posted May 04, 2008 02:42 PM            

Whatever people may think, I really dont want to go back and forth without trying to find a common ground.
I have been reflecting on this and trying to consider all sides (let me repeat that: all sides) of this matter.
Please, open your minds, give me a chance, and listen to what I have to say.

I appreciate that there are a lot of hurt feelings here, and that people think that nothing new is being said, but I believe I have recently made an effort to reach for a practical solution which honors both sides of this dilemma. I have been thinking a lot about what it means to "go within" and what it means to exert influence on the outer world. I honestly do not believe that one way is necessarily better than the other, and I think it probably has a lot to do with hemisphere emphasis in the natal chart. We all need to find what works for us. It seems to me that many people who are self-contained and do not care to exert influence as much are people with an emphasis in the yin houses and/or in the lower half (the "personal" houses) of the chart.
I think we may be able to reach a compromise that respects and validates both perspectives.

Here is what I propose, and I would appreciate your input:

Perhaps the fair alternative is to create a second forum for politics.

A Global Unity for the people who are "too sensitive",
and a Global Unity for the people who dont mind the rough stuff.

That would be a win-win situation, yes?

That way, the "too sensitive" people are not run out of town,
and the rest of you can keep things just the way they are.

Or, you can just say "F--- You" to the "too sensitive" people,
and think only of yourselves and what works for you.

But I think this would be arrogant and hippocritical,
as your argument has been that we are dismissive of your p.o.v.

Here is an attempt to respect, honor, and validate your views,
while doing the same for ours, and I think it is a very good idea.

Any takers?

Any objections?

posted May 04, 2008 03:08 PM            

Let's hear what everyone has to say.

posted May 04, 2008 03:18 PM              

How do we seperate ourselves? Do we decide for ourselves or does someone else decide for us? If it's someone else, who? Will some be allowed access to both forums? If I post on your forum without permission, what are the repercussions?

posted May 04, 2008 05:28 PM            

quote:

---

Its just bias waiting to happen.

---

Yes BUD and "too sensitive" smacks of elitism. Next thing you know many would be fighting over "who`s the most sensitive"

I`m not making fun of your idea HSC but do you see the pitfalls?
The devil is indeed in the details...

juni

------------------
~
What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world is immortal"~

posted May 04, 2008 05:46 PM            

It's the end of the world as we know it.
It's the end of the world as we know it.
It's the end of the world as we know it
and I feel fine

Six o'clock - TV hour.
Don't get caught in foreign towers.
Slash and burn, return, listen to yourself churn.
Lock it in, uniforming, book burning, blood
letting.
Every motive escalate. Automotive incinerate.
Light a candle, light a motive. Step down, step down.
Watch your heel crush, crushed, uh-oh, this means no fear cavalier.
Renegade steer clear! A tournament, tournament, a tournament of lies.
Offer me solutions, offer me alternatives
and I decline.

It's the end of the world as we know it.
It's the end of the world as we know it.
It's the end of the world as we know it and I feel fine.

The other night I dreamt of knives, continental
drift divide. Mountains sit in a line, Leonard
Bernstein. Leonid Brezhnev, Lenny Bruce and Lester
Bangs. Birthday party, cheesecake, jelly bean, boom! You
symbiotic, patriotic, slam bug net, right? Right.

posted May 04, 2008 05:48 PM            

When the night falls down
I wait for you and you come around
And the worlds alive
With the sounds of kids on the street outside
When you walk into the room
You pull me close and we start to move
And we're spinning with the stars above and you lift me up
In the world above

ooh baby do ya know what thats worth
ooh heaven is a place on earth
they say in heaven
'love comes first'
well make heaven
a place on earth
ooh heaven is a place on earth

When I feel alone
I reach for you and you bring me home
When I'm lost at sea
I hear your voice and it carries me
In this world we're just beginning
To understand the miracle of living
Baby I was afraid before I'm not afraid anymore...

heaven..
heaven..
heaven..

In this world we're just beginning
to understand the miracle of living
baby I was afraid before, I'm not afraid anymore

heaven..

posted May 04, 2008 05:49 PM            

"too sensitive" is the term many of you have chosen to apply

would you prefer i suggest a forum for "whimps" ??

posted May 04, 2008 06:02 PM            

quote:

---

The devil being in the details and all that, I have a few practical questions.

---

I welcome them.

quote:

---

How do we seperate ourselves?

---

We will have stricter rules in the new forum.
For instance, I propose no namecalling and no direct insults.
No "wimp"s, "woos"es, "twits", "braindead twits", "morons"s, and so on.
And, of course, no calling people "murderers" who have no ill intent.
And no referring to anyone as a "bigot", a "sheep", or a "pawn".
I think these are very reasonable and loose guidelines.
Sometimes a little order is just the thing to allow a greater freedom.
I'm willing to endure it if you are.

quote:

---

Do we decide for ourselves or does someone else decide for us?

---

We decide together.
I am in no hurry.
We will listen to one another,
and do our best to reach consensus.
If this is going to work,
we all need to be less rigid and dogmatic,
and less locked into our own ways of seeing.
We need to consider everyone's unique wishes and sensitivities.

quote:

---

If it's someone else, who?

---

See above.
It is an attempt at Democracy,
in the form of a Senate.

quote:

---

Will some be allowed access to both forums?

---

Everyone is free to post on either forum,
provided they try to respect the guidelines,
and the feelings of the other people.

quote:

---

If I post on your forum without permission, what are the repercussions?

---

You always have permission.

But if you flagrantly disregard the rules and the feelings of others,
the consequence is that everyone will know you are on the wrong forum,
and everyone is encouraged to refer you to the rules,
rather than to their own subjective ideals.

quote:

---

That's a start

---

Agreed.

Thank you for your help and cooperation.

posted May 04, 2008 06:29 PM            

That would a "no-no" too.

The majority of the people in the military,
and their loved ones, do not have ill intent.

posted May 04, 2008 07:07 PM            

Or a sensitive and insensitive GU?

I agree the sensitivity question would be difficult to gauge. I might not make it into the sensitive GU (and that makes me weep ).

A Right and a Left GU I think would end up fairly similar unless Jwhop confined himself to the Right one, in which case the one from the Right would be like Classic GU, and the one on the Left would be New GU. Global Unity 2.0.

posted May 04, 2008 07:44 PM            

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2386/is_2_114/ai_106981965

"Good fences make good neighbours":
history and significance of an ambiguous proverb -
The Twenty-First Katharine Briggs Memorial Lecture, November 2002

Contrary to popular opinion, those seemingly plain and simple truths called proverbs are anything but straightforward bits of traditional wisdom. A glance into any proverb collection reveals their contradictory nature: "Absence makes the heart grow fonder" but "Out of sight, out of mind." Proverbs are not universal truths, and their insights are not based on a logical philosophical system. Instead, they contain the general observations and experiences of humankind, including life's multifaceted contradictions. But matters are even more complex, since the meaning of a proverb depends on its function in a given context (see Krikmann 1974; Mieder 1989a, 20-2). As Kenneth Burke observed, metaphorical proverbs are strategies for dealing with situations: "In so far as situations are typical and recurrent in a given social structure, people develop names for them and strategies for handling them" (Burke 1941, 256). By naming social situations, proverbs express generalisations, influence or manipulate people, comment on behavioural patterns, satirise societal ills, strengthen accepted beliefs or comment on practical social conduct (Goodwin and Wenzel 1979; also in Mieder and Dundes 1994, 140-60). Above all, proverbs are used to free complex situations from ambiguity. However, as proverbs as analogies are of their nature ambiguous, that is, open to interpretation, they are of a vexing and paradoxical analogic ambiguity themselves (see Lieber 1984; also in Mieder and Dundes 1994, 99-126).

posted May 04, 2008 07:58 PM            

Not at all.

I believe we can all be civil.

>Or a sensitive and insensitive GU?

Not necessarily.

We are on the honor system.

So-called "insensitive" people may more easily take part in both forums,
whereas the so-called "sensitive" people would be more likely to keep to forum number 2, or "GU Part 2",
and only venture into the original GU if they were feeling especially powerful that day.
This way, we can all take part in the political discussions,
without having to make the choice to "suffer or be silent".
Ultimatums like that, although well-intentioned,
can become fanatical and tyrannical, if carried to an extreme.
Rather than expect others to rise to the level of our own standards,
we allow them the freedom to declare their right to a nonviolent environment.

quote:

---

I agree the sensitivity question would be difficult to gauge. I might not make it into the sensitive GU (and that makes me weep ).

---

This is why we will need to agree on some rules.

quote:

---

A Right and a Left GU I think would end up fairly similar unless Jwhop confined himself to the Right one, in which case the one from the Right would be like Classic GU, and the one on the Left would be New GU. Global Unity 2.0.

---

That is a very different propostion than the one I am making.

quote:

---

But if there were behavior rules as HSC is suggesting, then there wouldn't require a second forum (at least not if the rules were applied equally to both forums).

---

Well, some people dont want to go by those rules,
or hold others to that standard, and that is perfectly alright.
They are free to challenge themselves in that way, if they feel up to it,
and are able to brush it off with a sense of humor and playfulness.

posted May 04, 2008 07:59 PM            

quote:

---

What about the people who are in the Middle? The Moderates of GU? Where would they go?

---

Are you asking AG?

He is making a different proposition than I am.

I am not talking about dividing us up by our political affiliations.

I enjoy a spirited debate as much as the next guy.

I just think it is easier for some of us to grow and stretch our branches
if we are not "feeling" like we are being provoked,
or provoked in ways that are not conducive to our highest good.

We all need different things.
Some of us need more sunlight,
others need more time in the shade.
Some like to sit high up on a hill,
and overlook the battles below.
Some like to dwell in the far away valleys,
among the flowers and pleasantries.
Some feel no sting, and suffer no choke, from the sharpest thorns upon the vines.
Some sit low upon the ground, and need room to feel the warm sunshine.

posted May 04, 2008 08:06 PM            

If you don't want to be attacked in GU
Seperate yourself from your argument
back up your facts
and respect another's right to hold his own opinion.

I hate what you did in Jwhop's appreciation thread, why is it whenever someone has something nice to say (like a birthday thread) you guys ruin it? How would you like it if I did that to you? hmmm?

You intimate that you ponder the higher more spiritual side of life, is that what you're doing here?

posted May 04, 2008 08:16 PM            

I am sorry for posting in Amanda's thread.

I see now that it was not what I wanted to do.

I do not mind being debated with at all.

In fact, I frequently enjoy it.

But what I very rarely enjoy is being disrespected and insulted.

I realize that others do not feel disrespected and insulted,
and that they are better able to cope with that sort of thing,
for whatever reason or reasons that may be.

I am not asking anyone to change or give up anything.

I am only proposing a small expansion.

Love to you,

posted May 04, 2008 08:18 PM            

quote:

---

"too sensitive" is the term many of you have chosen to apply

---

Who is "you"? What catagory are you putting me in?

When did I call you "too sensitive"?

This sounds divisive just in theory

Again, do you see the pitfalls?

juni

------------------
~
What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world is immortal"~