posted March 23, 2020 12:23 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by hypatia238:
I found a connection between SATURN and NEPTUNE, there is Saturn Septile Neptune aspect that takes place January 19 2019.

January 19 2020 Transit

"Saturn septile Neptune: Inspired by the combination of control and restraint with idealism, caringness and mystical significance; inspired by the idea of self-abnegation in the cause of humanity; able to express this creatively, depending on other aspects."
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/astrological-aspects/septile-7th-harmonic.php

This septile will happen again exact July 20, 2020 during a new moon in Cancer.

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I have never paid attention to SEPTILES before, but I will say that any aspect, minor or major made by two planets who are in THEIR elements (Neptune rules Pisces and Saturn rules Capricorn), has to be significant and more powerful than usual.

posted March 23, 2020 12:46 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Belage:
I have never paid attention to SEPTILES before, but I will say that any aspect, minor or major made by two planets who are in THEIR elements (Neptune rules Pisces and Saturn rules Capricorn), has to be significant and more powerful than usual.

I do believe that the December SEXTILE of those two planets was a harbinger of things to come and shows the way of resolving the issues.

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Good point about both planets been at home, I think January 20th the septile was slightly tighter just under 1 degree. July 2020 it will happen again.

Septiles fascinate me.

posted March 23, 2020 01:03 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by hypatia238:
The fist recorded case of Coronavirus was on December 1 2019 on this day I see this happening transit wise..

December 2019:
Saturn conjunt Pluto.
Saturn sextile NEPTUNE

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Yes indeed. Another powerful element in transit at that time was South node eclipse in Capricorn that involved the conjunction of Jupiter, Venus and Mars.

Eclipses are in my astro book the MOST significant astrological events, from which everything else follows. This was a South Node eclipse, traditionally interpreted as a point of loss on the material level. And Jupiter on that eclipse has no doubt increased that loss as Jupiter tends to expand everything it touches.

The eclipse trine to Uranus in Taurus should have told us that huge cataclysmic changes were in the way in terms of structures and stability, as both signs, Capp and Taurus are known for their loves of stability and security.

posted March 23, 2020 01:14 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Kannon McAfee:
1. Microscopic life forms and particulates of chemistry are ruled by [b]Neptune.

The onset of this as a spreading infection outside a local outbreak (January) was synchronous with Neptune semi-square (45°) Uranus, while in declination Neptune (6° south) was in 15° aspect with Saturn (21° south).

2. Pluto as the outermost planet helps set the context for challenges to world economic, health, government infrastructures, especially once Saturn began its conjunction to Pluto in mid-late Capricorn.

Pluto was also parallel the South Lunar Node and Jupiter was conjunct it. Jupiter here is the expansion principle and while in direct motion correlates to the social spread of the contagion.

Jupiter is slowing down in its direct motion and will go Rx May 14 (through Sept 12). That is the time in which the expansion principle turned inward correlates to educated medical and scientific researchers contributing something more useful in dealing with the contagion. Saturn will be Rx for that entire period as well (starting May 10). Only during this Rx period will there be enough critical peer review of the data to sift out facts from fear and begin applying more reason to the problem.

South Node alignment with Pluto, Saturn = karma factor as well as fear issues revisiting from historical plagues, etc.

The Saturn-Pluto factors exacerbated by Jupiter are playing a much stronger role here than the actual contagion. There is a lot of historically based fear generated by the mainstream medical germ theory of disease, which is incomplete and has consistently overestimated its role in solving these infectious diseases. Notice that 85% of Chinese patience with this disease were treated with Traditional Chinese Medicine (TCM).

The social distancing, while at least temporarily needed to halt global, and the economic consequences to stock markets, etc, are manifestations of fear in the face of incomplete knowledge, and lack of preparedness = Saturn conjunct Pluto in Capricorn. This was part karma, part reckoning with dystopian fears of past plagues revisiting humanity, part common sense preparedness needing to be updated instead of relying on authoritarianism.

My blog articles on the topic: http://kannonmcafee.wordpress.com/2020/03/18/80834/ http://kannonmcafee.wordpress.com/2020/03/20/covid-19-separating-fact-from- fiction-and-speculation/

[/B]

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Parallels and declinations are not my forte, but I read with interest your post.

I want to point out that I believe that TCM has helped the Chinese along with conventional medicine to deal effectively with the virus.

the link you supplied on TCM is appreciated, but you know, in the west, the medical and scientific establishmenst do not acknowledge nor respect research and studies made in China/Macau. If a similar study was to be made IN THE WEST at a western validated institution, it would carry more weight. Hopes this happens sooner rather than later.

posted March 23, 2020 01:23 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by hypatia238:
Good point about both planets been at home, I think January 20th the septile was slightly tighter just under 1 degree. July 2020 it will happen again.

Septiles fascinate me.

The sextile is the onset of the virus been born and the septile I feel is more the how are you going to handle this collectively? How are you going to respond to this? IMO

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posted March 23, 2020 02:38 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Belage:
Parallels and declinations are not my forte, but I read with interest your post.

I want to point out that I believe that TCM has helped the Chinese along with conventional medicine to deal effectively with the virus.

the link you supplied on TCM is appreciated, but you know, in the west, the medical and scientific establishmenst do not acknowledge nor respect research and studies made in China/Macau. If a similar study was to be made IN THE WEST at a western validated institution, it would carry more weight. Hopes this happens sooner rather than later.

Perhaps this is where Neptune will come in. Dissolving some of the Virgoan restrictions on what is considered Healthcare and what is not. The inclusion of integrative medicine to the current western model of medicine is a long time coming and should not be delayed any further if we are to achieve a more balanced healthcare model.

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I see virgo as a sign that is highly into natural remedies and herbs actually. This rigidity with the healthcare system in the US around been open to alternative medicine I don't see it as a VIRGO interference, virgo is mutable and earthy, like a pagan witch vibe if anything lol. I have a pharmacy of natural herbs/supplements since I was a teen, I have an obsession with herbs. I feel this is the virgo in me more than the neptune/pisces in me.

Rigidity I feel is more Saturn, Saturn likes structure and restricts so will be less fluid and more rigid around these types of issues preferring to stick to the states quo and big established corporations like big pharma. I don't think Virgo gives a F about big established corporations, they tend to be more free thinkers and mavericks if you meet enough of us specially when it comes to health, we tend to prefer natural forms of treatment, if you meet enough of us you will notice this.

posted March 23, 2020 04:36 PM            

There is a natural alliance between health and big business, exemplified by the natural trine between Virgo and Capricorn. There is BIG money to be made out of healthcare and this has been happening for quite a while now.

I guess the big game changer here is Pluto and saturn together in Capp.

When Pluto was in Virgo in the 60s, along with Uranus, the back to earth movement started in earnest, and natural food stores took off and started to become an ubiquitous part of our urban landscape.

posted March 24, 2020 04:59 AM            

Neptune is gradually moving towards a sextile with Pluto and Pluto will move Rx towards it in May-June. There will be better coordination of the transpersonal sensibilities of intuition, compassion, and deeper perspective kicking in by then among many more people.

This is a Saturn-Pluto lesson in fear, propaganda, and control -- more than anything else.

I wrote an article tonight on why the Tokyo games should proceed as scheduled (July 24 - Aug 9):
http://kannonmcafee.wordpress.com/2020/03/24/tokyo-olympics-should-proceed-as-scheduled/

------------------
Soul Stars Astrology by The Declinations Guy
Expert birth chart rectification

posted March 24, 2020 08:41 AM            

But I am genuinely confused.

One of your arguments for closing Hypathia's thread was that people were not taking the virus threat seriously. And to that effect you posted the alarming article from Jason Scott Warner and you advised that people should get their information "from the CDC, from local medical and health professionals and from your own qualified health practitioner as to what you personally should do."

Yet your very informative blog post got its information from international medical and health professionals that are somewhat downplaying the severity of the issue and conflicting with the CDC and the local US medical and health professionals.

And you are now saying the Tokyo olympics should not be postponed, they should continue business as usual.

Your blogpost states: There is mounting evidence — mostly from lack of convincing evidence of SARS-CoV-2’s supposed virulence or deadliness — that what is happening is more a pandemic of fear generating authoritarianism than a virus.

OK

posted March 24, 2020 09:05 AM            

I offended many by those statements, when I was only trying to explain Jupiter's position there and its voice. Jupiter is not at its shining best in the home of his mythological enemy, Saturn. so its message is going to be disturbing. But the conversation about its voice is going to take place sooner or later.

Well fellow astrologers, the conversation has now officially started!! Texas Lt. Governor Dan Patrick has given an interview to Fox news where he has stated what I described as Jupiter's position.

Texas Lt. Gov. Dan Patrick says a failing economy is worse than coronavirus: He would rather perish from the new coronavirus than see the economy destroyed for his grandchildren by overreaction to the disease.

https://www.texastribune.org/2020/03/23/texas-lt-gov-dan-patrick-says-bad- economy-worse-coronavirus/

posted March 24, 2020 12:44 PM            

I have already outlined Jupiter's voice. I will now be outlining Saturn's voice. Saturn is the old man of the zodiac, and by nature serious and restricting. and being in its own home, Saturn feels strong in saying: We need to be afraid; practice social distancing, people should stay home -to save mostly older people. Saturn's concern for the economy is practically gone because Pluto is threatening its very survival.

Also, with Saturn comes Karma. Saturn will use karma to teach those who don't listen to its urging. Case in point, Senator Ron Paul who had previously dismissed the threat of Coronavirus and blocked or/and voted against coronavirus packages has become the first US Senator to test positive for Coronavirus. Senator Ron Paul is now changing his tune. He is now caling for more compassion and broader testings.

posted March 24, 2020 02:20 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Belage:
^^^^
Kannon, your article was truly eye opening. I thank you for it and I will be adding the information therein to my resources on the global crisis.

But I am genuinely confused.

One of your arguments for closing Hypathia's thread was that people were not taking the virus threat seriously. And to that effect you posted the alarming article from Jason Scott Warner and you advised that people should get their information "from the CDC, from local medical and health professionals and from your own qualified health practitioner as to what you personally should do."

Yet your very informative blog post got its information from international medical and health professionals that are somewhat downplaying the severity of the issue and conflicting with the CDC and the local US medical and health professionals.

And you are now saying the Tokyo olympics should not be postponed, they should continue business as usual.

Your blogpost states: There is mounting evidence — mostly from lack of convincing evidence of SARS-CoV-2’s supposed virulence or deadliness — that what is happening is more a pandemic of fear generating authoritarianism than a virus.

OK

I am not trying to be a **** -starter. I really am not. But I am genuinely confused. Is this a reversal of position, or let me rephrase it, an evolution in your position?

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The first stage of grief is denial and receiving news like this that is forcing you to alter your life drastically in response to it will generate a grief response collectively to some degree or another.

I think my thread overall was open to considering all possibilities and was not about controlling information. In situations like this we have to remain open to all input, understanding that we don't know with certainty anything or how this thing is going to play out but deciding that this is definitely about fear manipulated by people in power and committing to this with certainty I feel is also reckless.

We know with certainty that hospitals are getting flooded and people have a tendency to avoid going to hospitals for flue like symptoms, they have to be in real bad shape to feel they must go to the hospital so this says a lot, so to say basically "Oh people are just panicking and been manipulated by authority" and then go shut down my thread claiming the info on my thread is not inline with what CDC is saying was hypocritical and stemmed more from his own personal bias, my thread overall was more in line with what the CDC is saying than his article as you are noticing.

The first comment he made on my thread was in line with his article he recently posted, later he posted something along these lines "oh it turns out this is very contagious so be careful." I replied to this with is also more fatal based on the numbers out there even the numbers generated by CDC for that matter but I linked him to a source that was not directly from CDC so he used that as an excuse to close my thread. He did not like that I pointed out that is more fatal, at least 10 times more fatal than the flue but actually WHO says is 34 times more fatal, I showed him an example of the math and what that implies. Next thing I know my thread is closed.

This is real and is happening and projections indicate so far that it is more fatal than the flue (at the very least 10 times more fatal than the flue but WHO Says the Coronavirus Global Death Rate Is 3.4% so 34 times more fatal than the flue). However, we will get through it and it will not be the end of the world but it is serious.

My father pointed out that historically this is the norm for people to experience severe disruptions of this nature for one reason or another at some point int their lifetime and that this is actually rare that up to now in our life time we have not dealt with something of this magnitude. He also was extremely positive while talking about this reality of our human history. We have been through worst and will get through this too.

posted March 24, 2020 03:06 PM            

I believe in being respectful of everybody's opinions as well, and I hope my posts in this forum have reflected this belief.

Because I am not infaillible, I give myself and others permission to evolve.

posted March 24, 2020 10:31 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Belage:
^^^^

I believe in being respectful of everybody's opinions as well, and I hope my posts in this forum have reflected this belief.

Because I am not infaillible, I give myself and others permission to evolve.

I believe that on this Coronavirus crisis, most of us are evolving in our opinions, shifting one way today, and another way tomorrow. We are mirroring the dialogue of Jupiter and Saturn, with the added fear factor injected by Pluto.

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Totally agree with you there, hell I can go back and forth on the same day about how I feel about it some days, it doesn't help I have moon in pisces in the 3rd house, I am very fluid in my thought process lol and add it opposes mercury in the 9H. It can take a while for me to settle into committing into this YES I AM SURE without a trace of a doubt lol, usually I just keep it open in my mind like "I think this and lean more towards this" or see the different sides and just let it be, I am the type to say both sides are correct.

posted March 25, 2020 08:42 PM            

Expect this to go on longer than you'd normally expect because in the mundane global astrology Saturn & Pluto's conjunction gets a wider orb (maybe up to 7°) than it does for transits to our natal charts.

If you read other posts at my blog like The Truth About Rx Drugs (a practical how-to) you'll see that I know how to sift through scientific study numbers and see past their misleading effect in how they are framed -- and wish I'd done that from the very start on this. I'm not saying there is any intentional attempt by CDC, local governments, or media, but fear colors things very dark!

You'll notice that what I referenced in my blog entry you read is actual medical statistics filtered from their raw state into their refined state as presented by experts in contagious diseases. I previously had not done that and regret sharing the medium.com article by the computer guy saying the spread was geometric (doubling every 3 days). It isn't. That was worst-case-scenario speculation based on raw data. Italy has given the world absolutely terrible raw data because of how it records cause of death (as well as for its very old population, its air pollution in N.Italy which is the worst in Europe). They'll probably have to change that after this.

The fear-based worst-scase-scenario assumptions and response is exactly you'd expect from Saturn conjunct Pluto -- a fear-based spasm of control measures.

That astrological factor does not represent the virus or infection itself, but the circumstances surrounding its emergence and the governmental and economic and public response to it.

The factor of Uranus semi-square Neptune has a lot to do with the confusion and delusion surrounding this phenomenon of wrongly framed information, misleading speculation, etc. It is a dynamic like a mini-square in which Uranus (collective mind, publicity) is in tension with Neptune (imagination, speculation). They are not in harmony with that aspect and it takes special effort to sift through what is real and what is not.

Even more so with the 15-degree aspect in declination between Saturn & Neptune. That puts people in an anxious state who have a difficult time thinking positively and thinking critically. Attempts at critical thinking for those who are not practiced at it in these kinds of situations tends to turn into an exercise in pessimism and anxiety, which worsens health from a psychological angle. It can literally affect the body negatively. And that is what we're seeing.

I don't care what your politics are, with the Saturn-Pluto conjunction, we need to be very watchful about government overreach -- and be prepared to communicate limits to government policies rather than simply submit to them in a state of ignorance and fear. In the rush of all this it becomes very, very easy for people to engage in the worst kind of peer pressure and scapegoating of individuals who refuse to obey some of these micromanaging orders about what we can and cannot do with our own bodies because of what 'might' happen to someone else.

The Governor of my state, Oregon, has pushed the limit in her executive order of this week, attempting to mislead people into "Stay home" when there are constitutional problems with such things. in a free society. Look at how we are literally being told to not touch our own faces. This is surreal, and bizarrely reminiscent of fundamentalist fear-based attitudes about things like masturbation in which children are told not to touch that, its dirty.

That's all I'll say for now.

------------------
Soul Stars Astrology by The Declinations Guy
Expert birth chart rectification

posted March 25, 2020 09:53 PM            

I personally have saturn conjunct pluto and I remember as a child I wanted to confront all my fears, I wanted to walk through fire so I could master all my fears and I knew intuitively that would take experience and burning yourself and I had courage and knew I would get through whatever I had to and would come out of it stronger, this doesn't take away that during times of crisis I feel some fear and can be shaken by the crisis. I feel that is how saturn conjunct pluto manifests, it gives you the strength to get through hard times and come out of it wiser, mastering one more fear. I do feel with every loss you also gain something and you become stronger and wiser and I feel that is the spirit of saturn conjunct pluto. Also, Saturn conjunct pluto can handle scarcity. I remember been a very understanding kid when my mother could not get me things I wanted, I would say mom only if you can afford it. Saturn rules my 2H. I was not spoiled or entitled.

But I also get saturn is technically afflicting pluto but this is my experience with this aspect personally so I have a hard time seeing this as a bad aspect although I clearly see it playing a role on this whole mess but maybe this is about us building up our resilience and confronting fears around death and shared resources! and learning that we can get through anything and be resourceful.

What is coming up a lot lately is the realization as a society that we depend a lot on other countries for important day to day things bc we don't make our own stuff, this in turn is leading to supermarkets been super low on supplies as we are not getting supplies from china we rely on right now. Even with Medicine, India and China make the medication we rely on.

On one hand this is life, we are interdependent on one another bc one person or nation cannot do it all (or can each nation be fully self-sustainable??) but this puts nations in a vulnerable position during times of crisis and maybe this is what is been tested, can WE count on each other during times of crisis and show up for one another or does this depend on how much is our survival at stake? OR do we need to re-structure/transform some things so we are not in such a vulnerable position during times of global crisis because global crises will happen periodically. On another hand, each country been fully equipped to provide for themselves what they need is a win win for everyone too and sounds super empowering for all nations to be in this position.

posted March 25, 2020 10:09 PM            

I want to qualify what I said above about the geometric rate of spread (doubling every 3 days or so). Initially, it will appear to do that as more people go to ER, get tested, etc. But that rate of cases does not continue as in the mistaken, speculative medium.com article I shared. China's fight with this is basically done after 3 months. They closed their last makeshift emergency COVID-19 hospital on March 11. So the rate of spread has a surge, a peak, then goes down again, just like a bell curve.

I think the problem comes with when this is being presented as if it were 'sneeze AIDS' and we may be living with this monster contagion recirculating in the population like HIV, etc. There is ZERO evidence for that so far.

So rather than jumping immediately into speculation, it is important to get the hard data and filter it for demographics, locale, other health risks and diagnoses, so that some clarity and sanity is introduced.

Otherwise, we all fall right into the consciousness trap of 'worst case scenario' in which fear causes us to express the worst potentials in the Saturn-Pluto effect. Some good within that aspect is: more intelligent, cautious use of resources, caution when dealing with unknowns, delving into deep learning, and examining critically one's own unconscious response or personal agendas. I'm having to do that like anyone else to make the best of this situation. I've already had pretty significant changes in my outlook, social life, etc, during the last week.

I'll give another example of a news article that is engaging in the spread of unwarranted fear and anxiety ...

Wrong headline originally written as CNBC: Coronavirus found in Princess Cruise ship cabins up to 17 days after passengers left.

Some people have continued to share this article in its uncorrected state. The title has since been corrected:

Coronavirus RNA found in Princess Cruise ship cabins up to 17 days after passengers left.

Before the title was corrected you had to read down to the bottom of the article to see a note about the correction that added RNA:

quote:

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Correction: This story was updated to reflect that SARS-CoV-2 RNA, not live virus, was identified on surfaces in cruise ship cabins up to 17 days after cabins were vacated on the Diamond Princess.

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------------------
Soul Stars Astrology by The Declinations Guy
Expert birth chart rectification

posted March 25, 2020 11:05 PM            

I enjoyed your response. It was enlightening.

posted March 25, 2020 11:08 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Kannon McAfee:
Thank you.

I want to qualify what I said above about the geometric rate of spread (doubling every 3 days or so). Initially, it will appear to do that as more people go to ER, get tested, etc. But that rate of cases does not continue as in the mistaken, speculative medium.com article I shared. China's fight with this is basically done after 3 months. They closed their last makeshift emergency COVID-19 hospital on March 11. So the rate of spread has a surge, a peak, then goes down again, just like a bell curve.

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Another wonderful post. I feel this makes sense what you are saying in my gut and mind it feels right but then I bring this up and the argument I hear is that China has been lying about their numbers most of the time bc they want to cover it up, this person says there is contradictory information between whistle blowers and what their government is saying, people who are counting the dead bodies are giving different numbers than their government. However, I think this speaks of your previous point that there is contradicting data around the numbers and you said very eloquently that you unpacked that, you referred to it as raw data versus refined data.

quote:

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Originally posted by Kannon McAfee:
I think the problem comes with when this is being presented as if it were 'sneeze AIDS' and we may be living with this monster contagion recirculating in the population like HIV, etc. There is ZERO evidence for that so far.

So rather than jumping immediately into speculation, it is important to get the hard data and filter it for demographics, locale, other health risks and diagnoses, so that some clarity and sanity is introduced.

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I hear you! yes!

I agree this AIDS theory smells like fear-mongering and good points you are making about not speculating and gathering more data. I agree. Hahaha I like how you put it "sneeze AIDS." It doesn't get more fear-mongering than that.

quote:

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Originally posted by Kannon McAfee:
[b]Otherwise, we all fall right into the consciousness trap of 'worst case scenario' in which fear causes us to express the worst potentials in the Saturn-Pluto effect. Some good within that is: more intelligent, cautious use of resources, caution when dealing with unknowns, delving into deep learning, and examining critically one's own unconscious response or personal agendas. I'm having to do that like anyone else to make the best of this situation. I've already had pretty significant changes in my outlook, social life, etc, during the last week.[/B]

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Great points astrologically and thanks for pointing the positives too. I have pluto conjunct saturn and I do like to always think of the worst case scenario but in my case I don't panic when I do, it helps me prepare for a solution bc paradoxically knowing about the worst case scenario and realizing I can get out of it somehow makes me feel calm and good like "oh I go this, worst case I have a plan." While I go through this mental exercise I am aware the worst case scenario is VERY unlikely to happen but I feel that just in case I processed it already. I suppose in some situations this isn't helpful and this may be one of them but usually I find it helpful. In this situation I find it helpful to just focus on what I can control and then tap into my jupiter and have faith is going to normalize and my neptune backs this up intuitively but yes all this constant information overload makes you question your own intuition a little bit at least.

posted March 25, 2020 11:17 PM            

33 some years ago, with Saturn/Pluto conjunction in the early degrees of Scorpio, we had the confirmed start of the AIDS epidemic. It was a SCARY time and it impacted sexual mores for generations to come. Heavy toll on the gay male population. Other demographics were also affected. There were scary predictions for many countries in Africa affected by the virus, the populations there were expected to become extinct. That didn't happen, even though the AIDS extracted a heavy toll.

I do agree with Kannon that the conjunction of Pluto and Saturn seems to indicate fear mongering.

ETA:
However, this conjunction is there to teach that SOMETHING needs to change. In the previous conjunction in Scorpio (Edited from Pluto), sign of sex and death, people needed to become more conscious of the use of sex and its implications. Exchanging intimate fluids on a grand scale is not without consequences.

posted March 25, 2020 11:25 PM            

^^Actually at some point in this mess I sat there and thought about the worst case scenario which is that I could die and prepared mentally for that possibility and now am at peace with this possibility as insane as that sounds, I don't like fear controlling me so this is how I deal with it so fear does not control me, this is saturn conjunct pluto in my natal manifesting for you. It helps me to prepare mentally for the worst case scenario. There are exceptions to this! there are some things I cannot mentally prepare myself to experience (e.g. going to prison, group rape, losing my eye site) but I do this type of exercise a lot and it helps me cope a significant portion of the time.

posted March 25, 2020 11:37 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Belage:
@ Hypatia,

33 some years ago, with Saturn/Pluto conjunction in the early degrees of Scorpio, we had the confirmed start of the AIDS epidemic. It was a SCARY time and it impacted sexual mores for generations to come. Heavy toll on the gay male population. Other demographics were also affected. There were scary predictions for many countries in Africa affected by the virus, the populations there were expected to become extinct. That didn't happen, even though the AIDS extracted a heavy toll.

I do agree with Kannon that the conjunction of Pluto and Saturn seems to indicate fear mongering.

ETA:
However, this conjunction is there to teach that SOMETHING needs to change. In the previous conjunction in Pluto, sign of sex and death, people needed to become more conscious of the use of sex and its implications. Exchanging intimate fluids on a grand scale is not without consequences.

This current conjunction is also there to teach us a lesson.

---

Okay very interesting! Thanks for pointing this out about the Aids epidemic, WOW and now this is coming back again with this coronavirus which like Kannon pointed out is been presented as "sneeze aids" so wow fascinating that this is circle-ling back around like this and again this fear of death comes tagging along with it, saturn conjunct pluto wants to prevent death and fears death bc it cannot be controlled.

I agree saturn likes to learn through experience and grow wiser so saturn will want to learn from all this and good will come out of it, I mentioned that in my super long previous post. Some of the speculations I made about this are:

What is coming up a lot lately is the realization as a society that we depend a lot on other countries for important day to day things bc we don't make our own stuff, this in turn is leading to supermarkets been super low on supplies as we are not getting supplies from china we rely on right now. Even with Medicine, India and China make the medication we rely on.

On one hand this is life, we are interdependent on one another bc one person or nation cannot do it all (or can each nation be fully self-sustainable??) but this puts nations in a vulnerable position during times of crisis and maybe this is what is been tested, can WE count on each other during times of crisis and show up for one another or does this depend on how much is our survival at stake? OR do we need to re-structure/transform some things so we are not in such a vulnerable position during times of global crisis because global crises will happen periodically. On another hand, each country been fully equipped to provide for themselves what they need is a win win for everyone too and sounds super empowering for all nations to be in this position.

Its interesting because Pluto thrives on vulnerability, it transforms through it by getting burn by giving others power over you and trusting others with the power to destroy you which leads to you getting burn and this leads to self-mastery as you learn to not give away too much of your power but saturn likes to not feel vulnerable, likes to feel in control and be prepared so is an interesting clash of energies that are conjuncting each other right now. We are getting burned right now collectively and I will tell you this, Saturn will want to learn from this!!!!!! You know it!

In another post I also hinted this same thing when I said: