posted May 05, 2008 12:03 AM            

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Excuse me, but except for recently, I rarely post or even read here. I posted a thread here recently as i do once in awhile, yes.
My insensitive thick-skinned b*tch asss is not "drawn here".

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Sorry to provoke you, T.

Misunderstandings are par for the course, aren't they?
I'm just sharing my point of view,
trying my best to build bridges of communication.
If you have a missing link I would love to hear it.
I think I put a lot of energy into sharing my perspective.
If I did not put that energy in,
I would take responsibility for the results of my inactions.
I think, if you want to be understood,
you need to make the effort to communicate.
Otherwise, go on resigning yourself.

I know that I am no saint,
but at least I'm not calling you a "braindead twit".
So, why can't you overlook me, ignore me, or take me in stride?

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Having an angular Leo Mars has nothing to do with me or this, HSC.

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Really?

It has Nothing to do with you?

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Your pointing out the one aggressive planet and the house it falls in as the reason for why people are they way they are is weak to say the least.

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I am not pointing out one thing to explain everything, T.

Please, try to understand, I am just pointing out one or two or three or four things,
that seem, to me, to support my theories, and I have every right to share my thoughts with everyone here.
If you have something of your own to say, I would love to hear it.
But simply denying that the 7th house mars has anything to do with anything is stubborn bull.

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We are more than our astrological charts (especially one small aspect of them) and so are the reasons for why we do what we do and say what we say.

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Well said.

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Might I remind you that your tenth house water Sun is in an earth house? And my fourth house earth sun is in the opposite, a natural water house? My Moon also happens to be in a water house, the 8th, Scorpio's natural house along with other planets. My Sun and Moon trine each other, unlike yours. As I recall, your Moon is in an angular house (Aries natural house) and is in a sign that is not the most notorius for being "sensitive" (Aquarius). That Moon energy is what I'm seeing coming out in you these days.

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Now you are doing the very thing that,
in your last breath, you just told me not to do.

I dont deny any of the energies coming out of me, Tara.
I own them, and I am standing up for what I believe in.
Thank you for sharing your own insights into my chart and behavior.

I really think we are just natural opposites,
and it is fascinating to me to see how we differ.
I am always trying to understand you better and to communicate with you.

posted May 05, 2008 12:04 AM            

quote:

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And I dont know how you came to the conclusion that people with a majority of their planets in the top half of the chart are more sensitive folk. In my astrological studies, I have learned the opposite.

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I never said I came to that conclusion. It is a theory of mine.
It is interesting that you seem to have found the opposite. We can discuss that.
But you have expressed it poorly, and I should clarify.
I am not saying they are more sensitive in general,
but, let's say, more "reactive"?

They are very involved in the outer world, are they not?

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Mine are mostly on the western side of my chart anyway. Not below the horizon.

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Your Sun, Mercury, Venus, and Jupiter, are in the lower hemisphere,
then there are two planets in the 7th, a hidden Moon,
and then the outer planets are in the upper half, in aspect to Mars.
Other than your Ascendant (ruler conjunct Mars), and your outer planets,
everything is in either a personal house or a personal sign.

But there is no point in ironing out the devils.
None of this has any bearing on this discussion at all, right?

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And you know damn well that,

Among the poets, you are Venus retrograde.

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I dont understand what you mean.

Or what your intention is here.

Venus in retrograde has its own gifts.

Especially conjunct the Sun, Uranus, and the Midheaven.

So there.

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Here's a napkin, because youve got some of your very own Mars dribbling down your chin again these days. I see it, and I hear it through the bright red hearts.

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Okay, Tara.

Love to you.

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And I know you are trying.

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I am. More than you know.

I'll spare you the hearts.

posted May 05, 2008 12:42 AM              

but not right now.

"Now you are doing the very thing that,
in your last breath, you just told me not to do."

HSC, I had a feeling you would bring that up. And almost mentioned what I was about to say before typing it, for just this very reason. But i chose not to, thinking you would understand it differently.

quote:

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I think, if you want to be understood,
you need to make the effort to communicate.
Otherwise, go on resigning yourself.

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You must have noticed by now that for the most part, it is not important to me whether I am understood or misunderstood by someone or not. Efforts to communicate or drill my opinions into people's heads are not as important to me as they are to you. Yes, we misunderstand each other oftentimes, but I dont feel the need or urge to really try to explian myself to you or anyone.

I think I understand you more than you think I do too. Thank you for taking the time to try and work it out.

I could get back to some more of this at some point.

posted May 05, 2008 02:57 AM              

"Anyone who wants "proof" please feel free to look it up yourself. 82 pages of threads long ... start at the beginning, grab some popcorn and some coffee and fasten your safety belts."

posted May 05, 2008 07:01 AM            

When someone steps out of line and turns a well meaning thread into a flame war, others step forward to let the person or persons, know that the action was inappropriate.

This isn't kindergarden. We don't need teachers to slap our hands when we already know right from wrong.

What is sad is that this type of divisive behaviour rears its ugly head every so often. We find ourselves right back into that open pit along the path that we have chosen to keep taking. All we need to do it take another path or choose NOT to step into the pit.

posted May 05, 2008 07:57 AM            

let's have a forum for releasing agression. if someone attacks you or says something that annoys you, you tell them "you wanna take this outside?"

so i suggest that the new forum be called (what else?) OUTSIDE.

you can do anything in this forum, like mixed martial arts. you can even hit below the belt. survival of the fittest. LOL. all animosities should be confined to this forum.

am i brilliant or am i brilliant?

posted May 05, 2008 09:01 AM            

quote:

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Actually, even this last heated moment has just about fizzled out...or at least lost momentum. So, it still Moderates itself. But if I chose a couple of Mods, who would you suggest?

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I think a stitch in time could save nine.

I would volunteer to moderate the new forum.

posted May 05, 2008 09:14 AM            

quote:

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HSC, I had a feeling you would bring that up.

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I think you should have listened to that feeling; I think it was intuition.

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And almost mentioned what I was about to say before typing it, for just this very reason.

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But you didnt care to drill anything into anyone's head?

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But i chose not to, thinking you would understand it differently.

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Tell me how to understand it.

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You must have noticed by now that for the most part, it is not important to me whether I am understood or misunderstood by someone or not. Efforts to communicate or drill my opinions into people's heads are not as important to me as they are to you. Yes, we misunderstand each other oftentimes, but I dont feel the need or urge to really try to explian myself to you or anyone.

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The point is, I was making a sincere effort at peacemaking and diplomacy.

For some reason, you eyed my every post with suspicion.

While people were still expressing their anger in curt, provocative tones, I tried hard to be respectful,
and all you could see was insincerity behind my hearts and gentle words.

We can argue all day and all night about who sees who clearly.
But I know I was feeling good yesterday, and synchronicities were popping up.
I was not angry, but I felt alive and connected and eager to open myself to everyone,
and to try to reach new levels of understanding between us all.

This thread was going well, and I think we had, and still have, a chance at something higher.
You came in with your post telling me I've "got Mars dribbling down my chin",
because I was defending my views with hearts and wit, and that upset you, for some reason. Why?

I can respect that you dont feel like communicating or "drilling your opinions", etc.,
but I think you cannot have it both ways; you still seem quite miffed when your own ideas are not swallowed whole.

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I think I understand you more than you think I do too.

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That goes without saying. And I dont think you do.

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Thank you for taking the time to try and work it out.

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So now you see that I was really trying? Thank you.

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I could get back to some more of this at some point.

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Suit yourself. We'll be here, doing our own thing.

posted May 05, 2008 09:32 AM            

quote:

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We also are adults and know when we are hitting below the belt so we need to take responsibility for our own actions.

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I completely agree, in theory.

In practice, some people are not taking that responsibility, or even expressing the least desire to do so.

posted May 05, 2008 09:34 AM            

quote:

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The point is, I was making a sincere effort at peacemaking and diplomacy.

For some reason, you eyed my every post with suspicion.

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Do you have a clue why one would view your attempt to be diplomatic after the debacle you have been embroiled in?

Clearly no one knows when you will bite again... trust is earned, not expected.

It is easier to make a mess than clean it up, yes?

Excellent to see you trying but maybe give others a chance to regroup before you bring their motives into question ?

juni

------------------
~
What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world is immortal"~

posted May 05, 2008 09:41 AM            

quote:

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Do you have a clue why one would view your attempt to be diplomatic after the debacle you have been embroiled in?

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Yes, I have a clue.

I can see how we could all view each other with suspicion.

Or make the effort to meet one another half way. The choice is ours.

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Clearly no one knows when you will bite again... trust is earned, not expected.

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The same may be said of anyone.
A fair rule of thumb to go by is,
if you use inflammatory language,
you will be more likely to excite my ire.
Occassionally, I may overlook it and let it slide,
but if you are responding to my most diplomatic efforts
by telling me I've got "Mars dribbling down my chin",
how do you expect me to go on respoinding with equanimity?
I think I am doing an exceptional job, all things considered.

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It is easier to make a mess than clean it up, yes?

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Yes, it is, juni.

I've been trying to clean this mess up for days.
And I dont believe I'm the one who made it,
just the one who refused to live in it.

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Excellent to see you trying but maybe give others a chance to regroup before you bring their motives into question ?

juni

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Fair enough. I think I am doing that, for the most part.

Thank you for trying to meet me half way.

posted May 05, 2008 09:42 AM              

But others disagree. And if HSC and BR and AG feel uncomfortable about it, we're back where we started.

HSC as moderator would pose the same problem. Jwhop and pid, for instance, aren't going to go for that and I can't blame them. (sorry HSC but would you want Jwhop as moderator?)

I think Juni was a moderator here at one point ... but same problem as with Eleanore.

I thought about zala, but she left FFA so probably isn't interested in GU.

How about MM?

posted May 05, 2008 09:46 AM              

quote:

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A fair rule of thumb to go by is,
if you use inflammatory language,
you will be more likely to excite my ire.
Occassionally, I may overlook it and let it slide,
but if you are responding to my most diplomatic efforts
by telling me I've got "Mars dribbling down my chin",
how do you expect me to go on respoinding with equanimity?
I think I am doing an exceptional job, all things considered.

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posted May 05, 2008 09:49 AM            

quote:

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I've been saying Eleanore should moderate here for years. She is so level-headed and fair-minded, on occasion I want to strangle her. (this is said with love)
But others disagree.

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Yes. I think Eleanore has shown her bias as much as any of us.

quote:

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And if HSC and BR and AG feel uncomfortable about it, we're back where we started.

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I dont know about that. I'm trying to take a novel approach here.

I think two forums is a great suggestion, and I have heard no suggestions at all from others, except, "lets go back to where we started".

Some people do seem to be open to my idea, and I think it, at least, warrants further discussion.

quote:

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HSC as moderator would pose the same problem. Jwhop and pid, for instance, aren't going to go for that and I can't blame them. (sorry HSC but would you want Jwhop as moderator?)

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Would Jwhop respect the rules?

I would, of course, be answerable to Randall.

Any complaints about my judgements could be made to him.

For my part, I am proposing a strict rule of law.

My own interpretations would not enter into it at all, if I can help it.

I just want to have no namecalling or direct insults.

If I did see posts with these things in them,
I would just move them to the other GU.

I dont think this is too much to ask.

posted May 05, 2008 09:59 AM            

quote:

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quote:
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A fair rule of thumb to go by is,
if you use inflammatory language,
you will be more likely to excite my ire.
Occassionally, I may overlook it and let it slide,
but if you are responding to my most diplomatic efforts
by telling me I've got "Mars dribbling down my chin",
how do you expect me to go on responding with perfect equanimity?
I think I am doing an exceptional job, all things considered.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This is what I mean about blaming others for our actions.

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I understand, and we all do it. Do you see that, too?

This is why I think we need to be realistic about the influence we have on each other.

We can all talk about lofty ideals of personal responsibility,
but our words ring hollow if we are "drilling it into" someone else
in a tone that is itself inflammatory and out of control.

You cannot ask me to understand how others can respond as if proked, as juni just asked,
and, in the same breath, expect me to take all the responsibility for my own reactions.

Do you see the illogic there?

We need to share the blame/responsibility.

Not try to take it all, or give it all to someone else.

That is how I have been seeing this.

And I have tried to take my share of the blame.

I'd love to hear a few of the others here do as much.

We've all said inflammatory and judgemental things,
and I think it is time now that we tried to move on,
and stop assigning blame to any single individual.

God Bless,
HSC

posted May 05, 2008 10:10 AM              

I will take 100% full responsibility for everything I have done and said. I will not protest that my words are the result of your provocations. You may or may not have inspired them, but I allowed them to happen. I am responsible for them.

Only children are allowed less.

posted May 05, 2008 10:17 AM            

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I respectfully disagree.

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Okay. I appreciate your disagreement, and your respect.

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I will take 100% full responsibility for everything I have done and said. I will not protest that my words are the result of your provocations. You may or may not have inspired them, but I allowed them to happen. I am responsible for them.

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Okay, TINK.

I think that is very admirable in a way.

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Only children are allowed less.

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You may see it that way. I think we are all children still.

We may protest and posture and play grown-up, as children do.

But ultimately we are all shortsighted and horribly flawed creatures, constantly falling and growing.

So, I tend to have lower expectations; for others, as well as for myself.

I prefer to give everyone the freedom to make mistakes,
and to be human and vulnerable and relatively unconscious.

I think this is only a realistic approach to life.

But I am glad we can disagree respectfully.

That means a lot to me.

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I don't think this is a "lofty" principle. I think this is basic and essential.

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I can respect that.

If you ever feel like explaining it to me more deeply,
I may come very quickly to share your views.

Who knows.

love,
s

posted May 05, 2008 11:15 AM              

quote:

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You may see it that way. I think we are all children still.

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hmmm this maybe explains better your general position.

I'll try to better explain mine.

I have a 19 month old son. I am responsible for his behavior. He is completely innocent of blame. I answer for him.
I also have a 15 year old stepson. He is learning (please God!) to accept responsibility for his actions. It's the duty of his parents to help him understand this, to teach him to do this. If they neglect this obligation, they will answer for it. When he is an adult, he must come to understand it himself. If he then refuses, then he will answer for it.
I'm 37. I am not a child, I am an adult. I am responsible for myself. I stand alone before God. Nobody answers for me. I answer for me.

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But ultimately we are all shortsighted and horribly flawed creatures, constantly falling and growing.

I prefer to give everyone the freedom to make mistakes,
and to be human and vulnerable and relatively unconscious.

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Of course we are flawed! And I understand that we all make mistakes. But if I blame my mistake on someone else, if I refuse to take responsibilty, how do I improve? How do I refine my actions without first looking inward? If it's always the other guys fault, then I have no need to look inward. Taking responsibilty is the first step in a long journey of mind and soul refinement.