate from the kuiper belt where Pluto and other transneptunians orbit. All the centaurs can have both positive and negative traits. They don't necessarily have to be about only the mythology of its name. It can be about its physical feature and orbit. Those things are what I strongly considered when I did posts about my views about Eris. I didn't just go by its name which some people didn't understand. I went by its physical features and orbit too.

I believe that not only the object Nessus is important in the chart, I believe that Nessus' nodes are also important. I believe that both heliocentric and geocentric Nessus Nodes are very relevant in Astrology. I am really not sure if we should be combining heliocentric nodes with geocentric objects. That's like mixing apples and oranges. I believe that it makes more sense to compare heliocentric nodes to only heliocentric objects and to compare geocentric nodes to only geocentric objects. However, that doesn't mean that mixing the coordinates don't work. Carl Payne Tobey, Dane Rudhyar, and Grant Lewi believed that the heliocentric node-geocentric object aspects were very relevant and showed great insights.

As of Today
(keep in mind that heliocentric nodes move up to a degree per century. Geocentric nodes of Jupiter and objects beyond move slower than outer planets,transneptunians.

Geocentric North Nessus Node in 3'05 Taurus
Geocentric South Nessus Node in 26'49 Libra

Heliocentric Nessus Nodes in 1'32 Taurus/Scorpio

------------------
Raymond Andrews,
President,Executive Director of Developmental Neurodiversity Association
Supporting the Neurodiversity Movement

posted August 05, 2010 01:18 AM            

I agree with you that Nessus has positive sides. He was a good ferry man till he saw Dejanira.

However, I hold the view that positive Nessus aspects are tapped into easily when Nessus makes positive aspects like sextiles and trines, or is unaspected to karmic objects. Negative aspects make the individual fall prey to choosing the dark traits. And beings of very high consciousness can overcome even this, thanks to very powerful positive aspects.

The great Edgar Cayce himself had Sun square Nessus exact. He could overcome it with aplomb as he had a treasure chest of positive aspects.

------------------
http://tamsoft.co.in/articles.html

posted August 06, 2010 04:54 AM            

Especially regarding NESSUS.

posted August 06, 2010 06:09 AM            

I was wondering about your Sun and Nessus opposing my Venus and squaring my Midheaven / Draco Karma.
How do you think does this play out?
I mean, It hink what I am asking is how do challenging Nessus-aspects to Venus or Dejanira play out in a connection, that is not romantic?
And why does your Nessus conjunct my Draco Juno exactly?
(Because they are both on 6-7 degrees Cancer - I get that. ).