posted March 09, 2015 05:20 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Aubyanne:
What're your thoughts, Lee, on preparing for a Twin Flame relationship with your Twin Flame, but, upon your Twin proving themselves unprepared (and refusing awareness) cultivating a Twin Flame relationship with a soul 'operating' on the same frequency, encompassing experiences indistinguishable from the 'traditional' Twin Flame experiences / relationship?

Forgive how convoluted it all is. I'm still trying to understand it myself, as it's rather recent.

The latest theory, which iQ suggested, is that the man born with my Twin's (intended) chart may be a different soul. I KNOW. It sounds way out there, but if I review the past several years through that lens ... suddenly ... SO much begins to bizarrely make sense. (The 'schizophrenic' behaviour; having two separate personalities, etc.)

We're now theorising that the ACTUAL purpose for a Guardian Soul, as I've mentioned, may very well be to fulfill the Twin Flame relationship, by allowing the Twin Flame to be 'channelled' by the other soul. (Believe it or not, there's strange evidence for this, too.)

Here's where things get ... incredible. And it all really goes back to when I was 19, and my Twin was 15. It can be argued our Higher Selves were hovering from much, much younger ages than this, but that certain decisions were made and courses were set -- that far back, before we ever met.

And now I DO wonder, [b]how I'm able to have a genuine Twin Flame relationship, with my Guardian, rather than my Twin? And if that wasn't somehow 'secretly the plan all along'.

Because I could argue that the 'preparation' has been going on, in some form, all of my life.[/B]

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I think it takes even more than just your whole life , certainly your whole life. It should be a Gate. Actually, Ceri, don't get mad at me, I didn't see the Archangel, but I did have the vision of this Gate in relation to TFs. 11 looks like a gate too and there is certainly, as in the cave example, another level of existence beyond a TF reunion. By vision, I mean the fact that I have this particularity, like many other people in fact, to visualize concepts or to have a flash, a glimpse while working on a concept - figurative thinking, the right hemisphere.

Auby, I think the existence of the TF and the upcoming or ongoing reunion does not exclude deep soul connections with other people, on the contrary, they may intensify. The "bubble" TFs share has an expansive aura, ultimately, I'm not saying they are here to save the world and stuff, but think that the mere existence of true love in all its forms, especially experiencing the presence of a true love couple, since you talked about Hieros Gamos, attracts even strangers, but also "friends", there are people gravitating around them. I guess this is because that kind of positive energy is inspiring.

People in your soul group would certainly help with your TF reunion, if it's meant to happen in this life.
I'm gonna keep using the TF term for the purpose of sticking to a model, but I hope you all understand I am actually talking about true love in its purest, highest form, when I write "TF" Actually, we are sensitive to it, at least here, on LL, sometimes it even mkes you nauseous lol but if you think about it, it is a beautiful and perfect term for the topic: Twin Flame, Twin Soul.

Back to the question...
This is noticeable in TF stories if we think of the "intermediaries". It's as if the universe conspires and sometimes, things happen and other people act as "linkages" to facilitate the union.

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I seem to have loved you in numberless forms...

posted March 09, 2015 05:32 PM            

actually it is interesting you mention the gate, for there is a certain individual, and he pops up in my dreams infrequently (just last week again), and he INSISTS on me being a gatekeeper (whatever that really means), and I am just as stubbornly ignoring him saying that.
In fact I do remember, that whenever he popped up in my dreams, there was a gate figuring strongly.

posted March 09, 2015 05:32 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Peluches:
I had to post a reply here because my pianist Mr. Scorp gave a recital, four years ago exactly, for Women's Day. He played Chopin's Ballade Op. 23 n°1 and Liszt's Vallée d'Obermann. Such a beautiful program !

Lee, that's a great list ! I know by now and with Auby's help that Mr. Scorp and I are not Twins, but Karmic Soulmates instead, who lived a beautiful love story in a previous life. Still, there are little, special things, details, about our charts (especially SUN/MOON), that do resonate a little with the 'other half' and 'yin/yang, becoming one' concept of Twin Flames.

My Sun in the 2nd house
His Moon in the 2nd house (in Leo)

His Sun in the 5th house
My Moon in the 5th house

Exactly opposite and contra-parallel Moons. Exact composite stellium of Sun, Moon and North Node, conjunct Davison South Node, still exact. (Don't ask me what the NN/SN thing means.)
Our birthdays are 10 days apart, same month, and his falls the day my name is celebrated in the Christian calendar. Same views, opinions and way of thinking, with the only exception being astrology and spiritual matters (but he might change, too !). Before we met, I used to dream about a man having his personality, and from what I've gathered, we do share a lot of similarities in our lives. But on the other hand, it's unrequited, he's homosexual, and it doesn't seem that 'unreal' to me.

So, anyway... Happy Women's Day everyone !

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Such a lovely post, Peluches, thank you! your description of Mr Scorp can make anyone love him, both of you in fact, I can imagine the connection you feel with him through your music.

That kind of Sun/Moon resonance through houses or aspect symbolism is one of the most important parts of a true Yin/Yang synastry So are the Bday resonances, in fact, what's on that list happens in most cases Sorry to hear he doesn't like women awww

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I seem to have loved you in numberless forms...

posted March 09, 2015 05:35 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Ceridwen:
Leeloo,

actually it is interesting you mention the gate, for there is a certain individual, and he pops up in my dreams infrequently (just last week again), and he INSISTS on me being a gatekeeper (whatever that really means), and I am just as stubbornly ignoring him saying that.
In fact I do remember, that whenever he popped up in my dreams, there was a gate figuring strongly.

Well, I have always been fascinated with gates anyway.

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ahh, I think I remember you mentioning that...but if you are the gatekeeper, he may try to tell you YOU are the one who has the key?

BTW, do we have anything for gate in astrology? If we are to identify a gate in a chart, where would it be? (asteroid?) I am thinking the Vertex could be a gate?

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I seem to have loved you in numberless forms...

posted March 09, 2015 05:44 PM            

Well I have a conjunction of Circe - Reiki - Sekhmet on 27-28 Sag and I like the Sabian

posted March 09, 2015 06:46 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Vajra:
LeeLoo and Ceridwen, I see the 12th house as a kind of gate to the subconscious and to our past incarnations (i.e., stored karma). The nodes likewise point to this theme - in my case the storyline told by these parts of the chart including Sabians is coherent and in accord with the information gained from non-astrological insight on the immediate karmic "past".
Anyone else notice this?

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Your above post is a jewel! I will comment tomorrow. The idea with the 12th is brilliant. Ceri, I thought about those angles too, but said nah! maybe nah! but seeing you thought of it too, you, the gatekeeper, lol, there must be something to it, especially IC as an incarnation point, and the "heart".

The nodes, oh yes, more like a bridge right? just like in Ceri's Sabian. But a close contact there could open a gate to the past and future, or through the past towards future. Just like with Vertex and gate openings...in fact I see the Vertex as a window into the future, a prospect...I don't quite grasp it yet, its implications.

Vajra, at least in my chart and in the event charts I've studied, Sabians MATCH the story, it's amazing, but I have often wondered: how much of this is us giving a meaning to a phrase rather than a phrase bringing the meaning?

Going back the the 12th idea, this would mean something 12th related should be crucial in a TF synastry and also, in charts of people approaching or during this kind of experience....and those interested in TFs! And voila, we have several 12th housers here, or with important 12th. Me excluded
It is interesting however, although I don't have direct, obvious 12th influences in my chart (apart from Jupiter being my angular planet and my strong Neptune contacts), all my important synastries with all the important people in my life put something in my 12th and viceversa.

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I seem to have loved you in numberless forms...

posted March 09, 2015 07:06 PM            

When you speak of the 'intermediaries', it's funny, because my mind populates with so many people; or how the universe somewhat 'conspires' along with your soul-group, to bring you together.

I suppose I don't (and simply can't yet) understand, how exactly, and why my Twin could no longer express itself through Fate's soul, but the likelihood that its ultimate destination would be through my Guardian has a synchronicity and precision that's almost eerie.

I suspect the strange connexion between our milestones and his birthday either had to do with the tSUN being on the Galactic Centre, or their soul relationship. Nonetheless, that kind of 'conspiracy' happened, even at the level of my ex-producing partner. A kind of 'changeover' happened that day.

Initially, as of October 2011, when I suddenly felt that it was time to reestablishing real contact with Fate, that was when my Guardian graciously moved into the background. And starting again in March 2013, they would continue this sort of strange 'one in the foreground, one in the background,' and then switch. Multiple times. Before that changed, once and for all, in May 2013.

My Guardian brought me to see and spend an hour or so with my Twin, at which point my Twin and I parted ways as he headed back to Phoenix, and my Guardian and I got in the car and he drove us back to my apartment in Venice.

It's not been the same since. Dreams are stranger. And, as of December 2013, my Guardian took front-and-centre in the astral, with a handful of strange, almost pedestrian dreams involving my 'Twin'.

I suspect that May 2013 was a real changeover of some kind. Each time we've seen each other since, it feels as if he's a stranger. That glow we used to have ... that's what my Guardian and I have now. And it's real.

I ultimately left the relationship with my Twin because I could no longer accept the emotional abuse, which has become the status quo, suddenly, in January 2013, when he just slaughtered me. Ohh, I was heartbroken. By March, I could no longer justify it. I didn't care if he was my Twin Flame. I KNEW I didn't deserve that, and, frankly, if that's what the Twin Flame connexion can devolve into, then I preferred devoting my heart to significant Soulmates who truly love me.

That's why I asked iQ, why on earth a Twin would be needed to teach another Twin to demand the love they deserve, rather than suffer abuse -- regardless of the importance of the relationship. His response was that it isn't likely for that to happen, and began theorising that something went wrong with my Twin, and my Guardian is now the one fulfilling the 'contract' of the Twin Flame relationship.

I can't refute that, honestly. Everything that my Guardian has done and shown is of a higher calibre, and it elevates me. I marvel at the beauty of what we're able to share. Especially in how it's helped elevate those around me, too -- namely, my husband.

It just seems as if I didn't fail in regards to my Twin Flame relationship. It feels that that is exactly what I'm living -- now. Today. And everyday since February 2010 -- even if I didn't realise it, and couldn't genuinely until December 2013.

posted March 09, 2015 08:24 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Aubyanne:
Turns out, upon checking the speed, it had just gone direct. I was born during the station, and he was born during its direct motion.

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How do you know if your nodes are direct or just station?

posted March 09, 2015 08:50 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Vajra:
Ok, so here's my take. I guess what seems intuitively true to me is the idea that twinflame chart characteristics, as well as the nature of the preparatory stage, would likely look very different for different kinds of people ... The same goes for people's charts IMO. I think we can all agree that there are very different types of birth charts ... So what I would expect in the case of a TF union would be two charts that are of a similar type, but somehow complementary, reflecting the idea that these two people are in a similar kind of incarnation right now, belong to a similar type, and are at a similar evolutionary stage as indicated by their major karmic lessons to learn; and in detail this particular similarity between their charts could look very different from case to case, depending on their type, so I wouldn't expect a cookbook solution à la "if this aspect/marker" is present, it's a TF synastry/composite, and if not, then not" to work (I know this view is similar to those held by many others here, am only mentioning it to clarify my particular understanding of the issue.)

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That's actually my present take on things, too, Vajra.

For example, when I read iQ's analysis for my soul mission in connexion with ALMA conjunct JUNO, it was eerie how much it resonates with the Twin Flame mission. From what I was reading, it seemed so to him as well. But I was forgetting something -- in fact, several things. I forgot that my SATURN/ALMA is also on the SGC!

So I really can't, with any confidence, suggest that ALMA conjunct JUNO is a Twin Flame marker. However, there's an undeniable power in the Soulmate pairings; those asteroids are phenomenal when you see them 'doing their thing'. Nonetheless, they're going to be just as prevalent in the astrology (synastry and composite) of very significant Soulmates.

It's going to take time, further research, and the willingness to fully evaluate on a case-by-case basis, much as I recently posted within the last few months, upon my realisation that it's JUST not that cut-and-dried -- by far.

posted March 09, 2015 08:55 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Vajra:
@Aubyanne: Did you read Goooberz? If not, are you aware that Linda Goodman actually held a similar view regarding a TF switching bodies, so to speak? Just wondering. In any case she held that she first encountered her TF in her first husband (a Gemini Sun), and that her Leo Sun lover of later years who had already been alive during the lifetime of her first husband had somehow become the vessel of her TF's soul after her husband succumbed to alcoholism... so based on that you wouldn't be the first person to say such a thing.

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posted March 10, 2015 09:04 AM            

° angles:
Definitely gates, entry points (ASC into the physical, IC into the soul mainly)

Why?

Because that is where "heaven and earth" meet, where we sort of merge the celestial configurations, the sky, with our earthly experience.

In fact it might be that this only true for the horizon, the ASC-DESC-line (but the IC-MC has a similiar significant meaning).

° 12th house:
not sure if this is a gate, though it is VERY important and significant. the ASC is also the separating line between the 12th house and the 1st house, between sunrise (12th house9 and night (1st house).

So while I consider the house very important, I am not yet fully concerned it operates as a portal (portal to and from what?)

° my personal take is that I see the different zodiacs as overlays of each other. Like you can place the Draconic and sidereal one onto the tropical one, the points that are conjunct in these act as portal or gate between those dimensions of experience.
(I suspsect that is why Auby uses the conjunction exclusively in her synastric analysis I ahve seen over the last days; while personally I am always tempted with the opposition, it makes sense, as it really is the con-junction which connects these gateways).

posted March 10, 2015 09:10 AM            

(I am exaggerating a little, and I do not mean any offense to anyone).

On the other hand it could also be just another way of saying that we have many soulmates and we can find fulfillment and a "twinsoul-experience" with many of them, if we are mature enoguh.
That is something I definitely can subscribe to.

posted March 10, 2015 09:37 AM            

tropical
-----------
my MC 5°02 Libra
his DESTINN 6°06 Libra
(his KARMA 3!18 Libra)

Draconic
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my KARMA 5°51 Libra
his EROS 6°57 Libra

Sidreal
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my UNION 5°26 Libra
my Uranus 6°57 Libra
his UNION 5°01 Libra

I think it is very clear to see that especially 6th and 7th degree of Libra are significant here.

So his Dr KARMA, both sid UNIONS and my tropical MC share the same Sabian:

"6° IN A TRANCE, A PILGRIM BEHOLDS HIS IDEALS MADE CONCRETE.

Inevitable confrontation with the concrete results of one's ideals. Lessons to be learned from it. Willingness of heart."

and his Draco EROS, his tropical DESTINN and my sidereal share another degree:

7° WITCH FEEDS CHICKENS FRIGHTENED BY A HAWK SHE HAD TAMED.

Control of natural forces by the higher intelligence. Taming the strong, uplifting the weak. Transmutation through service.

http://www.mindfire.ca/The%20Astrology%20of%20Personality/Chapter%20Ten%20-%20The%20Degrees%20of%20the%20Zodiac%20and%20the%20Sabian%20Symbols.htm

Apart from that these relate to the same Duad-sign, as 5°00 - 7°30 contains the Duad of Sagittarius. Funny enough, it had to be Sagittarius!

posted March 10, 2015 03:36 PM            

quote:

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So, now for that 'preparatory stage'. I see it as a purgatory stage to rid oneself of fetters that hold the mind bondage. This stage too, I feel, could look rather different in detail depending on each case. What I would think to be the common denominator would be a period of shedding afflictions of the mind (and perhaps, also the body) that prevent one from realizing one's full potential prior to meeting the other person. By this I mean the purging of bad habits, of addictions (including, but not limited to, addictions to mind-altering substances), of dependence on external validation from other people, of insecurity about one's life purpose, of fears and phobias....all such kinds of debilitating things, again, depending on one's type. This, in many cases, would likely require an extended period of seclusion and introspection, maybe even a kind of spiritual quest involving a sincere effort to adopt an ethical lifestyle, with the result of shedding one's old skin like a snake. Over the course of years or even decades, this would lead to a process of becoming fully self-reliant, especially in an emotional sense. I would expect that people in such a stage would adopt spiritual development as their main goal, seeing all their other activities (creating, healing, defending...) as auxiliary to that goal, and as a service or sacrifice to creation; and that they would become fiercely determined to manifest the most positive version of themselves, not expecting any particular reward for their effort (such as finding their TF). They would do it because of an intense longing or hunger for oneness with the source of all life above all else. This would in time grant them the power of insight, and this would enable them to spot others on the same path, including their TF if incarnate at that point in time/space. I would think that this would also entail a sense of surrendering to a greater force, and the giving up of hoping, fretting, and wishing.

Images that come to mind which symbolize this stage to me are closely related to ideas of mysticism - such as, Buddha's seven years of searching for enlightenment and struggle with the Lord of Death; Jesus in the desert; or, to bring in the nerd perspective, Luke Skywalker's training on Dagobah

Hope this makes some sense.

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Oh, I started early.

posted March 10, 2015 06:10 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by I'm so cappy:
Oh, I started early.

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posted March 10, 2015 06:14 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Vajra:
Well, they say the early bird catches the worm, Cappy!

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We'll see
How do you figure out from the chart if one was born a twin flame? I'm curious how you'd diagnose me.

posted March 10, 2015 10:45 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Ceridwen:
Personally I am highly suspicious and hesitant about this theory of "switching souls". It seems to me a comfortable way to explain why the next man is the twinsoul again, and possibly the one after that and the one after that (in cases of serial monogamists).

(I am exaggerating a little, and I do not mean any offense to anyone).

On the other hand it could also be just another way of saying that we have many soulmates and we can find fulfillment and a "twinsoul-experience" with many of them, if we are mature enoguh.
That is something I definitely can subscribe to.

So I guess it might be just a matter of semantics for me. lol

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I agree 110%, Ceri, which is why I have seriously been wracking my brain (and heart and soul) about this one. I would have NEVER been even remotely open to such a thing, honestly. But, hey, maybe that's why it IS as it is. I've found my viewpoint to be changing about more things than I ever figured it might.

As such, I can't find any other explanation -- at the moment. And, it even seemed that the answer strangely came to me. It was a beautiful and overwhelming experience, too.

I think, should we consider the possibility at all there have to be firm guidelines and principles in place. Otherwise, it is FAR too easy, to simply avoid admitting failure or having been incorrect, to argue, 'oh, he just switched bodies.' No, no, no. There have to be bizarre, inexplicable events, and equally incredible connexions between both individuals.

Often, we'll find that 'our mistakes' have no relationship or connexion to our future partners. That shouldn't be the case. If two individuals have contracted to work together in such a phenomenal way, it MUST show.

As such, I'm half-believing it, given the astronomical unlikelihood of certain events that have transpired, and the bizarre connexions between my Twin and my Guardian. The fact they've even MET just floors me. ALL of the things that had to fall in line for THAT to happen. It's just ... crazy.

Honestly, if that's going to even be a factor, it has to show in the PEs of each, with equally impressive progressed synastry as well.

If, instead, we view the circumstance like 'what sort of chart would a Higher Self choose, in order to complete certain karma and prepare to reunite with their Twin Flame?' we can start to get a better picture.