posted June 06, 2015 05:08 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Ceridwen:
Faith,

I am the first to understand a little over-dramatizing for effect (of course there is a core of truth in all we say, but hey, if all world`s a stage, then we sure can be a little theatrical now and then; that`s fun - well Jupiter in 3rd house, maybe just my personal idea of fun).

Pluto - like all of the outers- can be a real pain in the a**, I agree with that.
But like with the human pain in the a** in my life (or brushing my life occasionally) would I want to miss him, despite all of the drama and mess and havoc they both create (Pluto and him)?

No, and partly the reason for this is that I know that I need these experiences, especially if getting too complacent, I need being pinched and pushed out of my comfort zone (okay, more like dragged out of there kicking and biting and screaming).
And on some weird level it feels satisfying, because I know that this is what I need, even though I have occasionally wished for a less complicated personality or life or whatever that is.

But jeez, how boring would that be!
This intensity and cathartic cycles are just a part of me and my life, and no, I wouldn`t want to miss them,e vent hough going through them, I surely moan about them and wish them to the underworld with Pluto.

---

So do I need the push, at times. I'm usually okay with Uranus (although just using the word creates awkward sounding statements.

To the person who mentioned people needing things to be bright and shiny all the time - I don't, but I can't take any more Pluto right now (and yet I'll have to).

I'm actually feeling irritated and depressed over the fact that my life has been derailed more than once, by my sister - who was actually trying to make sure I was not only unhappy, but would vanish in some way. Before that, it was trouble caused by her husband for years, and my own anxiety over being moved so damned often, away from my friends. And we landed in f'king Ohio, and never left. Whenever I tried for more, tried to have my own life, I was knocked over.

posted June 06, 2015 06:37 PM            

Pluto requires a lot of purging and that's not easy.

posted June 06, 2015 07:48 PM            

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posted June 06, 2015 09:33 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by teasel:
I learned some lessons a long time ago. I was punished by others, when I wasn't the problem. Also, there are people who don't get stronger, and just keep getting hit. The worst is when people know it, and add to it.

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Hi Teasel,

My response was for Faith, whose posts I'm somewhat familiar to on LL.

posted June 07, 2015 02:10 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by the89freespirit:
Sorry, Faith, I love Pluto, too!

Pluto square Sun, conjunct Moon and Midheaven
Mercury, Venus, Mars in the 8th

I'm not uncomfortable with Pluto. I think, if anything, strong Pluto influence in a birth chart gives a person a high TOLERANCE of discomfort. Things that freak other people out or make them uneasy don't really bother me.

It always kind of surprises me, actually, when people describe a certain topic or situation as "scary" or "depressing." Some people just want everything to be light and bright, every moment of the day, and start squirming and shrinking when things get hard-hitting and nitty-gritty. But, Pluto allows me to handle that. To certain people, if it's not something you can laugh about or have fun with, they have no idea what to do or say. I'm not like that and I know how resourceful that makes me.

I wouldn't give up Pluto for anything and the thing is that I'd never be able to, even if I wanted to! The more you see Pluto as your friend, the more he'll enrich you and benefit you. The more you see him as your enemy who makes your living so tormented and difficult, the more that'll be true.

---

posted June 07, 2015 03:48 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by theunknown:
Hi Teasel,

My response was for Faith, whose posts I'm somewhat familiar to on LL.

I hope you didn't interpret it as me telling you to get your act together. I don't know your situation and I wouldn't dare to say that.

---

I didn't. Sometimes people just make it sound so easy - I can't be drowning like that. I need the fresh air. I've dealt with violence, obsession (others', and my own), and so on. I don't want any more of it, and death - don't get me started. I dread certain things, and I can't function when I'm in that state.

posted June 07, 2015 04:47 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Faith:
Whoa to your placements

Oh yes I keep meaning to say, my Pluto is on the solstice point of my moon...pretty sure that is significant, but I don't have a clear idea of how it works.

---

Well, I'm of the impression that we can create a self.

Although there's some thinking that there is also a "pure" self.

It seems that we can strip back experience and discover a self, or we can integrate experience and create a self.
Or we can accept our influences from life as a self.

posted June 07, 2015 05:04 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Violets:
Nevermind, I'm not reading through the comments. I glanced through the first page. I'm simply going to comment on Pluto transits and my comfort with them. Hi, Faith!

---

Violets! Bummed that I missed you earlier!

quote:

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Some moments every day I get this feeling that I'm thinking of as "the Pluto feeling" where the bottom seems to drop out from under me, and I know I have to operate from a gut level. Almost like I get so uncomfortable if I don't "obey" that feeling, I can't stand it. So I have no choice. Though...yes, it's almost weirdly comforting to have a guide...like a sixth sense coming alive.

---

Yes- that is what I was thinking of today! Do you think it is partially a Pisces Moon thing, feeling receptive to the needed changes?

I agree with T as well, she is gone and not here to defend herself. Regardless of how you feel about someone on LL, let them rest in peace if they have moved on.

quote:

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Well I haven`t read your convos I think, but it surprised me to read it, cause to me you never came across as mean or sarcastic or passive-aggressive.

I always experience you in our talks as supportive and downright enthusiastic, and also thoughtful and reflective and very honest.

---

I've also felt this way when having conversations with Faith. I think the key thing here is tone and word choice. We can't pick up body language on the Internet, so someone's excessive need to bold words might be to emphasize a particular point, whereas others is an attention seeking tactic for validation/intimidation. People prefer different modalities of speaking so it is no surprise we all get misinterpreted all of the time.

quote:

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Originally posted by theunknown:
The thing about pluto and saturn is that life doesn't get better, you just get stronger. And if you have sun square pluto, I'm sure you yourself subconsciously or consciously want to test yourself and play with bigger fires. You may cry after getting burnt but next time around, you keep coming back

---

posted June 07, 2015 08:45 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by teasel:
Sometimes people just make it sound so easy - I can't be drowning like that. I need the fresh air. I've dealt with violence, obsession (others', and my own), and so on. I don't want any more of it, and death - don't get me started. I dread certain things, and I can't function when I'm in that state.

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-- Same here.

quote:

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Originally posted by teasel:
one thing I love about astrology, and life, is that we all balance each other. We have our own strengths and weaknesses, and if we're lucky, when we land in unfamiliar territory, we will find a friendly face or two, to help us navigate through it.

---

posted June 07, 2015 09:09 AM            

~edits list of Pluto's damages

posted June 07, 2015 09:23 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by whaaat:
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

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posted June 07, 2015 09:26 AM            

Sun Trine Pluto
Moon conjunct Pluto
Venus square Pluto
Mars trine Pluto
Neptune sextile Pluto

The negative aspects are evenly well balanced with the positive ones. Phew! Thank you Universe.. you totally got my back on this one!

posted June 07, 2015 09:28 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by theunknown:

The thing about pluto and saturn is that life doesn't get better, you just get stronger. And if you have sun square pluto, I'm sure you yourself subconsciously or consciously want to test yourself and play with bigger fires. You may cry after getting burnt but next time around, you keep coming back

---

I guess that is accurate, if we're talking about things I have control over. The other side to Pluto, I think, is what you have NO control over. It's how you face the abyss.

posted June 07, 2015 09:37 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by BellaFenice:
Yes- that is what I was thinking of today! Do you think it is partially a Pisces Moon thing, feeling receptive to the needed changes?

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Not sure, but if you feel the same way I do, and we have the same moon sign, that's one little bit of evidence.

quote:

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Originally posted by BellaFenice:
I agree with T as well, she is gone and not here to defend herself. Regardless of how you feel about someone on LL, let them rest in peace if they have moved on.

---

She made a comment the other day (!!!!) and of course I freaked out with hearts and serenades, hence the observation that I "worship" her.

Hi AG. Hope that doesn't seem snide to you ~ just repeating what you said.

quote:

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Originally posted by BellaFenice:
I've also felt this way when having conversations with Faith.

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posted June 07, 2015 10:06 AM            

He also had a lot of Uranus aspects (Moon trine Uranus being one) so he gravitated or accepted this aspect of himself while painfully dismissing anyone or anything who even resonated a little with that part of him. He literally denied and tried to hide the Plutonian part of himself which inevitably attracted crazy Pluto/Scorpio types like myself

I have a Scorpio stellium (Sun, Mercury, Venus, Jupiter, Pluto) along with Pluto ruling my 7th house.

Sun, Mars (in 1st degree Sagittarius), and Pluto all opposite my ASC in Taurus.

I also have Sun conjunct Pluto. Mars conjunct Pluto sith mars being located almost exactly on my 7th house cusp.

You project what you deny. That is what I have learned.

As far as discomfort? Yes, definitely. But I believe it only makes those uncomfortable who aren't willing to go to the depths of themselves.

posted June 07, 2015 10:09 AM            

I could talk to you all day as you know. Forgive me for not getting to all of your points...will try and catch up eventually.

quote:

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Originally posted by Ceridwen:
Maybe I jsut haven`t met your shadow self yet.

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Maybe I haven't either.

Well there is my b!tchy side, and I'm sure you've seen that? I mean, when I said, I can be aggressive, that HAS been demonstrated at LL before.

Ummm....just had another dream last night that makes me feel like I have this whole other person inside who I don't quite know anymore. Maybe that's part of my shadow side.

quote:

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Originally posted by Ceridwen:
While our Moons are in different elements, yours is trine my Saturn, and it falls into my 3rd house, so the mental channels are always open to me (might be different for your 8th house, though it means both our 8th house planets are trine in a water sign, so even that is a positive thing)

---

I feel like we communicate on a wide, open plain of total acceptance and I really appreciate it. Even if you tell me I'm being dramatic. I trust you and know exactly where you are coming from.

quote:

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Originally posted by Ceridwen:
Your Mercury sextiles my Mars-ASC, granted it also squares my Uranus, but so I should be the one annoying the heck out of you, though it might help that Uranus is dispositing your Mercury anyway

---

No, you never annoy me.

quote:

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Originally posted by Ceridwen:
I do not really need to talk about your Venus, do I?
Conjunct my Mars-ASC and with a bit wider orb Neptune-NN, square to Jupiter is totally nice as well.

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Maybe because of that.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ceridwen:
My Moon on your Sun/Moon-mp and trine your Mars and sextile your Jupiter.
No complaining here. lol

---

And that.

quote:

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Originally posted by Ceridwen:
Hmm, though falling in love with the same guy could turn out being rather problematic, and I would probably be on the losing side with your fiery Aries-Lilith opposing your and my Pluto.

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ROTFL...actually I don't think we have similar tastes in men. Actually I think I'm married.

quote:

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Originally posted by Ceridwen:
Having said that I can see how some of the things you say might be taken the wrong (like, unintended) way and may be taken more personally than it was maybe meant to, when I see your Aqua-Mercury opposing Saturn and square uranus.
With Mercury also ruling your 3rd house.

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Yep yep yep.

quote:

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Originally posted by Ceridwen:
Plus Pluto IN the 3rd house opposing Lilith in 9th - yeah, remind me to never cross any lines in terms of principles or beliefs or ideas that are really important to you.
I would even consider it a t-square to the Sun, your chartruler.

---

posted June 07, 2015 10:11 AM            

I am sorry you had to go through all of that.

And I really did not want to tell you "Cheer up, it`s not all that bad."
Cause honestly sometimes it IS.

But I also donīt want anyone be scared of an astrological configuration, cause they might mean something different for this person, or might have different manifestations at different times in life.

Personally sometimes Pluto-transits or progressions came with horrible experiences of loss, and at other times they did not.

When my maternal grandmother died, my pr Moon was conjunct pr DESC exact, square my natal Pluto, with Tr Pluto opposing my pr Moon and conjunct my pr ASC and square my n Pluto. So that was an incidence where Pluto DID take on such a role, though her passing away was to be expected at that timeframe.

when my maternal grandfather had a stroke, Tr Pluto was conjunct my Mars (ruler of my IC) and also ASC.

Of course there were also other things going on in my life which were more positive, but that was harsh as well.

On the other hand I was having sa Pluto square n Moon from october 2011 - october 2012 (exact april 2012), and nothing that horrible happend, unless we count myself taking a hiatus from seeing Mr Sag (and actually he was publishing THAT song just when that direction became exact for me).

I was having Tr Pluto square n Moon from january - october 1990, and it was one of the most amazing periods in my life. Very shaping, too. But most of all it was carefree and intense (in a good way), (though there were one or two or even more situations for me within that timeperiod that came too close to a possible sexual assault for comfort, and might have served to build up very strong boundaries and defenses, too, but frankly, these situations have been a red thread through certain formative years in my development; never actually resulting in something as horrible as a rape, but the veiled and sometimes not so veiled threat/ danger was clearly there, actually that might be more of a Neptunian thing though).

BUT still the memory I have of this timeperiod is that it was one of the happiest in my life.

And then there was the year when my very good friend`s boyfriend died in a motorcycle accident, which left such a deep impact on me, I wasn`t able to function for MONTHS after that. It even silenced any kind of writing voice I had until then. and I was living for and through my writing. But I remember it well, everything just became silent.
We weren`t that closely befriended, him and me, but that was just horrible, and the funeral was one of the most horrible memories I have, the experience of absolute nothingness, meaninglessness, senselessness, the absolute conviction of there is no God, and maybe worse, there is no sense, no meaning in life. I just had been fooling myself. THAT was an awful experience. Dreadful.

There was not even the shadow of a Pluto transit, progression or direction around that time though.

Instead it was accompanied by:

Tr Saturn opposite n Neptune-NN (exact just a week before he died)

pr Moon conjunct n Moon (not what you expect, right? but Moon rules my 8th house)

I would have expected Pluto to play more of a role in that one, but that is one oft he astro-mysteries in my life I guess.

it seems like the transformation through Pluto can take on very different shapes and methods.

But no matter what it is accompanied by, Pluto, Saturn, Neptune, URanus, even Venus, those experiences of loss are just so unfair nad cruel. and I would never want to mean to be flippant about thos deep heartwrenching emotions and sadness someone is going through.

posted June 07, 2015 10:13 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Yanmorg:

As far as discomfort? Yes, definitely. But I believe it only makes those uncomfortable who aren't willing to go to the depths of themselves.

---

What's there at the depth of yourself, if you don't mind me asking? Can you describe it?

ETA: Not trying to pry, but...

posted June 07, 2015 10:45 AM            

But I knew I was going to be a chatterbox with all these planets in Gemini, in my 11H, hanging out with my Mars. I've designated this week like a personal holiday where I am going to talk a lot. I need to get some things worked out, verbally, and why not now.

quote:

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Originally posted by Ceridwen:
Faith,

I am sorry you had to go through all of that.

---

Thanks ~ I'm sorry you went through your hard times, too. Unavoidable for all of us, but it's no good to grieve alone, we all have to show our scars sometimes.

Edit: Even though I just deleted mine. Don't have to show them all the time!

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ceridwen:
But I also donīt want anyone be scared of an astrological configuration, cause they might mean something different for this person, or might have different manifestations at different times in life.

Personally sometimes Pluto-transits or progressions came with horrible experiences of loss, and at other times they did not.

---

I agree. Pluto is always happening, and there is always happiness anyway.

But we all have those "dark nights of the soul" and they aren't easy, and sometimes they coincide with Pluto transits.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ceridwen:
When my maternal grandmother died, my pr Moon was conjunct pr DESC exact, square my natal Pluto, with Tr Pluto opposing my pr Moon and conjunct my pr ASC and square my n Pluto. So that was an incidence where Pluto DID take on such a role, though her passing away was to be expected at that timeframe.

---

What a configuration!

quote:

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Originally posted by Ceridwen:
when my maternal grandfather had a stroke, Tr Pluto was conjunct my Mars (ruler of my IC) and also ASC.

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Pluto-Mars sounds dangerous. Did he die of the stroke?

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ceridwen:
...to build up very strong boundaries and defenses, too, but frankly, these situations have been a red thread through certain formative years in my development; never actually resulting in something as horrible as a rape, but the veiled and sometimes not so veiled threat/ danger was clearly there, actually that might be more of a Neptunian thing though).

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Pretty scary. Actually doesn't that sound kinda Mars-ASC? Oh and being a Venus square Pluto person, that might be one of your themes? No need to explore this if it makes you uncomfortable.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ceridwen:
BUT still the memory I have of this timeperiod is that it was one of the happiest in my life.

---

Right...like I had great times in my teenage years, despite what was happening at home. Maybe partly because I wasn't taking anything for granted. And sometimes I suspect is a universal balance at work, where, when you are in pain, "angels" in some form or another will make themselves known. Though that's....not a concrete belief...more like a whimsical idea I got after watching footage of a mother being shot on her doorstep while her little son screamed in agony and horror, and I thought, "Every single person who is watching this video has their heart breaking, and they are sending some kind of prayer to lift and heal that boy. I can only hope he feels it, somehow."

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ceridwen:
And then there was the year when my very good friend`s boyfriend died in a motorcycle accident, which left such a deep impact on me, I wasn`t able to function for MONTHS after that. It even silenced any kind of writing voice I had until then. and I was living for and through my writing. But I remember it well, everything just became silent.

---

Interesting. I wonder if I'm in that silent space still. I used to write a lot, but it's tapered off to nothing except computer talk.

quote:

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Originally posted by Ceridwen:
We weren`t that closely befriended, him and me, but that was just horrible, and the funeral was one of the most horrible memories I have, the experience of absolute nothingness, meaninglessness, senselessness, the absolute conviction of there is no God, and maybe worse, there is no sense, no meaning in life. I just had been fooling myself. THAT was an awful experience. Dreadful.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ceridwen:
There was not even the shadow of a Pluto transit, progression or direction around that time though.

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Nothing in your 8H either? Pluto is always somewhere....

quote:

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Originally posted by Ceridwen:
Instead it was accompanied by:

Tr Saturn opposite n Neptune-NN (exact just a week before he died)
pr Moon conjunct n Moon (not what you expect, right? but Moon rules my 8th house)

---

Oh, so there's a hint of Pluto, with your moon. How did I not know the moon rules your 8H? That's mirroring with us, then.

quote:

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Originally posted by Ceridwen:
it seems like the transformation through Pluto can take on very different shapes and methods.

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Yes

quote:

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Originally posted by Ceridwen:
I would never want to mean to be flippant about thos deep heartwrenching emotions and sadness someone is going through.

---

Anyone who knows you, knows this.

posted June 07, 2015 10:56 AM            

When I said that I was going to reply to you and Ceri in other places, I was thinking this thread might just drop to the bottom and fade out if I stopped replying here. But it hasn't.

So -- I'll just say it here, that I love all you wrote. Thanks for listening to Skyscraper...and this I Never Lost My Praise song is awesome.

I love Southern Gospel music. Born out of "the triumph of the human spirit" over slavery and oppression of the worst kind.

I know some of the details of your life and know to take you seriously when you allude to your personal 9-11, and I just want to hug you and say one more time that I really admire your resilience, and hold you up like a role model of how to deal with everything. Not that I am religious the way you are, but I can look beyond and see the joy and miracles of life, too...and need to work, to not lose sight of that.

posted June 07, 2015 10:59 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Eirlys:
Venus conjunct Pluto... (I *do* have that).

You're not alone.

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Thanks.

posted June 07, 2015 11:06 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by GypseeWind:
Hi Faith~
I didn't read all the comments, but I'm in agreement with Ceri about not wanting to change my pluto. I have it squaring my sun and venus. I thought I was strange and hideous for a long time (still have moments of that) but then I started gravitating towards other Plutonians and things got much better. The guy I'm currently talking to has Moon Sq Pluto.
The last one had mars and venus sq pluto. So they understand the crazy intensity.

---

Glad to hear it's getting better for you, Gypsee Wind. Maybe I need more Plutonians and Scorpios in my life. To be honest I have deliberately limited my interaction with that energy: for example, I avoided dating Scorpios even if I was attracted to them, and I have no Scorpio friends, though I used to. It just got too intense. My Scorpio brother has an Aqua moon to liven things up and he is the only Scorpio I talk to in real life.

ETA: I meant Scorpio adult, that I talk to about adult things. My daughter counts of course!! But I wouldn't go to her with issues I'm having.

Yeah. Lightbulb is clicking on. Maybe, I should get to know more Scorpios and let more people park their planets in my 8H. Though I just got a bit sick at the thought of it.

quote:

---

Originally posted by GypseeWind:
Not a huge fan of Pluto transits. I have it on my MC right now. But I much prefer pluto transits to Saturn. Saturn feels like you are wearing cement shoes and the clock never moves it's hands, ugh.

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Saturn is on my Scorpio daughter's 8H sun while Pluto is on my Cap sun. We have a mutual reception of pain.

Better to laugh than cry....