posted June 28, 2007 07:34 PM              

Are you calling me a liar?

posted June 30, 2007 02:31 PM            

In fact, it would make casual conversation here impossible if everyone here must have first hand irrefutable proof in their hands of everything they say or relay...or risk the sin of lying.

Bush relied on the intelligence services of the United States and their briefings on the subject of Saddam's WMD programs...and his links to terrorist organizations, including al-Qaeda...not to mention every intelligence service in the world believed Saddam had stockpiled WMD.

So, if your standard for a "lie" is any statement which proves to be "inaccurate"..whether it's knowingly inaccurate and intended to deceive or not...then let me suggest you either buckle up acoustic..or remain silent.

posted July 02, 2007 01:48 PM            

And here you are attempting to have both sides of the issue and you can't defend either one logically.

"I didn't say this, you did acoustic."

quote:
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The factual basis for the stories is not known by any of us for certain...acoustic
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Your ever changing positions make no sense. If the factual basis of the stories don't matter then....why attempt to cast doubt on what the LA Times reported...that the articles were factual

What acoustic? You must be on the spot to see the actual event. You must be present to hear what is said..or forever have doubts about what is reported?

If that's true about you, you must have nothing in which you can really believe.

However, you seem to have no problem believing the worst about the US and accept as fact any story which reinforces your anti-America bias. You can't even bring yourself to accept the factual basis of the stories as reported by the LA Times but you seem to have swallowed the rest of the story...which would seem to put the US in a bad light...swallowed all that without so much as a hiccup."
http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/Forum16/HTML/001565-2.html

According to your own position on truth acoustic, you must have first hand knowledge something is true before reporting anything here at all.

posted July 02, 2007 06:12 PM            

Re-read my last two posts on that thread, and think hard about what you're reading. See if you can't find the actual point.

posted July 04, 2007 01:08 AM            

Not only did Jwhop make a point of how politicians lie (something he's since forgotten), but he unwittingly outed himself:

quote:

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You can assume everything I say is a lie or a distortion of the reality of the situation----and that's the honest truth. --Jwhop

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That could very well be the most self-aware statement I've ever seen from Jwhop.

_________________________________________________________________________________

Now, about the thread you wish to speak of, the issue was whether it was right or not for us to be paying Iraqi media to print our self-congratulatory pieces.

It wasn't about whether or not they were "basically factual."

quote:

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The military’s effort to disseminate propaganda in the Iraqi media is taking place even as U.S. officials are vowing to promote democratic principles, political transparency and freedom of speech to a country emerging from decades of dictatorship and corruption. It comes as the State Department is training Iraqi reporters in basic journalism skills and Western media ethics, including one workshop titled “The Role of Press in a Democratic Society.”

Underscoring the importance U.S. officials place on development of a Western-style media, Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld on Tuesday cited the proliferation of news organizations in Iraq as one of the country’s great successes since the ouster of Saddam Hussein. The hundreds of newspapers, television stations and other “free media” offer a “relief valve” for the Iraqi public to debate the issues of their burgeoning democracy, Rumsfeld said.

The military’s information operations campaign has sparked a backlash among some senior military officers in Iraq and at the Pentagon who argue that attempts to subvert the news media could destroy the U.S. military’s credibility both in foreign nations and with the American public.

“Here we are trying to create the principles of democracy in Iraq. Every speech we give in that country is about democracy. And we’re breaking all the first principles of democracy when we’re doing it,” said a senior Pentagon official who opposes the practice of planting stories in the Iraqi media. http://www.ft.com/cms/s/3ca72216-6179-11da-8470-0000779e2340.html

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posted July 05, 2007 12:44 PM            

And if the events and the circumstances surrounding those events WERE TRUE then your argument is a political argument against a US institution and the US itself...because no one can be dinged for simply telling the truth.

posted July 05, 2007 05:36 PM            

No one can be dinged for telling the truth? Even when it's not the whole truth? Perhaps I should illustrate via parable?

Johnny: Dad, you mind if I use the car to go meet some friends?

Dad: I'll tell you what, rake the lawn and mow the lawn, and I'll let you use the car.

Johnny: OK
______________________________

Johnny: Mom, can I get the keys to the car?

Mom: Did your Dad say you could use the car?

Johnny: Yeah, he said I could use it.

Johnny gets in the car, and drives off.

Dad to Mom: Where's he going? I told him he had to do some yardwork before he could go.

Mom: He told me that you said he could go.
[End]

Johnny told the 'truth' to his Mom, but you can sure as hell bet he's going to be "dinged" by his Dad since he didn't do his chores first.

Selective reporting isn't exactly truth, and when you're trying to bring a country up in the ways of democracy it isn't exactly smart to be caught paying to get your propaganda out.

posted July 06, 2007 12:28 PM            

Nevertheless.........

The news stories were true...end of the story acoustic.

posted July 06, 2007 08:51 PM            

quote:

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Mr NewsMax.

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posted July 07, 2007 12:56 PM            

But it's been proven here they lie through their teeth...doctored photos, lies in headlines, lying stories and an endless list of other deceptions....like the lying stories about Valarie Plame...secret agent and whom really leaked her name and CIA employment...and the lying story of why it was done.

Just one of a long, long, long list of leftist press fantasies and lies.

NewsMax often carries reprints of stories from those and other sources and so does WorldNetDaily.

posted July 07, 2007 01:32 PM            

So...NewsMax? You think I've stated an "absurdity" there, huh? Even with the conversation about Saddam supposedly ordering suicide attacks so fresh in your memory? Do you think you've miraculously won that debate somehow. I can assure you that you haven't (and don't have a prayer of doing so). Frankly, any document found that honestly said that much would have been plastered all over main stream media, and not even Fox News covered that lie of a piece.

posted July 08, 2007 02:14 PM            

Well it is nice to see you back and that your still live and kicking JW....

Actually, I assumed you were in jail, if anything else, just to see if the municipal system is truely living up to they're standards for your tax dollors! lol

posted July 08, 2007 07:55 PM            

------------------
Welcome back from the Sandbox Bear...I love you...Forever and a Day....

www.IMWITHFRED.com

posted July 09, 2007 10:41 PM            

My back is still hurting and my court case, I don't know what that is all about, but I've been working in the MMORPG called Second Life and for the most part, I actually like it.

If you want, you can always read up on the little details of the game, but for the most part, I'm a builder and learning how to do scripting there too, though I'm not really that good at scripting yet, I'm getting the idea on how it works.

Some people might tell you that it has it's problems, but for the most part, if one can deal with those problems, it can be used pretty much as a learning tool on many aspects.

Anyway, I'm really REALLY tired right niow, i've had a long night last night, so I guess I'll see you all later!