posted March 10, 2016 11:57 AM              

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Originally posted by Liliya:
I almost chocked on my vegan pancake

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posted March 10, 2016 12:30 PM            

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Originally posted by Ami Anne:
This is not a comment to anyone or about any placement, just sharing some of my thoughts on the concept of empathy because it is an important one!

I had a discussion with a female sociopath. I get around in my travels

She wanted to have children and I told her that someone without empathy should never have children.

The reason is that the baby's cry is one that must be picked up at a FEELING level, not a thinking one.

The language of the child is in the empathetic range.

This girl said she THOUGHT she could be a great mother because of what she could bring to the child.

I think it is impossible without empathy

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Was that person formally diagnosed as a case of extreme Antisocial Personality Disorder by a psychiatrist? Because despite Astrology could show psychopathic tendencies of a person it's not scientifically safe to diagnose that.

I understood your point although I disagree with it. You suggested that Air Moons are more vulnerable to lack of empathy and that water Moons are more empathetic. I have Ascendant and Moon in Cancer as well but I don't think having the Moon in water signs creates more empathy necessarily. In my life, I dealed with 2 people that scared me to death with their coldness and lack of empathy and both have the Moon in water signs, so that's an oversimplification: the thing is way more complex than that.

Going even farther, Liz Greene wrote a book called the Dark of the Soul talking about psychopathology in Astrology. After many years of research, she noticed a pattern in horoscopes related to "lack of empathy" and she pointed out a list of things that together could indicate that in a chart. Some of those were the EMPHASIS ON WATER AND NOT THE LACK OF IT associated to a predominance of mutable signs (specially the Moon), stressful aspects beetween Moon-Saturn and also emphasis on the 12H/Pisces/ Neptune. Decided to test Greene's astrological theories, PhD Juan Ruiz conducted an astrological research developed through a traditional scientific method which confirmed her major hypotheses. Here is the link if you want to check it out. http://www.nvwoa.nl/pdfart/ruis/ruisen.pdf
The article is really long and full of statistical graphics which may be difficult for some people that are not used to scientifc reasearch to understand. Check the page 4 and the page 26 to see the hypotheses that were tested and the results found in the research.

I also disagree with your claim about the peregrine (unaspected) Moon. Unaspected planets become really powerful and can behave very much like a savage that grew up in an isolated island: almost unable to relate and integrate to rest of the chart. I'd say that having a complete unaspected planet can be a gift or a curse. What if the peregrine Moon is in Domicile in the 1H? An unaspected Cancer Moon, for example, can become all about what "she" feels and have an extreme difficulty in adjusting emotions to other aspects of the personality and also to interpersonal relationships. What if the dispositor of the peregrine Moon is debilitated or hammered by planets in poor condition? That's a point that I'm making because I see that negligence over and over again in Western Astrology: many people don't check the conditions of the dispositors and make judgements based only on sign/house placements and aspects. The dispositor controls the way a planet operates. So that plays a HUGE role in the planet's "behavior".

Not trying to create an argument here but we need to be very careful about those things cause they can lead to very wrong interpretations and because of situations like that, Astrology is pointed as a form of BS by many. I've been working in the academic/research field for almost 16 years and I hear this kind of crap almost all the time. There are many amazing astrologers out there but because of some others, Astrology gets hammered. Just sad...

posted March 10, 2016 05:56 PM            

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Originally posted by Julz87:
I'm a Cap Moon I have Little/No Empathy for the people whom have hurt me..Capricorn Moons don't forgive same goes for the Scorpio Moons we may say ok you're forgive but deep down its never the same - a grudge will always be there - this is worse for Scorp Moons...but we do feel deeply..I don't think there's such thing as a Little/No Empathy Moon. We all feel in different ways.

I dated a Aries with Libra Moon - that man was all feels his Moon conjuncted my AC exact. he was a bit too emphatic/emotional for my taste as a Cap Moon.

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This is different, my Friend.

Empathy is an emotional response.

It is at the feeling level.

One cannot choose to have empathy.

It is a RESPONSE, not a thought.

Some people have more. Some people have less.

What you are talking about is being hurt and shutting down.

You are talking about amputating people who have betrayed you, as I understand it.

That is different than empathy.

As a Cancer Moon, if someone betrays me enough, I amputate.

If they betray me more than enough, they live to regret it lol

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posted March 10, 2016 06:32 PM            

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Originally posted by Ami Anne:

As a Cancer Moon, if someone betrays me enough, I amputate.

Totally acceptable. It's a natural defense mechanism of arthropods (including the crab), in fact, those living beings can even amputate their own limbs when severely injured in order to escape and survive. http://youtu.be/v241TF-cSzU (at 0:52)

If they betray me more than enough, they live to regret it lol

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Unacceptable from a Christian perspective. And no, I'm not being judgmental here; it's written in the Bible: "Then Peter came to Jesus and asked, 'Lord, how many times shall I forgive my brother who sins against me? Up to seven times?' and Jesus says to him, 'I say to you not up to seven times but up to seventy times seven'.

I never found any Bible verse who supported revenge or a sense of satisfaction before other people's misery (yes, I've read the Bible although I don't entitle myself as an official Christian).

I'm a very spiritual person and although I don't follow any religion, I respect all of them. But if there's something I definitely have zero respect for is hypocrisy.

Just horrible and pitiful to read that unnecessary comment. That's gross passive aggressive behavior by far... thank God, I don't have an "almost unaspected" Cancer Moon. And mine is in the 1H so I can't even fake what I feel, my true self is evident, LMAO.

posted March 10, 2016 10:04 PM            

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Originally posted by Ami Anne:
This is different, my Friend.

Empathy is an emotional response.

It is at the feeling level.

One cannot choose to have empathy.

It is a RESPONSE, not a thought.

Some people have more. Some people have less.

What you are talking about is being hurt and shutting down.

You are talking about amputating people who have betrayed you, as I understand it.

That is different than empathy.

As a Cancer Moon, if someone betrays me enough, I amputate.

If they betray me more than enough, they live to regret it lol

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I'll disagree right here. As much as I can like discussing with you Ami, your way of considering your own opinion and views of matter as rock-hard facts is truly getting on my nerves.
I shouldn't throw oil on the fire, but I just can't help it. You have this nasty way of being passive-aggressive with people, being so condescending and putting yourself on a pedestal while casting judgmental stereotypes at others you don't feel deserves your recognition.
Yet you dare call yourself empathetic? How many people can you rile up just to satisfy your own ego? Your own acts contradicts your say. You call yourself empathetic because of your moon, I dare say this post is just a blatant view of how little empathy you can show others.

Another note, you call empathy a feeling response and not a thought.
Many researches, in fact, disagree with that.

They studied extreme cases of ASPD (namely psychopath) because of their lack of empathy at an unconscious level.
Those people categorized as having an Anti-Social Personality Disorder are traditionally characterized as manipulative individuals who lack the capacity for empathy.
I won't stretch ASPD disorder, it has already been detailed.
The research had a control group (non ASPD people) and another group composed of what we know as psychopath, those who showed an utter lack of empathy.

Before pursuing with the results, I need to clarify a few things.

Feeling for another person who is suffering is the form of empathy most often invoked to explain the term itself, but it is composed of at least 3 others concepts: (there's 8 in total, but I don't remember the others):
1. Knowing what the other is thinking/feeling i.e: his internal state.
2. Coming to feel as another person feels
3. Adopting the posture or matching the neural responses of an observed person.

When healthy people see others perform an action, there's an area of their brain being activated called "mirror neuron system." These mirror neurons are located in the brain's area dedicated to movement and memory (medial frontal cortex and medial temporal cortex) and they help us interpreting the actions of others. The interesting part is that these neurons activate the same way when we recreate the action ourselves. It is important to note that they also activates upon receiving emotional response, such as pain or pleasure.
This mirror system is an incredibly important tool in our society. When we witness someone feeling distressed, the mirror system activates and produce a similar answer to what we see.
In short, we become distressed upon seeing someone in distress. This can produce motivation to help others, not to relieve his distress, but to relieve one's own distress.

To go back on the experimentation itself, they placed the control group and psychopaths into MRI scanner and showed a movie depicting two hands interaction in either a loving or a painful way (stroking or hitting).
At first, both groups simply watched the movie and then the researchers instructed the participant to watch the movies again and attempt to empathize twith the subjects in the movies.
The researchers also performed the same hand actions on both group's own hands, to see whether it activated the same brain areas as watching the movie did before comparing the brain activity of both group together.
They looked at three areas of the brain: premotor system (movements), somatosensory system (feelings of pain) and insula (emotional pain).
The first time the psychopath watched the movie, they showed decreased activity in these areas compared with the control group, which support the theory that psychopath feels less empathy toward others.

However, surprisingly, when the psychopath were instructed to try to empathize while watching the videos, their brains showed the [b­] SAME [/b] level of activity in these brain areas as the control group.

Other studies were done and they ended with similar results.
Empathy seems to be much less of an uncounscious response than previously thoughts. Rather, most scientists are now viewing the idea that empathy is an on/off switch that healthy people have it on by default and are hardly capable of turning it off, whereas psychopaths and other less empathetic individuals have their switched turned to off and they can turn it on depending on the situation warranting it. Consciously.
As far as choosing to have empathy or not... I think that come close to it, wouldn't you think?
Oh and the institute conducting this precise research?
Royal Netherlands Academy of Arts and Science. They did receive numerous prizes for their finding in theoretical physics, neuroscience and microbiology (amongst other things).

So yeah, Ami. Just don't put yourself on a pedestal and state your past, experiences and thoughts as hard-on facts, you're not impressing anyone.

posted March 10, 2016 10:16 PM            

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Originally posted by Elysia:

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posted March 10, 2016 10:53 PM              

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Originally posted by diamondbaby:
In my opinion Moon in Air signs

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posted March 10, 2016 10:58 PM            

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Originally posted by bonsai:
My moon is in Gemini and I can have quite a lot of empathy. Sometimes I can feel guilty even when there's no reason for me to feel guilty. On the other hand sometimes I can be unsympathetic towards someone and very cold if I believe they are being ridiculous or have slighted me in some way. Might be the duality aspect.

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Me, too. Moon conjunct Venus in Gemini. I'm very rarely cold, and have a lot of empathy - although not as much as I used to, thanks to the happenings in recent years.

posted March 10, 2016 11:06 PM              

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Originally posted by teasel:

I don't like it when people turn cold. I don't like it when I'm feeling cold towards someone either.

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posted March 10, 2016 11:11 PM            

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Originally posted by teasel:
This reminds me of someone I used to know!! I miss her. She was always coming out with things like this - and I associate that line with her all the time.

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posted March 10, 2016 11:54 PM            

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Originally posted by Faith:
T?

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No, but I miss her too! I really wish she'd check in, either by email, or here.

posted March 11, 2016 12:30 AM            

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Originally posted by bonsai:
My moon is in Gemini and I can have quite a lot of empathy. Sometimes I can feel guilty even when there's no reason for me to feel guilty. On the other hand sometimes I can be unsympathetic towards someone and very cold if I believe they are being ridiculous or have slighted me in some way. Might be the duality aspect.

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Me too.

I'm always apologizing for things that probably don't require an apology. But if it's something that's causes immense pain to me, it's all but impossible to get me to be in the same room as that person.

posted March 11, 2016 07:11 AM            

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posted March 11, 2016 07:24 AM            

I will take my dog. She is very smart--a Yorkie. She can figure things out well. That would be her reasoning/her thinking.

However, if I cry, she runs to me, looks up at me with beautiful, caring eyes and wants to come on my lap and kiss me.

That is empathy. It is a FEELING response to a situation of another person/creature in pain.

Empathy exists on a spectrum from no empathy to high empathy,such as do all traits as shown by the Bell Curve.

If someone does not have high empathy, it does not mean they are "bad"

That would be the same as saying that if someone were not intelligent, he was "bad"

I think the chart can show empathy and the moon is the primary factor, but not the entire story.

At any rate, the point of Astrology is self acceptance and people need to learn to accept themselves, in my opinion.

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posted March 11, 2016 07:43 AM              

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Originally posted by teasel:
This reminds me of someone I used to know!! I miss her. She was always coming out with things like this - and I associate that line with her all the time.

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posted March 11, 2016 08:34 AM            

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Originally posted by Ami Anne:
YES, totally. Lack of water is a huge key. That would prolly be the first thing to look for this. This Libra Moon has one water planet. I think she was saved from being a sociopath from the one water Jupiter but she is close.

What do you all think of Jupiter in terms of empathy? I think it is a big player and underrated in terms of empathy indications

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I've never read so much crap, lol! You definitely need to read, study more to get better informed and really learn Astrology because what you're doing here is something else. You're honestly embarrasing yourself. I'd never trust you as an astrologer and I'm sure many here think the same. I'm just having balls to tell you straight. I can't watch you doing such a bizarre comment like that and stay quiet, lol!

"Lack of water is a huge key. That would prolly be the first thing to look for this.

Geeeez, Liz Greene and other renowned astrologers would roll in the floor laughing if they could read your BS. My goodness, I can't stop laughing and shake my head by watching more and more shi...t coming out from your fingers.

"I think she was saved from being a sociopath from the one water Jupiter but she is close."

That's the most ridiculous pathethic thing ever, LMAO! In fact, you better watch out your words or you can end up getting in serious trouble by calling people psyhcopaths without any psychiatric diagnosis to support your "lalaland" theories.

posted March 12, 2016 04:22 PM            

He was sensitive about himself i.e. wanting everyone to understand him and be sensitive of his constant moods and he had no insight at all into just how cold and cruel he was. It was almost as if the world existed just to suit his needs.

posted March 12, 2016 06:07 PM            

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Originally posted by Mergoatsun:
I didn't go through all the pages of your thread, but I wanted to add this point if no one has: pluto square mars or vice versa. This person will manipulate you or try to possess you no matter how the other person feels. They don't care, they just want to own.

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Great report, M. Thank!

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posted March 12, 2016 06:08 PM            

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Originally posted by AmelieRose81:
One of the most insensitive, inconsiderate people I have ever met is a Scorpio Sun & Venus, Capricorn Moon.

He was sensitive about himself i.e. wanting everyone to understand him and be sensitive of his constant moods and he had no insight at all into just how cold and cruel he was. It was almost as if the world existed just to suit his needs.

Another man I was involved with was a Pisces Sun, Venus and Mars. Aquarius Moon and Mercury. Again, self serving, inconsiderate and horribly moody. Water is sensitive but only to themselves. They dont seem to care or notice how their behavior affects others.

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Thanks for the insights, A! xx

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posted March 13, 2016 05:22 PM            

But with that being said, it's mostly older and mature people. And they also seem to be very "distant" in the way they handle emotions. It's not like they don't have any, but maybe they are just a bit more... practical and logical about it.

But to be honest, the only psychopaths I've ever experienced, all had libra in their chart. Libra suns or libra moons. They were all super social, calculated and over-egoistically. They saw other people as just a part of their game... kinda scary, because often libra are natural talents in manipulating, more so than geminis...