posted March 27, 2015 09:58 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by next to neptune:
I also think some of the responsibility should go to his work environment. I know many pilots work too hard, never get breaks and some of the earlier information also suggest that he had a break down because of his WORK, among other things... I personally think it must be multible factors, but his work environment must definitely also has something to do with it, and it doesn't get any focus at all! Which is wrong! We should also be able to discuss whether did guy was under too much pressure

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posted March 27, 2015 10:45 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by next to neptune:
I also think some of the responsibility should go to his work environment. I know many pilots work too hard, never get breaks and some of the earlier information also suggest that he had a break down because of his WORK, among other things... I personally think it must be multible factors, but his work environment must definitely also has something to do with it, and it doesn't get any focus at all! Which is wrong! We should also be able to discuss whether did guy was under too much pressure

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Exactly what I was trying to convey here as well. Off course the company will try to deflect responsibility. But they did recruit him for the job in the first place...they did set the environment in which the employees worked. Not everyone can be a pilot, one of my friend is pilot. He works way too much...but he's very balanced and absolutely loves his job.

posted March 27, 2015 10:45 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Vajra:
Well, terrorism is different from pilot suicide IMO because terrorist acts are usually committed for some ulterior, most often a political goal, and usually there's a group behind it that aims to strike terror into the minds of people at large. The crime is thus a means to a political end, and the goal is to bring about some sort of change in society or government, which is why the exact same act/group can sometimes found to be labelled "terrorist" or "freedom fight(ers)" depending on the viewpoint of the observer (as was the case with Nelson Mandela, for instance.) Obviously 9-11, for which Al Qaeda has publicly claimed responsibility, was not a typical case of pilot suicide and that's why it's not included on that list I linked.

Compared with this, in cases such as the most recent pilot suicide, the guy seems more like a lone amok runner who commited the crime presumably due to a personal psychological issue, and although his motives are as yet unknown, they certainly don't seem in any way political (and he was not a Muslim either); like a typical amok runner, his seems more like a case of wanting to "punish" others for his grievances and wanting to draw attention to himself, not to an abstract cause (this at least was an explanation given by a psychiatrist interviewed in the news, who could of course only speculate but this is what's often behind amok runs, a narcissict personality who snaps and given the earlier psychological problems of the pilot on record such an explanation looks not too unlikely here although other psychiatric conditions could also be able to cause such behavior in a person).

Non-politically motivated pilot suicide reminds me of crimes such as a nurse or doctor who silently poisons critically ill patients one after the other - there were several such cases recently discovered and in one current case in Germany there were perhaps over a hundred victims. The common thread is that someone in a position of authority misuses their power over others' lives due to a psychological issue. Apparently some who factually have a hold over other people's life and safety sometimes snap, and I'd be interested to look into astrology as to why that happens, to whom and when. On that list in the link in my first post are several cases which are due to personal problems of the pilot - divorce comes up and that was also named as a factor in the Malaysian case. The question is then why the criminals choose to kill people who have nothing to do with it.

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Bingo!
I haven't read the rest of the thread yet and it's too soon to analyze this particular case yet (ongoing investigation) but this seems to be a different pathology than suicidal behavior - usually having severe depression at its core (either chronic, or "accidental" as in apparently Robin Williams's case: other illness or drug induced).

Very shortly put, depression causes a particular chemical imbalance in the brain, creating an uncontrollable "illusion"of hopelessness, thus leading to unbearable moral and psychological pain. But the destructive tendencies are almost exclusively directed towards the self, and defined by what can be found for instance in Dalida's suicide note "please forgive me, I can't stand myself anymore". There is no desire to take others with you, the rate of exo-violence is very low.

But in these cases, IMO, what we're dealing with is what you describe here, a pathological core of narcissism and megalomania, a drive for power, a power-powerlessness dance inside the psyche. Of course, I'm not trying to describe people as "monsters" here, just a possible pathology. It's basically a psychopathic core, IMO, either psychotic or personality-wise. If we're talking personality pathology, that would give a huge, abnormal ego. This pathology leads some of these people to sometimes commit mass murder+suicide as their only possible act to reach power through "fame". It can be consciously or unconsciously. Any leading position, especially one in which other people's lives are in your hand - such as a nurse or pilot - may attract these people. The disease itself is actually the inner fight going on inside the individual between their true nature and the superego, until they "snap" as you say (the snap is usually triggered by a traumatic life event, in this case it appears to be the breakup with the girlfriend, a huge blow to the ego of such a person, let's remember it triggered Ted Bundy's "activity" as well). It's basically an ego mass murder. I'll repeat, I am not necessarily talking about this case due to lack of sufficient information, but the profile of such an act is not suicidal at its core, IMO. It's criminal; redirected, due to superego's supervision, but still criminal.

I wouldn't include the 9/11 terrorist acts here and terrorism, since, at least in the case of "cause"/religion terrorism, death (killing+suicide) has a totally different meaning, both the killing and the suicide are perceived (with this distorted view) as a "sacrifice for the cause", it is considered both the victims and the perpetrator are "sacrificing themselves" "being sacrificed" for the "cause" (collateral damage). Different psychology.

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I seem to have loved you in numberless forms...

posted March 27, 2015 11:04 AM            

EDIT: it's interesting, he has no significant tight transits, apart from Sun on NN (sometimes happening when someone dies), but quite far, separating, and the Merc/Chiron sq, still far from the stellium though

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I seem to have loved you in numberless forms...

posted March 27, 2015 11:54 AM            

Tr Siva on 11.3 Aquarius square n Pluto on 11.3 Scorpio
Tr Dejanira on 12.3 Aquarius square n Pluto on 11.3 Scorpio as well

Tr Lucifer on 25.0 Gemini conjunct n Chiron on 26.0 Gemini, opposing Sun on the GC, and Uranus of course

Tr Sekhmet on 17.2 Aquarius r square Mars on 15.9 Scorpio

Tr Ixion stationary retrograde on 23.2 Sagittarius conjunct Saturn on 23.5 Sag and Mercury on 23.1 Sag

Tr Pholus on 26.01 Sag conjunct Sun on 26 Sag and Uranus on 26.5 Sag

Tr Toro on 22.2 Sag conjunct Mercury on 23.1 Sag and Saturn on 23.5 Sag

------------------------------------------

Generally speaking such highly condensed and focused charts can be quite challenging, as transits will hit everything at the same time, after long periods of "silence", and sometimes that means people had no chance to adapt to these external influences gradually and will "snap".
This one is especially challenging as Saturn and Uranus are pulling into different directions.

Of course noone HAS to snap like that, luckily most people learn to deal with their "demons".

The tragedy is he didn`t.

I am not going to get too involved in the discussion, but I really agreed with most of some of the posts, especially of you, Barbiegirl, Vajra, BellaFenice and Leeloo.

EDIT:
Also

Tr ADMETOS on 27.5 Taurus possibly opposing Moon

Tr POSEIDON on 11.4 Scorpio conjunct Pluto

Tr PHAETON on 25.3 Pisces square Sun-Mercury-Saturn-Uranus and Chiron

posted March 27, 2015 12:14 PM            

Brilliant observation, Ceri

posted March 27, 2015 12:24 PM            

Nevertheless I can`t help but notice there was a transiting T-square of

Lucifer opposing Pholus square Phaeton

(this made me actually quite nervous in terms of my upcoming flight to Cornwall, but by next week Phaeton will be far out of orb, on 5 Aries, so it seems PHaeton is a very quickly moving asteroid).

Itīs especially chilling to see how much this aligned with his natal chart.

posted March 27, 2015 12:26 PM            

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posted March 27, 2015 12:31 PM            

(and I am not convinced it was a terroristic act. I think we are crying: "Terrorist" almost by default in present day.

Does it make the action any less horrible, if it was being done out of mental illness?

No, it doesn`t. The people are still dead. )

posted March 27, 2015 01:04 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Ceridwen:
yes I saew Atropos as well, I had thought she would show up more prominently, as well as Anubis.

Nevertheless I can`t help but notice there was a transiting T-square of

Lucifer opposing Pholus square Phaeton

(this made me actually quite nervous in terms of my upcoming flight to Cornwall, but by next week Phaeton will be far out of orb, on 5 Aries, so it seems PHaeton is a very quickly moving asteroid).

Itīs especially chilling to see how much this aligned with his natal chart.

(on the other hand since my birthday is the 18th december as well, it also aligns with my Sun-Mercury-conjunction and I have not brought death and destructions to hundreds of people - cause honestly we have to include the mourning relatives as well, whose life have been so painfully affected by this. and neither has Mr Sag, who has his Sun right there as well together with Moon and MC, squared by Saturn. So it cannot be this position alone. Well maybe it was worse in this instance because it was afflicted by Saturn AND Uranus and all triggered at the same time in the same way).

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Wow, impressive T/square

posted March 27, 2015 01:08 PM              

quote:

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Originally posted by midnightvenus:
Why do people think people can only commit crimes if they have mental illnesses?
That is false.

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I agree that such people may not always have a serious mental illness but they aren't sane. Sane people don't commit crime for the sake of commiting crime. There is a deep rooted mental problem that drives people to do so. I didn't say mental illnesses but a deep rooted drive, desire that pushes them to commit crimes. There's something wrong with the thinking process of the individual. Anger and passion amongst many others are what drive the individual into thinking that it's okay to commit whatever it is they're commiting. Happy people don't go taking things that don't belong to them because they're happy, they aren't commiting murders for the sake of sharing how happy they are inside. Clouded, fogged individuals who aren't all together do.

quote:

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Some perfectly healthy people just think they're entitled to everything, including other people's lives.
The thing is that mental illnesses are blamed so people don't have to dig deeper into "why"

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Disagree. Perfectly healthy, meaning people with perfect sense, would never do such things. If there is a case in which a perfectly sensible person murdered, raped, attacked, robbed another individual then I'd like to see that.

posted March 27, 2015 01:19 PM            

"I agree that such people may not always have a serious mental illness but they aren't sane. Sane people don't commit crime for the sake of commiting crime. There is a deep rooted mental problem that drives people to do so. I didn't say mental illnesses but a deep rooted drive, desire that pushes them to commit crimes. There's something wrong with the thinking process of the individual."

This is exactly what I wanted to write, but didn`t, for some reason.

posted March 27, 2015 01:36 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Ceridwen:
Outcome is pretty much the same in this instance.

(and I am not convinced it was a terroristic act. I think we are crying: "Terrorist" almost by default in present day.

Does it make the action any less horrible, if it was being done out of mental illness?

No, it doesn`t. The people are still dead. )

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It matters, so we can stop future terrorist attacks by being wise

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posted March 27, 2015 02:02 PM            

Except they do.
This isn't about in/sanity.
This is about social conditioning.
We live in a patriarchal, capitalist, white supremacist, ableist society.
The minute oppressors learn about their power, they're conditioned to victimize people because, in their eyes, THEY CAN.
That's just how it is.
Saying someone has to be "crazy" to arm other people is ableist.
Society has to take responsability for what is teached.

Have you ever been depressed? Ever feel so low that killing or harming yourself was the answer to finally escaping the darkness that constantly clouds your mind? Depression is scary. It has the ability to push people into doing things they'd never imagined doing. Nothing makes sense to depressed people, they're helpless and unable to think about anything good. It saddens me that mental illnesses are treated and talked about so poorly by too many that have either never experienced them or are too afraid to get themselves treated."

posted March 27, 2015 02:19 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Barbiegirl19:
Well, I agree to disagree. I don't want to derail the thread any further than I already have.

We live in a world full of racists pointing the finger at other racists. If we stopped making everything color or gender based first, we'd be steps closer to fixing the many other problems.

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AMEN. In fact, this calls for a song because what is a Forum without music

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posted March 27, 2015 02:20 PM            

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posted March 27, 2015 02:22 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Barbiegirl19:
Well, I agree to disagree. I don't want to derail the thread any further than I already have.

We live in a world full of racists pointing the finger at other racists. If we stopped making everything color or gender based first, we'd be steps closer to fixing the many other problems.

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posted March 27, 2015 02:34 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Ami Anne:
You have to separate mental illness from a person doing terrorism from a religious ideology. If not, you will have a mush here.

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RELIGION IS NOT INVOLVED IN THIS CASE. No report has even hinted at it, and the issue is more about his mental health and whether he truly had enough help. Please take your hateful bigotry somewhere else. If a Christian pilot downed the plane I wouldn't be hearing a peep out of you crying terrorism.

Everyone else is contributing great astrological analysis and you keep running in here derailing the thread trying to pin this on Islamic culture. There is much to be discussed on mental health, pilot exhaustion and overworking, and of course the astrology behind it.

posted March 27, 2015 02:37 PM            

Good words, my Friend, Try to follow them, Bella, if you would. I know people would appreciate it. Thank you so very much, Bella

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posted March 27, 2015 03:23 PM            

Please can you post any link or source pointing to this being a terrorist act, or in any shape or form connected to the co-pilot's religion?

You mentioned that if we look into his background we'll find a connection to terrorism, however I haven't found anything and I'm very good at doing research. I haven't come across a single confirmation as to what the person's religion actually is, let alone whether it played any role in the crash.

One single website, out of hundreds, states he's "a convert to Islam", but the same website has an article about Putin and Obama collectively hiding a secret about aliens, and the UK becoming a Muslim country in the next decade.

Please could you point me to where you're looking.