posted April 12, 2020 10:39 PM            

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Originally posted by hypatia238:
We made it through the SPANISH FLU and survived that and this so far is nothing compared to the Spanish Flue but if this does get to Spanish Flu levels which I don't think it will, we still need to be able to work to survive and accept the reality people will die. I just find it interesting how some people think is an option to not work indefinitely, like they are not in touch with the reality of how things work.

Back when we did not have antibiotics and anyone could die from an infection or a cold people still did their daily routine and accepted that death could happen out of nowhere and is part of life. A society cannot function if people stay at home indefinitely and as long as we are all grocery shopping this thing is going to spread anyways bc we all go grocery shopping and yet we are shutting everything else down. In the meantime people are dying from drug overdose at a much higher rate yearly than the coronavirus.

Yes there are so many unknowns, this thing every time it hits you can weaken your body more and more as it does not seem to be developing herd immunity so far so it will eventually take a toll on your body even if you survive it if lets say it keeps hitting you every year, I am aware of this, I am also aware that it took a SUPER long time, many many years for a vaccine to be discovered for the Spanish Flu.

However, I guess I rather die from this virus but have food on the table and a cozy home to die in than die from this virus on the streets hungry, cold and homeless. So yes a strong economy while we figure this out is preferable.

I am just sharing a different point of view.

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there's jobs if you care about working and are comfortable risking exposure, you aren't going out to get them in spite of being concerned about working and accepting of death though

posted April 12, 2020 10:41 PM            

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Originally posted by hypatia238:
Good point, Capricorn is known for delays so maybe when it enters Aquarius at end of year we will have found a cure or vaccine. Fingers Crossed.

But even NOW the death rates are leveling off so maybe the treatments they are using in the hospitals are helping.

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posted April 13, 2020 01:03 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by hypatia238:
We made it through the SPANISH FLU and survived that and this so far is nothing compared to the Spanish Flue but if this does get to Spanish Flu levels which I don't think it will, we still need to be able to work to survive and accept the reality people will die. I just find it interesting how some people think is an option to not work indefinitely, like they are not in touch with the reality of how things work.

Back when we did not have antibiotics and anyone could die from an infection or a cold people still did their daily routine and accepted that death could happen out of nowhere and is part of life. A society cannot function if people stay at home indefinitely and as long as we are all grocery shopping this thing is going to spread anyways bc we all go grocery shopping and yet we are shutting everything else down. In the meantime people are dying from drug overdose at a much higher rate yearly than the coronavirus.

Yes there are so many unknowns, this thing every time it hits you can weaken your body more and more as it does not seem to be developing herd immunity so far so it will eventually take a toll on your body even if you survive it if lets say it keeps hitting you every year, I am aware of this, I am also aware that it took a SUPER long time, many many years for a vaccine to be discovered for the Spanish Flu.

However, I guess I rather die from this virus but have food on the table and a cozy home to die in than die from this virus on the streets hungry, cold and homeless. So yes a strong economy while we figure this out is preferable.

I am just sharing a different point of view.

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posted April 13, 2020 01:30 AM            

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Originally posted by anonymidarkness:
You wont be left to eat that food if you die...

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posted April 13, 2020 01:31 AM            

**** what state are you in i could get you one this week if you're closeby, you want it?

you make a lot of noise but back it up with nothing, i'm just saying put your money where your mouth is and explaining to you that quarantine and prevantive measures are what the healthcare system is doing to stop the spread

you're saying they're doing something right but then don't want to comply with the measures being taken

posted April 13, 2020 01:38 AM            

seems hypocritical to me

especially considering what i'm getting from you is concern about not working and being comfortable with the possibility of dying

if you got both going on find one of the many jobs that need workers and are essential

posted April 13, 2020 01:43 AM            

------------------
Soul Stars Astrology by The Declinations Guy
Expert birth chart rectification

posted April 13, 2020 02:01 AM            

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Originally posted by hypatia238:
Like I said to you in another thread I get were you are coming from and like you I am following all precautions and been safe but shutting down the economy for too long can end up making this whole thing worst and that is all I am saying...I am just offering an opinion to get people thinking and discussing that is all.

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No!

You said in the same thread

posted April 13, 2020 04:45 AM            

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Originally posted by teasel:
12th house rules some kind of confinement, too.

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Funny, on 20th march my Country Serbia has declared emergency state which gave the right to those that rule the country to implement Police Hour, for the weekends we get 60hr ones - on 20th march the conjunction was falling in Serbias 12th house!

Any citizen that entered the state had to stay isolated for 14 days, transit mars was in 12th house and it rules Serbias 9th house! Mars and pluto rule our 9th and 10th houses - all except essential buisnisses observes losses or were basicly shut down, people got fired over night!

Transit jupiter in 12 nataly rules 11th - social distancing comes very hard to my people, we are very social!

And finaly saturn rules 1st (our country image) and 12th - the theories on behind the scenes stuff politicians are doing with trying to make us their prisioners and what , them trying to control news, them hiding the facts from the public - its all murky.

Serbias 6th house is in cancer and on that day moon was falling in Serbias 1st house - health becoming important, that transit moon fell between natal chiron (the doctor) and neptune (the healer) neptune nataly rules Serbias 2nd house - so transit moon ruler of 6th activated issues with money - we did not have enough respirators, masks, gloves, sanitizers, medical staff, hospitals ready for the pandemic etc

I want to also say that last time Serbia had pandemic it was variola vera , and people were also made to stay put for 3 months, luckily the vaccine for variola existed so people knew it will end soon, covid 19 has no vaccine ready for us - variola vera was confirmed on 14th march 1972 and the transit MOON was also in the 1st house, north node was directly on the ascendant of the Serbia i live in but this Serbia came to exist in 2006 - i made chart for Serbia in 1972 and transit moon also fell in its 1st house and also nataly ruled 6th house but also 5th.

posted April 13, 2020 04:52 AM            

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Originally posted by Belage:
Parallels and declinations are not my forte, but I read with interest your post.

I want to point out that I believe that TCM has helped the Chinese along with conventional medicine to deal effectively with the virus.

the link you supplied on TCM is appreciated, but you know, in the west, the medical and scientific establishmenst do not acknowledge nor respect research and studies made in China/Macau. If a similar study was to be made IN THE WEST at a western validated institution, it would carry more weight. Hopes this happens sooner rather than later.

Perhaps this is where Neptune will come in. Dissolving some of the Virgoan restrictions on what is considered Healthcare and what is not. The inclusion of integrative medicine to the current western model of medicine is a long time coming and should not be delayed any further if we are to achieve a more balanced healthcare model.

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posted April 13, 2020 05:26 AM            

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Originally posted by Kannon McAfee:
Thank you.

I want to qualify what I said above about the geometric rate of spread (doubling every 3 days or so). Initially, it will appear to do that as more people go to ER, get tested, etc. But that rate of cases does not continue as in the mistaken, speculative medium.com article I shared. China's fight with this is basically done after 3 months. They closed their last makeshift emergency COVID-19 hospital on March 11. So the rate of spread has a surge, a peak, then goes down again, just like a bell curve.

I think the problem comes with when this is being presented as if it were 'sneeze AIDS' and we may be living with this monster contagion recirculating in the population like HIV, etc. There is ZERO evidence for that so far.

So rather than jumping immediately into speculation, it is important to get the hard data and filter it for demographics, locale, other health risks and diagnoses, so that some clarity and sanity is introduced.

Otherwise, we all fall right into the consciousness trap of 'worst case scenario' in which fear causes us to express the worst potentials in the Saturn-Pluto effect. Some good within that aspect is: more intelligent, cautious use of resources, caution when dealing with unknowns, delving into deep learning, and examining critically one's own unconscious response or personal agendas. I'm having to do that like anyone else to make the best of this situation. I've already had pretty significant changes in my outlook, social life, etc, during the last week.

I'll give another example of a news article that is engaging in the spread of unwarranted fear and anxiety ...

Wrong headline originally written as CNBC: Coronavirus found in Princess Cruise ship cabins up to 17 days after passengers left.

Some people have continued to share this article in its uncorrected state. The title has since been corrected:

Coronavirus [b]RNA found in Princess Cruise ship cabins up to 17 days after passengers left.

Before the title was corrected you had to read down to the bottom of the article to see a note about the correction that added RNA:
[/B]

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posted April 13, 2020 05:40 AM            

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Originally posted by Belage:
Excellent analysis. Will businesses and countries learn to diversify their sources of supplies? That could be one important lesson for the global economy.

I think another lesson is also at play. This virus mortality (Pluto) has been hard on older folks (Capricorn) especially those with co-morbidities, while relatively sparing the young (Jupiter). It asks, what is healthy aging?

People are living longer lives due to the advances in medicine. Great! But this has lulled many people into thinking that relying on pills and medical interventions is the way to grow old, instead of actively bettering their health by improving their diet and making definitive lifestyle changes. This misplaced reliance strains the healthcare system in ways that are becoming unsustainable.

Case in point, Why haven't we tackled the obesity epidemic yet? Why are we still having an epidemic of diabetes GLOBALLY? diabetes was confirmed as The global epidemic when Neptune entered Pisces in 2011. Obesity and diabetes are illnessess that could be prevented and even solved with lifestyle changes. We cannot blame the government for this. The government does not hold your hand and shove foods down Your throat. We must take responsibility for our choices of food and activity. Instead lately, while these epidemic continue unabated, there has been the burgeoning movement called "fat acceptance"which seeks to normalize obesity. Neptune in Pisces is contributing to that and asking us to stop stigmatizing obese people, and I am all for it, but health cannot be disregarded without paying a price.

What the lesson is trying to say is, healthy aging does not come from pills and medical interventions. Healthcare is an crucial adjunct but it is NOT health. Health comes from years of daily or consistent practices of proper and responsible eating of wholesome foods, properly moving your body through some sort of exercise, avoiding excesses like drugs and excess alcohol, getting proper rest and sleep, and leading a healthy lifestyle. And don't wait when you are old to start doing those things, after most of your vital organs are already impacted. Start when you are still young, it will make your old age so much healthier.

I think that is the other global lesson we need to learn. I am not sure people are ready for it though. Perhaps by the time Pluto ends its journey in Capricorn, they will.

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posted April 13, 2020 08:07 AM            

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Originally posted by hypatia238:
[img]https://i.ibb.co/z5fKFQr/FB-IMG-1586754101838.jpg[/img]

I literally came across this a few minutes ago. There is a difference between disagreeing and been committed to not understanding someone and twisting everything they say, I consider that more like an enemy and I dont talk with people that want to hurt me or belittle me.

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posted April 13, 2020 12:40 PM            

@hypatia I cannot agree with your fears (lol as if fears were opinions) because your whole reasoning is based on the idea that this economy is worth preserving and I really think it isn’t.
I have said for a while our society deserves the Pluto treatment and now it gets it, with the blessing of Saturn, I cannot see that as a wholly bad thing (come on sis, you too have the conjunction natal, don’t you see what I see? 😊 ).
At first I was joking about the good old pandemics such as the plague, but those were next level and more about direct survival, this pandemic confronts us to what we are, what we do and have been doing, it’s a beautiful example of Saturn-Pluto together, we are being urged to change, but only because we haven’t learnt our lessons well.
I remember on that thread that got closed, or moved (I don’t really know, I have to say I didn’t really see the problem with it, but then again I only read diagonally ) when Belage argued that people needed the economy to stay alive, but that’s not entirely true. This economy that we’ve had, was and still is killing millions, some fast, some slow, but putting on the table a question that essentially amounts to saying “shouldn’t we consider saving this economy as a priority Vs saving as many humans lives as we can” is just wrong. I imagine it’s way more difficult to see for someone who thrives or goes by easily in this economy and in this society as a whole, but trust me, it is not the only way we can live and it is wrong.
I can’t remember where, but I saw a picture of a hospital whose staff has painted letters on its windows that read “capitalism is the real virus”, another funny picture that went viral on the net shows a tyrannosaurus going “oh **** , the economy!” as a meteor is about to crash and destroy earth.
This economy is only pretending to die so we give it cash, just like a greedy, unaware of any sense of measure baby, stock exchange can crash, stay dead for a thousand years and then be magically reborn through the beauty of math, because it’s only calculation of the virtual value or a virtual entity. Human lives are real, organic, the people who have died from the virus won’t rise up again (I know, sorry, zombie apocalypse theorists ^^). So, how can we even stop for a second and consider saving the economy has any importance?
The only way the death of this economy will entail more human deaths is if humans stubbornly decide to keep on living by its principles.
This economy is wrong, this economy is why our hospitals are crowded, this economy is why we are running out of masks, this economy is why the communication around numbers has been so suspicious, this economy is why our planet is dying, this economy is why so many people can’t afford to be treated for that virus or anything else, this economy is why lockdown is being bad for this economy, because this economy does not have our interest at heart, because it has no heart.
Lockdown is not only the only thing that makes sense and actually works in scientific terms against the virus, it’s also our best weapon against this economy.
I remember you said you felt covid was earth’s way of telling us “enough” and punishing us for our behaviour towards it, if you can’t change your ways I’ll destroy your very life (Pluto much? 😉 ), I kind of share this view; now extend it to the Saturn side of things, add a grain of socialism, it’s like most of the world is on strike now, a very Saturnian way of saying “if you can’t hear me and we can’t work with proper discipline towards a healthy, sound and stable goal together, then I’ll unleash my discipline on you and freeze everything (see how you make your big bucks without the busy bees)”.
This economy is necessary because we’ve allowed it to possess us, because we know nothing else, because however ****** it may be, it’s our comfort. Saturn-Pluto offers us a beautiful opportunity to step out of that comfort zone and recreate a better zone, let the economy crash and burn, let humanity be reborn from that in a healthier, sounder, more stable way.
That is all we can hope for. Will it happen? Well, if a majority of people doubt like you do, considering putting a sick economy in danger a bad thing, and others don’t doubt but think in terms of money, money, money, well, we may go out again before it’s time and sacrifice lives to spare the economy and you’ll probably be able to count me in the suicides of the next few years because the system won’t stop from getting uglier.
If all you can think of is the economy then you’ll agree for insane restrictions (more bad Saturn) such as forcing people to work 100 hours a week on minimum wage to make up for the losses, and health, entry level jobs, the people we clap for today and call heroes, will be the first enslaved and destroyed for the realisation of this “reconstruction”. Except it won’t be a reconstruction, it will be chasing an old toxic lover for one more hit because the urge of addiction is too tempting. A real reconstruction implies to do something new, a structure that will thrive on what it has learnt from the defects of its predecessor.
That an economy cannot sustain a lockdown designed to spare humanity and save human lives is a massive flaw.
I mean, if we really wanted, we could cancel all the debts everywhere, it’s just numbers in machines, you don’t believe your money is actually on your bank account, do you? It’s just a number allocated to you, we have enough computer geniuses to create algorithms to make us buy shoes we don’t need and date people we don’t like but they couldn’t make the computers believe everything is fine by altering the numbers in everyone’s favour? The fact they won’t do it, doesn’t mean it can’t be done, they just want to protect this economy, this economy needs billionaires and starving children, it cannot take equality, decency, sharing or fairness, which is why I see no problem in it going **** itself 😊.

This is a time now, where something massive is bringing all these to the surface, Pluto is showing what has been boiling under the surface for a while, in economic terms, it is NOT about a virus.
You worry: what happens in 8 months when our bank accounts are empty and we have nothing to exchange for food at the shops? Maybe we just carry on doing what we do, work from home, and get food for that, without notion of money, since no one will have any money anymore. Of course human nature isn’t so nice and it will demand a whole reconstruction and set of rules (lucky some of us are lawyers and philosophers and…), and there may be global restrictions for a while (where you’d get food for free but not just anything, just basic items) until we have a better system, but would it be so bad to go on a diet after lockdown? Would it be worse than literally killing yourself at work (or watching half the population do so if you’re lucky to be someone who profits from this economy) just to get a toxic, human life killing system?

posted April 13, 2020 02:38 PM            

Is not about putting a price tag on life at all, I am actually just as much concerned for human life as you are Moonbeth, this is why I don't want people to be in lockdown forever or why I worry about the economy crashing bc if the economy crashes we could die but for different reasons, this is a concern about our survival too, survival can be threatened just as much by the economy crashing and I am trying to keep this in mind as well and not be blind sided by this and ignore that reality. This will also make crime go up, suicide go up and murder go up.

There is also the reality that humans are social animals and we are been asked to go completely against our nature and this makes sense for a few months but not for it to become the new normal, it will affect our mental health and not having a job and worrying about survival will also affect our mental health and then if you end up getting sick when you are isolated and stressing out about survival and when you are going to eat next and potentially homeless your chances of surviving this VIRUS if you get it under those circumstances are then A LOT lower.

posted April 13, 2020 02:44 PM            

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Originally posted by Moonbeth:
@anonymidarkness

@hypatia I cannot agree with your fears (lol as if fears were opinions) because your whole reasoning is based on the idea that this economy is worth preserving and I really think it isn’t.

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posted April 13, 2020 02:45 PM            

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Originally posted by Orange:
a very good choice! Stay away from abusive people

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posted April 13, 2020 02:47 PM            

For a while NOW through this Crazy Crisis we are all dealing with TR PHOLUS has been conjuncting Tr SOUTHNODE!

So we may indeed collectively be experiencing a turning point were we are outgrowing some cappy traits on a collective level and refocusing more on human connection over achievement! WE are re-discovering how much we value connecting with each other!!!! WE really are.

This is the issue with the dichotomy of our political system, that the right is seeing as money hungry folks but most people that fall on the right spectrum that are financially conservative worry about the economy precisely because they CARE about human life. Most people on the right are not rich folks, the 1% is 1% and this 1% includes folks from the left too.

posted April 13, 2020 03:33 PM            

yeah it's definitely an interesting way of saturn and pluto reshaping things

while i don't ultimately agree with socialist values i do agree that society definitely needed to take a strong hit to change some **** , and saturn and pluto have a way of being harsh (had them hit some major **** in my own chart recently)

there are jobs though, people act like there aren't but there's plenty it's just that you're doing **** no one wants to do

i'm going to be spending my night with dementia patients in a quarantined ward because nearly all of them have tested positive, and a lot of people are walking out and away to go sit at home (understandably) instead of be there and at a certain point if no one is willing to do it it's people like this who are going to suffer

valuing a system over human life is an ultimately worthless mentality, especially when saturn and pluto are involved you can essentially only go "guess that's how things are now" and just let **** ride out

because neither is a force people can really control ultimately, fighting for what was when they **** your **** up is pointless

seeing that firsthand on an individual level (they hit my ascendant/descendant axis, my nodes, my venus, my moon, my ic/mc) and on a global scale now and it's pretty crazy ****

bit of a rush though gotta give them that

i like the way you said everything you did though, while i don't 100% see eye to eye with you, you put it all beautifully

like i said though when **** is out of sight out of mind people generally don't grasp the full weight, seeing things up close is different

posted April 13, 2020 03:59 PM            

I am afraid and I am positive at the same time. Afraid to see how the world has changed forever post 2020. Afraid to envision the horrors if this virus mutates dangerously in fall.

I am pro life , if at all I have to make a choice. We all have to die one day I know this. But can't this pause last longer so we do what we should have always done?

posted April 13, 2020 04:10 PM            

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Originally posted by hypatia238:
I mean I completely stand by what I said in the post right after your post but I was thinking the other day that maybe all world DEBT should be completely eliminated and we get to do a re-birth and start from Scratch. Not sure how realistic this is but it sounds good.

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My policy is, if you dream/hope, do it big, if you restrain it, it's called planning

Aww Hypa, I know love, there’s no judgment of you in my judgement of the system, I hear the reasons why you think the way you do 😊 I don’t fear so much, I mean I have fears but they’re not virus related. Except when I have to go to the shop and people don’t respect distances and such, other than that, I have no virus related fear.
Those words that you wrote:
“There is also the reality that humans are social animals and we are been asked to go completely against our nature and this makes sense for a few months but not for it to become the new normal, it will affect our mental health and not having a job and worrying about survival will also affect our mental health and then if you end up getting sick when you are isolated and stressing out about survival and when you are going to eat next and potentially homeless your chances of surviving”
That is exactly my life before the virus., and it still is a lot of the same now.
You see it as unbearable in the long run (and then I also wonder why you are so pessimistic, no one talked about more than a few months anyway… it’s been , what? 2 months and even if at worst it went up to 5 or 6, it still wouldn’t be a norm, we’d recover (emotionally), you somehow make it sound like we’ve been 8 months in and are looking at years of life like this it has never been suggested, are you sure your fear doesn’t magnify this a bit for you?) because you’re fortunate enough to discover it now, and even then, you only discover the prospects of it now because it’s not a reality, but for many like me (including lots of health workers) this has been our reality for years, decades. A life on minimum wage brings this, it doesn’t take more; isolation comes so quickly when your life is: crazy underpaid hours/fears and anxiety about salary/no money to go out or do things. My life has only changed a little bit since lockdown. Why is the mental health of sheltered people more precious than those of people like me whose mental health has been tested in rough ways like this for decades?
All you say is true Hypa, I just honestly think you’ve been blessed with a life lovely enough (and not just blessed, you also earned a bunch of it, not diminishing that, it’s just that so many people work so hard and never get the fruit of it, it wouldn’t be fair to them to say everyone who has a nice life just worked hard and never had any luck), so that you don’t actually see what this economy does and you still see it as a lesser evil than the virus, but for many of us, it’s not better or worse, it’s exactly the same degree of evil, only a different face.
I know people who hope lockdown carries on for another 2 months because they were so physically exhausted, it’s a picnic for them to just worry about rent. Every case is different and it’s not fair for us to express an opinion for the community based on our individual situation (if it is though, can I go on record as proposing we make mandatory hermetic tanks for people to smoke in? I mean they want the poison, they should have it full force and my wounded health not at all lol)

Of course it’s a complex issue, but just as it is shades of grey I think the nature of the economy is equally ambiguous and you treating as some thing that essentially protects us and watches over us is as innocent and incomplete as me hoping its complete destruction could bring about a utopian world. Just because it takes care of you doesn’t mean it works for the greater good. At the moment you are being asked to jeopardise what works for you, what protects you (because it is true for you) to stay home and protect others and I think it is very interesting, because I live the opposite, for the first time in my life, the people around me are asked to do something to protect “me” (since my health is part of the world’s health we’re all trying to protect), when my entire life I have had to spend hours at work at silly salaries so a lot of people could enjoy bigger benefits and better protection than I ever will. And I freak out just as much as you do for the record lol I just have no choice because the economy doesn’t care about my mental health.

I know my dream won’t come true because it would require every world leader to go for it, otherwise the economy would stay in place and crush those who try to go out of it, but even as I know that, it will never make me believe in the economy the way you do because all my life it has hindered me and tried to kill me.
I am actually envious of you and happy for you because you get to fear things I have long integrated as normal parts of daily life. You experience this for the first time, it breaks your routine and I am so envious of that because for me, so far, this virus is mostly just another Tuesday 😊

What I’m saying is I see nothing wrong with you thinking/feeling the way you do, but, all in all, it is not normal to want to go back to work for FEAR of suffering from a lack of money, a fear so great it scares you less than a lethal virus.

It’s not normal to fear poverty more than a lethal virus, this is what is wrong to me, and it’s not something that you think, so it’s really not against you, it’s something we are all subject to, even if we respond to it differently. We both fear the economy more than the virus and it’s all shades of ****** up lol