posted May 12, 2014 06:33 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by PixieJane:
Yeah, that was brilliant, I was in awe when I read that.

I've been trying to figure out how Ami thinks/works and nothing I thought of fit upon closer scrutiny so I was left confused. But what 7G posted fits so perfectly and also goes into Ami studying psychology because so many people get into psychology to deal with their own inner demons, fail to, and then do harm to clients by projecting their inner demons on them for them to work it out. It's common enough that it's become more standard to make many psychologists undergo mandatory therapy themselves before being licensed to treat anyone else.

---

When i hear people saying that they've been going to a therapist "for years" - and it's still work in progress - that sounds like they're getting scammed. That so called therapist is either incapable at his job - or it's keeping them ill intentionally for the sake of its business. A therapist is not suppose to be just paid friend - he's suppose to find the real problem and a solution "that works for you (as we're not all alike)" - in dealing with that condition. So... i'd take it - it's really hard to find a good therapist that's also honest - one "that's not sicker than you are". Thus - projecting his own demons on you and making you feel sicker than you actually were ("oh so you're saying my parents abused me... Hmm, that does make sense, i mean: they didn't buy me the latest iPhone model shortly after it was released - and i end-up being among the losers from my school stuck with the older generation... the embarrassment i had to put up with - was overwhelming to say the least... thanx doc - you're the greatest - an eye opener").

Thanx for appreciation. That's just one way to look at it - i guess. I didn't have a special interest in Ami or AG - but some things you notice even without wanting to - if they keep at it for years (washing their dirty laundry in a public place).

In other words - it would have been nice if Ami's mother - was also a member, so we could hear her side of the story as well (would be just right - if she became such a negative celebrity around this parts - yet nobody really knows her) - just to be fair. If the problem revolves around a family member with whom the patient is still in touch - both members are usually required for therapy. Other than that... I don't know, but she doesn't seem like an Angel - yet she talks about her mother as if it's some kind of Devil (maybe she is - maybe not, hard to tell with just one side of the story).

Taking sides - it's not my thing, i'm more interested in the truth.

posted May 12, 2014 06:34 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Dancing Maenad:
LL has an unique energy. I am sure people appreciate that. Still, that is not an excuse to ignore constructive criticism. We should always seek to better ourselves.

Knowflakes have complained repeatedly about the moderation here. I don't think it's wise to shrug it off by saying hey, you're still posting so it's ok. It's not ok. We should be better people, as Mods we should lead by example. If not, stop moderating. Plenty of regular knowflakes make meaningful contributions without being Mods. It does not erase anyone's merits. Modship should be about something else, that's my personal view on it.

We're all on a path of soul growth here, otherwise we wouldn't have joined LL. LL is not *just* an astrology site. It is so much more than that. There's a TON of wisdom here. We should strive to live up to that.

I think maybe we can try to see these complaints from a different angle. It's not because knowflakes don't appreciate LL, I think it's quite the opposite. Like many of us, they found a home, a safe haven, a family. People wouldn't criticize it if they didn't care about LL, if they wouldn't be invested here and wanted to see LL grow even more spectacular and be more thriving. Knowflakes often make suggestions/recommendations for the site because they care. Maybe some need to work on the delivery - GRANTED. We're all learning here. Criticism/complaints do not equal total lack of appreciation, as many Virgo influenced people will confirm.

---

posted May 12, 2014 08:05 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Dancing Maenad:
LL has an unique energy. I am sure people appreciate that. Still, that is not an excuse to ignore constructive criticism. We should always seek to better ourselves.

Knowflakes have complained repeatedly about the moderation here. I don't think it's wise to shrug it off by saying hey, you're still posting so it's ok. It's not ok. We should be better people, as Mods we should lead by example. If not, stop moderating. Plenty of regular knowflakes make meaningful contributions without being Mods. It does not erase anyone's merits. Modship should be about something else, that's my personal view on it.

We're all on a path of soul growth here, otherwise we wouldn't have joined LL. LL is not *just* an astrology site. It is so much more than that. There's a TON of wisdom here. We should strive to live up to that.

I think maybe we can try to see these complaints from a different angle. It's not because knowflakes don't appreciate LL, I think it's quite the opposite. Like many of us, they found a home, a safe haven, a family. People wouldn't criticize it if they didn't care about LL, if they wouldn't be invested here and wanted to see LL grow even more spectacular and be more thriving. Knowflakes often make suggestions/recommendations for the site because they care. Maybe some need to work on the delivery - GRANTED. We're all learning here. Criticism/complaints do not equal total lack of appreciation, as many Virgo influenced people will confirm.

---

Nicely said!

I was going to write this big long response, supporting what you said, but I have trouble getting my thoughts out sometimes and I become too lazy to try. I have a few things though.

One is... If I'm frustrated, it's a temporary thing but it's very ugly. I'll make a scene and say just about anything.
If I'm really angry, truly, it's very long term, maybe forever and I may or may not make a scene but I will disappear.
LL was a little of both for me. 80% A and 20% B.

I will definitely say that my delivery could have been much much better. My time away has allowed me to collect myself and be more tactful.
I do have heavy Virgo. It's in my nature to analyze, criticize, and perfect. I would never expect perfection of LL. I try not to of anything, it's not realistic. But I don't settle either. I'll shoot for perfection and see where I land. Aim for the stars, you may get the moon. Aim for the moon, you may never leave earth. Or however that goes...

I'm still posting, yes, that says a lot about LL. But does it mean LL is without any problems? I think we know my answer to that.
People return to abusive relationships and all kinds of crap. It doesn't mean it's completely healthy. I know that's extreme for example.

I'd actually love to share ideas and thoughts about how to improve LL. But I get this general response that nothing is wrong and I'm the problem, I'm too dramatic, or whatever. If someone would actually listen instead of treating me like I'm delusional or something.
Look, no one should have to learn to ignore or feel restricted. Some people enjoy fights, I don't, but I also don't hold back. I'm Leo... I don't enjoy it but I'll do it! LOL
However, if I had stumbled across LL and witnessed some of these "fights" in action and how they were being handled, well I may have walked away. You never know, LL may have lost some members before they had them. It's hard to say.
I love to improve things and large projects. I sign up for all kinds of things at work. Recently two more things on top of what I'm doing. A team to improve quality tracking and a team for a long term master plan - what will we be like in 5-10 years, what's the plan? I love that stuff.

I came off wrong and really at the time I meant it. When I say I am leaving, that actually is my intent at the time. It's not some show... I fully intend to commit.

posted May 12, 2014 08:34 PM            

You were a wonderful addition to LL. You just had a few bullies harass you. Everyone has that happen. When I first came on, I could not believe how many people tried to harass Randall. He was super cool most of the time. Once or twice I saw him respond because he is human, too. You did nothing wrong. You need to ignore jerks is all, my Friend

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posted May 12, 2014 09:56 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by DeepFreeze:
Nicely said!

I was going to write this big long response, supporting what you said, but I have trouble getting my thoughts out sometimes and I become too lazy to try. I have a few things though.

One is... If I'm frustrated, it's a temporary thing but it's very ugly. I'll make a scene and say just about anything.
If I'm really angry, truly, it's very long term, maybe forever and I may or may not make a scene but I will disappear.
LL was a little of both for me. 80% A and 20% B.

I will definitely say that my delivery could have been much much better. My time away has allowed me to collect myself and be more tactful.
I do have heavy Virgo. It's in my nature to analyze, criticize, and perfect. I would never expect perfection of LL. I try not to of anything, it's not realistic. But I don't settle either. I'll shoot for perfection and see where I land. Aim for the stars, you may get the moon. Aim for the moon, you may never leave earth. Or however that goes...

I'm still posting, yes, that says a lot about LL. But does it mean LL is without any problems? I think we know my answer to that.
People return to abusive relationships and all kinds of crap. It doesn't mean it's completely healthy. I know that's extreme for example.

I'd actually love to share ideas and thoughts about how to improve LL. But I get this general response that nothing is wrong and I'm the problem, I'm too dramatic, or whatever. If someone would actually listen instead of treating me like I'm delusional or something.
Look, no one should have to learn to ignore or feel restricted. Some people enjoy fights, I don't, but I also don't hold back. I'm Leo... I don't enjoy it but I'll do it! LOL
However, if I had stumbled across LL and witnessed some of these "fights" in action and how they were being handled, well I may have walked away. You never know, LL may have lost some members before they had them. It's hard to say.
I love to improve things and large projects. I sign up for all kinds of things at work. Recently two more things on top of what I'm doing. A team to improve quality tracking and a team for a long term master plan - what will we be like in 5-10 years, what's the plan? I love that stuff.

I came off wrong and really at the time I meant it. When I say I am leaving, that actually is my intent at the time. It's not some show... I fully intend to commit.

Well anyway, many of you have helped me to get this out in a more constructive way via this thread. Sometimes that's a big problem of mine but now I think we're doing some good. Surely it's causing some thought with the people that are in control.

---

posted May 12, 2014 10:27 PM            

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Want To Ask Any Question About Bible Prophecy? Go For it. It is Free, of course.

posted May 13, 2014 02:57 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by 7thGuardian:
No! Please Nooooo! O_O!

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by 7thGuardian:
In her current condition - "she only says thank you to her victims".

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Wow you actually said it!

quote:

---

Originally posted by 7thGuardian:
I've been there in the beginning - when i didn't knew any better - and looking back... it feels like an abuse

---

Same here. Though it feels mischievous to be having such an honest conversation in a setting largely contaminated by subterfuge and confusion.

Perhaps it's needless to say that I understand your reluctance to submit things you've written.

quote:

---

Originally posted by 7thGuardian:
If what i said helps others in some way (even - it's just understanding) that's good enough for me. And Thanx.

---

Thank you, too! It's been nice discovering how much we're seeing eye to eye here. Gem Mars tag team forum warriors. LOL

posted May 13, 2014 04:08 PM            

I understand the exasperation and impatience that results from giving good advice, feedback and a shoulder to cry on when someone comes to you with their problems (as Ami frequently does here), and then seeing that she does 'take to heart' what you are saying. But I think you are mirroring yourself too much into her situation. You cannot judge her based on what you would have done in her situation, because if you were in her situation it would not be you. I don't think it's a simple as giving someone the recipe for success and expecting them to follow it if they don't even know how to cook. They might recognize the wisdom of what you are saying and thank you in the moment, but I think any genuine attempt at personal growth must be done in baby steps. If I eject every person from my life that didn't see reason when I showed it to them, I frankly don't think there would be many left.

Anyway, I remain an optimist. I believe in people's ability to grow through their challenges in this lifetime. It takes allot of time, patience, failing, and trying again - but if it wasn't difficult, what achievement would there be in succeeding?

posted May 13, 2014 07:40 PM            

You just have no idea what Ami is about. I promise you, you would not have said all of that to 7th if you did.

I was so, soooooo you two years ago. People here saw it, I was like Ami's bodyguard and would kick anyone's a** who tried to hurt the poor, poor woman. That was before my eyes were opened.

Sure, I have sympathy for EVERYONE who is hurt and twisted. But when people constantly use their suffering as a PLOY to lure people in, and then tell those new, trusting devotees how bad other people in the forum are, I lose patience. I don't even lose patience fast....I tolerated Ami for a long time after I knew her game...but seeing this happen over and over? I have no choice but to conclude that she simply enjoys her own duplicity. She likes it, thrives on seeing people argue about her, apparently gloats about being the bone of contention between so many people.

Like, hey, you and 7th were getting along fine, but OOPS, you disagree about Ami, so now there's some difficulty. Do you realize how many times, how many friendships, have been strained the exact same way here? You'd be amazed!!!

You really don't know. You haven't seen it.

And please, never insult someone by assuming they have never had pain in their lives. Ami knows that I have had SUBSTANTIAL misery in my own life, yet she repeatedly "flaunts" her own and others' misfortunes in front of me, as if it's some kind of contest. (ie "How dare you take offense to what AG said, don't you know about his hardship??" As if I've had none of my own hardship!) If I ever play that stupid game, then my actual misery has been trivialized.

But you don't even SEE that she's taunting me because you don't know my backstory.

And it's this same way with many of us who have really had our fair share of trauma but we pick ourselves up and carry on. We don't use our pain as a tool to manipulate others with. We don't use our pain to get attention merely for attention's sake or try and guilt trip others into feeling their lives have been like a walk in the park.

And frankly, when some people come on here constantly ringing their little "give me sympathy" bells and talking about their problems, and being competitive about it ("my pain is worse than yours") ...YES...it does get old.

posted May 13, 2014 08:43 PM            

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posted May 13, 2014 09:00 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Dancing Maenad:
LL has an unique energy. I am sure people appreciate that. Still, that is not an excuse to ignore constructive criticism. We should always seek to better ourselves.

Knowflakes have complained repeatedly about the moderation here. I don't think it's wise to shrug it off by saying hey, you're still posting so it's ok. It's not ok. We should be better people, as Mods we should lead by example. If not, stop moderating. Plenty of regular knowflakes make meaningful contributions without being Mods. It does not erase anyone's merits. Modship should be about something else, that's my personal view on it.

---

Well said! I don't understand why some mods get called out on impartiality, playing favorites, having inconsistencies in locking threads, or fueling the fire, but ignore the constructive criticism. If you can't take constructive criticism, then you are seriously limiting your character development.

posted May 14, 2014 06:23 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Faith:
Sibyl,

You just have no idea what Ami is about. I promise you, you would not have said all of that to 7th if you did.

I was so, soooooo you two years ago. People here saw it, I was like Ami's bodyguard and would kick anyone's a** who tried to hurt the poor, poor woman. That was before my eyes were opened.

Sure, I have sympathy for EVERYONE who is hurt and twisted. But when people constantly use their suffering as a PLOY to lure people in, and then tell those new, trusting devotees how bad other people in the forum are, I lose patience. I don't even lose patience fast....I tolerated Ami for a long time after I knew her game...but seeing this happen over and over? I have no choice but to conclude that she simply enjoys her own duplicity. She likes it, thrives on seeing people argue about her, apparently gloats about being the bone of contention between so many people.

Like, hey, you and 7th were getting along fine, but OOPS, you disagree about Ami, so now there's some difficulty. Do you realize how many times, how many friendships, have been strained the exact same way here? You'd be amazed!!!

You really don't know. You haven't seen it.

And please, never insult someone by assuming they have never had pain in their lives. Ami knows that I have had SUBSTANTIAL misery in my own life, yet she repeatedly "flaunts" her own and others' misfortunes in front of me, as if it's some kind of contest. (ie "How dare you take offense to what AG said, don't you know about his hardship??" As if I've had none of my own hardship!) If I ever play that stupid game, then my actual misery has been trivialized.

But you don't even SEE that she's taunting me because you don't know my backstory.

And it's this same way with many of us who have really had our fair share of trauma but we pick ourselves up and carry on. We don't use our pain as a tool to manipulate others with. We don't use our pain to get attention merely for attention's sake or try and guilt trip others into feeling their lives have been like a walk in the park.

And frankly, when some people come on here constantly ringing their little "give me sympathy" bells and talking about their problems, and being competitive about it ("my pain is worse than yours") ...YES...it does get old.

How's that for a Scorpio full moon post?

---

Thank you for your post, Faith, I really do appreciate it.

I don't mean to be Ami's bodyguard. Had he said it about anyone else I would have reacted just the same. Notice that I'm not disagreeing about his assessment of her or anyone else. I'm merely reacting to his exasperation of the timeline for growth. Like the statement where he says he cannot understand how someone can have been in therapy for years, yet still not be fixed. I think things take time, and I don't want to be impatient with people in my life because I wish they will be patient with me. This is the reason why I wonder if he perhaps does not have such struggles. Or perhaps he has overcome them, I don't know. I'm attempting to find a reason for his different attitude. Maybe I'm just the one that's naive, or too optimistic? Possibly. Then again I would rather not doom myself along with everyone I know to stilted growth, and I find it hard to differentiate between the issues Ami has, the issues you have (referring to things previously discussed, what you refer to I obv know nothing about), the issues AG has, the issues I have, everyone else has. You may be right that I simply do not know enough to make a judgment, but I would say the person I would deem worthy of 'giving up on' is quite unimaginable to me. That being said, I don't see 7th in any lesser light and hope there is enough room to disagree that we can still get along great. I don't usually see an issue with some disagreement in friendship, I think it's healthy.

That being said, I'm not team anyone. I don't think more highly of Ami than either you or 7th. I appreciate you all in different ways. Mostly I appreciate the fact that the three of you give me feedback, which gives me greater insight to myself. Personality wise, Ami is probably my polar opposite. I usually identify much more with you tbh. So I really don't want you to think that I'm picking people here, or taking sides.

posted May 14, 2014 09:51 AM            

Kudos to you, for your diplomacy. I was a bit fired up last night.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sibyl:
I don't mean to be Ami's bodyguard.

---

True, I was more of a bodyguard. LOL

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sibyl:
I'm merely reacting to his exasperation of the timeline for growth. Like the statement where he says he cannot understand how someone can have been in therapy for years, yet still not be fixed.

---

Ok, but that reaction included speculation about 7th's life, which struck a nerve with me....

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sibyl:
There are big reasons why a person struggles with different things. Often, it is due to hurt. Ami has had very real challenges in her life, as does AG seem to have had with women. Though I often disagree with them and their opinions, and frequently told them so, I can emphasize with this because I know something about of what it means to strive for personal growth. I know how difficult it can be, if you have been hurt. Perhaps you have no such emotional wounds...

---

Everyone has emotional wounds.

Some people just flaunt theirs more than others, and it can generate a kind of illusion in the atmosphere...where it looks like some people are the patients and others are the visitors and others are the doctors. In actuality, everyone is playing all three roles (more or less) simultaneously.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sibyl:
I'm attempting to find a reason for his different attitude.

---

I can't speak for 7th, he might want to answer that for himself.

But I'll give my unsolicited, verbose opinion, sure thing!

It's because, when people demonstrate that they are receiving a payback for being sick, they have less of an incentive to heal. And some people are also quite recalcitrant. Put those two characteristics together and what you get is this reality: many people do go to their graves without ever evolving very noticeably, they die in the clutches of their rather trouble-making egos. For some people, I think it would take "an act of God" for them to move out of this holding pattern they are in (I mean in the legal sense, like a natural disaster, or an epiphany, or perhaps through bona fide spiritual practice...not to be confused with superficial religious practice and its soul-weakening tendencies.)

Thing is, when you meet someone who has grown very comfortable in their role as emotional parasite (sorry for the harsh connotation, but it fits)...and then you meet another and another...eventually you will learn to recognize these types of individuals. It is like a personality type, perhaps affiliated with other clinical disorders like bipolarity, or perhaps it gets its own acronym, I don't really know. I'm not being dismissive of these people, not saying there's no chance that they will heal. Sure they can, miracles happen.

I'm saying, this illness is particularly difficult to eradicate...the nature of the illness seems to be particularly deep-seated. Many of these people demonstrate that their whole emotional state depends on their receiving giant amounts of attention for their wounds, and for these people, true inner healing is disincentivized. When you recognize that that is their condition...then you see how your sympathy is almost like alcohol to an alcoholic. They need to learn to find strength from within, not from leaning on others...and leaning so heavily they're creating a domino effect, causing people around them to fall over (figuratively speaking.) Which I'm sorry to say can be quite a spectacle, and from what I've seen, often delights the person who caused such BIG, DRAMATIC, ENORMOUS mischief.

I will add that, in my own real life, I have known people who are like this, and they have been like this for decades. The common denominator is a split personality: one side is uber charming, the other is wicked. And that wicked side doesn't offer itself up for exorcism, it just crawls around under the shell of sweetness.

As for therapy in the conventional sense, I just want to add that I know people who became "addicted" to it, or fell in love with their therapists (frankly) and then ~ again ~ healing is disincentivized. So therapy CAN backfire...it always depends on so many variables, it's hard to say.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sibyl:
Maybe I'm just the one that's naive, or too optimistic? Possibly.

---

Most of us are, to a certain extent. I'm just older than you.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sibyl:
Then again I would rather not doom myself along with everyone I know to stilted growth, and I find it hard to differentiate between the issues Ami has, the issues you have (referring to things previously discussed, what you refer to I obv know nothing about), the issues AG has, the issues I have, everyone else has.

---

Fair enough...I think I tried to explain the difference above. Some people adapt themselves to deriving satisfaction in ways that undermine others; a common term for them is "energy vampires."

To be perfectly blunt, I think AG has more of a chance to free himself from this kind of dependency, this mode of emotional sustenance, just because he is more rational than Ami...but sure, Ami could heal under the right conditions, too. Having a bevvy of admirers who perhaps can't even really see her flaws (yet) doesn't exactly help her, it's like she is looking into a fun-house mirror that changes her reflection into something it's not. This phenomenon happens with everyone, we all want people to see our good side more than our bad side, but when a person has a big chasm between their appealing persona and the darkly festering issues underneath, let's just say that that chasm/void can suck up a lot of good feelings from the people they engage with.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sibyl:
That being said, I don't see 7th in any lesser light and hope there is enough room to disagree that we can still get along great. I don't usually see an issue with some disagreement in friendship, I think it's healthy.

---

Me, too.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sibyl:
That being said, I'm not team anyone.

---

Me, either...well, I am on "Team Evolution," as in personal evolution, group evolution.

Though, considering our Cappy placements, I think some of our similarities come from being on Team Saturn.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sibyl:
Mostly I appreciate the fact that the three of you give me feedback, which gives me greater insight to myself.

---

Ditto.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sibyl:
Perhaps the difference between us is Faith, that I can't be manipulated by use of sympathy.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sibyl:
It's not something I have to factor in. I'm simply not emotionally available for that. I don't have "a bleeding heart". And I'm not saying that's a good thing. To be honest, my post was more for the sake of the two of you than it was hers.

---

It's all good. Thank you, it's been nice talking you. It's helping me sharpen my mind as well, since I know you won't let me get away with saying anything too stupid. LOL

Seriously, I really appreciate how articulate and "on the ball" you are.

posted May 14, 2014 10:02 AM            

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posted May 14, 2014 10:16 AM            

Only by getting that can one have a truly good life because one has to learn to repel this in one's life, not run away.

One needs to learn tools and one can learn them but one learns through struggle, not ease.

That is why I try to help people stay here. If one can't deal with the negativity here, one will not be able to deal with it in one's real life, where it is harder to deal with

------------------
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