posted July 25, 2010 04:45 PM            

They are illusionist also, who make you believe what they tell you to believe, and how they secure the illusion is that they tend to isolate their prey. They will try and change a person, and they have great power to manipulate you to becoming what they want you to be through guilt or some kind of subtle coersion. Although they have no compassion, they can empathise, i.e. put themselves in your shoes. But unlike normal people they use the information against you after walking a mile in your shoes, instead of cultivating compassion from such. They understand the workings of the human very well, and they are highly sensitive to feeling people's energies. This is how they choose their prey because they will never mess with someone who isn't vulnerable to their tricks. They can almost smell a person that they can take advantage of, so they have extra sensory perception when it comes to sussing out people. They are calculative.

posted July 25, 2010 05:10 PM            

Narcissism and sociopathy are two different personality disorders. Narcissists feel a grandiose sense of entitlement, but are lower on the food chain that exists in the world of personality disorders.

I'll upload my dad's chart, I believe he suffers from primary psychopathy. Don't have TOB, but I'm pretty sure he has Libra asc, like I do.

posted July 25, 2010 06:12 PM            

quote:

---

The word socio becomes social. The planet Venus comes to mind. There is probably some kind of block in the plumbing of chart having to do with Venus or Libra (the social sign) or the house whose cusp(s) is/are in Libra. Then I'd look at Aquarius/Uranus or the house ruling Uranus. Then for pathological lying I'd look at Neptune's making a stressed relationship to Mercury or the 3rd House some how.

---

... and I guess I recognize all the three patterns that you mentioned in a chart of a person whom I'd rate the one and only real SOCIOPATH I ever met in my whole life (and I'm 40, a met a few people, some minor weirdos included, haha.) The way SRABBYDOG described it in the starting post of this thread comes close to the person I have in mind. I came very close to him for 2 years, and his sociopathy is quenched whith a lot of unhealthy narcissm and (mentally) sadistic traits. (In his lighter and fairer moments, he sometimes even admitted these traits.)

I studied that person's chart thoroughly, and these seem to be the main factors attributing to his Sociopath-streaks:

12th house Sun in Leo (this is probably a difficult placement for the Leo-principle to express in open, cheerful ways).

12th house-Sun square 3rd house-Neptune.
Also Mercury (11th) square Neptune.
(manipulation, misjudgement, mischievous, self-absorbed, feels offended easily, suspicious)

Pluto (12th) cj. ASC - Manipulation and Power instinct, ruhtlessness

Pluto/ASC oppose Saturn/DSC (the "passive aggressive"-principle)

1st-house Venus (self-love) in exakt square to Jupiter in 10th (greediness, self-aggrandizement, never satisfied, only busiy with fulfilling his own desires, vanity, arrogance)

Chiron in 7th oppose ASC, opp. Pluto, opp. Venus

posted July 25, 2010 08:26 PM            

I am interested in going over his chart including the transneptunian objects

I believe that any of the big transneptunian objects can be related to the magenetism and charisma that astrologers attributed to Pluto. After all, they are similar to Pluto because they are transneptunians.

I'd say that Orcus and Ixion are very similar to Pluto because they have 3:2 orbital resonance with Neptune like Pluto. They are classed as plutinos for that reason.

all these characteristics to Pluto could be found in Pluto's fellow transneptunians. They assigned the traits to Pluto without knowing that Pluto had buddies. They certainly aren't the uranian astrology/hamburg stuff.

------------------
Raymond Andrews,
President,Executive Director of Developmental Neurodiversity Association
Supporting the Neurodiversity Movement

posted July 25, 2010 08:51 PM            

Ami

posted July 25, 2010 11:49 PM            

anyways...just did a synastry chart between ted bundy and me...doesn't look good at all!! wow, this is what I get for doing things for s and g's....

posted July 26, 2010 04:11 AM            

Again, she has the Pisces/Aries influence with a Taurus Moon. She also has Capricorn ASC, Saturn in the 1st, Uruanus & Pluto in the 7th.

I've been a victim myself of my mum as well as in the abusive r/ship mentioned before in this thread. I don't have a Pisces moon in the 6th, but I do have a 7th house moon & Pluto which I think could be signs of abuse of power in relationships..the moon being the mother & the pluto being other r/ships?

meh, here's my psycho ex's chart to compare (its a HE)

posted July 26, 2010 08:24 AM            

Mars conj/square/opp Moon is a difficult energy, especially used in "Mind Control" when in Scorpio but Sun square Neptune, this has to be the most difficult psychological energy for a Pisces Riser. See, even the Sun is afflicted by Pluto. Many refuse to understand that Pluto rules Aries and when Pluto quincunxes an Aries Sun, the result is psychotic control freakish behaviour, which further damages the afflicted Neptune's behaviour.

I have seen Sun square Neptune in deadly catastrophes as well.

Jupiter in Capricorn will not help his case, and Sun in Aries with all this negativity, no way he can change until his Saturn Return. Maybe it will take the 2nd Saturn Return to create positive change.

Am happy for you that he is now an ex

If he joins this forum, he would even write 10 emotionally charged pages in his defense, and would fool many a Pisces Moon woman reader into becoming his next victim.

Notice Maira's dad: again Mars sq Moon with Mars in 12th, which can be just as difficult as Venus in 12th. My wife too has Mars sq Moon and knowing astrology has helped her become aware in tackling this energy, but it needs quite a bit of emotional self-control.

posted July 26, 2010 11:44 AM              

i remenber times ago,a similar thread was created about sociopathism beahviour here in LL.

it was extremely interesting,and i saw a video about sociopaths that talked exactly what you said.mostly are men,who are highly charismatic,charming and intelligent,also very pragmatical,narcissists,cold in feelings,calculative.

they use a mask that is highly elaborated too.

not to many can unmask them,and they are very aware of people´s weaknesses,so that they can use them,at their advantage.

ok,what would be showing here in a chart of a person who has these aspects?

i dont know if it can be sociopath,but very possibly a person that shows a charisma that attracts women like bees,highly manipulative and in need of control all times..women are in his life only to give him materials things,he lives to live in luxury,but not at his expense.

yes,he also uses his power through guilt or other coercion,that most people dont see.mostly on his family and gf´s.

he is a psychologist.... doesn't work in the field,but uses what he knows,against others.

posted July 26, 2010 12:01 PM            

Ami

posted July 26, 2010 12:26 PM              

nessus
Psyche
Hypnos ( the person always seems to have an hypnotic trait to use against others)
Kaali
Anubis
Rudra
Lucifer
Medusa
Nemesis
DNA ( just cause what matters most is always conected to the DNA code)

they all are about dark archetypes which i suppose to figure strongly in these type of people,or at least in people that might develop some of the traits of the sociopaths - mostly by hard aspects with each other´s.

- Neptune cj ASC in Sag,12th,(12th ruled by Scorpio)
- Nep squares Venus(ruler 10th &5th)
- Nep square Jup(ruler asc)
- Saturn(ruler 2nd of emocional security) squares Moon/ruler 8th) and Mec(ruler 9th) and Uranus( co-ruler 3rd) and Kiron

- Kiron placed 4th opose moon/merc/uranus
- Venus cj DNA in 10th with Sun/Nemesis cj in Virgo!

Nemesis cj SUn i guess it is a KEY HERE.

Mars(ruler 4th) cj Pluto(ruler 11th&12th)cj MC -THIS ONE DEFINATELY IS showing something.

- Pluto cj Moon & squares MEDUSA!

now moving onto the asteroids:

- ANUBIS wide cj MEDUSA in the 1st ( probably showing the darker need of deceiving others through charisma/image)?

- ANUBIS sq Mars/Nemesis.semisq Lilith
- MEDUSA sq Mars/Lilith

(OF NOTE...anubis cj my name asteroid in his chart.....)!

- PSYCHE oposes hypnos/Rudra and trines mars/pluto/Nemesis/MC - so see..he uses his psyche in his favor through powerful plutonian,martian energies...

(NOTE:Pyshce squares my Name Asteroid)

- LILITH 3rd : trine Moon/Merc/Kaali-so he is very aware of the Lilithian energies/coupled them wiht the Kaali Ones/Moon/and also in his way of relating to others

- KAALI is right on his DSC 17ºGEM

KAALI trines MOON/MERC/LILITH!opose NN.SQUARES DNA/NEMESIS...this one might hint something important too

- his MARS/PLUTO sqaures my NAME ASTEROID/NESSUS/ANUBIS/MEDUSA!

- his SUN/NEMESIS sq my Name Ast/ASC/Kaali

- his RUDRA/HYPNOS 2/4LEO 8TH..no surprise!oposes pyshce/semisq Kaali

-LUCIFER 5th trine his Sun. Sq my bf´s name asteroid and Osiris / guess this one talks about a dark complex of heroic figure/tied to my bf too.

( NOTE: MY bf+s name asteroid1 sq his NEP/NN/OSIRS ( i knew Osiris would be here,,he is extremely jealous/envy of my bf. also my BF NAME ASTEROID2 sq his LUCIFER & semisq Nessus & kikx his RUDRA...)

aS I suspected...this person has MANY DARK ARCHETYPE ASTEROIDS connected in hard aspects into each others.and tied with PLUTO/MARS/MOON.

posted July 26, 2010 12:33 PM            

I believe that we need to get our categories straight. That's one of the things that make us look ignorant to astronomers.

Nessus is classified as a centaur

centaurs have considerably longer orbits than asteroids
Nessus has an orbit of 122.42 years.
No asteroid comes close to orbiting that long. Asteroids tend to have orbits of up to around 4 years.

centaurs have more of a generational influence compared to asteroids that more of a personal-social influence

If you understand those differences , then you understand the orbital symbolisms that are in key in understanding how they work in Astrology

------------------
Raymond Andrews,
President,Executive Director of Developmental Neurodiversity Association
Supporting the Neurodiversity Movement

posted July 26, 2010 12:41 PM              

who is that?

hmm im talking about a person that i know...actually now i discovered some things that might hint why i dont like him/trust him

this was not the 1st time i looked at our charts together...but there are such hard connections....spooky ones also!

his URANUS cj my DNA/PLUTO/SATURN
his angel cj my Medusa/Anubis
his NEPTUNE cj my jup/uranus
his MEDUSA cj my IC.....
his KAALI cj my NN
his DNA/Venus cj my Nemesis
his NEMESIS/PLUTO/MARS/MC cj my ASC/MERC
his ANNA ( my name) cj my URANUS
his PSYCHE cj my LUCIFER

his IC cj my DSC! this one i dont understand...he must have some darker asteroid here....

his LUCIFER cj my MOON
his NESSUS cj my bfs asteroid in my CHART!!!

DRACONICS - SHOW pastLife history

his NESSUS cj my IC
his OSIRIS CJ my Ann/Kiron
hsi psych cj my nessus/mars
his Kiron cj my medusa/anubis/saturn/pluto
his anubis/medusa cj my RUDRA
his SUN/NEMESIS cj my DC
his kaali cj my neptune

REGULAR COMPOSITE

-uranus/ruler IC on asc oposing KIRON!
- Anubis/Medura sq venu/mars/kaali
- LILITH on IC cj Osiris!sq uranus/kiron & KIkunkx KAALI/JONNH
- Venus cj mars cj SATURN in 10th.ALL SQUARED BY MEDUSA.
--sun cj nemesis cj NN in 10th .ALL SQUARED BY NEPTUNE.

- JOHNPAUL CJ NESSUS CJ RUDRA! in 9th kikx osiris/psych & semisq mars/saturn-all this squars this person NAME ASTEROID!

- JONNHY cj LUCIFER!opose NN! does this mean that the person has some power over JOhn,when it relates to our relationship????

NOTE that my bf´s name asteroid is closely cj the two dark archetypes of LUCIFER/NESSUS/RUDRA!!

THIS PERSONS NAME squares MOON/HYPNOS/JOHNS!

IN MY NATAL,cj my saturn/medusa.Kikx my Kiron.in JOhns NATAL squares his ASC/Nemesis and kikx his kiron too!

posted July 26, 2010 12:43 PM              

it was a matter of speaking.but nessus is also classified as an asteroid in astro as the number 7066

COMPOSITE WITH HIM AND MY BF

- RUDRA CJ ASC.Sq jup/hypns/kaali.Kikx Kiron
- MERC CJ PLUTO 1ST.Sq jup/ruler 3rd
- MARS/ruler DSC cj Medusa.Opose Kiron
- ANUBIS CJ URanus/RULER 5TH,in 2nd.
- MOON/ruler MC cj OSIRIS CJ NEPTUNE/RUler6th.sq vENUS/ruler 8th & ASC

- Jupiter/ruler 3rd is cj IC.Sq Pluto/Merc/Rudra/AC

- LILITH 4th.OposeAnubis/Kaali.KikxNemesis

i knew it! LILITH cJ ANN!

- JONNHY is there too,sq MARSS/MEDUSA/kiron!kikx RUDRA!

- NESSUS CJ KAALI CJ HYPNOS in 10th!FROM 17 TO 20 CANCER!THE SABYANS TALK about searching nourishment where doenst exist anymore;Emotional Manipulation and Insincere charade masking what's really going on....SO TRUE!! and go figure...ALL SQUARE PLUTO!!!!

- stellium in 12th NA & venus ( sq by Uranus/Moon/Osirs)with Sun cj NN!so highly karmic!but at the same time with many secrets.

-LUCIFER 14LEO(: Ostentatious displays of egocentric achievements) trine Moon/Uranus/OSIRIS ( yes i already knew the significance....bad one!).Square NEPTUNE/ANUBIS.

posted July 26, 2010 04:15 PM            

quote:

---

My mother is a therapist,as I have said. She made me think that NORMAL selfishness was pathological.
She made me wonder "Was *I* a sociopath,psychopath etc cuz she constantly analyzed my thoughts and feelings.
I was thinking that these way out types took normal human drives such as selfishness and pushed them to the end of the scale.
Their issues were not different in kind but in degree.
Does anyone agree/ disagree?

---

Yes Ami, I totally agree. It's not a difference of style, but of degree. There is such thing as healthy narcissism, healthy schyzoid features, healthy everything really.
It's all just a matter of proportion. Balance is the key. Healthy narcissism for example is when I love myself enough to set a boundary in order not to get hurt, "don't hurt me, because I love me." type of thing. Unhealthy would be "I love me, and no one else exists, therefore I can do whatever I want."

I've also had these issues, dad's a completely functional psychopath, mom's histrionic, my ex-husband is a narc, so I tried to find "my box". I do have some histrionic features, but I figure that as long as I follow the golden rule, I'm ok.