posted August 03, 2003 12:06 AM            

I couldn't have said it better!! You're the bomb!!!

posted August 04, 2003 02:55 PM            

So people should experience something before making a judgement or offering an opinion. Well then let's apply your reasoning to various situations:

You should no longer wear a helmet while riding motor cross, although studies show that people who ride cycles have a greater chance of living if they wear a helmet, you should really experience the brain shattering impact BEFORE you put on that helmet.

Studies show that drinking and driving increases the chance of an accident with an innocent person.

Studies show DDT cause deterimental harm to animals / aquatic life by causing mutations in the DNA thereby causing birth defects.

Applying your logic to these types of conclusions that analyze data through human and animal studies, we should actually TRY these things out and see what, if any, impact they have on OUR lives. Obviously, the scientists did not treat their families with DDT, put them on cycles without helmets nor did they drink then get behind a wheel to see if they would kill anyone, so according to your thought process, they must be wrong since they lack the direct experience.

There is a federal institute that is under the wing of NIH (National Insititute of Health) called NIDA (National Institute of Drug Abuse). They study the effects of various illicit drugs and legal drugs (tobacco / caffiene / alcohol) on various animals (non-human primates, rats, mice, etc) in order to determine the effects they have on the physiology of the organism. THEIR research is a hell of alot more valid that a few drug users that "experienced a few highs without total impact". Although they may not have participated in any drug use, their in vivo research combined with true life facts based on statistical data and interviews with drug users is something I will take stock in and believe.

I don't need to jump off a building to understand that I will die when hitting the ground.

posted August 04, 2003 04:25 PM              

Lost Leo, you can experience the effects and still have the same opinion, I do. That's what my whole point was. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. It's just funny how people will do anything to try and get you do join them, even if you weren't even aware of the issue. It's mostly the doormats who get sucked into drugs. Do you agree?

I understand the logic of what you are saying but everyone has to say " I want to think for myself and have my own opinion". Why give that up to a drug when you are now a slave to it?

Some of us are not as strong willed as others, and some of those people are those we love. I do not think drugs make you stronger, or faster, or a better thinker but you can't argue with that kind of thinking. I'm fighting for the right to have my own opinion and in THIS world, on earth we all have to fight for it. We can't just give in to who ever argues more, or has a better argument. It's a personal issue but just because a person isn't using drugs does not mean they do not have a very strong opinion about them. We have a right and an obligation to ourselves to make a statement on any very personal subject.

I do not like so called tolerant people who are incredibly intolerant of what they can't control. Tolerance is about other people. Put a face on it. It's not about drugs, it's about other people. Tolerance is about humanity and it's a shame to see the words tolerance used to control another person's thinking. Do let yourself become a slave to a way of thinking or you will find ourself as rigid as you were before.

Lost Leo, if you do not understand where I am coming from, read the posts by starlover and I again.

posted August 05, 2003 12:57 AM              

so there.

(now doesn't that sound a bit pious?)

posted August 05, 2003 03:13 PM              

I'm telling you, mark my words. Marijuana will be legalized within the next 30 years in the U.S.

Did any of you see the big Rolling Stones and Freinds concert in Toronto last week? There was about 40,000 Americans there, and believe me, they were lighting up joints left right and center, almost seeming to be testing the new decriminalization law. There were cops and security guards everwhere, and they just stood there. Some of them may have even got high off of all the smoke around them!
But, it was such a peacefull crowd. Barely any incidents at all, and there were uhh, I dunno, like half a million people there or something. Only 8 arrests. The crowd was super mellow, man. (said in my Tommy Chong voice)

posted August 05, 2003 04:00 PM            

To my knowledge this does not happen to people ingesting food items or else the FDA would not approve them through their extensive GRAS (generally recognized as safe) process.

Now, causing reactions such as a sour stomach, diarrhea due to intolerance or flatulance, does not mean a product is a narcotic and should be banned.

I do have intimate knowledge of the procedures used to approval food and drugs here in the US as I worked on a few product approvals for my company with the FDA. It is a long process with tons and tons of clinical, animal and in vitro testing. I also ran the veterinary diagnostic laboratory for our state university out here in downtown Baltimore and worked with veterinarians that treated the animals in the NIDA drug studies. My role was to insure the safety and health of the laboratory animals by running diagnostics that screened for parasites, viruses and bacterial infections. It was in those studies that various chemicals were tested (like food items or food additives) to screen for adverse effects or potential toxic ramifications.

posted August 05, 2003 04:16 PM              

The parallel I was trying to draw was that jalapenos are not for everyone, and that's ok. Marijuana is not for everyone, and that's ok. Both are a product of mother nature, and the effects of both vary from one individual to the next. If one has a weak stomache, they ought not partake in jalapeno munching. If one has a sensitive nervous system/emotional nature, they ought not partake in miss Mary Jane.

posted August 05, 2003 05:09 PM              

interesting tidbit - the amphetamine that forms the heart of Ecstacy was actually used in group therapy sessions until its widespread recreational use lead to it being banned.

Its not the drugs that are inherently dangerous (unless you like cyanide..)- its the method by which they're used. I daresay alot of prescription cough medicines, mental disorder tablets and even stronger headache pills could do some pretty funky stuff that sooner or later someone will find out about.

So, how do you deal with such a problem? basically you can't. I'd rather someone was sitting in a club on pills and chatting rubbish to me on a saturday night rather than stalking an alley somewhere looking for someone to rape.

I dont think its possible to stamp out a drug problem, especially not with the way most people today feel - the stress causes people to look for a way to escape because like it or not we aren't socially evolved to a level anywhere near our technological acheivements, which is why things strain...and crack...and break....and...oh i ODed on heroin *splat*. dead.

Nor is there anything wrong with the addicts themselves. As far as i'm aware they're all relatively normal people barring what extensive damage the compound in question has done to them.

I guess this argument could go around...and around...and around, but at the end of the day most people seem to agree its a symptom of something. That something is a bad, unnatural lifestyle - IMO.

just my two beans -dont take em at once!

posted August 05, 2003 05:29 PM              

Marijuana also has the positive effect of making one very ponderous, philisophical and introspective, which leads to enlightenment. None of those other things have that effect, nor does alcohol.

You were quick to point out the obvious differences in my jalapeno analogy, so I'm obliged to point out the obvious differences in your cyanide, black tar heroine, etc. analogy. They are HUGELY different.

Marijuana just doesn't belong in the same catagory.

posted August 05, 2003 05:51 PM            

Does the jalapeno lower the inhibition, sperm count and severely decrease the structure of the microtubles in the individual sperm, thus decreasing fertility.

Does a one gram jalapeno cause the same potential toxic effects through ingestion than one gram of marijuana does while smoking it?

marijuana also causes major paranoia and anxiety in a fair number of the population, more that the same number of people that would experience a major adverse reaction to the jalapeno.

In reality, no one will ever legalize drugs due to the major lawsuits that would ensue due to overdoses, reckless driving, adverse reactions etc.. First a company would have to sponsor the drug and it would need to be free from impurities. Tobacco has been grandfathered in to the approval process due to the fact that it has been legal for so long, but that hasn't stopped the lawsuits.

Then a company would have to perform clinical trials detailing all the adverse reactions, drug interactions and what segment of the population would be at most risk to these types of reactions.

The product liability insurance would be astronomical since it only takes the one class action lawsuit to stop all sales and wipe out the manufacturer.

Better to keep it illegal, at least that way you can still get it on the street. Otherwise you would pay a boat load more per dose to compensate for the marketing, insurance, research...etc...

posted August 05, 2003 06:00 PM            

I knew a Virgo that would get insanely philosophical after 1/2 a mug of Guinness.

For me, I do like to have a beer or two after work or a glass of wine while I am taking a bath. When I am with my friends, I notice that a few drinks gets everyone a bit more animated (there goes the non-elation theory) and a few more will get people talking about politics, God, astrology, the meaning of life (there goes the non-philosophy theory).

I have known many people that were really into marijuana and alot of them were "hooked". They needed the joint to unwind, to "feel" and it was kind of sad. One guy I knew pretty much smoked his Senior year away and I think he's a busboy now at 34 year of age. My ex-step brother got so wrapped up in it that he sought the feeling from the pot more than school and has no life.

The same can be said for alcoholics, cocaine addicts...etc...ANY substance that provides an escape, release or sense of euphoria has the danger of being abused.

posted August 05, 2003 06:18 PM              

BTW, the Canadian government has it's own "test crop" growing in some hydroponic lab somewhere, and BTW, it's been available in Canada through the health care system for palitive care for about 6 years already, although it's not made publically known, and it's NOT sponsered through any drug company. (they would be the ones to protest to it the loudest, as they don't like missing out on any almighty bucks.)

posted August 05, 2003 06:35 PM              

responsible use of drugs is exceptionally important because if you ask me its the only way to adequately enforce it. Making people aware of the effects wont stop them taking it, it will make them take it less, however.

posted August 05, 2003 08:38 PM              

I wouldn't compare drugs to obesity because one is legal and the other isn't, and besides there isn't the scientific nonesense being spouted about how sugar is really good for you. I do not like it when I read so called scientific facts regarding some drugs, when these facts are not backed up. It's just silly to me without proof. Don't worry about protecting your theory.
But back to your main question, I have to ask, do you think drugs bring out a better or different personality?

posted August 05, 2003 11:33 PM              

As for the other drugs, I have freinds who really struggled with coke additions. Some of them probably still do, but I don't know them anymore. I never took up anything beyond pot. Oh, sure I've experiemented, but I can't deal with the after-effects. I tended to end up babysitting friends who indulged. That lost it's appeal quickly.

Nobody should ever try to pursuade anyone to try, say crack, for instance. That variety of drugs is a scurge on the landscape of modern society and I cannot condone the use of it, and LL I dearly hope you don't partake in that stuff, or it's kin.

My hope is for people to see the distinction between the dangerous and elicit lab generated drugs and plain ol' Mary Jane.