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Author Topic:   SOCIOPATHY in the natal chart
letram
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posted July 29, 2010 07:23 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for letram     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
hi again iQ,

actually, i was rather concerned about anything suggestive in my chart for these kind of sociopathic tendancies.

if you are still happy to take a look, my birth details are - 20 august 1989, born in London UK @ 4:30am


a little OT - -

i just took a look at your site by the way, i was reading about the egyptian theme and relation to people with particular asteroids conjunct either the sun or asc. i foudn Sphinx exact on my ASC, interesting description, i think its quite possible it is accurate for me

back on topic --

but actually iQ, i wonder if you can see anything in my mothers chart, on the contrary, she has some aspects that seemd a little suggestive according to a poster here of being a sociopath, (leo sun in the 12th, ASC in virgo but with Pluto/uranus/venus/mercury in the 1st house, stellium)

i wonder however if she has any signatures of a victim theme. she has since her 20's had on off relations with a man who is a convicted killer (and believed to be a multiple murderer) and he has for many years used my mother, it has ceased just recently, i tried to convince her that he didnt love her (he never told her these things and he was a player)

i wonder if you can see anything dark in his chart? unfortunately i have no birth time for him, but just incase, i'll post his chart, maybe some asteroids arent dependant on birth times?

my mothers DOB info:

19th august 1968, 7:10 am @ Newcastle upon tyne

convicted killer considered psychopathic - 5 october 1969 born uk london

this man was working with infamous gangs and was believed to have been an extortionist, gangland enforcer, drug dealer, and into armed robberies and likely other murders. he was convicted for the murders of a bouncer and policeman in 1993 in the uk.

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DD
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posted July 29, 2010 07:24 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for DD     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
IQ,

there "may" have been a scenario of abuse in my childhood, or rather molestation (that is what I remember, think to remember), my mum though obvously thinks that there was "more" than I can remember, which always was a big load for me, as I did NOT rememeber, but it gave a feeling of insecurity and inability to trust my perceptions.
I must say though that my mum herself suffered abuse as a child,(there was even a trial), and it is like some dark energy is hovering above us, without being able to grasp it.

I realy would like to know if there was some abuse-like situation, or if it was just imagined or projected on me.

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DD
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posted July 29, 2010 07:32 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for DD     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
my mum`s chart:

my own:

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iQ
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posted July 29, 2010 07:59 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for iQ     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Lertram, I will get back to you tmrw on the other charts, we can analyze without the time of birth, no worries.

In your own chart, NESSUS sextiles DEJANIRA, no worries. Double Leo, Aries Moon, Mars in first, Venus in Libra, Neptune trine Mars.... you can get any girl you want.

Saturn in 5th is a major problem, but I have that too. It does not make us abusers but top notch losers in gambling.

You do have small 2 red fags:
1. Ascendant square Pluto: This might make you a bit too intorverted for your Leo Sun's liking.
2. Nessus con Mercury square LUST and KAALI: Nessus square Lust-Kaali might instigate a fantasy to practice ritual sex where you feel totally powerful, like a warlord having any girl he desires from the conquered land. You might want a goddess type/queen type girl to submit to your desires. Definitely not an abuse aspect, but indicative of a psychological power trip. You are a Triple Fire! Hero material. Dont worry unnecessarily.


DD,
Did you notice the "inheritance" of NESSUS opp Mercury?

Your mom has high chances of being abused because
1. Nessus opp Mercury in Scorpio. Mental/Psychological abuse potential.

2. KARMA conjunct DEJANIRA in Scorpio. Fated to suffer or survive an act of abuse. KARMA is not retrograde.

3. Nessus trines Mars, hence I think she survived, any abuse could have been an abuse attempt. But then again, we have to examine the chart of the predator.

In your case too, I think an abuse attempt did occur because
1. Nessus square Dejanira [2 degrees]
2. Nessus opp Sun and Mercury [3 degrees]
3. Saturn quincunx Moon and Uranus quincunx DEJANIRA

You may have escaped, and escaped easily as the most challenging aspects are not exact, but the emotional abuse did take effect [Saturn quincunx Moon], and it is up to you to introspect whether this childhood trauma is still affecting relationships. Nessus and KARMA are both in 7th.

Again, do you have the chart of the attempted predator?

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Ami Ann
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posted July 29, 2010 08:15 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Ann     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
You are amazing, IQ,

Ami

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iQ
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posted July 29, 2010 08:20 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for iQ     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Just doing my duty Ami.

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DD
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posted July 29, 2010 09:35 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for DD     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
IQ,

thank you for the analysis.

"ARMA is not retrograde. "
What does that mean?


"hence I think she survived"
Yes, she did, even though she did not remember how.
At a later time in her life there apparently had been a quite dangerous situation, that could have led to a "rape attempt", but as she said: "I talked myself out of this situation".
Nessus-Mercury, maybe?

"In your case too, I think an abuse attempt did occur because"
Oh yes, sure, an abuse attempt did occur, I just don`t remember if that attempt succeeded. Those times I remember I somehow was lucky, even though there have been VERY dangerous situations in that regard. And they of course had left a strong emotional impact, and I actually think they were most damaging to my emotional development.
I`ve also witnessed emotional abuse and manipulation in relationships of good friends of mine, and no matter what I tried to do, I couldn`t really get through to them. They did come to the realization that these relationships weren`t healthy on their own eventually though.
I think, even though nothing really HAPPENED to me, these observations and emotional impact DID instill a certain fear in me, especially concerning larger groups of people.
Well, I once was being beaten up by a group of maybe 15 youths, though interestingly the main protagonists were two girls. And I have been threatened to be killed quite some times during my childhood and youth.
Does that count as abuse, too?


"You may have escaped, and escaped easily"
Those occasions I remember, I escaped, but through sheer luck and not anything wise or great that I had been doing myself.

" but the emotional abuse did take effect [Saturn quincunx Moon]"
It absolutely did, yes, I can see that and feel it.


", and it is up to you to introspect whether this childhood trauma is still affecting relationships. Nessus and KARMA are both in 7th."
You know that this is the case.
Even though it is maybe even more a "young adolescence" trauma, but it did or does affect all kind of relationships very negatively.


"Again, do you have the chart of the attempted predator?"
No, I haven`t.


I must say though, that one time, maybe 8 years ago, I met someone (he was also interested in astrology), and could hear all alarm bells scream in my mind. I kept the meeting very short and then almost ran away. maybe I was doing the guy injustice, but it was the one time I remember to have listened to my gut instinct instantly.

This is our synastry chart - and no, I did not think of him when I was mentioning Nessus conjunct DESC. Actually I was thinking of Andy, who has been born just 13 days after this guy.
Still that Kaali-Dejanira-conjunction doesn`t look too cosy either.

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Ami Ann
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posted July 29, 2010 09:41 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Ann     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
(((DD)))
I know the journey you are starting on. I am here if or whenever you need me .


Ami

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Diablo
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posted July 29, 2010 09:47 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Diablo     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Ami, my aspect degrees orbs whatever. Im pretty sure I figured it out

sun conj. mars @ 6
sun opp. neptune @ -3
sun trine pluto @ -3
sun sq. AC -6
sun op. MC -7

moon sq. mercury @ -9
moon sq mars @ 5
moon opp. AC -5
moon sq. MC -4

mercury sq. pluto @ 7

mars opp. neptune @ -9
mars trine pluto @ -9
mars sq. AC @ 0
mars opp. MC @ -1

Have no idea what it means hahahaha

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Ami Ann
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posted July 29, 2010 09:50 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Ann     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I am not very good at all,Diablo, but I will spend some time looking them up. It may take me a WHILE


x o x Ami

------------------
I do unto others what they do unto me, only worse.
Pluto in Synastry

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Diablo
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posted July 29, 2010 09:51 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Diablo     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Take all the time you need hun xo

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DD
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posted July 29, 2010 10:05 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for DD     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thank you, Ami ,

but if I were just at the beginning of the journey, I probably wouldn`t have answered as honstly as I did.
I did BECAUSE I have put a great deal of the way behind me, even though there is still a long before me.

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Ami Ann
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posted July 29, 2010 10:10 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Ann     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
DD, you don't have to answer but if I did anything--any time --that was thoughtless, self centered or dumb in any way--my demeanor,jokes--anything----I apologize.
Ami

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DD
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posted July 29, 2010 01:04 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for DD     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
No, Ami,

you were like always just being kind and compassionate.
The thing is just, it sounded like you thought I was only at the beginning of my path, and I wanted to put that right.
It`s more like the middle I guess.

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Ami Ann
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posted July 29, 2010 01:10 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Ann     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
DD


Ami

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WinkAway
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posted July 29, 2010 04:59 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for WinkAway     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
IQ

I got the exact birth date for my ex and was unable to get the image code to post his chart here, but it is:

August 5, 1957
Salt Lake City, UT USA
7:57 PM MST

Here's mine for giggles..lol

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iQ
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posted July 30, 2010 05:53 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for iQ     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
DD, you have suffered physical abuse, no doubt, were you able to press charges? Saturn in Libra my dear, all those wicked will perish into the lower astral.

Seeing Michael's chart, more than Kaali-Dejanira it is the Mars opposition to your Dejanira that could have given you alarm bells. And did I not mention dangers of Scorpio Moon men with chart afflictions? He has a Scorpio Moon too with Pluto opp Saturn. His Neptune and Moon are also in 12th, meaning more prone to depression.


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iQ
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posted July 30, 2010 06:02 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for iQ     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Winkaway,
Your ex hubby has Moon quincunx Nessus by 1 degree! That further activated the Sun in 6th Leo and Nessus sq Dejanira to behave as a Sociopath.

About your own chart:
Nessus is cool, it is Neptune in 12th which is a depression red flag. And NEMESIS opposes DEJANIRA in Aries by 1 degree, so you are susceptible to enemies who play on your vulnerabilities of not being "Aries" enough i.e perceived lack of independence/pioneering spirit. Nothing that your Sagittarius Ascendant cannot handle.

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iQ
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posted July 30, 2010 06:14 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for iQ     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Lertram:
Your mom has many victim signatures to attract predatory/psycho/sociopathic partners:

1. Nessus squares Venus by 1 degree

2. Mars squares Dejanira by 2 degrees


3. Sun and Mercury in 12th, prone to hiding inner perceived guilt.

4. Sun weak square by Neptune, self sabotage, primarily due to point 3.


The Convict's Chart
======================
The main thing, not surprisingly is his Nessus also squares his Venus by 1 degree. Meaning his Nessus squares your mom's Venus by 2 degrees. Look at the frequency resonance here!

Also, his Neptune exactly squares your Mom's Neptune. He can manipulate her through guilt very easily. He also has retro Mercury conjunct Uranus to encourage his brilliantly twisted thinking.

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DiandraReborn25
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posted July 30, 2010 07:45 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
edite: wrong thread :P

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WinkAway
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posted July 30, 2010 11:52 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for WinkAway     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks IQ!

My family in general battles with depression, so this really makes sense. And yes, my Sag asc takes good care of me.

and of course so does my ex being a sociopath/psychopath lol..

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DD
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posted July 30, 2010 12:51 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for DD     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
IQ,

"you have suffered physical abuse, no doubt"
Yes, I did. Strange, I never really seen it like this, maybe also because people of my "peergroup" told me I should not "overdramatize", as I had not "even been to hospital".
I had to see a doctor afterwards though. But that was not the worst part of it. The wors part was that I could literally OBSERVE how "the shutter came down inside me".

The thing is, except for this incident of the beating, I had so many "almost" cases, and also cases where I felt like my boundaries were not being respected, though nothing harmful happened to me after all. Nothing of this was really a "horrible", and maybe other people would not even think about it twice. But being sensitive as I am it may have impressed me more than it would have others.

And of course, there were many "little" incidents that somehow added up I guess.


", were you able to press charges?"
No, I wasn`t.
We spoke to the police about it, but they advised us to not do anything (except for a note in their fileorders just in case someone else would experience like this, too, THEN they would have been able to do something. Don`t ask me. It`s been nearly 20 years ago.), as the chances of success in such a case were rather slim.
Actually this is something my mum heard from the police herself, too. Interstingly she mentioned it today, though we hadnīt been talking about that. Must be that psychic talent in her, too.
In her case the perprator was a friend`s father, and the police told her that she would not have a chance against his word (she was maybe 15-17 years then).
She told me today literally: "If I had had a knife that day, my life would have run a total different course."
I believe her.

In my case I was probably most shocked about my reaction.
During that incident of the beating some guys eventually made these two girls stop and thus put an end to this, helped me up and get my bike, and one of them asked completely flabbergasted: "How can you let someone beat you up like this without even trying to defend yourself?"
My answer came instantly: "I could never harm a living being."

Actually I think that cause more damage than what happened, as it made me realize how incapable I am of defending myself.

In another case the year before, while being in Berlin, my friend and me nearly got raped by two guys. The thing is, I was having a bottle in my hand - a weapon, and I was not able to use it. I even let them take that bottle away from me.
It was sheer luck - again - that we got out of that situation, unharmed.


On the other hand I remember that once I have been with my brother (the one with Downsyndrome) somewhere and a young guy pulled a knife and threatened to stab my brother.
I was reacting completely instinctively when I stepped towards that guy, ordered him to give me the knife, and actually gripped the knife at its blade. The guy was so perplexed that he instantly let go of the knife, and he actually ran away. Something about me must hhave scared him a little bit.

So I guess I am okay in protecting others, just not so good in protecting myself.

" Saturn in Libra my dear, all those wicked will perish into the lower astral."
Yes, I can feel that it is pay back time with Saturn in Libra, not in my old old cases, but generally.


"Seeing Michael's chart, more than Kaali-Dejanira it is the Mars opposition to your Dejanira that could have given you alarm bells."
So Mars-DEjanira is bad news, too?


" And did I not mention dangers of Scorpio Moon men with chart afflictions? He has a Scorpio Moon too with Pluto opp Saturn."
Yes.
Well, I did not know what gave me the alarm bells, but I still think it was good to listen to them, even if he was basically a good guy.

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DD
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posted July 30, 2010 01:26 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for DD     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
IQ,

do you see any serious red flags in this synastry?
Well, I did notice that his Saturn is squaring my Sun. Ouch.
But apart from that, anything that should make my "alarm bells ring"?


(What puzzles me about that guy is the complete ABSENCE of any alarm bells.)


EDIT:
I am also posting the natals, so the degrees become clearer:
maybe HE should be warned of me, seeing that my Nessus is conjunct his IC and opposing his Sun and Moon and squaring his Saturn.

mine:

his:

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zanarkand112
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posted July 31, 2010 02:00 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for zanarkand112     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thank you so much IQ. You are the first astrologer to ever give me a reading. I have been lurking here for over two and a half years, but didn't start posting until early this year.

I warned my mother about what is in her chart, and did some research on mine. I was aware of the conjunctions with the stars but wasn't aware that was star seed energy. I find the descriptions of them to be highly accurate for me.

BTW, I am her son not daughter. Easy mistake, I know. But that's what I meant when I talked about coming out to my dad, but for all you knew I could have been lesbian. lol! I don't know if this changes anything with your inheritance theories.

Speaking of that, I didn't check my dad's chart too in depth but there is something striking about our family. My Dad, Mom, brother, and me are all born smack dab on the cusp of each sun sun. We are all a combo of our Suns and we tend to have many traits of the following sign if born before the sign to come. A lot of friends, especially my closest, are right on the cusp(I'm talking a day -- two max-- or less away) as well.

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iQ
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posted July 31, 2010 03:09 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for iQ     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hi Zanarkand,
It is my privilege and duty to give readings to all who ask, depending on the time I have.
I am a passionate astrology advocate and treat is as a mathematical tool to analyze the purest initial conditions of the Human Mind when the Soul enters.

It is great that you are a guy, not too many guys open up to discussing astrology. We are out numbered about 100 to 1 LOL!!!

I have just finished watching the movie "Confessions of a Dangerous Mind", it clearly explains the CIA Mind Control that goes into honing a candidate for the task of being an assassin. The actor Rockwell gave a stunning performance of a conflicted psychopath. His TV Shows are very much sociopathic and anti-humanistic. He uses Psychopathy as an outlet to his Sociopathy!
And even this disturbed assassin is saved by true love. That is the secret message.
The next movie on the channel was "Truman Show", showing a Gnostic Theme of true love allowing a Soul to escape the prison of illusory virtual reality. Movie before that was "K-PAX", something that HAS to be seen by every new age buff.

So how do we fix Mr Nessus?

What if Mrs. Nessus awaits him on the other side of the river ? What if her love letters are scrawled on his boat? Would he even harbour thoughts of abuse on Dejanira?
What if Nessus was cuddled and coddled by an adopted father and mother [His real dad was a psycho and mom was a magical mare or something...]

What if parents of kids with afflicted charts give extra verbal, emotional and physical demonstrations of love, like keeping baby's cot in their own room? 10 hugs a day till age 10 than just one or none?

If Astrology is showing a psychological or vibrational victim problem, then human compassion can be the solution that negates every harsh aspect. Disturbed kids may develop alter states to escape trauma. What if they are counselled to develop imaginary parents loving them from a hypnotically regressed childhood upto present? All these ideas have to be considered.

The ending of K-Pax sees the Psychiatrist dad make up by starting to love his grown up son. It is never too late.


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