posted May 27, 2014 01:50 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by T:
I have nothing against Ami. If you have not seen the abuse from her to many long-time decent and goodhearted members here, i'm not sure what to tell you!

It's not my job to point it out. If you are one of the few here that love her and thinks she adds positivity, who am I to try to stop you or tell you otherwise??

I have seen her vicious side and generally try to ignore it for reasons I will leave unsaid.

I'm glad she has a few fans here for her own fragile ego's sake!

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She helped me realize my potential and taught me astrology at 12/13 which was a very kind thing to do. Sure, I disagree with some of her viees but she is a older woman and set in her ways, who am I to challenge her?
I have a lot of loyality to her, to insult her would be very wrong for me.
Of course, for you its very different and you dont vibe with her well. Thats fine. Some people really hate me because we dont vibe well with eachother.

Ami's no but no complete either. Figuratively speaking.

Also I notice Ami's religion [or how she comes off/rub them the wrong way] is the source of discomfort for many people too, which I understand because im not too big on Abrahamic religions!

posted May 27, 2014 01:59 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Randall:
It's very fitting, actually. The title implies a generality. Generalities are what women get so up in arms about with AG. Factual reporting goes both ways.

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because "certain type of fedora-wearing nice guys objectify women sexually" is too wordy

No offense, but a man trying to understand sexism from a intimate and personal point of view is like a white person trying to understand the systematic oppression of a minority.
The best answers come from the people who have experienced this personally so oblivious people shouldnt blow it off because it seems inconsiderate despite their intention

posted May 27, 2014 01:59 AM            

For the record, ami's religion does not rub me the wrong way. I don't dislike people for their religions. I don't even really dislike Ami and i don't really like her either. I often sit back wide eyed at the things she comes out with.

For years, i've dealt with someone who is one minute nice to me and posting hearts and then in another thread lashing out telling me I'm atrocious and should be ashamed of myself.

posted May 27, 2014 03:17 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by aquaguy91:
Did I ever say that men shouldn't exercise impulse control? My problem with women's attitudes towards male sexuality is they think a man should swallow his feelings and emotions if his feelings and emotions don't line up with theirs... They think a man should just lose his romantic/sexual feelings and be happy being her asexual emotional tampon. I fully agree that a woman should have the right to say no to a man's advances... But if a man decides he isn't interested in being just friends he is suddenly a selfish scumbag who only wants sex.

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From what I see more women wish men would ask them out more. Granted, it's an unfair world and women can react very differently to different men depending on various factors.

You should try reading some women magazines like Cosmo (about 3 million subscribers and sells pretty well at stores on top of that, which is to say it's a popular magazine and there'd be women who think the same way who never read it, too). I think it would blow your mind. Frankly, I'm shocked that it can be found so easily at grocery stores in the Bible Belt, it's practically porn in my book, and so much content devoted on how to get guys to drool over you (and much more) and to encourage you that if a man so much as blinks at you that he wants you (yay!).

One reason I put up with a guy harassing me for so long in an office unsure what to do was because I saw one of those ******* Cosmopolitan magazines on a desk (and I know he saw it, too) which had bold print about office hookups right on the borderline pornographic cover and thought that maybe this was normal behavior to be expected in an office environment and didn't want to get my friend who worked there in trouble by how I reacted. (Hmmm...I wonder if that was the desk of his sister who threw me out after I told him to stop?)

posted May 27, 2014 03:33 AM            

KQ, can you be more specific about what you mean?

posted May 27, 2014 04:23 AM            

Last night, I went on a blind date with a guy that seemed okay. He didn't know my past or anything, so I don't blame him for what happened to me, but he pushed for sex, even to the point of grabbing the back of my head and trying to force it to his crotch in my own car. He groped me, grabbing my crotch several times, and forcefully put his mouth on me and I played passive, trying to figure how to get away without setting him on edge.

I was so scared that my other personality kicked in, the one I used to boldly flirt and dissuade my rapist from when I was younger to having to submit me to gang banging.

I said to this guy, "Do you have words to express what you want or are we gonna play this push and pull game all night?" I smile a little and then edge out carefully from a potentially disasterous situation. I got home and my family was waiting for me outside, concerned since I hadn't dated in a while. I broke down crying outside because of the adrenaline rush and my naïveté to continuously give even complete strangers the benefit of a doubt.

I understand men think about sex. If a man is looking for a partner, he needs to know what kind of relationship he wants.

I was so scared that I blame myself for attracting this situation. I'm looking for a protector. Yes, he will think about sex, but he won't put me at odds for a quick moment's satisfaction. Regardless of culture, we are still individuals who are individually worthy of respect from each other and should treat everyone as our reflection.

It wasn't right for that man to tell me he wants to protect me and then manhandle me into trying to have sex. It wasn't right for that rapist years ago to submit me to deciding if I was going to spend my last night as a virgin being ****** by one man or five.

It wasn't right for people to touch me as a child and inappropriately touch me as a child then a family member backhand me for asking for help.

Am I tripping to hold out hope that there will be someone who wants to lover and respect me by protecting me?

posted May 27, 2014 06:44 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by aquaguy91:
As I have already explained at least 100 times... I think women misinterpret men's anger and the reasons why we get bent out of shape with them. As a man who is very disappointed with women of my generation as a collective I can say beyond a shadow of a doubt that my anger is not because I felt entitled to sex with any woman I chose and didn't get it.. My anger stemmed from being lied to, plain and simple. And I think most men of my generation who are angry with women are angry for the same reasons. Alot of us young men were raised by single moms in a feminized society ...and we were socialized to be "nice guys"... We were told all kinds of lies about what women like and their natures. And when we came of age we figured out that all the things we had been taught about women were mostly lies.. And we saw the darker sides of women and it shocked us. Disappointed us, and yes it made us angry. And to make matters worse women get angry at us for being all the things they raised us to be and told us they wanted us to be! And then they go into rants about male entitlement and all sorts of other nonsense... The fact of the matter is "nice guys" are not created by the evil mythical patriarchy. They are created by feminism and single mother households.

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Here is what I don't understand, and never have AG. Assume all of that is the real world on the ground truth of the matter.

Single mother household, told several things that turned out to be untrue, lied to by women one is interested in.

The next step would then be to accept that as truth, and find the best strategy to deal with that reality rather than complain about it all?

This is unpolitik, however I learned early on complaining..does no good at all, in fact it sounds very much like whinning, which is really unmanly, rather than acting which is manly. IDK if you have ever been told that simple truth of life.

I'll give you an example, was working with my surperviser(ette) yesterday and out of the blue she tells me "You are Sexy"..pretended not to hear it, so she repeated it a couple of times..to follow your line of thinking I should then run screaming to the HR dept instead of accepting the compliment and moving on w/an ego boost (not that I needed it)

posted May 27, 2014 06:50 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Randall:
I'm not trying to understand sexism. Frankly, I admit that I don't understand discrimination. I'm just pointing out an inconsistency in logic. And, of course, relaying my own personal experiences as a male among other males.

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posted May 27, 2014 06:52 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Ami Anne:
Honestly AG

These women who complain about woman not having rights in the US and all this cooked up crock really get me angry

Go to the countries where they genitally mutilate women and show how brave you are. THEN, I would have respect for you.

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Tell that to the families of the victims of the SB shooting.

posted May 27, 2014 07:08 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by ariestaurus:
Tell that to the families of the victims of the SB shooting.

You should be ashamed of yourself

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Odd, by my count there were 4 men shot as well, which has nothing to do with woman's rights. Yet there is no thread or even attempt to shout from the roof tops the fact of the matter that most violence is men on men.

Society simply shrugs at that sort of violence, ie, men are disposible.

Add in, if genital mutilation is the cause, circumscision is socially acceptable around the world, a male baby is far more likely to undergo that procedure then a female child to undergo genital mutilation.

posted May 27, 2014 07:23 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Padre35:
Odd, by my count there were 4 men shot as well, which has nothing to do with woman's rights. Yet there is no thread or even attempt to shout from the roof tops the fact of the matter that most violence is men on men.

Society simply shrugs at that sort of violence, ie, men are disposible.

Add in, if genital mutilation is the cause, circumscision is socially acceptable around the world, a male baby is far more likely to undergo that procedure then a female child to undergo genital mutilation.

Not complaining, and far far from an MRA, as KarkaQ pointed out there should be a balance and not a choir performance.

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It was a crime perpetrated by hate for women, and this is a women's issue.

posted May 27, 2014 07:30 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by ariestaurus:
It was a crime perpetrated by hate for women, and this is a women's issue.

You sound like AG now, Padre

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Eh, have been a part of these discussions before and think it is time to inject new ideas into them to sharpen the whole debate.

Pretty much these discussions take a familar path, incident/world views emoted/never challenged/no new ideas injected into discussion.

The SB murderer did shoot 4 men as well, including domestic violence, he shot 3 guys at his apartment including some poor soul who was just visiting the place, and a guy who was buying a sandwich at the deli, that deserves a mention.

To not mention it is to re-enforce AG's point that violence against men goes uncommented upon

posted May 27, 2014 07:39 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by PixieJane:
OTOH, that's how I interpreted it. Reading over KQ OP again I find it too vague. I had been thinking of the two other threads on men getting violent & threatening and assumed that was what that was about as well.

KQ, can you be more specific about what you mean?

Different posters are understanding what you're talking about in completely different ways and I can see how it can be easily understood in those different ways. It needs clarity if any communication is to be possible.

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posted May 27, 2014 07:44 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Padre35:
Eh, have been a part of these discussions before and think it is time to inject new ideas into them to sharpen the whole debate.

Pretty much these discussions take a familar path, incident/world views emoted/never challenged/no new ideas injected into discussion.

The SB murderer did shoot 4 men as well, including domestic violence, he shot 3 guys at his apartment including some poor soul who was just visiting the place, and a guy who was buying a sandwich at the deli, that deserves a mention.

To not mention it is to re-enforce AG's point that violence against men goes uncommented upon

Viewed that way, if he had shot only men, would this even be a discussion?

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If you would like to discuss violence against men, why don't you open a thread about it so we can all discuss? It's a big subject and deserves its own thread.

posted May 27, 2014 07:50 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by MetalAphrodite:
I didn't bother to read after the first couple of posts because I am worried that page 2 is a bit of fighting tone, so I'll comment.

Last night, I went on a blind date with a guy that seemed okay. He didn't know my past or anything, so I don't blame him for what happened to me, but he pushed for sex, even to the point of grabbing the back of my head and trying to force it to his crotch in my own car. He groped me, grabbing my crotch several times, and forcefully put his mouth on me and I played passive, trying to figure how to get away without setting him on edge.

I was so scared that my other personality kicked in, the one I used to boldly flirt and dissuade my rapist from when I was younger to having to submit me to gang banging.

I said to this guy, "Do you have words to express what you want or are we gonna play this push and pull game all night?" I smile a little and then edge out carefully from a potentially disasterous situation. I got home and my family was waiting for me outside, concerned since I hadn't dated in a while. I broke down crying outside because of the adrenaline rush and my naïveté to continuously give even complete strangers the benefit of a doubt.

I understand men think about sex. If a man is looking for a partner, he needs to know what kind of relationship he wants.

I was so scared that I blame myself for attracting this situation. I'm looking for a protector. Yes, he will think about sex, but he won't put me at odds for a quick moment's satisfaction. Regardless of culture, we are still individuals who are individually worthy of respect from each other and should treat everyone as our reflection.

It wasn't right for that man to tell me he wants to protect me and then manhandle me into trying to have sex. It wasn't right for that rapist years ago to submit me to deciding if I was going to spend my last night as a virgin being ****** by one man or five.

It wasn't right for people to touch me as a child and inappropriately touch me as a child then a family member backhand me for asking for help.

Am I tripping to hold out hope that there will be someone who wants to lover and respect me by protecting me?

I have to be willing to forgive myself for these things and let it go. I trust in the infinite abundance of the universe and see no reason to believe I am so special to have been singled out for a miserable existence.

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posted May 27, 2014 07:52 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by ariestaurus:
If you would like to discuss violence against men, why don't you open a thread about it so we can all discuss? It's a big subject and deserves its own thread.

Yes I agree that men were shot and killed in this incident. I'm not sure why he targeted men since his video said he'd kill all the blonde ***** he will see, but as I recall, I don't think he made any mention of killing men. I'm not sure why he did. But I am very open to discussing why this kind of violence occurs. All these needless shootings and violence need to stop.

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Oh agreed, think his parents should have locked that firearm away, or gotten it out of the house (if I understand what happened correctly) as soon as they realized he had mental issues.

IMO that is the responsible thing to do

Good question about why not start a thread about it, for a couple of reasons:

-As a male, I understand that is how things are ordered in Society.

-I would view it as complaining, which is something I'm loathe to do

posted May 27, 2014 08:09 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Padre35:
Oh agreed, think his parents should have locked that firearm away, or gotten it out of the house (if I understand what happened correctly) as soon as they realized he had mental issues.

IMO that is the responsible thing to do

Good question about why not start a thread about it, for a couple of reasons:

-As a male, I understand that is how things are ordered in Society.

-I would view it as complaining, which is something I'm loathe to do

I'm familiar with the MRA view vis a vis circumcision, however, in midst of the mewling from that segment they quite get around to the fact the young boys organs themselves still work properly, with female mutilation, the equipment is no longer there to function. Which is a great counter point that never makes it past the blather about "it's not fair!!!"

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Who cares how society is ordered?! You can't really say that men's issues aren't given enough attention while you refuse to discuss those issues because you think it's complaining. Why comment on men's issues at all, then?

posted May 27, 2014 08:11 AM            

God has been showing me, lately, that the things that happen to us when we are victimized have NOTHING to do with us. They may feel like they do. They may feel as if there is a brand on us and a deep level of unworthiness that goes deep. People blame themselves for being victimized. There is something in us that tries to make sense of it by self blame. This seems to be what happens in most cases. I am seeing my way out to self love. It is all about self love in the midst of our many, many flaws imo and to know that the abuser/ aggressor was the sick ones and we were the innocent ones, in the case of sexual assault/ child abuse etc
I am so very sorry you went through that

------------------
Want To Ask Any Question About Bible Prophecy? Go For it. It is Free, of course.

posted May 27, 2014 08:26 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by ariestaurus:
Who cares how society is ordered?! You can't really say that men's rights aren't given enough attention while you a refuse to because you think it's complaining. Why comment on men's issues at all, then?

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B/c it is important to try and see differing pov's w/o necessarily agreeing with those pov's

quote:

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Yes this guy had huge problem with men, too. Complain about seeing hot women with 'losers', 'obnoxious men'. Perhaps that's why he targeted men, as well. Man hate right there. The MRA movement is toxic and dangerous for men AND women.

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MRA's really advocate men shooting other men over dating successes? From what I've read they mostly complain about the legal system being tilted in favor of women in family court.

And there is a strong possibility he was merely mentally unstable, he could have been a Brony and still did what he did. Though from what I've read he did appear to be a self hating racist which in some ways makes him different from the avg George Sodini type of screwball.