posted April 13, 2020 04:41 PM            

I did tell you our society needed the Pluto treatment lol I’m still riding that pony, girl loves her Pluto 😊
I think I’m very at ease with the now-ness because of my natal conjunction, I feel so calm and understanding, the impossibility to have control over that doesn’t bother me in the least but not in a IDAF way either. Maybe the fact that conjunction squares my moon, my Pluto sextiles my AC/Venus and transit Pluto squares my Pluto also help, all I know is I feel ridiculously preserved from the fears people mention. I feel aware.

There are jobs true but there also are things to do other than shop to kill time that could be beneficial in the long run. It’s not exactly fair either to give people a Sophie’s choice between no job and risking your life, but that’s capitalistic so it’s in tune for you 😊

Thank you, I do know we have stellar differences in those areas, it’s more than fine, but it’s nice you found it beautifully put, My Libra mercury takes it as a lovely compliment from all your Libra energy 😊

Out of mind out of sight does get magnified by lockdown but I would blame politicians for that any day of the year before I venture into lecturing another civilian about it on such a special occasion. It doesn’t yield much, as if I tried to convince you capitalism is strictly evil, I could argue with you at some level (if I had a thing for wasting my time lol) but I could never rival with the core of your belief. Saturn-Pluto only can make someone/something reflect at that level and it’s not for us mere mortals to play gods with each other 😉 Right now the dudes are at it and I think everyone is taking it how they can.

posted April 13, 2020 05:37 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by hypatia238:
@moonbeth this will make you happy:

For a while NOW through this Crazy Crisis we are all dealing with TR PHOLUS has been conjuncting Tr SOUTHNODE!

So we may indeed collectively be experiencing a turning point were we are outgrowing some cappy traits on a collective level and refocusing more on human connection over achievement! WE are re-discovering how much we value connecting with each other!!!! WE really are.

This is the issue with the dichotomy of our political system, that the right is seeing as money hungry folks but most people that fall on the right spectrum that are financially conservative worry about the economy precisely because they CARE about human life. Most people on the right are not rich folks, the 1% is 1% and this 1% includes folks from the left too.

Both sides care about human life they just have different views on how to help humanity.

---

Sorry, hadn't seen this one before, this is just a copy paste of what I replied to this on the other thread, where Pholus was questioned 😊:

I like the idea of Pholus showing the breaking point of a south node cycle and projecting everything into a new era of growth, but I don’t really see the link between that and human connection specifically.
Capricorn is awfully family and that’s close contact, it doesn’t oppose cancer for shite lol when a cappy pretends they need nobody and can make it on their own I call ******** lol so, I don’t really see how reconnecting is a turning point from cappy traits… to me the connection thing also is very scattered; with the divorce rate sky rocketing in China post lockdown I’m thinking some people didn’t feel they were lacking connection and mostly had too much lol
But I like the idea that while the Saturn-Pluto conjunction did the bulk of the work (I love the centaurs, but they don’t compete with gods 😉 ) Pholus may have been the virus itself, the surprise, at a time we expected something to happen, the fact it was a seemingly innocent virus that ended up being lethal and brought the world to its knees does feel Pholus like “hehe surprise ************* ! ^^”
If you consider the crisis not a health one but a structure one with how a lot of issues came from how unprepared our society was for a global pandemic, you may also see this as the unexpected result of the social experiment carried in the “south node” period, a social model brought to its breaking point and going ‘pop’ under the demands of father Saturn and Pluto coming to how sound and strong things were.

Adding:
Now you spell it in terms of connection Vs achievement it’s clearer about Capricorn energy, hmmm maybe… although as I’ve said I don’t think people specifically learn to connect again with lockdown: they either miss it, but not because of the old ways that are breaking down, because of the current situation, or they somehow suffer from it (divorce rate), or indeed rediscover it, but I don’t think either of these avenues is a majority, so I wouldn’t see that as a major element or higher purpose of what is happening as it also reinforces a lot of social discrepancies and inequalities that become possible when people aren’t connected and create a lot of distances.
I also fiercely disagree so many people, whether right of left, care about human life and the be all end all of political tensions is people disagreeing on the “how”, though it would be interesting if you could support that astrologically, but it’d be a life’s work (*imagines thousands of charts with similar aspects and placements BUT for those determine courses of actions, with mystical emphasis on the cardinal houses and all *)

posted April 13, 2020 05:48 PM            

i think reliance on the government on that level actually strips down quality of life ultimately, but you and i have been over this before you know me already

you did and i don't disagree there, we have a different view on what the ideal outcome is, but the pluto/saturn treatment is necessary yeah

i think that's the thing with pluto/saturn both from my individual experience with them hitting so much of my **** (the exact conjunction happened 1 degree from my ic and squared my nodes exact, looser squares to moon/venus asc/desc) and watching all of this unfold

it literally rips so much away and there's nothing you can do to go back, you just ride it out and see where it goes but as harsh as it gets i wouldn't call it bad

once it all winds down you sort of look around and can see the ways it's for the best

my point in mentioning the jobs was no one (even a lot of healthcare workers) wants to take care of these sick people, but the field is pretty wide open at this point and people are desperate for workers in places so someone willing who cares about work would be more than welcome

especially if they're you know compassionate and caring about all of this and fine with risk want to be face to face etc

being real it's a necessary thing, and i think people who are worried about money probably should go out and be around these people because this is what they're ignoring

see the containment procedures, what keeps the numbers down as much as they are (though there's plenty of cases) witness shortages and crazy hours and all the uncertainty etc see what it's like when all there is to do is make these people comfortable while they die

that was my real point, not so much the sophie's choice thing, but that it's easy to say "i accept" or "it's worth the risk" when this is all happening behind a screen

but actually being there it's different, you see pretty ******* quick how much containment and prevention are necessary and the sort of toll it can take

as for buying **** i dont really, i ******* hate shopping and couldnt give a **** about acquiring most things the money i do have is just sitting around

i plan on moving because my ex is being a bit of a stalker right now and i can't with her ****

the risk is a little bit of a rush though you know, there's that

i've risked plenty selfishly so doing the opposite isn't too bad, not about money or anything just idk followed signs ended up here type of deal

weird **** , but is what it is

it was genuine, the compliment, i don't need to agree fully to see that it was well reasoned and thought out and phrased well you know? i respect the way you see it even where my views don't meet

i think out of sight out of mind is just how people are as a society and i think all the screens make it worse in a way because then nothing is tangible

can't blame politicians for a normal human behavior people have always pushed what they dont want to deal with off into corners somewhere

there's a reason the phrase "treated like a leper" is still around even though leprosy is a non issue at this point

easily cured, some people are naturally resistant etc and so on

out of sight out of mind is convenient, and i would call it a suggestion not a lecture

posted April 13, 2020 11:34 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Moonbeth:
@anonymidarkness
I love that you make me laugh with words so sensible I also cannot but agree 😊

@hypatia I cannot agree with your fears (lol as if fears were opinions) because your whole reasoning is based on the idea that this economy is worth preserving and I really think it isn’t.
I have said for a while our society deserves the Pluto treatment and now it gets it, with the blessing of Saturn, I cannot see that as a wholly bad thing (come on sis, you too have the conjunction natal, don’t you see what I see? 😊 ).
At first I was joking about the good old pandemics such as the plague, but those were next level and more about direct survival, this pandemic confronts us to what we are, what we do and have been doing, it’s a beautiful example of Saturn-Pluto together, we are being urged to change, but only because we haven’t learnt our lessons well.
I remember on that thread that got closed, or moved (I don’t really know, I have to say I didn’t really see the problem with it, but then again I only read diagonally ) when Belage argued that people needed the economy to stay alive, but that’s not entirely true. This economy that we’ve had, was and still is killing millions, some fast, some slow, but putting on the table a question that essentially amounts to saying “shouldn’t we consider saving this economy as a priority Vs saving as many humans lives as we can” is just wrong. I imagine it’s way more difficult to see for someone who thrives or goes by easily in this economy and in this society as a whole, but trust me, it is not the only way we can live and it is wrong.
I can’t remember where, but I saw a picture of a hospital whose staff has painted letters on its windows that read “capitalism is the real virus”, another funny picture that went viral on the net shows a tyrannosaurus going “oh **** , the economy!” as a meteor is about to crash and destroy earth.
This economy is only pretending to die so we give it cash, just like a greedy, unaware of any sense of measure baby, stock exchange can crash, stay dead for a thousand years and then be magically reborn through the beauty of math, because it’s only calculation of the virtual value or a virtual entity. Human lives are real, organic, the people who have died from the virus won’t rise up again (I know, sorry, zombie apocalypse theorists ^^). So, how can we even stop for a second and consider saving the economy has any importance?
The only way the death of this economy will entail more human deaths is if humans stubbornly decide to keep on living by its principles.
This economy is wrong, this economy is why our hospitals are crowded, this economy is why we are running out of masks, this economy is why the communication around numbers has been so suspicious, this economy is why our planet is dying, this economy is why so many people can’t afford to be treated for that virus or anything else, this economy is why lockdown is being bad for this economy, because this economy does not have our interest at heart, because it has no heart.
Lockdown is not only the only thing that makes sense and actually works in scientific terms against the virus, it’s also our best weapon against this economy.
I remember you said you felt covid was earth’s way of telling us “enough” and punishing us for our behaviour towards it, if you can’t change your ways I’ll destroy your very life (Pluto much? 😉 ), I kind of share this view; now extend it to the Saturn side of things, add a grain of socialism, it’s like most of the world is on strike now, a very Saturnian way of saying “if you can’t hear me and we can’t work with proper discipline towards a healthy, sound and stable goal together, then I’ll unleash my discipline on you and freeze everything (see how you make your big bucks without the busy bees)”.
This economy is necessary because we’ve allowed it to possess us, because we know nothing else, because however ****** it may be, it’s our comfort. Saturn-Pluto offers us a beautiful opportunity to step out of that comfort zone and recreate a better zone, let the economy crash and burn, let humanity be reborn from that in a healthier, sounder, more stable way.
That is all we can hope for. Will it happen? Well, if a majority of people doubt like you do, considering putting a sick economy in danger a bad thing, and others don’t doubt but think in terms of money, money, money, well, we may go out again before it’s time and sacrifice lives to spare the economy and you’ll probably be able to count me in the suicides of the next few years because the system won’t stop from getting uglier.
If all you can think of is the economy then you’ll agree for insane restrictions (more bad Saturn) such as forcing people to work 100 hours a week on minimum wage to make up for the losses, and health, entry level jobs, the people we clap for today and call heroes, will be the first enslaved and destroyed for the realisation of this “reconstruction”. Except it won’t be a reconstruction, it will be chasing an old toxic lover for one more hit because the urge of addiction is too tempting. A real reconstruction implies to do something new, a structure that will thrive on what it has learnt from the defects of its predecessor.
That an economy cannot sustain a lockdown designed to spare humanity and save human lives is a massive flaw.
I mean, if we really wanted, we could cancel all the debts everywhere, it’s just numbers in machines, you don’t believe your money is actually on your bank account, do you? It’s just a number allocated to you, we have enough computer geniuses to create algorithms to make us buy shoes we don’t need and date people we don’t like but they couldn’t make the computers believe everything is fine by altering the numbers in everyone’s favour? The fact they won’t do it, doesn’t mean it can’t be done, they just want to protect this economy, this economy needs billionaires and starving children, it cannot take equality, decency, sharing or fairness, which is why I see no problem in it going **** itself 😊.

This is a time now, where something massive is bringing all these to the surface, Pluto is showing what has been boiling under the surface for a while, in economic terms, it is NOT about a virus.
You worry: what happens in 8 months when our bank accounts are empty and we have nothing to exchange for food at the shops? Maybe we just carry on doing what we do, work from home, and get food for that, without notion of money, since no one will have any money anymore. Of course human nature isn’t so nice and it will demand a whole reconstruction and set of rules (lucky some of us are lawyers and philosophers and…), and there may be global restrictions for a while (where you’d get food for free but not just anything, just basic items) until we have a better system, but would it be so bad to go on a diet after lockdown? Would it be worse than literally killing yourself at work (or watching half the population do so if you’re lucky to be someone who profits from this economy) just to get a toxic, human life killing system?

So, to answer your question, lockdown is realistic as long as we put human life before the economy.
I feel for your fears, I really do, I also really don’t share them because I have been living in fear my whole life in this economy because of its principles and reality so, I’m not fearful it will crash, I’m fearful it’s going to survive and we don’t.
I know I’m an idealist, but I also have my own comfort in this toxic world, I just don’t fear losing it so much as I fear keeping it because I’m painfully aware of its price. I think it’s time we got rid of price tags on life, don’t you? 😊

---

"...when Belage argued that people needed the economy to stay alive..."

Dang!! It's kind of weird seeing my name brought up from another thread and being misquoted no less.

I get it, all you took from what I said BACK THERE was your own interpretation, i.e. Throw Grandma from the Train!

I recall arguing that the sick and the elderly need a strong economy so that they can actually receive the COSTLY healthcare that economy delivers. If you think the sick and elderly are going to get decent healthcare in a crappy economy, you are not a student of history and economics.

posted April 13, 2020 11:37 PM            

Tr NEPTUNE in PISCES along with mercury in pisces was not letting us or our leaders think clearly including myself. I feel this entire time mercury was in pisces I felt distrustful of information and didn't know how to feel about all of it.

This is an Excellent video that breaks down the statics so far of coronavirus and points out this is mainly affecting the elderly who have UNDERLYING health issues but specific ones like 5 underlying health conditions, 3 of them are heart problems, diabetes and cancer if I remember correctly, there were like two others mentioned I cannot remember but the video below I dont think goes over them.

I highly recommend people watch it, it has some good information to consider and process.

"If you’re going to quarantine people, why not quarantine those at greatest risk? We balance imperatives in public health all the time. According to the NIH, the death rate from the smallpox vaccine has historically been about one in every million vaccinations. That’s considerably higher than the death rate from Coronavirus in this country for people under 45. To be clear: We are not arguing against the smallpox vaccine. Obviously. It’s one of the reasons life expectancy has risen. We’re strongly for it. The point is, a crisis like this requires rational decision making. So far our leaders clearly aren’t capable if it."

Please everyone Watch this video: http://www.facebook.com/TuckerCarlsonTonight/videos/1346031879120977/

posted April 13, 2020 11:44 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Belage:
[b]"...when Belage argued that people needed the economy to stay alive..."

Dang!! It's kind of weird seeing my name brought up from another thread and being misquoted no less.

I get it, all you took from what I said BACK THERE was your own interpretation, i.e. Throw Grandma from the Train!

I recall arguing that the sick and the elderly need a strong economy so that they can actually receive the COSTLY healthcare that economy delivers. If you think the sick and elderly are going to get decent healthcare in a crappy economy, you are not a student of history and economics.

But we can always fantasize, can we? We can dream of a world where even though the economy has gone to the gutter and unemployment is at an all time high and people are worrying how they will pay their rent or their mortgage, there will still be unlimited amount of resources to funnel into healthcare for the most vulnerable populations. it feels nice, and I don't mind dreaming that too. Oh Neptune, where art thou?[/B]

---

Belage you argued for targeted quarantine from the start, you had the clarity to suggest that from the start when the rest of the world was in a NEPTUNE fear induced fog including leaders throughout the world.

You should RUN for president, I would vote for you.

posted April 13, 2020 11:52 PM            

Aries is not a sign where Mercury is particularly strong to start with. So clarity is not a given there.

Entering Aries, mercury will be at crosshair with the nodes. Implications, not in tunes with the times.

Aries is impulsive and headstrong. there will be impulsive decisions made that will not stand the test of reality. There will be fighting arguments, my way or the highway.

And then, while travelling through Aries, there will be a time when Mercury will be at crosshairs with Jupiter, Pluto and Saturn in Capricorn. Again, that does not promote clarity, but, hey, good ole fights will be had by all.

Then Mercury will enter Taurus. Not exactly the most intellectual sign. But when conjuncting Uranus, it will be worth watching.

posted April 13, 2020 11:56 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by hypatia238:
Belage you argued for targeted quarantine from the start, you had the clarity to suggest that from the start when the rest of the world was in a NEPTUNE fear induced fog including leaders throughout the world.

You should RUN for president, I would vote for you.

---

LOL. I have absolutely no desire to be a political leader. I distrust politics and politicians.

Human nature has disappointed me. I will go out and vote as a civic duty, but I will do so with no passion or illusion. It is what it is.

posted April 14, 2020 12:18 AM            

quote:

---

This is an Excellent video that breaks down the statics so far of coronavirus and points out this is mainly affecting the elderly who have UNDERLYING health issues but specific ones like 5 underlying health conditions, 3 of them are heart problems, diabetes and cancer if I remember correctly, there were like two others mentioned I cannot remember but the video below I dont think goes over them.

I highly recommend people watch it, it has some good information to consider and process.

"If you’re going to quarantine people, why not quarantine those at greatest risk? We balance imperatives in public health all the time. According to the NIH, the death rate from the smallpox vaccine has historically been about one in every million vaccinations. That’s considerably higher than the death rate from Coronavirus in this country for people under 45. To be clear: We are not arguing against the smallpox vaccine. Obviously. It’s one of the reasons life expectancy has risen. We’re strongly for it. The point is, a crisis like this requires rational decision making. So far our leaders clearly aren’t capable if it."

Please everyone Watch this video: http://www.facebook.com/TuckerCarlsonTonight/videos/1346031879120977/

[/B]

---

posted April 14, 2020 03:52 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Belage:
[b]"...when Belage argued that people needed the economy to stay alive..."

Dang!! It's kind of weird seeing my name brought up from another thread and being misquoted no less.

I get it, all you took from what I said BACK THERE was your own interpretation, i.e. Throw Grandma from the Train!

I recall arguing that the sick and the elderly need a strong economy so that they can actually receive the COSTLY healthcare that economy delivers. If you think the sick and elderly are going to get decent healthcare in a crappy economy, you are not a student of history and economics.

But we can always fantasize, can we? We can dream of a world where even though the economy has gone to the gutter and unemployment is at an all time high and people are worrying how they will pay their rent or their mortgage, there will still be unlimited amount of resources to funnel into healthcare for the most vulnerable populations. it feels nice, and I don't mind dreaming that too. Oh Neptune, where art thou?[/B]

---

posted April 14, 2020 04:50 AM            

I don’t know, I can imagine for someone who’d refuse their own layers, or someone who never did any self-work, it could be brutal and propel into depression or something… like the hoarders who stocked up on toilet rolls within the first days and are blocking all the delivery slots that the elders should benefit from, or the ***** who end up in the hospital for having washed their mouths with bleach (true story), some of these people must have some severe weaknesses when it comes to “real”, mustn’t they? but, if you’re the kind who takes ugly as another shade of pretty then yes, it’s never bad: batshit cray, wild, deep, intense, not easy… but not bad, I even see it as healthy most of the time, but what do my Hades moon and I know? 😊
Just like if you build properly, Saturn returns aren’t so bad, I’m convinced, more and more, that we can “prepare” for Pluto. If we’re on a regenerative track, we don’t stagnate, if we’re not complacent, then Pluto doesn’t hit so hard, it’ll always challenge you, but nothing you aren’t able to take.

I hear you, but for having done similar but less risky jobs, I know it’s not just that easy, you can care immensely but not have the stomach for it, you can care and have the stomach but feel responsible for your children and not risk too much out of that… lots of possibilities.
I always think of that scene in Fight Club, when in one of the groups a lady shows up saying she has terminal cancer and just wants one last shag, she explains she has lube and everything needed and she gets interrupted and most people are ill at ease and that to me is hardcore Pluto shite. It’s the thing that even the people who come to see the truth have a hard time swallowing because however real you think you were, here’s another layer. Which is why I see daily discipline in being truthful to yourself is the only way to handle it gracefully and why I love this paring of Pluto and Saturn, to me they turn combine the psychopath and the sociopath to make a Terminator, equally deadly but programmable for self preservation lol

I hear you, I’m not sure it works that way, not sure actually witnessing the reality of a disease, the misery can change the track of someone who only cares “on the surface”. I’m thinking of a bloke I met, you know the kind of one night soulmate? You meet at a party talk deeply for hours, confess things you have never before, then you introduce yourselves as you part and never meet again? Lol
He was a Pisces with cappy rising (so technically for me potential actual soulmate lol nope, so not, but I love both signs) and he was in a crisis, having broken up with his girlfriend while they were trying for a baby. He had lived the tidy life for 28 years and Saturn had something to say about it, but where I really felt he and I had zilch in common was when he told me his best friend, childhood friend, had died from cancer 4 months ago and he never went to see him. He explained to me he loved him so much, but he just couldn’t take it, the sight of him in a hospital bed, despite how everyone around him insisted, including his friend, he never went.
I do not understand that. I just don’t. But I know it exists and while I pray I never get attached to someone like that, I do think the misery his inability to act on his caring feelings brings him is his lot of pain, so as much as I don’t understand, who am I to judge him and say he should face misery he obviously cannot? Extreme case, but once you have that the spectrum falls into place. Some care by speaking, others by acting, others in other ways… The times need for acting types, it doesn’t necessarily make everyone else full of it.

Sorry I mentioned the shopping thing, I had something else entirely on my mind, needlessly confusing.

Ha! I did think of that about you! Lol That’s what I meant earlier when I said some people don’t help for genuine reasons, if you have a child, especially if you’re a single parent, you just don’t want to expose yourself to a lethal virus.
Now, I don’t see your, not reason, but how you react to the risk component, as anything less genuine, but it wouldn’t be fair to obliterate that when dealing with others, the single parent has their factor, you have yours, everyone has theirs, it does reduce the number of hypocritical arseholes who claim they care but don’t help, doesn’t it?
And it actually makes a lot of sense to me what you said about risking selfishly and now doing it selflessly, must be a Virgo-Libra combo thing, but it makes perfect sense to me, I think this could be your best therapy right there.

I absolutely know you can, so can I, which is why I enjoyed the compliment, I know exactly who it came from 😊

I so agree the screens make it all so much worse, because people think they know and are in touch, but they’re not. They’re all “I know, I saw it on tv”, no ***** , you don’t.
I wonder if something in the astrology of it all points to that factor, to that increase of smoke around reality…

I can blame politicians for anything lol a-ny-thing, you name it, from global warming to the hole in my pyjamas, I can lol
It’s just one of my biggest arsehole traits, because politicians are people who basically step up to say “I have the ideas to make it all work, to save us all” and it just rubs me the wrong way lol where most people see nobility and inspiration, I see an inflated ego, my humble brag bs radar goes ape and I just develop crazy standards for them. Average Joe is disconnected from reality? Sure, poor pet. Politician is disconnected? You rancid gaping a-hole pretending you want to help from your shiny private jet!!!!
As I’ve said, arsehole trait, it doesn’t reason anymore that it sleeps lol

Minimising covid’s effects isn’t just about treating those affected like lepers, it’s also a way to reassure oneself and boosts one’s faith I think. One of my co-workers had a whole spiralling down week advocating herd immunity and whatnot, I thought I was going to break lockdown just to strangle her lol turns out she was expiating her own anxiety about her hubby, who’s very fragile in the face of these viruses and had decided to go vote. That’s what makes society such a chore, the line between hypocrites and people with genuine struggles is very thin.

Suggestion or lecture, you did go in like a mustang lol Not everybody is as detached as you are all the time and you know that, you also know you play with that and I am not teaching you anything if I say you tend to gaslight and start all sorts of random **** when bored, you can be a naughty boy 😊

posted April 14, 2020 09:13 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Stawr:
I remember reading that sometimes with Saturn transits if something is not right it will fall apart.

---

posted April 14, 2020 10:58 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Moonbeth:
I didn't misquote you, I made a willingly vague reference to a post you had made to refresh Hypatia's memory as I know she had seen my replies on that other thread.
I was giving context to what I said, that's all, sorry you misreading me rubbed your ego the wrong way but it was in no way, shape, or form, about you and your views.
While we're playing hopscotch down memory lane, I remember you being civil and not condescending, even facing someone who disagrees, sorry I actually misread that.

---

My poor bruised ego...

You misquoted me and you are doubling down and blaming my ego now. Well, you did say that you read "diagonally." Or am I misquoting you? Perhaps you.. misread... everything...

posted April 14, 2020 11:23 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Belage:

Well, you did say that you read diagonally. Or am I misquoting you? Perhaps you.. misread... everything...

---

So, that is my ADD and chronic illness associated brain fog sorted, what else do you want to make fun of: the other side effects of the strong medication I take on the daily, my bowel disease, skin symptoms, Oh no wait: my dead family, the physical scars from my rape?
Dude, it’s such a shame you can’t see me, you’d have a field day about all the cruel ignorant arseholish mocking there is to do about me.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Belage:
I am grateful for your respect and appreciation, Moonbeth. It was never my intention to offend anyone, ...

---

Gone are those days I guess…

posted April 14, 2020 11:27 AM            

I have no idea who people are behind their keystrokes...

posted April 14, 2020 02:42 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by hypatia238:
Kannon warned us that the information was going to clear up once MERCURY Enters ARIES and this is what is happening.

---

Not me. Must have been someone else. My analysis has involved the outer social/transpersonal planets and declinations.

quote:

---

Tr NEPTUNE in PISCES along with mercury in pisces was not letting us or our leaders think clearly including myself. I feel this entire time mercury was in pisces I felt distrustful of information and didn't know how to feel about all of it.

---

I can agree that this is an influence upon communication and interpretation of data worldwide. However, I don't think now that policies have gained momentum and put in place for a month or more at a time, some indefinitely, that we're going to see Mercury in Aries clear up irrationality or effect reversals of major policy decisions. If anything, what we're going to see is more aggressive assertion of those policies for a while, more authoritarian attitudes from government/experts and more vocal opposition or activation of questioning of those policies by ordinary folks. Mercury in Pisces is more passive, more prone to being propagandized, less communicative.

And no, I don't get my health/medical info from Tucker Carlson or anyone with clear political biases. I get my public health info in situations like this from epidemiologists and the like. It is very important to get health science information from a non-politicized, non-ideological source who is free of conflicts of interest so that the focus is health, not ideological or selfish notions of 'freedom' or 'rights'. (Sorry, not Dr Fauci who is infamous for his conflicts of interest.) Like the perspective of this often cited 35 year career German epidemiologist Knut Wittkowski:
http://youtu.be/lGC5sGdz4kg

The problem here is that people who have little or no practice sifting through health or science data until now cannot suddenly learn how.

It takes the focus of a dedicated mind -- well apart from any worry about you or others catching/spreading a contagion to have the intellectual clarity to know what info is worth your attention and what info has a tidbit to give vs what data contains an authoritative statement. And that especially includes 'journalists'. Journalists as you know them from TV news are infamously sloppy because they are on a Hollywood sit-com like nightly production schedule and frequently pass on unchecked or just wrong information.

Anything coming through mainstream media channels that have already demonstrated their place in the corporatacracy have not practiced journalism with real integrity, but rely on hype, human drama and suffering, an if-it-bleeds-it-leads mentality. You will NOT get good reliable information or perspective from them. Maybe a good question now and then, but certainly not worth the time.

Political debate is ongoing as it should be in any free society, but this issue of SARS-CoV-2 virus, known as covid19 once someone has symptoms, is not at all aided by political ideology or politically situated debaters looking to score political points or gain leverage.

Some of you have too much Neptune clouding your eyes to really be expected to sift this out because you're too sensitive to the feelings and subjective effects on the minds of others of this entire situation -- or feeling the 'death' note like a booming bass register in all this. And it is true that one of our lessons through this whole situation IS the lesson of Neptune in Pisces: compassion that extends across national or other conventional boundaries. Neptune in Pisces will teach us transpersonal lessons.

But that's a more Neptunian focus -- sensitivity to people as a matter of greater compassion. Very different from the focused Mercury/Uranus energies to concentrate and sift out facts. (Mercury is trine Pluto in my birth chart and with Virgo rising, I'm made for this.)

Saturn in Capricorn brings the lesson to get more organized, more equipped with material resources, and to position in management those who demonstrate greater competence to get results. I would like to say that Saturn will work better in Aquarius, and maybe over two-plus years it will, but not so long as it is either conjunct Pluto or square Uranus.

Pluto in Capricorn brings the lesson of how power too easily gets twisted into external controls. Pluto does not 'behave' well in either Cancer or Capricorn. In Cancer, feeling itself and depression takes over as the common people too easily become submissive and further beaten down. In Capricorn, we have a fight for control with authoritarians who favor control over competence, and control of hierarchies over the wisdom of experience. In both signs, Pluto is prone to feeding power into external structures of power if the common person does not believe in themselves and express belief in each other.

To the degree anyone can get you to engage in blaming and social guilting over any anti-pandemic policies is the degree to which you are actually imprisoned by fear and disempowered within yourself.

During Saturn conjunct Pluto (at an orb of maybe 7 degrees or more mundane), people who are naturally given to leaning on fear to make decisions (play-it-safe mentality) will do that even more, unless they make a conscious break with it and dedicate themselves to love over fear. Otherwise, they will lean on authority figures to tell them what to do -- even at the expense of their own mental well being. Because those who are most easily propagandized do not have the strength of their own internal guidance, intuition to maintain balance. I'm not saying it's easy, but it can be done.

Our shared window of opportunity from Saturn conjunct Pluto is: to allow self-empowerment and self-control (Pluto) to transcend fear-based limitations (Saturn); to see how we can reset our internal sense of power, to maximize benefit from limited resources, to get our internal unconscious compulsions under control; to face our fears of mortality and transcend them once and for all.

During Jupiter's part in this conjunction it becomes more about externalizing drama, panic, hype, over-estimating or over-doing things -- as we've seen not just in people hoarding, but in governments and health officials over-estimating the virulence of this virus.

Our shared window of opportunity with Jupiter added to this aspect is: to find where we've over-invested in faith in public officials, those well educated (Jovian), well positioned (Capricorn) persons who love the sound of their own voices, who believe in authoritarian hierarchies of 'merit' but who may have their hand in a self-dealing cookie jar. (Jupiter in Capricorn has a very materialistic, self-promoting bent); to learn the real workings of our unconscious and priorities by seeing how we dramatize or exernalize what had previously lain latent or unadmitted; also to observe how the misdirected expansion principle may be working among the medical community, since Jupiter is their planetary principle and in Capricorn it is in its fall.

With Uranus semi-square Neptune there is an added influence of swirling ideations in which previously held ideals or ideologies (Neptune) are in tension with advanced learning and streams of global communication (Uranus). There is added pressure in which electronic communications drives imagery and speculation (Neptune), creating confusion. Dr Wittkowski points out the common use of so many social media platforms in nearly everyone's lives is what is different now in 2020 vs in 2009 when the swine flu epidemic happened. The outer planet always has to win out with its more evolutionary lift -- Neptune's role in compassion. And I do see a lot of that. This must win out over urges to rebel, to engage in any extremism of the lesser energies of Uranus.

Our shared window of opportunity from this minor Uranus-Neptune aspect as I see it is: to learn how we generate our own confusion through assumptions, rumor, hype, gossip, unsubstantiated information, reductionist leaps; how the higher mind (Uranus) and higher love (Neptune) need to be kept in balance just like mundane logic (Mercury) and intuition (Moon).

Saturn in 15-degree declination aspect with Neptune creates some tension that almost always brings up fears and floating anxieties that generally stem from some form of self-doubt or guilt. It is usually carried with us and interferes with health habits and behaviors. Here again, Neptune being the more outer transpersonal planet needs to win out over the lesser, more familial or socially constructed levers of manipulation or control (Saturn).

Our shared window of opportunity from this minor Saturn-Neptune aspect as I see it is: to notice patterns of floating anxiety or fear-based pessimism and root them out of our cognition and behavior. Otherwise, the attitudes we take on during this time will color our hearts and minds -- and possibly bodies -- for a long time.

That is even more true for Pluto's part in this -- potentially long-term consequences to attitudes we take on during this time. It is really important we be willing to do some self-evaluation and stand back objectively from our behavior, fears, obsessions, repeated themes in what we verbalize. I've had to do that. My life has already changed noticeably during this crisis, not necessarily in ways I would have predicted or wanted. But because I'd already co-created some positive change and embraced important areas of growth, it hasn't been terrible. It's been a mixture of tensions and releases: a grieving process sharply punctuated by euphoric insights indicating humanity is on track, that we have an enormous opportunity here for a reset: personally, socially, politically ... in many ways. But it won't happen unless we recognize our role in it and play our part.

Good thing is that in just a week or two Neptune's sextile with Pluto begins. This will slowly allow better developments, but only with some force of application from ongoing government policies, especially in the protection of the vulnerable (elderly, those with pre-existing chronic health issues) and in services to them in place that are better equipped.

------------------
Soul Stars Astrology by The Declinations Guy
Expert birth chart rectification

posted April 14, 2020 06:17 PM            

i get you 100% and i don't disagree with someone refusing or leaving their job etc and thinking of themselves or their family first if they own that

my point was i see it as hypocrisy to say "people as a whole should accept that this could kill us, get back to work and keep things going instead of stay in quarantine until things are better" and follow it up by saying they accept the possibility of their own death and the deaths of their loved ones while simultaneously sitting around working at home and not going outside and doing something

i 100% support quarantine because it's largely effective and preventative measures are number 1 when treating disease

so i don't see people staying at home for their family or kids or even themselves as hypocritical unless those same people are claiming to accept death due to exposure and pushing to end quarantine in spite of how ****** healthcare staff is with things at this level

reality is there's already a supply shortage, you can't prepare anyone with supplies that don't exist while raising the body count by having more exposure by opening things back up you know? it's a counterproductive and ludicrous measure

so when someone says things like that i think they should probably go outside and actually do what they say they're ok with because there's a current need for those people in a big way

to sit at home, say everyone should be out and go on and on about compassion while simultaneously not being outside actively around it is pure ********

what you said though, people in the situations you're talking about yeah 100% they should do what they're doing and that's good on them

i'm actively watching people die you know? i'm seeing it, i'm around it etc and that's my choice and i understand the potential consequences etc and so on

i go to work, i come home

i have enough to where i dont need to go places and potentially expose others aside from being neurotic levels of careful that ive seen other people forget to be

i wouldn't really consider it gaslighting to say to someone with the mentality of "people should just suck it up and risk it im ok with it" should come outside and risk it themselves right now instead of saying other people should

i don't like when people are all talk but then sit behind a screen in their homes comfortable not ever seeing the full weight of what they're advocating for

especially when it's masked behind compassion because it's quite literally the opposite ultimately towards healthcare workers, the masses, and people dying already

i know what you mean about one night soulmates, great way of phrasing it (very fight club on its own, reminiscent of "single serving friend") and i wouldn't judge someone like him, people cope how they cope you know? i'd only tell him to **** off if he told someone else they were in the wrong for doing what he did (not be there) and implied everyone else should do what he hasnt, you get me?

i wouldn't really consider it gaslighting because i didn't twist words or go off topic

was i harsh? i suppose, but i think sometimes people need to hear **** without all the diplomacy attached because it can be ineffectual red tape in getting a point across

and when dealing with what i see as major hypocrisy coming from someone who seems more talk than anything frequently i tend to go in with gloves off because there's little point in going through the motions of "well i see what you mean but..." because i just don't feel that way and cant be bothered when i dont give a ****

that all being said kannon's mention of neptune's involvement would hit on the smoke screen i suppose

i dont really see this as a bad thing tbh, or particularly stressful, im ultimately curious where the world ends up

saturn/pluto to me is very much like the tower in tarot, everything gets turned upside down and you cant pick up the pieces of what was you have to work with what is and keep going

my own personal experience of those transits has left me in a completely shifted life, for the better ultimately i think

posted April 15, 2020 06:07 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by teasel:
http://www.timesreporter.com/news/20200413/lives-claimed-by-c oronavirus-ohioans-lose-family-friends-to-pandemic/1

---

posted April 15, 2020 03:44 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Dumuzi:
how are you holding up?

---