posted April 03, 2013 02:55 AM            

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Originally posted by aquaguy91:
No loving deed goes wasted.
[Quote]
if only that were true.

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posted April 03, 2013 02:58 AM            

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Originally posted by T:
....just realized how much you are like the "little brother of LL". LOL

Someday you will think back on us all and how much we helped you / how right we were. And appreciate all the sometimes harsh advice.

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posted April 03, 2013 03:00 AM            

right over your head!

(who do i sound like?)

posted April 03, 2013 03:09 AM            

do we throw our hands up at this point?

posted April 03, 2013 04:48 AM            

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Originally posted by katatonic:
aquaguy, have you noticed that there are more women than men in the world? and that even now it takes "concentrating on getting more women into" areas dominated by men to even out the numbers in those classes? maybe THAT is why, not overbearing feminism but an attempt to make a more realistic balance in school, as in life?

you are right that poor men are relatively less powerful than rich men, but maybe you have come across, say, the musical/movie Oliver!...about dickensian england and the underclasses...and noticed that "little men" tend to lord it over their women more than "big, rich men"? the more powerful a man is, the less he feels he has to "be above" others, especially his female partners and associates. not talking about the kind of money-power stuff that some men use to prop up their egos, but real, internal power, which is just as available to poor men as rich ones...

but i haven't noticed that anyone gains any power by resenting that of others

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posted April 03, 2013 04:50 AM            

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Originally posted by katatonic:
back on topic..

as to the use of the C word, in england it is more often used to disparage MEN than women. the D word(or P word or the OTHER C word) or whatever male-part word people are talking about...is also used AT men. funny that...

i have always found it strange that the F word is used to express anger or frustration. you would think it would be a "pleasure" word, wouldn't you?

but personally, i just find it gets boring - especially in writing - when people don't exercise their vocabulary skills and make use of the amazing wealth of expression available to them, but rely on "bad language" and other overworked phrases that don't lend any colour to the conversation..

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posted April 03, 2013 09:28 AM            

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Our dear AG here once called someone a feminazi. Hi ho ladies this guy will love and respect you forever as long as you are against feminism aka the battle for your rights!

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What? I find that hard to believe.

I have to say, I haven't finished reading this thread, but Aquaguy does have a point. I see it a little differently than he does, but it's there nonetheless. I have myself pointed out the sexism against men many times in my life.

It was asked which rights do men have that women don't, and the answer was none.

What strikes me sometimes is all of the gender-specific services and products there are, and how most of them are geared towards women. I don't know that men are so intensely concerned with the promotion of their gender to the exclusion of the opposite gender.

posted April 03, 2013 10:00 AM            

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AcousticGod: What? I find that hard to believe.

I have to say, I haven't finished reading this thread, but Aquaguy does have a point. I see it a little differently than he does, but it's there nonetheless. I have myself pointed out the sexism against men many times in my life.

It was asked which rights do men have that women don't, and the answer was none.

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Believe or not, it's out there my luv. I'm not going to go find it, but it's floating around lmfao!

I didn't jump on aquaguy for his point, and he does have one, it was when he was stating his opposition to feminism that I countered. For feminism!

And T provided an answer, which I backed. Or did you not read up to that part either? Believe me, if he asked something of me, I would provide an answer either directly or by approving of someone else's. Libra Mercury! I like to keep things righted.

posted April 03, 2013 10:05 AM            

But there's still a huge amount of sexism out there.
Ask any woman who works in the tech industry.

Incompetence is assumed (again, not explicity, but softly) and your male colleagues are *amazed* when you can actually do your job - sort of like being a good female gamer back in the day.
Especially if you're even somewhat attractive.

Ex: When I went to one of first conference/shows by without my colleagues, I naively had them print out a name tag with only my name and organization.
I walked around for a bit, asked a few questions, tried to engage in some conversations, and got *no* traction.
It amazed me.
I knew what I was talking about, but was completely ignored.

My husband actually came along on this one (Ok, I was "without my colleagues" because I took the day off to hit this conference and then a Cuban place nearby ), but initially broke off to go pursue his slightly different interests. He caught up with me (but stood back) in time to see it happen twice it quick succession.
I asked, "This isn't just me being over sensitive, right?" "No - all of these guys are completely brushing you off."

So, I went back and had a new tag printed out that included my alphabet soup of certs.
The older woman who did it gave me a knowing smile when I asked.
Note: None of the men I saw had their certs listed...I'm guessing because it's assumed that if they were *there* they should be there and listing certs is kind of pretentious bs.

For me, though, the difference was night and day.
Suddenly, I was the only person the reps talked to.
I had breasts *and* knew how to do my job!
Amazing!

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This isn't the only time something like this (or more insulting outright disregard and dismissal - almost always, in fairness, by older men who'd never worked with me) has happened, but it sticks with me the most because it was the first really blatant example.

posted April 03, 2013 11:43 AM            

i was simply stating that men have grievances too. show me acts of misogny and discrimination against women and i can point out discrimination against men. it goes both ways.

posted April 03, 2013 11:50 AM            

you have clearly not been paying attention to past threads. That might be why our answers came off the way they did. We know more history with our little ag than you do.

That's all can say. If you havent been keeping up with threads for a long time, then you might not know where some of these replies come from.

I know both of you well enough to know that ..... there is no bad advice you could give him.

....and that he'd take it better coming from someone like you ( a male ) before any of us.

posted April 03, 2013 12:07 PM            

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you have clearly not been paying attention to past threads. That might be why our answers came off the way they did. We know more history with our little ag than you do.

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That's entirely possible. My bad.
EDIT: Actually, I shouldn't say "it's possible." It's totally correct that I have no frame of reference for aquaguy. I've not read his responses to things previously.

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It just doestn seem appropriate to address another with those letters........capatalized anyway.

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posted April 03, 2013 12:20 PM            

We know how prevalent sexual discrimination is, and, sadly, we can't really count on a lot of boys to comprehend this.

Yes, we have equal legal rights, and that's great. However, this does not mean sexism and sexual discrimination do not exist. India also has equal rights by law, and look how women are treated there. It's about changing societal mentality. If you think being granted legal rights means the end of discrimination, you are sadly wrong, and very, VERY naive.

Here's a great article I found about the rape case in Steubenville:

"A beautiful woman walks down Shattuck at night in a skintight red dress and black jacket. Her high heels click against the pavement when, out of nowhere, she is attacked by a rapist. Was she asking for it?

A 16-year-old high school girl from Steubenville, Ohio, drinks at a party. She starts to feel sick and passes out. Two football players use this as an opportunity to drag her unconscious body from one party to another. They rape her, urinate on her and live-tweet the whole thing while their friends watch and laugh. Please tell me, was that girl asking for it?

A former Steubenville NAACP leader thinks she was, calling the victim “drunk and willing.” Women are constantly scrutinized and blamed for violent crimes that are committed against them because of their clothing, their personal choices and their alcohol consumption. Society teaches us: Don’t lie, don’t cheat, don’t steal, don’t murder. But when it comes to rape, the message is clear: Don’t get raped. Rape is an act whose responsibility, time after time, falls on its victims, not on its perpetrators.

We have to wonder why. Is it the media, which unfortunately uses the female form as an object? Turn on the TV, and look at how many half-naked, writhing women you find in commercials for cars, for beer, for food. The media tells us we can have the woman just as easily as we can the new bacon double cheeseburger. It’s all there for the taking.

Women can’t win in this world. There seem to be only two positions open to us. The first is the role media creates, in which women exist only for the pleasure of men, to be walking, talking sex dolls who never say “no.” If we reject this objectified role and demand to be treated as people, with freedom to choose what we wear and sleep with whom we like, we get labeled as cockteases and ****** .

******Female liberation exists only within the confines of patriarchy.*******

All of our choices, then, become tied to sex. What we wear, what we drink, whom we smile at are all just open invitations for men to exercise their physical dominance over us. I wish I didn’t have to say “men” and “women.” It saddens me that rape is also a gender issue. Yes, female rapists and male rape victims exist, but the majority of rapes involve a male aggressor and a female victim. It is disempowering for us all that women are portrayed as wanting to be maimed sexually and that men are portrayed as insatiable beasts, incapable of rational thinking and unable to control their sexual desire.

I’m sorry to the man outside of BART who tried to start a conversation with me. It was late, and what I gave you in return was no eye contact, no “hello” back. My fingers tightened around the pepper spray in my pocket. I’m sorry to the men who have good intentions but are treated like criminals simply because they’re male. That’s not fair.

But it will continue to happen. I will keep ignoring any man who talks to me late at night. I can’t be the nice person who I am when one in four women will be victims of rape or attempted rape by the time she leaves college. I can’t help but be on guard when I know that 50 percent of rape victims who come forward are accused of lying. I will not feel safe in a country in which the media mourns the damaged football careers of two rapists and not the poor 16-year-old girl whose life they ruined. I can’t sit back and relax when only 3 percent of all rapists end up in jail. I am a woman, and let me be honest: I am terrified.

My fear grew when I found a website called avoiceformen.com, a self-proclaimed anti-feminist website that runs articles whose topics include why women are the only ones who can stop rape and how women actually enjoy being raped. Part of their sick, twisted logic is that women often like rough sex and that some have rape fantasies, so rape is OK and should be encouraged.

Let me make myself very clear. Enjoying rough sex is not asking to be raped. Even having rape fantasies is not asking to be raped. There is a monumental difference between playing out a fantasy with a sexual partner you trust and feel safe with and being forced to have sex against your will. Making excuses for rape does nothing but perpetuate rape culture and encourage rapists.

posted April 03, 2013 01:47 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by aquaguy91:
well one thing i have a big problem with is how women are outnumbering men significantly when it
comes to enrollment numbers in college and instead of focusing on getting more guys into college or trying to figure out why guys arent going to school in the first place we are focusing on getting more women
into the only majors where men are outnumbering
women. thats a big problem in my opinion. also you just illustrated another reason why I have big time problems with feminism. Any man who has any disagreements with women or feminism is automatically labeled a misogynist, that is also a big problem.

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There are many statistical reasons for why this is:

"
Another aspect in the reversal of the college gender gap, rather than just its elimination, is the persistence of behavioral and developmental differences between males and females. Boys often mature more slowly than girls. In grades K-12, boys tend to have a higher incidence of behavioral problems (or lower level of non-cognitive skills) than girls. Girls spend more time doing homework than boys. These behavioral factors, after adjusting for family background, test scores, and high school achievement, can explain virtually the entire female advantage in getting into college for the high school graduating class of 1992, the authors figure. It allowed "girls to leapfrog over boys in the race to college." Similarly, teenage boys, both in the early 1980s and late 1990s, had a higher (self-reported) incidence of arrests and school suspensions than teenage girls."
http://www.nber.org/digest/jan07/w12139.html

"Girls have long gotten better grades than boys in all levels of school. But while at one time few women used those academic skills to get degrees, new research suggests that growing incentives are helping draw women to college in record numbers.

That helps explain why, since 1982, women have outpaced men in college graduation rates. In 2004, women received 58 percent of all bachelor's degrees in the United States, compared to only 35 percent in 1960.

“What has changed is that more women are now using their longstanding academic advantages and translating them into college degrees,” said Claudia Buchmann, co-author of the studies and associate professor of sociology at Ohio State University.

“In the 1960s and 70s, girls were getting better grades, but many young women were not going to college, or they were dropping out of college to get married. Now the benefits of a college education are growing faster for women than they are for men, and women are taking advantage.

”The researchers found that girls did better academically than boys in both 8th grade and in high school. Still, boys were just as likely as girls to enroll in a four-year college (52 percent of girls in the sample, compared to 51 percent of boys). But women were significantly more likely to graduate. Overall, 63 percent of women who enrolled in four-year colleges graduated, compared to 55 percent of men."

"“Women are more likely to graduate from college in large part because of their superior academic performance while in college,” she said."
http://researchnews.osu.edu/archive/womcolge.htm

HOWEVER,

"An article in the Wall Street Journal recently stated: “Women now graduate from college in greater numbers than men and enter the workforce at similar rates. Yet at every career stage, men are more likely to advance than women.”"

Barton further explained that at the entry-level, 53 percent of new hires are women. However, their participation rate steadily decrease as one ascends the corporate ladder -- 37 percent in lower-middle management; 28 percent at the vice-presidency level; then only 14 percent at the executive committee; then finally only a pitiful 3 percent at the highest echelons of corporate America.

"According to The Chronicle for Higher Education, certain majors in university remain dominated by men (despite the steadily declining overall rate of male enrollment). For example, for the 2007-2008 academic year, women earned only 17 percent of all bachelor's degrees awarded in engineering and engineering technologies. For computer and information sciences, women earned only 18 percent of bachelor's degrees.

In addition, perhaps the demands of motherhood may also negatively impact the presence of women at the highest rungs of corporations."
http://www.ibtimes.com/why-are-more-women-men-going-college-213255

posted April 03, 2013 04:04 PM            

For the record i thinl your swedish "fe minists" are among those qho step over the line, but it doesn't compare to the very recent past when women were considered Property. In england they still practice Primogeniture by law - the entire estate of the family passes from FATHER TO FIRSTBORN SON...noy, firstborn, a girl will have to rely on her little brpther's generosity unless dad makes a will otherwise. And that is england where they have had three queens...go to other countries and see if your girlfriend can travel slone without putting herself in danger...

posted April 03, 2013 04:56 PM            

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T: ...from someone like you ( a male )...

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