posted August 26, 2006 05:09 AM              

It's a tentative thing because of the possibility for extreme conclusions.
for instance, that showing you support might be another dividing line and might be taken as I'm against everyone else. And that's not at all my intention.
There is so much only this or only that.
If you believe this, it means you're that.
If you are against the war, then you are a terrorist supporter.
Just wanted to let you know that it could be understood that you have a rightful cause close to your heart to voice (which is different altogether from being a trouble-maker-- 2 distinct things).

posted August 26, 2006 11:40 AM              

You also know that no one on the liberal side can even put a post in regarding an item of news or anything else that disagrees with the Bush administration or gives a differing view of the war or anything else without immediately being verbally attacked for it by the Republican neo-cons at GU. I'm not speaking of you here at all, Eleanore because you don't attack people verbally in any way. You just give your viewpoint, explain why you disagree etc. without the name calling and personal attacks. I respect you very much for that.

I have been taking time away from GU because I needed a break from all that arguing and Charlotte just recently came to GU during my break. I am not familiar with her at all but it seems as soon as she came to GU she joined in on the personal attacks on DD on a couple of threads. She has only been at GU for a month according to her profile so it appears, and the operative word here is "appears," that she joined LL for that specific purpose, to attack others. I notice that no one here or at GU is calling Charlotte a "troll" as they are LMoon. Wonder why that is.

Randall is the moderator at GU. It is up to him to clean up that thread at LL or not. But as long as he allows any kind of name calling and personal attacks from ANY SIDE,liberals or consevatives it is going to continue getting worse. People will join LL just for the specific purpose of verbally abusing other members. Actually I have noticed that this kind of thing has now spread to other areas of GU. I am not speaking of Bush either. He is not a member of LL. He is a public figure and since respect has to be earned and doesn't come with a title he is fair game. Just as is Clinton and Kerry who Jwhop slanders often but claims we cannot say anything bad about Bush or make jokes about his intelligence. Jwhop claims he has a right ( speaking of making excuses for your behavior ) to verbally assault liberals for doing that. He and Pidaua also claim as long they do not say anything about a person's race they can call them any other name and attack them personally in any other way. They actually place "standards" on verbal abuse to justify it.

posted August 26, 2006 12:16 PM            

When I think of that one person, every Muslim I dont know is a potential terrorist to me and I'd much rather they not be let into this country.

Yes, it is fear. If there are terrorists that are willing to strap bombs onto their children, onto themselves, and kill randomly, no one is really safe, Christian, Jew, Atheist, Wiccan or Muslim.

I am sorry that a belief system that you enjoy so much places you under so much suspicion, but that's just the way it is. I'm not going to lie to make you feel better. I'm not going to be PC. If you are wearing Muslim garb, it is guaranteed that someone is going to be worried about why you're around them.

Of course, if you're talking to people, they get a chance to know you and see that you're just like everybody else.

posted August 26, 2006 01:12 PM            

quote:

---

I do not condone what VL said to Isis anymore than I condone what was said to her that prompted that outburst

---

Nothing was said to her to "prompt" that outburst.

Actually, the post preceeding her "wh@re" comment was to you.

So tell me Mirandee, how it is that me saying I perceived your outlook of the world to be negative and given to conspiracy theories, and felt sorry for such an outlook, "prompted an outburst" from VL, which was basically to call me a wh@re ?

I love how you twist things.

posted August 26, 2006 01:22 PM              

You will not succeed in trying to cover your racist tracks by changing the subject Isis. You are no victim here.

posted August 26, 2006 01:26 PM              

DayDreamer..if how you are approaching something..is not working..then you must try a new way..

this is one of things that I have learned..

there is a reason why you feel attacked..and youmust figure out a new way to express yourSelf..without insulting anyone..

You get what you give. ...

posted August 26, 2006 01:28 PM            

You complain about my statements about John Kerry...the traitor John Kerry and you also complain about my statements about Commander Corruption, Bill Clinton.

However Mirandee, I backed those statements up with facts from the historical record of what Kerry did and what the United States Constitution says about what he did. The US Constitution defines what John Kerry actually did as Treason..in that Kerry gave aid and comfort to the communist North Vietnamese and adopted their peace plan, pushing the plan of an enemy the United States was at war with...in opposition to the plan adopted by the United States. That's treason, pure and simple.

John Kerry also lead a group of so called Vietnam Vets, the Winter Soldiers...many of whom were never in Vietnam and some of whom never served in the military forces of the United States at all but gave lying first hand statements of what they had personally witnessed accusing the United States Military and the command structure of war crimes..which they said was a routine and daily occurrence.

This group was penetrated, funded, advised and directed by intelligence agents of North Vietnam and the Soviet Union. Perhaps you recall the United States was at war with communist North Vietnam and the Soviet Union was their main supporter and supplier of arms and tactics...even to the point of sending Soviet military advisors into North Vietnam.

I also posted the presidential poll of noted historians and presidential watchers from a study done through the auspices of CSPAN which was a YEAR in the making.

In that poll of noted historians and presidential watchers, Commander Corruption, Bill Clinton was voted the most corrupt president in the history of the United States.

Now Mirandee, those are FACTS and everything I've said is on the historical record.

Now let's examine what you've said about Bush.

You've repeatedly called Bush a liar. When I've asked you to provide a quote where Bush lied...i.e., deliberately uttered an untrue statement that he knew was false in order to deceive America or any other audience in any speech he's made, YOU Mirandee, fell back on innuendo, rumor, supposition and outright lies and said in effect, everyone knows that is true. If it were true Mirandee then you would be able to find the lying quote and post it but you never did. Though I must have asked you to do so at least 5 to 7 times, you never did.

You later went on to call Bush a thief but you were never able or willing to back that up with anything definitive either.

The only way you and your leftist buddies from the Marxist/Progressive left get away with defaming Bush is BECAUSE he is a public figure. However Mirandee that doesn't make you and the rest of the leftist comrades commendable or your unproven and unprovable allegations any less inflammatory. Nor should you expect those allegations would not be examined and commented upon.

You and others have directly attacked his character, his physical appearance, his honesty, his integrity, his state of spirituality, his motives and virtually every facet of his person.

Personal attacks and yet you think you should be immune from having your motives, your honesty, your integrity, your character and your associations with the radical fringe left...those should not be commented on.

I'm way past granting you any status as a victim and very much over hearing of the martyr status you've assigned yourself.

Now Mirandee and anyone else...I don't give a tinkers damn what you may think about Bush or about Bush administration policies. Your posts are full of definitive statements which are not qualified with qualifiers like..I think, or I believe. They are flat statements as if they are fact. We could talk about the I believe or I think kinds of statements and I or others would ask you the usual, what did he do, what did he say, show me.... etc., etc., etc.

posted August 26, 2006 01:29 PM            

You are just trying to cause drama here because a) you like to cause drama and discord and b) you were banned and it p*sses you off to no end.

And kudos to you, because you've succeeded. You have achieved your goal, feel better now?

posted August 26, 2006 02:18 PM            

I don't think L Moon is VL/TP -- L Moon seems to have a larger vocabulary and doesn't resort to epithets

From Mirandee ~

quote:

---

It's a shame that many of you here at LL who probably have some very good thoughts and opinions on what is taking place in the world from a spiritual standpoint won't post at GU because of all the personal attacks, labeling and name calling by just a few people.

---

jwhop ~

quote:

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You and others have directly attacked his [Bush's] character, his physical appearance, his honesty, his integrity, his state of spirituality, his motives and virtually every facet of his person.

---

posted August 26, 2006 02:52 PM            

quote:

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You and others have directly attacked his [Bush's] character, his physical appearance, his honesty, his integrity, his state of spirituality, his motives and virtually every facet of his person.

And YOU haven’t done the same thing to every “leftist” you run across...Azalaksh
??

---

Well, that's right, I haven't attacked leftists on every level of their being as Bush has been attacked here. If the search function was working at GU, I'd post some pictures people here have put up depicting Bush as Hitler, as Satan, as King, as Dictator...well, you name it and it's been posted. Not to mention attacks on the President's wife and his daughters.

But the truth is that I never attacked anyone here...until well after the Bush bashing party had started...and before I laid into the bashers, I noted their comments were not discussion about policy but were rather personal attacks on the person of the President.

Further Azalaksh, on at least 3 other occasions, I called for discussion of policy issues and not personal attacks against the person Bush himself.

posted August 26, 2006 03:40 PM            

Furthermore, I don't know what has led you and some others to decide for yourselves that personally attacking and verbally abusing a public figure is somehow acceptable around here just because of their status. More often than not, I don't see intelligent debates about policies or decisions that don't somehow spiral down into negative personal comments about Pres. Bush and his adminsitration coming from the left.

Please show me where it states specifically somewhere on this site that it's okay and perfectly acceptable to bash a public figure here.

I don't understand that attitude at all. I just don't. Defaming someone's character is the same lowly thing to do whether the person is an average jane or joe online, in your neighborhood or a famous person. Yet all I hear is that it comes with the terroritory. Sadly, it seems that defaming other people gets you retaliated on too ... and that comes with the territory. Just because you and some others around here aren't offended by what you post about Pres. Bush, this adminstration or this war doesn't mean nobody else does. Why wouldn't a conservative be just as upset over their political beliefs being bashed as DayDreamer is when she feels her religion is being bashed? Why? Why don't they have the right to get angry back but she does? Who set those standards around here?

And guess what? Everyone who's made these outlandish comments that outright state or suggest that Bush and this adminstration are baby-killers ... I take that personally as well. Why? Because my husband is in the military. The higher ups may call the shots but when it comes down to getting things done with military power, it's the solidiers who get it done. So if anyone has been killing babies, like some of you are so fond of suggesting, then you're including the solidiers in that ... and that includes my husband and pidaua's husband and a few more around here. And I for one take great offense at having my husband, directly or indirectly, be referred to as a baby killer.

My point is that if anyone is going to get banned for personal attacks like some keep pushing for here then ALL should get banned who've engaged in that behavior. Every single last one of us who has made a personally insulting comment about anyone, whether they are just you and me or a public figure. Justice isn't justice unless it's applied to all.
And that includes DayDreamer. She jumped on me for no other reason than she "thought" I was right wing.

quote:

---

They weren't bombed to pieces like the many victims of all the wars you so obviously sympathize with.

---

I'm glad you see that I try very hard not to take it to a personal level. I appreciate that very much, Mirandee. However, what I don't understand is why few others, left and right, make the same attempt. I don't expect everyone to keep things squeaky clean in there because it's politics and politics is ugly. And the reason politics is ugly is that our political views clearly show, in many circumstances, our religious, spiritual, moral and ethical standards. So when you attack someone's political views, you're attacking all that as well. It's a fine line to walk and few succeed in getting their points across without letting their anger or hurt feelings get the best of them. And that's why, as far as I can tell, the standards of conduct are relaxed at GU. Otherwise, it would be me, Tink and juniperb, with perhaps a few others, debating politics all on our lonesome. No matter how much some people (not anyone in particular, I do hope I've been clear about that) want to sweep the ugly things that are going on in this world under the rug and only discuss things that they personally feel are "spiritual" ... that is unrealistic. There are ugly things out there and in us. I don't believe in repression or denial. And that's why Global Unity is here and why it's been tolerated the way it is for so long. And I think every single last one of us who has engaged in personal attacks or verbal abuse there owes Randall a great big thanks for not having kicked us out sooner instead of just complaints about how someone else should get banned but not ourselves for the exact same behavior.

posted August 26, 2006 03:41 PM            

Well, I'll be the first to jump in and say that that isn't true about jwhop. I fall to the left with some of my beliefs in politics sometimes. jwhop and I have had some pretty heated disucssions ourselves and been adamantly opposed to the other one's views but I can't recall ever being personally attacked or verbally abused by him and I'm sure he'd say the same about me.

posted August 26, 2006 04:00 PM              

It is essential to distinguish between criticism of Political Islam and either fear of Islam or fear, hatred or contempt for ordinary Muslims, who are themselves the victims of Political Islam. Human beings are worthy of respect but not all beliefs and not all practices must be respected. Yet moral criticism of Islamic practices or criticism of the Sharia is often dismissed and demonized as Islamophobic.

posted August 26, 2006 04:10 PM            

Eleanore,

GREAT POST!!! And you are absolutely right, I am tired of people here on the left calling Bush a Baby killer and making the assumption that for someone to be in the Military they are brainwashed, war-monger, baby-killers.

Like your Husband, mine is also in the Military he is a Soldier that has spent over 13 years serving his Country and involved in conflicts overseas. He is a Non-commissioned Officer - which leads me to the point that Mirandee ineffectively and in a slanderous manner tried to make about Bear being abusive to women.

That is exactly the point jwhop was making about people like Mirandee, DayDreamer and a few others painting people with a slanderous brush and defaming their character. My husband is NOT abusive towards women. He has always been respectful and has always addressed women in a polite manner. He has never said a cross word to me nor ever raised a hand at anyone unless he had to defend himself.

Salome posted a picture of him without his permission in that thread. She then went on to attack his friend for wearing a shirt with Che on it. His friend has the right to wear what he wants, regardless if he is a US Soldier. Bear got sick and tired of seeing me called names by VL such as that I look like man, that I am an ugly who@re and stating that Bear must be "fu*king some hot German woman while he is overseas because I am so ugly". What kind of a man sits back and watches an Internet troll and a few other trollish figures attack his wife AND his integrity?

When I told Salome it was a bit creepy of her to post his picture from the album she started to become irate. She then made the allegation that he was probably sitting home in his nice air-conditioned office while fellow Soldiers were being killed in Iraq and therefore he should be there too.

How does a wife take that? Is she trying to make the sly remark that my husband should go to Iraq so that he can be killed? When we justified what he was and why he was not in Iraq at this time (because he is the only one qualified to do his job and train other's to meet those qualifications) she turned it into an issue about airconditioned and accused Bear of being an abusive man and his actions were un-becoming of an Officer.

That is when Mirandee and a few others took their cue. Once they see a conservative being attacked - BAM.. they are on it.. going on and on with a diatribe of how evil that person it and how we should be ashamed of ourselves.

Have I called names? Yes and I was the first one to admit I came up with such zingers as "Drooling old Hag", "Idiot Queen" Queen of the twit clubs" "Passive - Aggressive twits".

In return I was called an angry b1tch, a wh@re with a big gash, a racist, a stupid ignorant woman (and this wa sall by DayDreamer and Rainbow.. the latter especially loved referring to my private region and using another posts calling me the angry b1tch). I was told I am ugly, old looking, that I look like a man. Archer told me that no man would ever want to have a child with me and that my exs almost deadly head injury as a child was funny and most likely caused because he would be with me in the future.

So Mirandee, don't you dare post inflammatory crap about me and say you all were only forced into saying such things because I was so mean as to call you members of the twit club. Time and Time again you and Rainbow pulled the Martyr card and acted as though everything you did was the result of jwhop or I making you do it. You have made extensive excuses for your actions stating that your planetary alignment somehow made you do it or that you were only retaliating.

Give me a break.

Jwhop has been right about the two of you- Mirandee and Rainbow with your baseless comments and outright character assassination of various public figures. To expect us not to say something to counter your lies is absolute nonsense. Mirandee you went even further by threatening jwhop when he posted a letter that countered what you stated on a thread in GU. You accused him of lying and altering documents. You went so far as to threaten his livlihood when you stated you would take the evidence to a team of lawyers on and on..

In the end, you were wrong. You offered a weak apology once again blaming someone else for your over-reaction and threats.

This thread was started about racism in GU. While people may not like being challenged, no one has made racists comments with the exception of the person juniperb mentioned and Venusian Love. I can't tell you how many times VL has made disparaging comments about the color of my skin and accusing me of trying to be White while selling out my own people.

One more thing.. for Mirandee to be so damn uptight and accusatory towards Bear - calling him a man that is abusive towards women, where were you when Carlo made outright degrogatory remarks to me? How about when IQ called me the angry b1tch because I disagreed with his philosophy? You sure didn't give a damn when Rainbow made the comment about my gash.

posted August 26, 2006 05:53 PM              

Im not going to add to this anymore.

posted August 26, 2006 05:59 PM            

quote:

---

Well, I'll be the first to jump in and say that that isn't true about jwhop. I fall to the left with some of my beliefs in politics sometimes. jwhop and I have had some pretty heated disucssions ourselves and been adamantly opposed to the other one's views but I can't recall ever being personally attacked or verbally abused by him and I'm sure he'd say the same about me.

---

posted August 26, 2006 09:41 PM              

quote:

---

And I'm beginning to resent being called a racist, just as much as DD resents being called a terrorist supporter.

---

Then stop calling her a terrorist supporter for not going along with ur views. Ur a very stupid woman to come in here making such a statement when you are the one who makes these remarks. SHUT UP!!!! You are not a victim!