posted May 05, 2008 07:54 PM            

juni

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~
What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world is immortal"~

posted May 05, 2008 08:00 PM              

~ No, I just feel I have "second wind now".

posted May 05, 2008 08:04 PM              

Just found another fake heart:

posted May 05, 2008 08:22 PM            

My position acoustic is that you and others here brought it on yourselves. You now have no basis for your whining.

posted May 05, 2008 08:26 PM            

I can say with great certainty that I really dont' care about the issue, but I find this sh!t-show to be entertaining.

I hope people aren't taking this too seriously.

I do see a lot of side taking, in that people just waltz in and fire a point for their friends side then leave. Once something becomes an "us vs. them" argument, psychological forces come into play which basically ruin everything. The people aren't arguing a point anymore, they're just trying to beat down the other side and prove their better. This is an evolutionary force we see throughout history, resulting in the death of many people.

At this point HSC you just seem to be going on momentum, and you're starting to trample people who stand in your path. I think it's clear you're not going to get what you want, and you can keep going and going forever but it's not going to bring you happiness, or anyone else. Then again, it is mildly entertaining. Everyone loves a spectacle I suppose.

Sorry for my "dissent" but I am cranky and suffering and this is how I feel. I feel nihilistic so I"m projecting that on your goals.

I don't agree that Jwhop should be banned, I'd rather have someone aroudn to project my animus onto from time to time, wouldn't you HSC? Everyone loves a villain.

posted May 05, 2008 08:45 PM            

quote:

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What hot seat is that acoustic?

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You know quite well what hot seat. The one that's put under you every few months when someone's had enough of your shenanigans.

quote:

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You now have no basis for your whining.

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For that to be true, I'd have to whine. Your perception is so far from the truth of the matter you have no idea. It's not me posting threads whining about this person or that all the time, is it? In fact, I would have to say that you take FAR more offense to your leaders being put in a bad light than any left-leaning person I'm currently aware of. It's a much bigger offense to you, in your mind, for your leaders to be criticized.

quote:

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You are, after all one of those who accused with your lying rhetoric and no proof.

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What lying rhetoric would that be by the way? Are you sure you're not manufacturing it within your own mind much like the rest of the nonsense you rail against?

quote:

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Besides which acoustic, I doubt you could go a week without violating the rule here if it was strictly enforced.

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posted May 05, 2008 08:48 PM            

When those of us not on "your" side err, we are to be insulted, directly or not. But when you err, the rest of us are so, like, unevolved for not immediately "forgiving" you. When you call out jwhop or anyone for their nasty comments, it's a positive effort for understanding and peace. But when someone calls out HSC for nasty comments, it's some sort of attack on his sensitive soul. At least HSC, given time, often recognizes and apologizes for his nasty comments.

Quick run through ...

Pidaua has more than taken responsibility for her words, openly and honestly, and has apologized for any past outbursts. She also doesn't make excuses for her behavior.

Tink doesn't pretend to be a diplomatic soul and also is willing to stand fully behind her words, both positive and negative. Though that last little bit of stinger seems lately to have molted some and grown feathers instead.

Isis makes no bones about anything. Ever. Is she the soul of kind words? No. But she doesn't fake it either ... and btw, saying you're one thing and behaving differently is quite the faking though I'm sure it would be nicer worded as "failing to live up to my own standards and please don't attack my sensitive self for it (no matter how I treat you or others)".

Juni? Juni is a frighteningly strong woman whose posts show her constant effort to live up to her own standards. But she has guns and she'll stick to them without resorting to childish games or personal insults.

Randall tolerates, and has tolerated for years, shiploads of trash talking under the guise of free speech and open discussion (hint, not referring solely to jwhop). He also has tolerated the presence of a number of people who have impuned his personal character, this website and various members ... Why does he do this? Because he is intolerant? Right. Because he plays favorites? Sure. <insert largest eyerolling smiley you can find here please>

BUD is a newer member and still gets lumped in with all the rest of us "badies" sometimes only because she leans to the right at times ... and because she can also see how it isn't only one person or "side" behaving inappropriately. The audacity of honesty.

26t could not be further from a rightie if she flattened the earth and pitched a tent on the furthest "left" regions of that world. But because she refuses to kow-tow to anyone she gets lumped, too. See, 26t and jwhop have had their disagreements. In fact, I don't recall reading many posts where 26t did not, at some level, disagree with the right or with most people to some degree. And yet she finds herself only under whose scrutiny?

Xodian and silverstone don't hardly get involved often at all ... and yet still somehow stand firm behind Randall. Must be they were brainwashed, too. Nevermind they are some of the kindest and most naturally intelligent persons on this site.

Jwhop lets us all know on a regular basis that he's fully aware of his wording and writing pattern ... and that he does it on purpose for the reasons you all choose to ignore even regardless of all the people who have pointed it out to you. It's not that he "can't help it", it's that he doesn't want to ... and as the rest of you do the same, though in an infinitely more passive aggressive and manipulative way, it would level nothing to ban his behavior if you all can't govern yourselves accordingly either. Repeatedly has he said ... you stop, I'll stop. And back when he hadn't started, the insults abounded ... only they were received with applaud and back clapping. But you say, we've done nothing or nothing as bad. Goose, gander? Pot, kettle? Oh, no. Never. Generalized fowl and percolator ... not at all the same.

Me? Years I've been saying the same things. No, I don't like when jwhop gets nasty. Neither do I like when the rest of you blanket throw insults. No, I don't like that jwhop won't stop. Neither do I like that some of you won't even take responsibility for yourselves. Though BR thoroughly enjoys his presumptive mocking of me, I know full well I'm no saint. Not by a long shot. But I also have no shame in saying that none of us are saints. And that crawls under some people's skins. I don't recognize any of you as superior, evolved beings because your behavior belies your facade. Oh, Great Ozes, your curtains were pulled open long ago only, intent on your proselytizing, you failed to notice. I don't have concerns over what you believe, I don't mind if you are "right" or not on the grand scale, and I don't care if you like him or her or this or that. But as the only person you have any control over changing and elevating and being fully responsible for forever is yourself ... then we should all be doing that ourselves. As in, if every person out there first worked to "save" himself, the world would need no saving. But instead of doing this, regardless of espoused beliefs, you choose to come into the lion's den and poke sticks in the dark. Guess what? The lion never has to believe as you do. And only a fool walks into a lion's den, knowing full well Mr. Lion doesn't believe as you do, covered in tasty treats and repeatedly taunting Mr. Lion ... and then runs to the village and complains about the evil lion who for no reason tried to kill you. Is it right for the lion to try and eat you? Perhaps not. Perhaps Mr. Lion would be better off as a vegetarian. But seeing as you can't forcibly change Mr. Lion, wouldn't it be less masochistic to just avoid Mr. Lion altogether? Or to try to inspire him with your behavior, assuming you can take the risks and remain unhurt within? That way, if Mr. Lion wanders the village and starts picking off the children, there will be no doubt in the minds of the local authorities that Mr. Lion is the one and only problem and must be removed for the safety of the community. But that would be too reasonable.

posted May 05, 2008 09:36 PM            

quote:

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The Good

The good are vulnerable
As any bird in flight,
They do not think of safety,
Are blind to possible extinction
And when most vulnerable
Are most themselves.

The good are real as the sun,
Are best perceived through clouds
Of casual corruption
That cannot kill the luminous sufficiency
That shines on city, sea and wilderness,
Fastidiously revealing
One man to another,
Who yet will not accept
Responsibilities of light.

The good incline to praise,
To have the knack of seeing that
The best is not destroyed
Although forever threatened.
The good go naked in all weathers,
And by their nakedness rebuke
The small protective sanities
That hide men from themselves.

The good are difficult to see
Though open, rare, destructible;
Always, they retain a kind of youth,
The vulnerable grace
Of any bird in flight,
Content to be itself,
Accomplished master and potential victim,
Accepting what the earth or sky intends.

I think that I know one or two
Among my friends.

~Brendan Kennelly

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Thank You, Emily

posted May 05, 2008 09:43 PM            

1. the lair or shelter of a wild animal, esp. a predatory mammal.

2. a room, often secluded, in a house or apartment, designed to provide a quiet, comfortable, and informal atmosphere for conversation, reading, writing, etc.

posted May 05, 2008 09:55 PM            

I really dont feel like ironing out all the devils right now,
but I think you are rushing to judgement on a number of things,
and not seeing things in context, or recognizing some very real distinctions.

No offense. That is just what I think.
I wont take offense to what you said,
if you dont take offense to this.

Deal?

quote:

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...how many of you will finally accept the opinions and feelings of others here regarding how insulting you are to them?
You know, not arguing that soandso can't be insulted by what you said because you've decided suchandsuch isn't insulting...

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I did think this was fairly brilliant, though.

Still, everything is only partially true.
It seems that the more I think and understand, the more clearly
I am able to see details, distinctions, exceptions, and particulars.

It is so difficult to really discuss an actual situation
by relying entirely on cliches and rules of thumb.
We are so quick to reach for the closest one-liner or truism,
we dont bother to consider all the nuances and shades of grey.
It is amazing to me that we all make the same errors, endlessly.

posted May 05, 2008 09:59 PM            

No worries, mate.

Do your own thing, by all means.

posted May 05, 2008 10:32 PM              

quote:

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me:

And um, I havent written you.
--------------------------------------------
you:

No, not since I've been disagreeing with you so strongly this past week.

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No, Steve. It was before that. The last email I sent you I said I would get back to you soon. That I had a lot going on and a lot on my mind or whatever and I did. Point is; I didnt stop emailing you because of this BS. And you know that.

ALSO

For the most part, we exchange a couple of emails rarely here and there and you ask me to stop emailing you now. For years it has always been you asking me to email or communicate with you, so dont make it seem like I email you all the time and now you have to ask me to stop.

When someone is not writing you, you dont need to ask them to stop.

posted May 05, 2008 10:45 PM              

MM ~ yes, I did assume you shared the same general opinion as HSC ... about GU, about Jwhop, about me (and I don't mean "complex" ) I am guilty of lumping. I didn't know, and not having much to go by I allowed myself the assumption.
Very nice to meet you.

HSC ~ I still don't feel the need to respond. Although I'm sure we share other common ground besides our apparently endless propensity to argue, that one bad habit seems to get in the way of discovering anything else. I think that at this point you could declare the sky blue and I could claim the grass green and we would each find a way to debate the other.

Juni, btw, has a strong mind and she takes her own counsel. She won't "go along" with me anywhere.

BR ~ I think this fabulous four thing is silly. I think the JEN thing is equally so. You know, I was willing to believe that HSC and LTT are sometimes emotionally distraught by GU, but I could never quite picture you and AG having that same reaction.

quote:

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I do see a lot of side taking, in that people just waltz in and fire a point for their friends side then leave. Once something becomes an "us vs. them" argument, psychological forces come into play which basically ruin everything. The people aren't arguing a point anymore, they're just trying to beat down the other side and prove their better. This is an evolutionary force we see throughout history, resulting in the death of many people.

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Yes, maybe we've all been a bit guilty of this.