posted December 11, 2016 07:54 AM            

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Originally posted by Belage:
Do you have planets there?

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posted December 11, 2016 11:59 AM            

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Originally posted by Nine:
No, no. Scorpio is the undertaker, the one who buries the dead. Libra is judge (justice), jury, and executioner. Libra does the killing.

Aries is when the Sun STRINGS to life. Libra is where the Sun goes to die, or FALLS to his death. It is in Libra when the trees and other vegetation - die. Scorpio takes their listless/dead bodies into the underworld.

Libra is the opposition in astrology. A Satan is an adversary, or opponent in theology.

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Where are you finding this information? I can agree with you on Libra being the sign in which the sun sets, but never have I seen it be described as being the sign of death. Capricorn has been alinged with the Devil because of Saturn's past association with Satan, and Scorpio has always been represented as the sign of death. Even Isabel Hickey claims it to be "the death sign". If there is no factual basis in this then I will have to disagree with you here.

posted December 11, 2016 12:02 PM            

D:

posted December 11, 2016 02:01 PM            

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The Greek underworld, in mythology, is an otherworld where souls go after death, and is the original Greek idea of afterlife. At the moment of death the soul is separated from the corpse, taking on the shape of the former person, and is transported to the entrance of the Underworld.[1] The Underworld itself is described as being either at the outer bounds of the ocean or beneath the depths or ends of the earth.[2] It is considered the dark counterpart to the brightness of Mount Olympus, and is the kingdom of the dead that corresponds to the kingdom of the gods.[3] Hades is a realm invisible to the living, made solely for the dead.[4]

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Pluto (Greek: Πλούτων, Ploutōn) was the ruler of the underworld in classical mythology. The earlier name for the god was Hades, which became more common as the name of the underworld itself.

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Thus, Hades/Pluto/Scorpio rules the underworld. The Underworld is where you go AFTER death. When does death take place?

posted December 11, 2016 02:15 PM            

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and Scorpio has always been represented as the sign of death.

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Correct. Already dead things. Libra has dominion over the transition from life to death.

I was put on this path while researching death charts. Venus, strangely, kept popping up.

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Capricorn has been aligned with the Devil because of Saturn's past association with Satan...

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Correct. Saturn is also exalted in Libra.

posted December 11, 2016 02:20 PM            

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Originally posted by Nine:

Correct. Saturn is also exalted in Libra.

Food for thought: The birth of Christ takes place on the cusp of Capricorn.

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Interesting. Though it is important to note that the date of Christ's birth was selected as a day of celebration, but the origins are anything, but Biblical. The reason(s) for the choice are uncertain.

posted December 11, 2016 02:33 PM            

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Interesting. Though it is important to Note that the date of Christ's birth was selected as a day of celebration, but the origins are anything, but Biblical. The reason(s) for the choice are uncertain.

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posted December 12, 2016 07:38 AM            

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Originally posted by Nine:
No, no. Scorpio is the undertaker, the one who buries the dead. Libra is judge (justice), jury, and executioner. Libra does the killing.

Aries is when the Sun STRINGS to life. Libra is where the Sun goes to die, or FALLS to his death. It is in Libra when the trees and other vegetation - die. Scorpio takes their listless/dead bodies into the underworld.

Libra is the opposition in astrology. A Satan is an adversary, or opponent in theology.

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Scorpio IS the sign of death, not Libra.

Scorpio's namesake and symbol animal, the scorpion is a predatory animal known to carry a venom that it uses to kill others in hunting and self-defense, even itself. that's not an undertaker. Nobody fears undertakers. Most people and other animals fear scorpions and also snakes, another symbol for Scorpio.

Yes, Libra can inflict death, in fact, all signs can inflict death, all planets can inflict death, even and especially Jupiter. But libra's death usually comes through certain venereal (word derived from Venus) diseases, diseases acquired from intimate interractions with others. Also heartbreak can kill.

Yes, Libra can be the executioner, but as such, it was usually deserved. The blind scale of justice as represented by Libra goes both ways. If you do not deserve execution, you will be spared or exonerated. Libra is the sign that understand Karma best, that is why it is difficult to draw Librans into unjust wars.

In Vedic astrology, the 7th house is considered a death house because partners can inflict death on you. In Vedic, the 8th is also considered a death house.

As for Satan, it is debatable which house it rules. But opposition is not its principle. When properly understood in astrology, oppositions brings complementarity and balance. Alsays easier to deal with than squares.

The sun falls, but does not die in Libra. If it did, the journey would be complete and we would only have 7 or 8 signs.

Falling does not mean dying. Does Mercury die in Pisces? Does Venus die in Virgo? Does Jupiter die in Capricorn?
The sun of all things represents the part of ourself that does not die until our earthly lives end. It is the SUN, the planet that shines light on planet earth where we live.

posted December 12, 2016 10:20 AM            

I have a stellium in Libra - ASc., Pallas, Pluto, Saturn and Mars. And aside from being a bit introverted (read: unavailable for interaction), I will always support a friend in need.

However, I believe it is disempowering to lie to people and validate choices that are clearly causing them or others to suffer. You can empathise with their emotions without agreeing with their choices. Loyalty doesn't have to be blind.
Sure you can make someone feel better in the short-term by absolving them of any responsibility for their suffering, but long-term, you are colluding with them in maintaining the pain.

posted December 12, 2016 12:17 PM            

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Originally posted by Belage:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Nine:
[b] No, no. Scorpio is the undertaker, the one who buries the dead. Libra is judge (justice), jury, and executioner. Libra does the killing.

Aries is when the Sun STRINGS to life. Libra is where the Sun goes to die, or FALLS to his death. It is in Libra when the trees and other vegetation - die. Scorpio takes their listless/dead bodies into the underworld.

Libra is the opposition in astrology. A Satan is an adversary, or opponent in theology.

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Scorpio IS the sign of death, not Libra.

Scorpio's namesake and symbol animal, the scorpion is a predatory animal known to carry a venom that it uses to kill others in hunting and self-defense, even itself. that's not an undertaker. Nobody fears undertakers. Most people and other animals fear scorpions and also snakes, another symbol for Scorpio.

Yes, Libra can inflict death, in fact, all signs can inflict death, all planets can inflict death, even and especially Jupiter. But libra's death usually comes through certain venereal (word derived from Venus) diseases, diseases acquired from intimate interractions with others. Also heartbreak can kill.

Yes, Libra can be the executioner, but as such, it was usually deserved. The blind scale of justice as represented by Libra goes both ways. If you do not deserve execution, you will be spared or exonerated. Libra is the sign that understand Karma best, that is why it is difficult to draw Librans into unjust wars.

In Vedic astrology, the 7th house is considered a death house because partners can inflict death on you. In Vedic, the 8th is also considered a death house.

As for Satan, it is debatable which house it rules. But opposition is not its principle. When properly understood in astrology, oppositions brings complementarity and balance. Alsays easier to deal with than squares.

The sun falls, but does not die in Libra. If it did, the journey would be complete and we would only have 7 or 8 signs.

Falling does not mean dying. Does Mercury die in Pisces? Does Venus die in Virgo? Does Jupiter die in Capricorn?
The sun of all things represents the part of ourself that does not die until our earthly lives end. It is the SUN, the planet that shines light on planet earth where we live.

[/B][/QUOTE]

Great arguments.

"Libra is the sign that understands Karma best, that is why it is difficult to draw Librans into unjust wars."

posted December 12, 2016 06:21 PM            

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No.

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Yes!

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Scorpio IS the sign of death, not Libra.

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Scorpio is the sign of the DEAD. Libra is the sign of death, and dying.

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Scorpio's namesake and symbol animal, the scorpion is a predatory animal known to carry a venom that it uses to kill others in hunting and self-defense, even itself. that's not an undertaker. Nobody fears undertakers. Most people and other animals fear scorpions and also snakes, another symbol for Scorpio.

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Hades/Pluto are the undertakers. The 8th house is their dwelling place.

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Yes, Libra can inflict death, in fact, all signs can inflict death, all planets can inflict death, even and especially Jupiter. But libra's death usually comes through certain venereal (word derived from Venus) diseases, diseases acquired from intimate interractions with others. Also heartbreak can kill.

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??

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Yes, Libra can be the executioner, but as such, it was usually deserved.

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So then Libra is the sign of death. Here she's not only executioner, but also judge - "[death] was usually deserved"

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The blind scale of justice as represented by Libra goes both ways. If you do not deserve execution, you will be spared or exonerated. Libra is the sign that understand Karma best, that is why it is difficult to draw Librans into unjust wars.

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Libra is a cardinal sign after all, they do the leading. Or manipulating.

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In Vedic astrology, the 7th house is considered a death house...

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Interesting. In French an orgasm is called "a little death". The orgasm, as you know, is the ultimate pleasure experience. Venus, as you know, is the Goddess of pleasure. This further demonstrates the link between Venus/Libra/7H and death has been long established.

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As for Satan, it is debatable which house it rules.

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Satan means opponent or adversary. In astrology it is established that the 7th house rules opponents.

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The sun falls, but does not die in Libra. If it did, the journey would be complete and we would only have 7 or 8 signs.

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His journey above ground is complete. After Libra he enters Hades/Pluto/Scorpio/8H, where dead things go.

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Falling does not mean dying. Does Mercury die in Pisces? Does Venus die in Virgo? Does Jupiter die in Capricorn?

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It is the SUN, the planet that shines light on planet earth where we live.

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posted December 12, 2016 06:42 PM            

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However, I believe it is disempowering to lie to people and validate choices that are clearly causing them or others to suffer. You can empathise with their emotions without agreeing with their choices. Loyalty doesn't have to be blind.

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That's not the scenario in the OP.

There was a 23yo friendship. Half of that friendship was in an heated argument with a 3rd party. The other half of the friendship, a Libra, was heard telling the 3rd party - 'we're not friends'

That IS disloyal, phony, time wasting.

She spent 23 years in a person's life misrepresenting herself. She then let her true feelings known when that person was at their most vulnerable - this is called kicking 'em when they're down. Not only does this woman have a gulf with her mother, but she has to deal with the shock from her "friend" of 23 years.

As stated earlier, I've know Libras all my life. This behavior is par for the course. Kick 'em when they're down - with a smile.

posted December 12, 2016 07:01 PM            

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Originally posted by Nine:
That's not the scenario in the OP.

There was a 23yo friendship. Half of that friendship was in an heated argument with a 3rd party. The other half of the friendship, a Libra, was heard telling the 3rd party - 'we're not friends'

That IS disloyal, phony, time wasting.

She spent 23 years in a person's life misrepresenting herself. She then let her true feelings known when that person was at their most vulnerable - this is called kicking 'em when they're down. Not only does this woman have a gulf with her mother, but she has to deal with the shock from her "friend" of 23 years.

As stated earlier, I've know Libras all my life. This behavior is par for the course. Kick 'em when they're down - with a smile.

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I was just speaking my mind about general forms of disloyalty that I see. People for example saying "there, there, just carry on making the same mistakes", when there is a clear case for personal responsibility.

I wasn't referring to the OP's scenario in my post, I was speaking about how I experience Libra placements. The title makes an assertion that Libras aren't loyal - I spoke to this. Sorry I wasn't clear.

I totally agree that pretending to be a friend for 23 years is grossly disloyal, however, I can't generalise that to Libra placements when it is something I have never, and would never, do to anyone.

My mother is a triple Libra (Sun, Mercury, Mars) and she's had the same group of friends for 30-40-odd years. Only two times I remember her cutting a friend off. 1st time, the friend was having an affair with a married man and she felt unable to be in a friendship with someone who thought this was OK. 2nd time, her friend had been misusing alcohol and stole some from my mum that was a present (my mother drinks once a year at most).

I think personal responsibility and integrity are things that transcend the chart anyway.
It's like personality, people develop traits and tendencies, but free will trumps all.

posted December 13, 2016 12:33 AM            

quote:
Hades/Pluto are the undertakers. The 8th house is their dwelling place.
My thoughts: this undertaker stole Proserpina, the daugther of Ceres from her life above ground down to the underworld. Isn't what we call killing someone? Putting a live breathing person underground? Surely he could have found a wife among the many already dead girls in his kingdom. No, he had to leave the underworld to take one that was living and breathing above ground.

QUOTE:
So then Libra is the sign of death. Here she's not only executioner, but also judge - "[death] was usually deserved"
My thoughts: I guess you missed the part where I said that All signs and ALL planets can inflict death.

QUOTE:
Libra is a cardinal sign after all, they do the leading. Or manipulating.
My thoughts: Huh???

QUOTE:
Interesting. In French an orgasm is called "a little death". The orgasm, as you know, is the ultimate pleasure experience. Venus, as you know, is the Goddess of pleasure. This further demonstrates the link between Venus/Libra/7H and death has been long established.
My thoughts: Orgsams and "little deaths" falls under the 8th house, not 7th house. Basic astrological knowledge.

QUOTE:
Satan means opponent or adversary. In astrology it is established that the 7th house rules opponents.
My thoughts: In astrology, it is established that The 7th house rules OPEN opponents. However, the most dangerous opponents are those that you do not see, those that are not in the open. I would think Satan would fit that bill.

quote:
His journey above ground is complete. After Libra he enters Hades/Pluto/Scorpio/8H, where dead things go.
My thoughts: The journey from Aries to Virgo is not the journey above ground as you put it. In fact, in our western charts, this journey happens figuratively in the lowest part of the chart, below the horizon. Aries through Virgo is the journey of the soul as it focuses on ITSELF, on its inner development. Virgo's place is interesting as it comes right after the grandiosity of Leo. By the time the soul reaches Virgo, it is ready to learn humility and service. THen the soul enters libra where it learn more fully to focus on others instead of itself. All the other signs following are also concerned with society as a whole and their places and contributions in it.

Death happens in Scorpio more so than in Libra. Anyone who had Pluto (the ruler of scorpio) conjuncting a personal planet will attest to the numerous death processes they go through.

posted December 13, 2016 06:09 AM            

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Originally posted by CosmiqPhuz:
Ok, so all Libras are bad people, Libra is the sign of death and Satan, and any placement in Libra is a red flag for friendship/relationship/any kind of association.

Would you care to share more of your astrological wisdom, Nine? Please teach me more.

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posted December 13, 2016 08:33 AM            

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Originally posted by CosmiqPhuz:
Ok, so all Libras are bad people, Libra is the sign of death and Satan, and any placement in Libra is a red flag for friendship/relationship/any kind of association.

Would you care to share more of your astrological wisdom, Nine? Please teach me more.

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posted December 13, 2016 08:50 AM            

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Ok, so all Libras are bad people...

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Nah, just saying Libras are the archetypal Fair-Weather friends. The more you know the less likely you are to get hurt when they express themselves.

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Libra is the sign of death and Satan...

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Correct. In the cycle of the Sun, it is in Libra where the Sun transitions from life to death. In the Cycle of the Sun, the Libra stage is the death stage. I believe it has something to do with maintaining harmonic balance. If everyone was allowed to go all at once, there would be chaos. Thus, something has to die off so another thing can have a chance. It so happens that in the Cycle of the Sun the dying occurs in the Libra phase.

A literal translation of Satan is adversary, or opponent. Libra is the sign of open opposition. Further, Lucifer is actually Venus. At some point in time he was renamed and recast. Libra's ruling planet is the legendary Lucifer.

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...and any placement in Libra is a red flag for friendship/relationship/any kind of association...

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Well, the OP said Libra, and I also said Libra. Don't know where you get the idea that any placement in Libra is a red flag. Hey, if it's your belief that Sun in Libra is the same as having any other planet in Libra, believe what you want. I don't subscribe.

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Would you care to share more of your astrological wisdom, Nine? Please teach me more.

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posted December 13, 2016 09:43 AM            

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i know in vedic astrology they view and interpret Libra/7th house as a death sign. Not sure if they share the same view in western astrology? hmm.

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Thank you for this.

Don't mean to pop too many bubbles but according to Robert Hand, Vedic Astrology appears to be based largely on Ancient Greek astrology. So this view of Libra/7H & death has roots in the West.

posted December 13, 2016 02:12 PM            

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Originally posted by Belage:
When I hear people insisting that Libra is Satan, it makes me wonder what's going on in their natal chart to make them see Libra that way.

Personal bias against signs are always rooted in one's personal chart. Know Thyself, before you can know others.

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of course there is always a bias. everybody draws on their own personal experiences. the person who comes to the Libra defense also is biased.

about my own chart,
I only have the IC in Libra and I only ever know 3 libra (suns). one is an uncle who has cheated on my aunt. another is my cousin's wife who never stops flirting with even married men. she forced my cousin into marriage but does drive him mad at times (he's a scorpio sun). she's actually very attractive and I think she kind of can't help herself. another was a friend I happen to love and she got married a couple of years ago in early 20s and moved into another country, so I don't know her story. she was a very strange libra. I was like her only friend for a couple of years, but then she suddenly cut me off after her marriage.

I overall think that Libras beside never being 100% dedicated, check out every body, even if they're married. on the outside it looks as if they can't help themselves.

my opinion will change of course if I meet another couple of Libras who behave otherwise.